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01-16-2010, 06:50 AM | #1 |
Drives: 2008 Sedan A/T Silver Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 202
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Would an All-Electric yaris be cheaper in the long run?
Imagine if Toyota decided to come out with an all-electric Yaris: They would remove the engine and the transmission (the two most expensive parts) and replace it with two eletric motors (one on each front wheel) and a battery to power it.
Since now you don't need oil changes, trans fulid changes, coolant changes, timing belts, etc, and all the things associated with an engine/trans configuration, would the total overall cost be cheaper? Would the oil companines just sit idly by with something like this? What do you think? |
01-16-2010, 07:52 AM | #2 |
Drives: 2014 yaris 5 speed Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: michigan
Posts: 642
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no way to know without knowing the starting price, which i expect would be considerably higher than a gas engine yaris.
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01-16-2010, 09:56 AM | #3 |
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Drives: 2007 Yaris Liftback Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Reno, Nevada, USA
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A lot more is done away with in an EV versus a fossil fuel burner than just the engine and transmission. Add to that all emmission controls, the entire exhaust system, etc. The Yaris already has electronic steering so that's taken care of.
You can also factor in less than half the operating costs of a fossil fuel burner, and better than breaking even if you have to replace the battery pack every 5 years. With all that taken into account they are even, and with mass production the pricing would become attractive. If you don't have to pay for the battery pack then it could be priced $5k higher than its dirtier counterpart and still be a smart purchase.
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01-16-2010, 10:06 AM | #4 |
Drives: 09 yaris Join Date: Mar 2009
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With the rising cost of power would it pay off?
Would the US power grid support even 10% of the population having electric cars? Would having electric cars truly reduce the demand on oil with most of our power coming form oil?
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09, 3 door lift back, auto. I live on the road with my wife. We travel as needed for our work and drive up to 4,500 miles in a bad week. |
01-16-2010, 11:09 AM | #5 | |
Steals terrorist's lunch
Drives: 2007 Yaris Liftback Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Reno, Nevada, USA
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All energy costs are going up, not just electricity. I paid $3/gallon to fill up yesterday.
Quote:
I'm not sure what you mean as none of our electricity comes from oil. It comes from coal, natural gas, nuclear, geothermal, hydro, solar and wind. If you meant coal, study after study has shown that even if your electricity comes from a coal plant - by far the dirtiest source - it is 70% cleaner from well to wheel than gasoline.
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- Brian Share the Road I often carry 2 carpool passengers and mountain bikes or snowboards/skis over a 4,500 foot elevation difference. Click the graphic above to see my detailed mileage logs. |
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01-16-2010, 11:35 AM | #6 |
Toyota (TM) Shareholder
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In the Northeast, the power grid can barely handle the load of home air conditioning during mild heat waves. I am sure that the Northeast is not unique. Electric is also not cheap in this area
I am not a big fan of the concept of the electric car. While the car is clean the methods of producing electric often isn't. I think the best solution are small cars and hybrids. I would go a step further and suppport laws that say if you want an SUV or large vehicle it has to be a hybrid. __________________ “Many laws protecting environmental quality have promoted liberty by securing property against the destructive trespass of pollution” — Ronald Reagan Last edited by Sirius-XM; 01-16-2010 at 12:22 PM. |
01-16-2010, 11:49 AM | #7 |
Drives: 2007 Yaris Hatchback Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Beaufort, South Carolina
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to OP: i don't believe so. batteries are just too expensive, and need replacing too often. and in similar thoughts, think about what it takes just to create a big enough battery for a car application, it's like solar panels-- in the end it takes more energy to make than you can receive from it. that's just my take on it.
now a diesel-hybrid yaris would rock, imo, it'd also probably be around 16-18k$ or more, when all is said and done :\ |
01-16-2010, 12:40 PM | #8 | |
Steals terrorist's lunch
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Quote:
Follow the money to find the (un)truth.
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- Brian Share the Road I often carry 2 carpool passengers and mountain bikes or snowboards/skis over a 4,500 foot elevation difference. Click the graphic above to see my detailed mileage logs. |
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01-16-2010, 02:18 PM | #9 |
Drives: 2008 Sedan A/T Silver Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 202
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Thanks for your responses. Bailout, I see that you are pretty optimistic about such a possibility. In a similar way, I was thinking the same like you, in seeing how an electric only yaris would be able to get rid of much of the components needed just to run a normal gas engine. I almost forgot about the battery life though. I would think that those batteries on a car will most certainly have to be replaced down the road. Now I know that the Prius and similar hybrids are still running good, even after the old ones have been going on for 10 years or so, but that's because, from what I read, they are never full charged nor depleted, but kept between a 40% - 70%. But the way I see it, they never use the full capacity of the battery. Hmm....just my thoughts.
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01-16-2010, 03:55 PM | #10 | |
Drives: 2007 Yaris Hatchback Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Beaufort, South Carolina
Posts: 388
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Quote:
I find no reason to defend myself, but have you done an ounce of research on this matter? Put your pride and arrogance away and see the situation for what it is, not what it could be. |
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01-16-2010, 04:10 PM | #11 | |
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Drives: 07 Yaris Turbo Join Date: May 2007
Location: Canoga Park, CA
Posts: 14,859
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Quote:
Actually, as often as I disagree with bailout (and call him out for unsubstantiated opinions), I believe he IS educated in this area, and I agree with most of his points. A couple of additional thoughts: *you can add smog inspections to your list of expenses saved. *The yaris doesn't need power steering at all, less energy used by the system -- and I prefer it without. *there is a greater cost for regenerative braking technology (and more parts in that system) on the other side. Funny thing about forums - no one ever bothers to cite their source. So, either we agree to disagree, or we ALL cite what we base our opinions on. I doubt the latter is going to happen, so how about a little mutual respect? Telling someone it's a great time for them to learn (bailout) is sarcastic - so is calling someone prideful and arrogant (scape). In what way does that serve the argument, or the OP's question?
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Micro Image forums, online store and shop are now closed. It was a great eight year run, but it was time to focus on other things. I'm still selling parts on eBay under micro*image seller ID and customers can still make requests for anything specific. |
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01-16-2010, 05:46 PM | #12 |
Then you also need to take into account the latest news from Japan on Electric cars .
Are you ready for this as of Now All electric cars that are produced in Japan must be fitted with external speakers , that produce a sound of what ever ie running water , Chirpping Birds etc so people can hear the cars coming This is due to ,the many pedestrian deaths cuased by electric cars , been seen and not heard and people steping out in front of them |
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01-16-2010, 06:15 PM | #13 |
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Drives: 07 Yaris Turbo Join Date: May 2007
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^ that sounds peaceful! - would be kind of entertaining at the drag strip, too.
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Micro Image forums, online store and shop are now closed. It was a great eight year run, but it was time to focus on other things. I'm still selling parts on eBay under micro*image seller ID and customers can still make requests for anything specific. |
01-16-2010, 06:27 PM | #14 |
Drives: 09 yaris Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: on the road
Posts: 236
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I read an article last year saying that for such a load to be added to our power grid we would have to go back to load shedding and electric cars would be one of the items that would be shed. I’ll try to dig up the article some time to night.
I do have a link that might help someone visualize the power grid. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=110997398 My bone stock yaris is about unheard as it is.
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09, 3 door lift back, auto. I live on the road with my wife. We travel as needed for our work and drive up to 4,500 miles in a bad week. |
01-16-2010, 06:40 PM | #15 |
Drives: 2014 yaris 5 speed Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: michigan
Posts: 642
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[QUOTE=BailOut;433432] If you don't have to pay for the battery pack then it could be priced $5k higher than its dirtier counterpart and still be a smart purchase.[/QUOTE
thats the rub. if it were only $5k more, that would be fantastic. im afraid it will be at least $7-$10k more than its gas engine counterpart. |
01-16-2010, 08:08 PM | #16 |
Drives: 09 yaris Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: on the road
Posts: 236
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Level 1 requires a dedicated 120, 20 amp GFCI outlet
Level 2 requires a dedicated 240, 40 amp GFCI outlet I could see where a power company would want a level 2 charger to be able to be dropped form the system liked they used to do with electric water heaters in some parts of the country. The more power you use the more they charge per a KWH. Unless there were some other tax incentives or something I still don’t see where it would pay off.
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09, 3 door lift back, auto. I live on the road with my wife. We travel as needed for our work and drive up to 4,500 miles in a bad week. |
01-16-2010, 08:38 PM | #17 |
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most charging would occur at night, during lower consumption periods. Sounds alright to me
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Micro Image forums, online store and shop are now closed. It was a great eight year run, but it was time to focus on other things. I'm still selling parts on eBay under micro*image seller ID and customers can still make requests for anything specific. |
01-16-2010, 08:59 PM | #18 |
Drives: 09 yaris Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: on the road
Posts: 236
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Are you saying that you would not just come home and plug it up or would you come home and hope you plug it in right before you go to bed. I’m sure unless you were going right back out you would plug it in when you got home so no I don’t think most of the charging would be at night; I think most of it would be when there was already a high demand on the power grid from every one getting home from work cooking dinner and taking showers.
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09, 3 door lift back, auto. I live on the road with my wife. We travel as needed for our work and drive up to 4,500 miles in a bad week. |
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