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Old 02-18-2020, 01:27 PM   #73
mitch9521
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Originally Posted by tmontague View Post
much of this is very true but the reality is running a successful YT channel is a completely different thing (as you guys stated above). To keep a YT channel successful you have to cater to the masses and as already pointed out you get further away from actual car people.

In all honesty though, real car people spend more of their time under a car as opposed to sitting in front of a TV watching YT channels, at least relative to the average YT viewer. There are many car channels I used to watch that I no longer find really interesting anymore. Not to sound like I know everything about a car (I do not), but there is very little on YT that isn't something I have either already done or have learned how to do. The more you modify a car the less people online can help you as you chart new territory and the less YT videos will be able to teach you things.

The car community is a hard YT channel business model - it takes a lot of man hours to perform the work, then you have to edit all the while hoping you have enough of a crowd interested in your build. This is why the most successful YT channels are BS Vlogs about gossip garbage. They appeal the the optimal YT viewer of 12-16 years old and the content doesn't need very much editing, you just sit and spew garbage and kids eat it up.

MCM is a business like it or not and they have to adapt to keep the lights on. This means more often uploads, builds the mainstream wants to see and then quick turnover to the next build.
Very true words there. I tend to stick to the smaller channels(under 1 million subs). They seem more genuine and original for the most part.
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Old 02-19-2020, 02:32 AM   #74
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I just talk to the turner about standalone ecu in my car. It will take him 5 days to do the wiring and 2 days to do the ecu tuning. It will cost 8000AUD around. MCM reality show does not mention this and make the wiring look easy. With haltech their sponsor, who would spend 8000 just for an ecu.
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Old 02-19-2020, 05:50 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by benoityip View Post
I just talk to the turner about standalone ecu in my car. It will take him 5 days to do the wiring and 2 days to do the ecu tuning. It will cost 8000AUD around. MCM reality show does not mention this and make the wiring look easy. With haltech their sponsor, who would spend 8000 just for an ecu.
That doesn't sound right at all. Even if that included the cost of the ECU, that's outrageous. I did all of my wiring for the AEM F/IC and it took a total of a few hours to physically do the wiring. Figuring out the wiring from schematics took a few more hours. I did spread this over many days but I was also doing other stuff to the car. Why not ask for a detailed written quote? You could scan it and post it up here. I would love to see that.

Yes, MCM did not mention the $1200.00 ecu or how long it took to wire it and create a basemap and final mapping from scratch. Depending on the ecu you buy, there may be basemaps online that would get your car running, then usually a few hours on the dyno should result in a safe, reliable tune.
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Old 02-19-2020, 06:28 AM   #76
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I visited the tuner face to face, and that shop is a reputable shop in Sydney. I ask him many many questions. His answer is around this is a once off job that requires lots of research, and may have some problem to overcome.. Wiring is the most complicated bit. I am not doing a piggy back, I am doing a standalone ECU and require to wire the Drive my wire to increase the RPM limit.

I am in the process of contacting the wiring guru Dave as mentioned in MCM episode.
I also watched that MCM episode again. Judging by the same clothes before and after the wiring, highly likely to be on the same day.

In the MCM episode, Elite 750 does not need to wire Drive By wire throttle. I have special requirement to use Elite 1500 to wire the Drive by wire throttle to increase the rpm limit..The MCM episode said Elite 750 is a piggy back system. I am not sure by adding Drive by wire in the equation, would it make it 10 times more difficult?

Also, that MCM build does not have abs and traction control, whereas my car has those things. The MCM is using a older corolla engine (judging by the oil filter), that corolla does not have abs and traction control. My version of corolla has more safety features, and using a cartilage oil filter.

MCM also use the same wiring diagram in my car (as shown in the pdf in their Macbook)

There is no basemap for this engine, the closest is 3sGE with dual VVTI, but after talking to the sales in Haltech, they told me basemap is not the bottleneck in tuning

I will report back here after talking to Dave, who is working at haltech in Sydney

Last edited by benoityip; 02-19-2020 at 07:38 AM.
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Old 02-19-2020, 10:57 AM   #77
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That honestly doesn't sound too umrealistic of a price all in. Paying that much you expect it to run flawlessly and that is what they likely are delivering.

You have to factor in the research and time they have to do to make it work. This is something that many of us take for granted as we do it on our spare time and dont really consider it as time on our builds.

This is something that I've been pondering recently about the true cost of me going for a high compression 2zr build down the road. It seems that only way to do this is in stages to spread to cost over time. No way I'm dropping $10k CAD on my track toy. This is with me doing as much labor as possible.

The main issue to cost is the 2zr not being a tuner platform. There is no OTS starting point for engine management. Pay to play for dyno time and a tuner to start from scratch. I've seriously considered a 20 swap but in all reality that seems even more expensive when all said and done
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Old 02-19-2020, 11:11 AM   #78
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That honestly doesn't sound too umrealistic of a price all in. Paying that much you expect it to run flawlessly and that is what they likely are delivering.

You have to factor in the research and time they have to do to make it work. This is something that many of us take for granted as we do it on our spare time and dont really consider it as time on our builds.

This is something that I've been pondering recently about the true cost of me going for a high compression 2zr build down the road. It seems that only way to do this is in stages to spread to cost over time. No way I'm dropping $10k CAD on my track toy. This is with me doing as much labor as possible.

The main issue to cost is the 2zr not being a tuner platform. There is no OTS starting point for engine management. Pay to play for dyno time and a tuner to start from scratch. I've seriously considered a 20 swap but in all reality that seems even more expensive when all said and done
$7000.00 doesn't sound unrealistic to you for an ECU install and tune? When I spoke to another tuner before embarking on my build, he recommended standalone. He confirmed that the Haltech ECU he was looking (~$1500.00) at supported DBW and he estimated about a day on the dyno tuning. The wiring can't be that much more complicated than the F/IC. In the conversation I had with the tuner, he gave me a quick list of questions and said that if the parameters were met, it would work in my car. Subsequently, he looked up my car and the aftermarket ECU and was convinced they'd work together properly. As far as research goes, isn't that basically looking at wiring diagrams? A professional tuning shop should be well versed in matching up ECUs to a variety of cars. Maybe it's that anti-corolla sentiment in effect. $7000.00 still seems incredibly high. But, it would be nice to see a detailed work order. Maybe they are ballparking really high in case they do run into significant problems.
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Old 02-19-2020, 12:10 PM   #79
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$7000.00 doesn't sound unrealistic to you for an ECU install and tune? When I spoke to another tuner before embarking on my build, he recommended standalone. He confirmed that the Haltech ECU he was looking (~$1500.00) at supported DBW and he estimated about a day on the dyno tuning. The wiring can't be that much more complicated than the F/IC. In the conversation I had with the tuner, he gave me a quick list of questions and said that if the parameters were met, it would work in my car. Subsequently, he looked up my car and the aftermarket ECU and was convinced they'd work together properly. As far as research goes, isn't that basically looking at wiring diagrams? A professional tuning shop should be well versed in matching up ECUs to a variety of cars. Maybe it's that anti-corolla sentiment in effect. $7000.00 still seems incredibly high. But, it would be nice to see a detailed work order. Maybe they are ballparking really high in case they do run into significant problems.
Expectations vs reality.

A good tuning shop will know exactly what the reality would be with a swapped engine which now involves an additional wiring diagram and complexities. A good shop is full of work and isn't grasping at work to keep the lights on which makes the cost reflective of what it would cost to be worth it for them. Again, I guarantee this is their all in cost for a well sorted car, not one that has idle issues and ambient temp issues that need to be sorted by the owner.

A standalone is a whole different ball game than a piggyback, they are not even close. Dealing with DBW vs a piggyback which keeps the original ECU in place to manage all of that is apples to oranges. Your build is an example of the above. How much time have you put into making your car driveable and idle properly? Keep in mind this is all on a piggyback and not a standalone. Now think of how much time it would have been for a tuner to do all of that when you factor all of the time in that you spent reading things online and various wiring diagrams.

When you take a step back you are hours upon hours into your build, and all of this is just to get it street driveable, not necessarily ready for the demands of a track and heat soak or various maps. I am no different, but if I expected a shop to do what I did I would expect to pay big $. In the world of tuning and car builds you pay to play...or you do it yourself (and still pay somewhat).

Yes the above quote is a lot of cash but not out of the realm of what I would somewhat expect for a top tuning shop for a ready to go car.
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Old 02-19-2020, 04:13 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by tmontague View Post
Expectations vs reality.

A good tuning shop will know exactly what the reality would be with a swapped engine which now involves an additional wiring diagram and complexities. A good shop is full of work and isn't grasping at work to keep the lights on which makes the cost reflective of what it would cost to be worth it for them. Again, I guarantee this is their all in cost for a well sorted car, not one that has idle issues and ambient temp issues that need to be sorted by the owner.

A standalone is a whole different ball game than a piggyback, they are not even close. Dealing with DBW vs a piggyback which keeps the original ECU in place to manage all of that is apples to oranges. Your build is an example of the above. How much time have you put into making your car driveable and idle properly? Keep in mind this is all on a piggyback and not a standalone. Now think of how much time it would have been for a tuner to do all of that when you factor all of the time in that you spent reading things online and various wiring diagrams.

When you take a step back you are hours upon hours into your build, and all of this is just to get it street driveable, not necessarily ready for the demands of a track and heat soak or various maps. I am no different, but if I expected a shop to do what I did I would expect to pay big $. In the world of tuning and car builds you pay to play...or you do it yourself (and still pay somewhat).

Yes the above quote is a lot of cash but not out of the realm of what I would somewhat expect for a top tuning shop for a ready to go car.
You make some good points, Trevor. For sure, if I added up my hours, it would represent a lot of time in research. That said, it was all new to me. When I was speaking to the tuner who ultimately DID NOT tune/work on my car, he did say that there were definitely differences between installing a standalone vs a piggyback, but that the major cost difference would come from two main differences: 1) the cost of the hardware and 2) the tuning time as it would be from scratch. However, he may have been more familiar with the Toyota platform. He estimated that he could build a turbo kit for my car, including a standalone computer, tuned and on the road for around $10 000.00. He confirmed that the aftermarket ECU he had in mind could indeed control DBW. Now, this guy runs a small shop and likely doesn't have the overhead or monied customer base that another more established shop would have. I still think that $7000.00 for the install and tuning of an ECU is excessive, but I guess it boils down to what the market will bear.

You are correct in that I did chase a few issues. I suffered idle bucking and found the cure for that (2.2Kohm resistor) on the crank signal wire. I also did have to make alterations to my fuel and timing maps to compensate for the difference between a dyno tune and the street driving realities. So far, I have been extremely fortunate. My car starts virtually as soon as I turn the key, Idle is perfect. What I would like in a standalone - vs the piggyback - though is the ability to control partial boost/partial AFR.
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Old 02-19-2020, 11:01 PM   #81
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MCM new episode. I may have to change my mind about MCM. This was a good episode!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr_RYV3LKD4
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Old 02-19-2020, 11:40 PM   #82
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o ye of little faith :p

I'm at work now so will need to wait to watch (extended toilet break, here we come!), but that's a reassuring comment from you!
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Old 02-19-2020, 11:56 PM   #83
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I hope they rebuild it, maybe with a stronger bottom end and keep Yaris Hilton going.
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Old 02-21-2020, 09:09 AM   #84
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I hope they rebuild it, maybe with a stronger bottom end and keep Yaris Hilton going.
They rarely keep any of the cars that they build. From a financial standpoint it wouldn't make sense to rebuild a car that no one really likes. If they do put it back together I wouldn't be surprised if they toss another 2zr in it, leave it stock, and get rid of it.
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Old 02-21-2020, 10:33 PM   #85
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They rarely keep any of the cars that they build. From a financial standpoint it wouldn't make sense to rebuild a car that no one really likes. If they do put it back together I wouldn't be surprised if they toss another 2zr in it, leave it stock, and get rid of it.
When you say, "that no one really likes" do you mean Marty and Moog, or the viewers? There seems to be an overwhelming appeal to carry on with the car. I truly that hope they do. Personally, I just love to see them drop a healthy, low mileage 2ZR in it, add some gauges and go at it again. Then again, a build motor or 2ZZ swap and turbo would be awesome too. They have the fueling and electronics already in place to do either build.
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Old 02-24-2020, 03:19 AM   #86
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Last episode in the Yaris Hilton saga went up, looks like they tied up most of the loose ends for us Yaris nerds ;)
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Old 03-02-2020, 12:37 AM   #87
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Last episode in the Yaris Hilton saga went up, looks like they tied up most of the loose ends for us Yaris nerds ;)
LOL, yes they did. Sad to see her go.
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Old 03-02-2020, 11:46 AM   #88
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It was good to see them drop the "personality" stunts and just be real about it.
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Old 03-02-2020, 12:19 PM   #89
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It was good to see them drop the "personality" stunts and just be real about it.
Amen! I was getting sick of the ghost easter eggs throughout their vids. I guess spectres and phantoms sell, since about 90% of the comments were about that. If nothing else, they know their audience, or know how to make one.
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