SYNTHETIC OR REGULAR OIL? TELL ME - Page 2 - Toyota Yaris Forums

1stToyota · 06-08-2010, 08:53 AM

I'll be sending in my oil sample to the labs for a UOA, probably this week or next. Using M1 0w30 right now. Anxious to see how well their additive package held up for the 5k miles. Just guessing, but if it was conventional oil the TBN would probably show that the additive package was pushed to its limit.

Yaris Hilton · 06-08-2010, 10:26 AM

No, I don't think 5K miles under normal driving conditions will "push to the limit" any properly spec'd conventional oil either.

1stToyota · 06-08-2010, 10:40 AM

If I wasn't clear I was referring to the conventional oil being pushed by the 5k mark, and when Amsoil rates their XL series oil at only a 7,500 mile oci I'm still figuring that most conventional oils [their additive packages] will be feeling pretty tired at 5k, but not so with synthetic. Blackstone will let me know with their TBN for the M1 and recommend a better guideline for what OCI is best for it.

Yaris Hilton · 06-08-2010, 10:55 AM

I understood quite well, and that's what I'm arguing against. The 5K change interval is a conservative one. I'm NOT suggesting extending it. But I think it's silly to suggest that the base number analysis would suggest that the additive package of a GF-4 conventional oil would be nearly exhausted at 5K miles, but not in the synthetic. Base number analysis only indicates how much acid (mostly produced in combustion) has been neutralized by the basic additives in the oil. This kind of quasi-scientific talk really doesn't tell us that the engine is going to run better or last longer with an oil having better numbers, anyway.

1stToyota · 06-08-2010, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yaris Hilton

I understood quite well, and that's what I'm arguing against. The 5K change interval is a conservative one. I'm NOT suggesting extending it. But I think it's silly to suggest that the base number analysis would suggest that the additive package of a GF-4 conventional oil would be nearly exhausted at 5K miles, but not in the synthetic. Base number analysis only indicates how much acid (mostly produced in combustion) has been neutralized by the basic additives in the oil. This kind of quasi-scientific talk really doesn't tell us that the engine is going to run better or last longer with an oil having better numbers, anyway.

Common sense would indicate that numbers that are suckier won't be as good for the motor.

And since you're eager to argue I'll be sure to be the one that backs up my feelings with UOAs on the M1 vs a premium GF-4 conventional oil. Yes, I'll pay the $10 extra bucks on each UOA to have the TBN that tests what's left of the additive packages. If I found out that Blackstone tells me to push that conventional oil another several thousand miles because it's still fresh as a daisy you'll be first to know.

Yaris Hilton · 06-08-2010, 11:50 PM

Fine. If you're doing oil analyses you have some basis for determining when the oil really needs changing. Doesn't make economic sense to me, but it's better than going by oil company ad claims.

1stToyota · 06-09-2010, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yaris Hilton

Fine. If you're doing oil analyses you have some basis for determining when the oil really needs changing. Doesn't make economic sense to me, but it's better than going by oil company ad claims.

Doesn't make economic sense to me either because I'll probably always stick to a 5k OCI, using synthetic oil, but I guess it's worth it to run conventional oil once to see how it and its additive package holds up against a popular synthetic. However, it would be well worth it to the owner that wants to run synthetic and base their OCI on what the lab's TBN showed in a UOA.

Yaris Hilton · 06-09-2010, 12:10 PM

Whatever. I've been in an argumentive, cranky, vile, generally SOBish mood the last few days, and apologize if I've been offensive. But practically, I think good enough is good enough, and will stick with the factory recommendations.

127.0.0.1 · 06-09-2010, 02:19 PM

I don't use any oil at all. I use water. the need for oil is a big scam by the government to
oppress and keep you down. water works better anyway and it is free.

127.0.0.1 · 06-09-2010, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yaris Hilton

Whatever. I've been in an argumentive, cranky, vile, generally SOBish mood the last few days, and apologize if I've been offensive. But practically, I think good enough is good enough, and will stick with the factory recommendations.

LOL is every 'oil' thread on the internet it is 99% what you describe above

the only people who need to do oil analysis are:

racers
anyone who modifies the engine in some way
engine designers

and then those who do it because they feel it fills
some emptiness inside themselves knowing yet some more useless data
about something they own

STC · 06-09-2010, 03:16 PM

My Yaris is almost six months old with 4,700mi. I'm using 5w-30 dealership regular oil and filter! I don't even know what brand oil and filter the dealership uses???

I live off the Allegheny Plateau in Central PA so regular 5w oil should be sufficient for the PA Winters.

If I plan to change to full synthetic it would probably be over 30,000 miles. Mainly, I'm sticking to conventional oil because of price. Also, I'm an easy driver.

I'm making double and triple payments to knock it (payments) down to under 2 years, so I don't have to pay as much interest to the criminal oligarchy of wealth and privilege... the BANKERS...

I just can't afford synthetic oil right now...

Cheers!

Hershey · 06-09-2010, 04:01 PM

I think TOYO oil is MOBIL Clean . Not 100 % sure .

1stToyota · 06-09-2010, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1

LOL is every 'oil' thread on the internet it is 99% what you describe above

the only people who need to do oil analysis are:

racers
anyone who modifies the engine in some way
engine designers

and then those who do it because they feel it fills
some emptiness inside themselves knowing yet some more useless data
about something they own

Yeah, you're so right. Guilty as charged. I just caught myself feeling so down and empty after committing myself to a $35.00 UOA on this 0w30 M1 I decided to pick myself back up about 10 minutes ago and put a deposit down on a 4000 sq ft shop; just sold my 6 bay shop and should be out of it June 15th. It's so unfair.

sickpuppy1 · 06-09-2010, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSilkySmooth

If Castrol Syntec is not real synthetic

what is in their Synblend?! Castrol is BP. Do you want to give British Petroleum your continued business?

I'm not arguing synth vs conventional in that statement, but rather that I feel a good filter would do better at longevity rather than oil, given a good change interval with either one. But as far as the statement about castrol being own by bp. I guess you wont use valvoline, quaker state either? since they are owned by Shell, which is based in the Netherlands and main offices in Great Britain!
And of course no Mobil 1 since they are actually ExxonMobil, you know, the Exxon Valdez debacle.
Pretty much all the oil giants are scum and get away with anything they can. I base my purchase of oil and filters off whats good for my car.

TheSilkySmooth · 06-09-2010, 06:29 PM

I didnt mean to direct the syn oil comment at you personally. Just general info. Valvoline is not owned by BP but Ashland, But, Yes: Shell, QS and Pennzoil are owned by Royal Dutch Shell; My wife is Dutch - so she is OK with that ;) but she wont allow me to do her OC's with EXxon-Mobil due to the Valdez incident

Me, I use the bigger WIX on my Yaris too (the one for the Camry) its about a 1/4"-1/2 longer and it works very well on the Yaris - much better than the dealer Thailand made Denso which is NOT ANYTHING like the Japon Denso filter that came on the car which was a thick foam material media not "paper". Anyone know if the Mann w610-3 cross references to our car or a subaru?

sickpuppy1 · 06-09-2010, 08:17 PM

Now thats good to know about the wix filter! The four banger Camry I assume?
The Mann filter for the 1.5 Yaris is the ML 1009 and most all Subaru's use ML1014

Hershey · 06-09-2010, 11:51 PM

if you call CASTROL to get how much the ratio of synthetic to conventional oil is in their syn-blend the techs say that info is not available . What's the big secret ? Maybe that there's no synthetic in their blend . If you ask tech for S.O.P.U.S. ( PENNZOIL , SHELL , QUAKER STATE ) or CONOCO PHILLIPS ( KENDALL , 76 , PHILLIPS 66 , MOTORCRAFT (?) ) they'll give you the ratio for their syn-blends with no problem . Was told the S.U.V. Blend ( now GOLD ) from PENNZOIL is 30% synthetic and the MOTORCRAFT or KENDALL are 40% as told by their techs .

TheSilkySmooth · 06-10-2010, 12:16 PM

I found Korean MSDS require full component disclosure and USA do not, so if you can search a MFG website for Korean MSDS (in your native language) you should see the syn %. Most all Major US 5w-30 FULL SYNTHETIC have less than 10% syn in them !!! Figure that BS out.

06-08-2010, 08:53 AM	#19
1stToyota Drives: 2013 Chevy Spark 1LT 5-speed Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,185	I'll be sending in my oil sample to the labs for a UOA, probably this week or next. Using M1 0w30 right now. Anxious to see how well their additive package held up for the 5k miles. Just guessing, but if it was conventional oil the TBN would probably show that the additive package was pushed to its limit. __________________ 1997 Lincoln Town Car - *SOLD* 2008 Scion xD (w/ automatic) - SOLD 2008 Yaris HB - SOLD

06-08-2010, 10:40 AM	#21
1stToyota Drives: 2013 Chevy Spark 1LT 5-speed Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,185	If I wasn't clear I was referring to the conventional oil being pushed by the 5k mark, and when Amsoil rates their XL series oil at only a 7,500 mile oci I'm still figuring that most conventional oils [their additive packages] will be feeling pretty tired at 5k, but not so with synthetic. Blackstone will let me know with their TBN for the M1 and recommend a better guideline for what OCI is best for it. __________________ 1997 Lincoln Town Car - *SOLD* 2008 Scion xD (w/ automatic) - SOLD 2008 Yaris HB - SOLD

06-09-2010, 03:16 PM	#29
STC "LibertyRides!" View User's Garage Drives: 2010 Yaris 3Dr LB \| 2020 Stang Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: State College, PA, USA Posts: 576	My Yaris is almost six months old with 4,700mi. I'm using 5w-30 dealership regular oil and filter! I don't even know what brand oil and filter the dealership uses??? I live off the Allegheny Plateau in Central PA so regular 5w oil should be sufficient for the PA Winters. If I plan to change to full synthetic it would probably be over 30,000 miles. Mainly, I'm sticking to conventional oil because of price. Also, I'm an easy driver. I'm making double and triple payments to knock it (payments) down to under 2 years, so I don't have to pay as much interest to the criminal oligarchy of wealth and privilege... the BANKERS... I just can't afford synthetic oil right now... Cheers! __________________ ~ Mark ~ 2010 Yaris 3-Dr Liftback, 5-Speed Manual, P185/60R 15, Bayou Blue Pearl I Love my YARIS - (Click below to see Gaslog): Most miles Tank: 538 tank/10.148 gal = 53.015 MPG / Most MPG: 54.95 MPG (ethanol) 425 tank/7.73 gal "The evils of government are directly proportional to the tolerance of the people." -- Frank Kent

06-09-2010, 08:17 PM	#34
sickpuppy1 Drives: 2010 Yaris Sedan Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Kansas Posts: 871	Now thats good to know about the wix filter! The four banger Camry I assume? The Mann filter for the 1.5 Yaris is the ML 1009 and most all Subaru's use ML1014 __________________

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06-08-2010, 10:26 AM	#20
Yaris Hilton Half a Bubble Off Plumb Drives: 2009 Yaris Sedan Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Bristol, Tennessee, USA Posts: 1,593	No, I don't think 5K miles under normal driving conditions will "push to the limit" any properly spec'd conventional oil either.

06-08-2010, 10:55 AM	#22
Yaris Hilton Half a Bubble Off Plumb Drives: 2009 Yaris Sedan Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Bristol, Tennessee, USA Posts: 1,593	I understood quite well, and that's what I'm arguing against. The 5K change interval is a conservative one. I'm NOT suggesting extending it. But I think it's silly to suggest that the base number analysis would suggest that the additive package of a GF-4 conventional oil would be nearly exhausted at 5K miles, but not in the synthetic. Base number analysis only indicates how much acid (mostly produced in combustion) has been neutralized by the basic additives in the oil. This kind of quasi-scientific talk really doesn't tell us that the engine is going to run better or last longer with an oil having better numbers, anyway.

06-08-2010, 11:50 PM	#24
Yaris Hilton Half a Bubble Off Plumb Drives: 2009 Yaris Sedan Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Bristol, Tennessee, USA Posts: 1,593	Fine. If you're doing oil analyses you have some basis for determining when the oil really needs changing. Doesn't make economic sense to me, but it's better than going by oil company ad claims.

06-09-2010, 12:10 PM	#26
Yaris Hilton Half a Bubble Off Plumb Drives: 2009 Yaris Sedan Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Bristol, Tennessee, USA Posts: 1,593	Whatever. I've been in an argumentive, cranky, vile, generally SOBish mood the last few days, and apologize if I've been offensive. But practically, I think good enough is good enough, and will stick with the factory recommendations.

06-09-2010, 02:19 PM	#27
127.0.0.1 Banned Drives: '10 Yaris5drHB+99 4runner LTD Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: NE Posts: 672	I don't use any oil at all. I use water. the need for oil is a big scam by the government to oppress and keep you down. water works better anyway and it is free.

06-09-2010, 04:01 PM	#30
Hershey Drives: 08 Yaris sedan auto / Fit auto Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: northeast Posts: 2,897	I think TOYO oil is MOBIL Clean . Not 100 % sure .

06-09-2010, 06:29 PM	#33
TheSilkySmooth Drives: 08 3DR 5M Bayou Blue; 09 Fos Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 622	I didnt mean to direct the syn oil comment at you personally. Just general info. Valvoline is not owned by BP but Ashland, But, Yes: Shell, QS and Pennzoil are owned by Royal Dutch Shell; My wife is Dutch - so she is OK with that ;) but she wont allow me to do her OC's with EXxon-Mobil due to the Valdez incident Me, I use the bigger WIX on my Yaris too (the one for the Camry) its about a 1/4"-1/2 longer and it works very well on the Yaris - much better than the dealer Thailand made Denso which is NOT ANYTHING like the Japon Denso filter that came on the car which was a thick foam material media not "paper". Anyone know if the Mann w610-3 cross references to our car or a subaru?

06-09-2010, 11:51 PM	#35
Hershey Drives: 08 Yaris sedan auto / Fit auto Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: northeast Posts: 2,897	if you call CASTROL to get how much the ratio of synthetic to conventional oil is in their syn-blend the techs say that info is not available . What's the big secret ? Maybe that there's no synthetic in their blend . If you ask tech for S.O.P.U.S. ( PENNZOIL , SHELL , QUAKER STATE ) or CONOCO PHILLIPS ( KENDALL , 76 , PHILLIPS 66 , MOTORCRAFT (?) ) they'll give you the ratio for their syn-blends with no problem . Was told the S.U.V. Blend ( now GOLD ) from PENNZOIL is 30% synthetic and the MOTORCRAFT or KENDALL are 40% as told by their techs .

06-10-2010, 12:16 PM	#36
TheSilkySmooth Drives: 08 3DR 5M Bayou Blue; 09 Fos Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 622	I found Korean MSDS require full component disclosure and USA do not, so if you can search a MFG website for Korean MSDS (in your native language) you should see the syn %. Most all Major US 5w-30 FULL SYNTHETIC have less than 10% syn in them !!! Figure that BS out.