2009 Yaris starting issue -need help

[cudchew]

Hi, I have a 2009 Yaris with automatic and about 15k miles. It just started having starting problems this week. When I got off work Friday, the engine wouldn't start, I thought the battery is done, so I got a jump and the engine started. The next day I changed the battery, but after letting the car sit for 4 hours, the car would not start again. Since I had a new battery, I just kept cranking the engine and pumped the gas pedal a few times, and the engine sputtered but managed to start. Once it starts, I can shut off the engine and restart it no problem.

I took it to the dealer and told them that the car has problem starting when sitting more than 4 hours. They kept the car overnight and said they didn't have any problem starting the engine in the morning, and they couldn't diagnose any problems, so it was a waste of time. I thought maybe they reset something during the diagnostics and the problem went away. I was wrong.

Today, after work (car's been sitting 8 hours), it would not start again. I did the trick of keep cranking the engine and pumping the gas pedal for 30 seconds, and managed to get it started again.

So I'm at a loss. The car runs fine once started, so I don't think it's any mechanical problem. Since I just changed the battery I don't think it's an electrical problem.

Any help with this one is greatly appreciated.

[ilikerice]

Is it still under warranty?

If it is, next time it happens, call toyota dealer. Tell them to come pick it up on a flatbed. Then show them the problem. Ask for a loaner while your at it. Tell them to keep it until they can duplicate the problem.

I know this isnt the answer to your question, but hard to say exactly what it is. All we can do is throw suggestions. You cant really test anything unless its acting up at the time, then you can do a check on things, (spark, fuel, compression). Could be a low voltage to the fuel pump, bad ground somewhere or a bad fuel pump from the factory. Thats my first guess. Could be something else too.

If its under warranty still, I would raise hell and make them duplicate it and fix it.

[CTScott]

The fact that it takes some serious cranking to start it makes me think that it is fuel system related and the fact that it is able to crank for 30 seconds says that the second battery is good. Perhaps you got a bad tank of gas and there is either a lot of water or particulate in the tank that is clogging up the fuel filter (which is in the tank).

[localkineguy]

how healthy is it cranking? Maybe you have a bad alternator and/or an electrical short somewhere that's draining your battery as it sits.
Check the battery's voltage with the car off...check it again when the car is running and post the voltage values. You're looking for something in the neighborhood of 12V when off and 14V when the car is running.

[cudchew]

Originally Posted by ilikerice

Is it still under warranty?

If it is, next time it happens, call toyota dealer. Tell them to come pick it up on a flatbed. Then show them the problem. Ask for a loaner while your at it. Tell them to keep it until they can duplicate the problem.

I know this isnt the answer to your question, but hard to say exactly what it is. All we can do is throw suggestions. You cant really test anything unless its acting up at the time, then you can do a check on things, (spark, fuel, compression). Could be a low voltage to the fuel pump, bad ground somewhere or a bad fuel pump from the factory. Thats my first guess. Could be something else too.

If its under warranty still, I would raise hell and make them duplicate it and fix it.

My car is still under warranty, but I don't think it covers towing or loaner car. All the ToyotaCare benefits started after the I bought my Yaris.

[cudchew]

Originally Posted by CTScott

The fact that it takes some serious cranking to start it makes me think that it is fuel system related and the fact that it is able to crank for 30 seconds says that the second battery is good. Perhaps you got a bad tank of gas and there is either a lot of water or particulate in the tank that is clogging up the fuel filter (which is in the tank).

If it was a bad tank of gas that caused the starting problem, would a clean tank of gas take care of it? Or does it require replacing the fuel filter?

[ilikerice]

I dont know if it would be water in the tank or bad gas. That would cause a check engine light to come on with a "random misfire" code probably. Also, he says it runs fine after it starts. Bad fuel will cause it to run a little rough. I could be wrong though, I have been before.

If that was the case, you would have to drain the tank of the current gas. Id put some in an empty clean water bottle and let it sit for a few mins. The water and fuel will separate like oil and water. That would confirm that. Then go thru your records where you purchased the gas from and they will have to pay for the labor if it can be proven. Did this a few times at lexus. Dealer will call up the place you got the gas and they will have to pay for the parts and labor.

There is no fuel filter to replace. The filter is located ON the fuel pump in the tank.

My car is still under warranty, but I don't think it covers towing or loaner car. All the ToyotaCare benefits started after the I bought my Yaris.

Id still go to the dealer and raise hell about it. Its under warranty still and it is not working mechanically like you bought it. They should find out whats wrong and fix it.

Sorry if im pushing the whole warranty thing and free stuff, but you have a new car and your already paying monthly payments. You are not suppose to be having to repair your car with your money if its still under warranty. It aggervates me that some mechanics cant duplicate a problem just by doing it once. I made sure I would ride with the customer and have them show me the problem so we are eye to eye on what noise, vibration, shimmy, pull, etc.. that they are complaining about.

[CTScott]

The reason that I am thinking fuel issue is that it takes so much to get it going, but once it is running it stays running fine. I am thinking that when it sits that sediment settles to the bottom and it takes some work for the fuel pump to suck past what's stuck to the filter to initially get running. Once running, the fuel pump has a little bypass hole that washes the surface of the filter, so that may be why once it is running it stays running. I too could be wrong, but it makes sense to me.

Also, there is a fuel filter. It is a plastic mesh one that snaps onto the bottom of the fuel pump. It is replaceable, but requires pulling the fuel sender assembly to do so. That's something that you'd really prefer someone else to do for you on their nickel if possible.

[ilikerice]

ok, yes then. I do agree with CTScott on that one. That does makes sense. BUT WE COULD BE WRONG!.. lol..

Is there a drain plug bolt on the Yaris? I havent checked. Almost all Lexus cars did, and a few toyota's. If so, he could go ahead and drain a alittle in a clear bottle and let it settle to see if there is debris/water in the tank.

[CTScott]

Originally Posted by ilikerice

ok, yes then. I do agree with CTScott on that one. That does makes sense. BUT WE COULD BE WRONG!.. lol..

Is there a drain plug bolt on the Yaris? I havent checked. Almost all Lexus cars did, and a few toyota's. If so, he could go ahead and drain a alittle in a clear bottle and let it settle to see if there is debris/water in the tank.

No drain plug on our tank. The only ways into the tank are through the spin on top of the fuel sender or the filler tube.

[cudchew]

Originally Posted by CTScott

The reason that I am thinking fuel issue is that it takes so much to get it going, but once it is running it stays running fine. I am thinking that when it sits that sediment settles to the bottom and it takes some work for the fuel pump to suck past what's stuck to the filter to initially get running. Once running, the fuel pump has a little bypass hole that washes the surface of the filter, so that may be why once it is running it stays running. I too could be wrong, but it makes sense to me.

Also, there is a fuel filter. It is a plastic mesh one that snaps onto the bottom of the fuel pump. It is replaceable, but requires pulling the fuel sender assembly to do so. That's something that you'd really prefer someone else to do for you on their nickel if possible.

I think your are right about the fuel. I had about 20% left in the gas tank, so last night I went to another gas station than the one I usually go to and filled up the tank. Today when I went to work, the engine started after 2 tries, an improvement. Tonight after work, the engine started right up the first time! I'm hoping that means the end of this problem.

[NZ-FE Vios]

Tcuv or certified preowned will cover it and does give complementary towing. As it is still under warranty I would do exactly as ilikerice says. Definitely shouldn't be doing that. I believe a rental would be fair too. My tcuv deductible is 50$ . So that's not much.

[ianpog]

Originally Posted by cudchew

I think your are right about the fuel. I had about 20% left in the gas tank, so last night I went to another gas station than the one I usually go to and filled up the tank. Today when I went to work, the engine started after 2 tries, an improvement. Tonight after work, the engine started right up the first time! I'm hoping that means the end of this problem.

hi there. actually i am having that kind of a problem on my 2007 yaris. but yours is kinda worse. mine needs to be started/cranked for like 3-4 seconds before it would start. then like yours, once it starts, I can shut off the engine and restart it with no problem

i just want to ask if changing fuel had solved your problem

thanks
adrian

[yariseggvvti]

check the air flow sensor.

[ianpog]

Originally Posted by yariseggvvti

check the air flow sensor.

hi there. i need your help. how will i know if my air flow sensor is still working then?

thanks
adrian

[ianpog]

hi there. i've checked the air flow sensor and it is totally clean for me. no residues or whatsoever. any other ways to troubleshoot my hard starting yaris?

thanks
adrian