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Old 11-23-2009, 09:44 AM   #1
Ironwill5
 
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Transmission designed for 10-15 min cold start delay

Brand new to forum and Toyota. I have an '08 Yaris, 4 dr. automatic. At least 2 months ago I started noticing a delay in shifting. It has slowly become more noticeable, especially 3rd to 4th. My b/f was riding/driving with me one day and he said "what's the noise?" "oh, you notice it too? sounds like the engine is whining, an audible high pitched hum. Been happening 'recently' " says I.

Took it to the dealership where it was orginally purchased (not by me) here in Texas just down the road. Took a service manager for a drive. I asked him to listen for the lack of 'proper' timing in the shift between 3rd and 4th. He agreed it was delayed. I unfortunately offered "I seem to notice it happening more when the car is cold." He jumped on that comment and said 'the ambient temperature outside can make a diffference.'

This is Texas. Not Minnesota, not Alaska. Told him I bought the car in January and it was fine. This is a 'new thing.' Car has 31,000 miles on it. (I have a long commute, mostly highway miles on a car that is still newish). Under warranty.

Left it at the dealer last night so they could check it first thing this morning. Presumable that means diagnostics and a test run to see if they can immitate what I'm hearing.

Service manager said "the car is designed for a cold start shift delay of between 10 and 15 minutes." That doesn't sound right to me. This is a NEW problem, started happening in 80 plus degree weather and is growing more noticeable. Again, this is Texas. I am waiting to hear back on what they find. Which, could be nothing, but there is a problem. I know my car.

Sorry to say I think there is a little, "you're a woman, what could you possibly know about a vehicle besides how to start the engine and drive it." Pretty old-school, male dominated hierarchy here.

Crazy maybe, but not stupid. Anyone know about this "design" in the car. I say it is BS. Maybe a solenoid issue or a chip isn't communicating properly, but something somewhere is not happening. This is a newer/recent problem.

What do I say to the guy if he comes back and says,... 'yeah, it's the cold start delay in shift designed into the car.' Also, he told me when he called me this morning, "you know, I've had 2 other cars last week that came in for this same problem." I am tempted to say, "ok, great call them and let me talk to one of them."

Thoughts anybody?
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Old 11-23-2009, 10:19 AM   #2
Indianspringsaz
 
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Just tell him, you would like to see the litrature explaining this feature.
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Old 11-23-2009, 10:31 AM   #3
Ironwill5
 
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Excellent.

Update - service manager just called. Said he could not replicate my problem. NO codes, diagnostics reveals nothing. Said once the temperature of the fluids go to operating temperature a) the little light on the dashboard went off (i've seen this happen) and b) can't fix what can't diagnose. Says the literature in the owners manual talks about this very thing and this is what's happening.

Then we got into an argument about how the outdoor temperature affects the metals and fluids and can cause a longer delay in proper temperature of the fluids. I said I bought the car in January and this was not an issue. It started becoming an issue 2 months ago in September. He said, "yes ma'am, I understand." We went round for 20 minutes and then, "I've just go to get off the phone because I've got another client." First he said the outdoor weather temperature was an factor, then when I gave him specifics he said it wasn't a factor.

I asked him if this would all be written up and documented as the car is still under warranty. He said of course. 3 years from now they won't fix it, but "I imagine if it becomes a problem in the next 30 - 60 days they'd take care of it." They being Toyota.

Upshot is, and I can understand this, they can't fix what they can't diagnose. So I said the collective wisdom of Toyota mechanics will be overridden and my own sense and experience of the car will be overridden if the computer cannot find a problem. He didn't reply to this.

Last edited by Ironwill5; 11-23-2009 at 11:05 AM.
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Old 11-23-2009, 11:24 AM   #4
yaris-me
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This issue surfaces regularly. The ECU manages the engine and until the engine is warmed up after three to five miles of driving, the upshift is delayed and no upshift from 3rd to 4th. The shifting will normalize after the engine is warmed. The cool engine light stays on till the engine reaches 130 degs, but the engine isn't warmed until 180 degs. I hope this helps.
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Old 11-23-2009, 11:25 AM   #5
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Where are you in Texas? I am in San Antonio, and there is a delay in shifting into top gear ('D', or '4' as you call it) with the automatic transmission when it is cold, indicated by the little thermometer light on the dash; but mine goes out within a mile or so of driving. There's been numerous threads about it, such as this one. It is caused by the ECU letting the engine warm up faster by delaying the tranmission from shifting into the highest gear. It will reportedly do that until the engine temperature reaches 130°, just go easy on the car until the light goes out; but that should occur within 3-5 minutes at the most, not 10-15 as the service manager you talked to stated. Are you sure he knew what he was talking about?

Also, not to be sarcastic or rude; but are you absolutely sure you are not knocking the gear shift into '3' from 'D'? It is a common problem with new Yaris owners.
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Old 11-23-2009, 11:34 AM   #6
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Thanks - very helpful. I am aware of the little green light coming on at start and going off at warm up. Nope. Don't bump the gear shift into third.

I am learning to navigate the forum and searched on "shifting" to help find a thread but perhaps could use a different word to search? Suggestions?

I'm in Buda. Drive back and forth 30 miles everyday to work.

Just got off the phone w/svr mgr. Called him back to check to make sure car has latest update in computer. And no, I am not sure he knew what he was talking about. He did refer me to the owner's manual about the little green light and what it means.

Problem is, I got this car in January and there were no shift delays. Fast forward to September and shift delay starts developing. But because computer can't diagnose, they can't fix.

I don't think he liked me asking questions.
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Old 11-23-2009, 11:35 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by yaris-me View Post
This issue surfaces regularly. The ECU manages the engine and until the engine is warmed up after three to five miles of driving, the upshift is delayed and no upshift from 3rd to 4th. The shifting will normalize after the engine is warmed. The cool engine light stays on till the engine reaches 130 degs, but the engine isn't warmed until 180 degs. I hope this helps.

Ok - I will pay very close attention to this. Need to find the thread on this site that talks about this issue.
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Old 11-23-2009, 11:58 AM   #8
yaris-me
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The other thing that you may not realize is that the ECU is adaptive. If you drive slow the ECU will adapt to that driving style. When someone who drives spiritedly drives your car for a while, you will notice a different feel to the car until it adapts back to you. This is done with the "drive by wire" throttle that the ECU controls.
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Old 11-23-2009, 06:04 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironwill5 View Post
Brand new to forum and Toyota. I have an '08 Yaris, 4 dr. automatic. At least 2 months ago I started noticing a delay in shifting. It has slowly become more noticeable, especially 3rd to 4th. My b/f was riding/driving with me one day and he said "what's the noise?" "oh, you notice it too? sounds like the engine is whining, an audible high pitched hum. Been happening 'recently' " says I.

Took it to the dealership where it was orginally purchased (not by me) here in Texas just down the road. Took a service manager for a drive. I asked him to listen for the lack of 'proper' timing in the shift between 3rd and 4th. He agreed it was delayed. I unfortunately offered "I seem to notice it happening more when the car is cold." He jumped on that comment and said 'the ambient temperature outside can make a diffference.'

This is Texas. Not Minnesota, not Alaska. Told him I bought the car in January and it was fine. This is a 'new thing.' Car has 31,000 miles on it. (I have a long commute, mostly highway miles on a car that is still newish). Under warranty.

Left it at the dealer last night so they could check it first thing this morning. Presumable that means diagnostics and a test run to see if they can immitate what I'm hearing.

Service manager said "the car is designed for a cold start shift delay of between 10 and 15 minutes." That doesn't sound right to me. This is a NEW problem, started happening in 80 plus degree weather and is growing more noticeable. Again, this is Texas. I am waiting to hear back on what they find. Which, could be nothing, but there is a problem. I know my car.

Sorry to say I think there is a little, "you're a woman, what could you possibly know about a vehicle besides how to start the engine and drive it." Pretty old-school, male dominated hierarchy here.

Crazy maybe, but not stupid. Anyone know about this "design" in the car. I say it is BS. Maybe a solenoid issue or a chip isn't communicating properly, but something somewhere is not happening. This is a newer/recent problem.

What do I say to the guy if he comes back and says,... 'yeah, it's the cold start delay in shift designed into the car.' Also, he told me when he called me this morning, "you know, I've had 2 other cars last week that came in for this same problem." I am tempted to say, "ok, great call them and let me talk to one of them."

Thoughts anybody?
You are making a big deal out of nothing. ALL Yaris, and in fact, ALL new cars do this. Mine does it. My daughter Jennifer's does it. My other daughter's Yaris does it too. My parent's new Fit does it, as does my GF's new Camry. My neighbor's 2007 GMS full size pick up does this, and so does my bosses 2006 Acura.

This issue has nothing to do with outside ambient temperature. It has to do with the temp of the engine and when the engine is cold it will shift late to (1) heat up the engine faster so the cat converter can do it's thing, and (2) heat up the water faster to allow the heater to pump hot air into the car.

Your car did this when you first bought it....you just never noticed it before.

ALL CARS DO THIS, so no need to make such a big deal about this, and I am surprise your service rider didn't tell you that after 1 second of hearing your story...goes to show you most car dealership service writers are flaming idiots.

Your car is fine, relax already!
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Old 11-23-2009, 06:06 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by yaris-me View Post
The other thing that you may not realize is that the ECU is adaptive. If you drive slow the ECU will adapt to that driving style. When someone who drives spiritedly drives your car for a while, you will notice a different feel to the car until it adapts back to you. This is done with the "drive by wire" throttle that the ECU controls.
Adaptive ECU has nothing to do with this person's issue. Her engine is cold and the car shifts late (as is the case with all cars) until the engine heats up.
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Old 11-23-2009, 06:19 PM   #11
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We head up to Buda all the time, Cabela's is my Toys 'R Us!

So, we have about the same temperatures being that we are less than a hour apart. We live on the edge of the Hill Country near Helotes so our temps are usually a little cooler than in San Antonio proper.

I am lucky as the first main road I hit only has a speed limit of 40 MPH so I just keep it at that speed until the temp light goes out. Honestly, it does so in under a mile and normally just a couple of minutes into my commute.

The next time you drive the car, try to see how long and far it takes for the temp light to go out; then see if the car still fails to shift into top gear (fourth).

Your problem may not be the ECU keeping the car out of top gear until it is warm enough, but obviously since that is a common issue for new Yaris owners that is the first response you'll get. Unfortunately, with the car being so new and somewhat uncommon; I don't recall anyone having similar issues. Don't fret, what we (and your service manager) probably need is more data. If you can keep track of the above info on when the car is warming up, and if and how many times it happens after that, we may be able to help you better understand what the problem might be.

Lastly, did you buy the car used? I ask because you said you got it in January, and I only got mine the previous October and the '09s were already out when I was looking; but there were also 08s left and that is what I ended up with.

If by chance the car was purchased used, the previous owner may have made some modifications to it. If that is the case, try taking some pics of the engine compartment and post them. A modification could cause ECU problems but not always. Or the car could be stock and the ECU going bad. There are just so many different hypotheses that we need to start a list, see if we can disprove any of them, then rank them against each other until we have the most likely explanation.

And don't lose faith! This is a great car and you've come to the best place for collective knowledge on it. If you are going to find an answer anywhere, it will be on this forum!

Cheers! M2
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Old 11-23-2009, 07:05 PM   #12
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Adaptive ECU has nothing to do with this person's issue. Her engine is cold and the car shifts late (as is the case with all cars) until the engine heats up.
Lighten up.
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Old 11-23-2009, 07:54 PM   #13
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If you are really concerned , change the oil inthe Gearbox this might help some
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Old 11-23-2009, 08:24 PM   #14
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If you are really concerned , change the oil inthe Gearbox this might help some
I wouldn't recommend that as a "shot in the dark" for a relatively new automatic Yaris. It uses a special synthetic ATF that's expensive, is very long lasting (the Yaris owner's manual actually has no recommended change schedule for this), and it requires a special procedure to do it. It's not the problem, anyway.

When I buzz up to 55 MPH with a cold engine in mine, it stays in third gear for the normal warmup as mentioned before a little bit after the "COOL" light goes out. Probably 15 seconds more at that speed. I only notice the delayed shifting when I do go up to highway speed with it cold. Around town I seldom notice it.
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Old 11-23-2009, 11:23 PM   #15
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Lighten up.
Why don't you chill.
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Old 11-24-2009, 03:36 AM   #16
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Why don't you chill.
Banties Punch much?
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Old 11-24-2009, 07:50 AM   #17
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Before this thread degrades even further into a name-calling contest, maybe we should consider the possibility that the OP does have a problem with her Yaris and that it might not be the warm-up function as suspected...

Just for the sake of a mental exercise, can we come up with a list of possibilities for what is causing the problem? I think the first would be a faulty ECU. It’s happened before if I recall correctly and would cause the symptoms noted. I honestly don’t think it is the actual transmission itself, but we can’t discount it until it is proven otherwise. What transmission problems could cause delayed shifting?

And I have to agree with Yaris Hilton on NOT replacing the transmission fluid as there is very little chance that it could be the culprit unless this car has spent some time in water deep enough to get into the transmission. Given that central Texas is the flash flood capital of the world, that is always a possibility and if they car was purchased used than it could explain the problem; but I would expect it to affect all shifting and not just into the top (4th) gear.

Let’s try being helpful in diagnosing the problem, and forgo the pissing contests!

Thanks! M2
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Old 11-24-2009, 11:17 AM   #18
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This is NORMAL for your car. When the engine is cold it delays the shift thus resulting in higher RPM thus resulting in faster warmup times thus resulting in better fuel economy. If it concerns you you could start your car and let it idle for 10 15 minutes while you go back in the house and finish your coffe or breakfast. Or sit with your foot on the gas pedal at 5k rpms for a few minutes to speed up warming time.

Both which are not advised as they will waste more gas. It happens to all yaris when the engine is cold. Notice the light on your dash that says cool. Pay attention to when the light goes off. That is when it will no longer hold the gears in the transmission and start to shift normal again. Because the coolant temp has reach the proper amount and the computer detects the vehicle is now at operating temperature.

Once again there is nothing wrong with your car and also most dealer service writers have no tech experience and only can spit back up what the technician says. So asking them questions will usually result in dumb answers. No offense to any dealer service writers here this is just my first hand experience and from what ive seen on other members posts.
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