Fuel Prices

[why?]

Originally Posted by PhotoDu.de

Yes, taxes change. They are not the main reason for the volatility in the price of gas.

If you think government is ran ineffectively then vote for an effective government, or revolt.

And sorry if the Somalia bit was a little hyperbolic.

You are still trying to simplify things, it isn't like anyone can flip a switch, it took us at least 50 years to get where we are.

The volatility isn't that big a deal, although that is caused by fools and wise men betting on the future price, legalized gambling of the stock market. And that is just nuts, but that is the system we have, for better or usually for much, much worse.

[KrazyDawg]

Originally Posted by chrisj

So, while I hate $2.50 a gallon gas, we all have to pay it, and it only makes sense to get a car that gets the very best fuel economy.

I'm still paying $3.03 here. It's mainly because CA pays the highest taxes in the nation for gases at nearly $0.64 while KY is $0.37. Alaska pays the lowest tax yet they have one of the highest rates.

http://gasbuddy.com/Tax_Info.aspx

With all the revenue generated in gas taxes, there's still plenty of potholes and roads that need to be addressed.

[DevilGirl]

Originally Posted by KrazyDawg

With all the revenue generated in gas taxes, there's still plenty of potholes and roads that need to be addressed.

There always will be just due to the simple factor of how many cars are on the roads these days. The more road/bridge is used, the sooner it needs repairs.

[Jitazuki]

Be thankful you don't live in the UK.

1 US Gallon of Petrol costs on average £4.56 ($7!!!)
The UK yaris will do 54 imperial-mpg which is around 45.8 us-mpg combined though.
But our insurance is also heavily taxed. I pay £2900 for insurance on my UK yaris which is roughly $4500. Just for insurance! Around 20% of this is tax.
On top of all this there is road tax varying from £20 - £955 dependant on CO2 emissions. (Luckily the yaris will only set you back £30($45) here)
And on top of this, we still have motorway(highway) toll roads!
The vehicle tax is also huge. The standard UK yaris has a 1.33L engine and 101bhp and costs £11200 OTR. ($17350!!)

And our streets aren't exactly "perfect" either..

[why?]

Originally Posted by Jitazuki

Be thankful you don't live in the UK.

1 US Gallon of Petrol costs on average £4.56 ($7!!!)
The UK yaris will do 54 imperial-mpg which is around 45.8 us-mpg combined though.
But our insurance is also heavily taxed. I pay £2900 for insurance on my UK yaris which is roughly $4500. Just for insurance! Around 20% of this is tax.
On top of all this there is road tax varying from £20 - £955 dependant on CO2 emissions. (Luckily the yaris will only set you back £30($45) here)
And on top of this, we still have motorway(highway) toll roads!
The vehicle tax is also huge. The standard UK yaris has a 1.33L engine and 101bhp and costs £11200 OTR. ($17350!!)

And our streets aren't exactly "perfect" either..

I've seen some of those crazy British and European taxes. I don't think I could bring myself to own a car if I lived over there, I'd have to live and work near a rail, or in a city with a good metro system.

Of course the Brits are starting to go in the right direction to, while we go in the opposite. You'd think our leaders would take a look at what they've been doing, and learn from their mistakes, but nope!

[Callisto]

Originally Posted by DevilGirl

There always will be just due to the simple factor of how many cars are on the roads these days. The more road/bridge is used, the sooner it needs repairs.

In theory, it should not matter, as the taxes on gasoline/road diesel would be proportional to the number of vehicles on the road and the amount of damage they cause. A small vehicle that does less damage also burns less fuel. The problem is not that there are too many cars, but that the tax money goes into a "general fund" where it is impossible to determine where the money came from and thus what it should be used for. It would be great if those "representatives" in the various governments would make a law that all tax revenue that is earmarked for a certain use goes into a specific account that can be accessed only for those uses. However, this will probably never happen because it makes pork-barrel that much more difficult.

[BailOut]

Originally Posted by why?

I've seen some of those crazy British and European taxes. I don't think I could bring myself to own a car if I lived over there, I'd have to live and work near a rail, or in a city with a good metro system.

Of course the Brits are starting to go in the right direction to, while we go in the opposite. You'd think our leaders would take a look at what they've been doing, and learn from their mistakes, but nope!

+1 on all points

[henry33]

I think that is still not so much 3 dollars a gallon means that each liter cost app. $0.8 cents I pay in Slovakia 1.3 euro for liter which is 1.7 dollars so do not complain because you have still cheaper gas then in whole europe :(

[yaris0985]

here in Montreal is average of 1.07$/liters
if I check by toyota yaris 42 liters/11 gallons
is 1gallons= 3.8 liters
1.07$ X 3.8=4.06$/gallons I dont know if good or not

but 7years ago when a start to drive wee pay 0.79$/liters=3.00$/gallons
and during the winter/long week-end/christmans a lot of reason to make the price going up to 1.20$/liters easy or 4.56$ gallons

here we have no taxes on the road or tolls fees,

[why?]

Originally Posted by henry33

I think that is still not so much 3 dollars a gallon means that each liter cost app. $0.8 cents I pay in Slovakia 1.3 euro for liter which is 1.7 dollars so do not complain because you have still cheaper gas then in whole europe :(

Originally Posted by yaris0985

here in Montreal is average of 1.07$/liters
if I check by toyota yaris 42 liters/11 gallons
is 1gallons= 3.8 liters
1.07$ X 3.8=4.06$/gallons I dont know if good or not

but 7years ago when a start to drive wee pay 0.79$/liters=3.00$/gallons
and during the winter/long week-end/christmans a lot of reason to make the price going up to 1.20$/liters easy or 4.56$ gallons

here we have no taxes on the road or tolls fees,

All of Europe and most of the rest of the world gas is taxed to death. And then of course the fools try and tell you how horrible the product is and we shouldn't use it, like they are doing with cigarettes.

You think these people would know how to think, and realize that if no one is buying it no one would be paying the absurd taxes.

[henry33]

why? you are right the taxation is horrible here but what can you do :(

[KrazyDawg]

Originally Posted by Jitazuki

Be thankful you don't live in the UK.

1 US Gallon of Petrol costs on average £4.56 ($7!!!)
The UK yaris will do 54 imperial-mpg which is around 45.8 us-mpg combined though.
But our insurance is also heavily taxed. I pay £2900 for insurance on my UK yaris which is roughly $4500. Just for insurance! Around 20% of this is tax.
On top of all this there is road tax varying from £20 - £955 dependant on CO2 emissions. (Luckily the yaris will only set you back £30($45) here)
And on top of this, we still have motorway(highway) toll roads!
The vehicle tax is also huge. The standard UK yaris has a 1.33L engine and 101bhp and costs £11200 OTR. ($17350!!)

And our streets aren't exactly "perfect" either..

But in return, you have universal health care and mass public transit. The cars in Europe also have higher MPG.

[why?]

Originally Posted by henry33

why? you are right the taxation is horrible here but what can you do :(

Revolt. Or more easily, move.

Originally Posted by KrazyDawg

But in return, you have universal health care and mass public transit. The cars in Europe also have higher MPG.

Universal health care that is becoming more basic with each passing day, and with more and more Brits also buying private health insurance supplements.

And the cars are taxed like crazy as well. I forget what it is, but it is usually 1 tax based on engine displacement, another on car size, and sometimes some other ones as well. All due every single year. Not sure any of our European friends have really mentioned all the car based taxes they pay.

Now the public transportation? That is awesome.

[chrisj]

I remember paying Road Tax when I lived in England. Don't remember what it was, but I do remember that I thought it was too much...every year.

[Yar Is Word]

"The cost to produce a gallon of gas is about $.90"

http://books.google.com/books?id=NcH...%3F%22&f=false

[Yar Is Word]

Some quotes on profits taken from a longer article:

http://www.arabianoilandgas.com/arti...l-companies/3/


World's 10 largest publicly traded oil companies
by Kevin Baxter on Apr 19, 2009

numbers in billions $

1. Royal Dutch Shell (Netherlands)
Sales: 458.36 Profits: 26.28 Assets: 278.44 Market value: 135.10

2. ExxonMobil (United States)
Sales: 425.70 Profits: 45.22 Assets: 228.05 Market value: 335.54

3. BP (United Kingdom)
Sales: 361.14 Profits: 21.16 Assets: 228.24 Market value: 119.70

4. Chevron (United States)
Sales: 255.11 Profits: 23.93 Assets: 161.17 Market value: 121.70

5. Total (France)
Sales: 223.15 Profits: 14.74 Assets: 164.66 Market value: 112.90

6. Gazprom (Russia)
Sales: 97.29 Profits: 26.78 Assets: 276.81 Market value: 74.55

7. PetroChina (China)
Sales: 114.32 Profits: 19.94 Assets: 145.14 Market value: 270.56

8. ENI (Italy)
Sales: 158.32 Profits: 12.91 Assets: 278.44 Market value: 135.10

9 Petrobras-Petróleo Brasil (Brazil)
Sales: 92.08 Profits: 14.12 Assets: 120.68 Market value: 110.97

10 Sinopec-China Petroleum (China)
Sales: 154.28 Profits: 7.43 Assets: 100.41 Market value: 93.50

[mryaris]

Originally Posted by Yar Is Word

"The cost to produce a gallon of gas is about $.90"

That book was written in 2008.....a lot has changed in 2 years. Today, refining is approximately 9% of the price of gas. In July 2010, the US average for a gallon of regular unleaded was $2.73, so refining costs are about 25 cents.

Assuming $2.73 a gallon, about 40 cents are taxes, 25 cents to refine, $1.80 for the oil itself & about 27 cents for distrubution & marketing, etc.

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/gdu/gasdiesel.asp


Also, historically speaking, we are paying about as much for gas as compared to median household incomes as we always have. There are, of course, spikes and drop offs, but generally speaking we have always paid about 10% of the median hourly wage for a gallon of gas.

The median US income in 2010 (approx.) is $52000, which equates to $25/hour. Yes.....I know not everyone makes that much but for historical statistical analysis it is irrelevant (just so long as the same computations are used....so you can compare apples to apples). Anyway, 10% of $25 is $2.50 and we are paying about $2.75 a gallon right now so it's a little more than 10%. I gathered up median household incomes & average price of a gallon of gas since 1960 (in 5-year increments) and aside from a huge spike in 1980 and the dip in the 1990's, all are within a few points of each other.

I guess what I am saying is we are essentially paying the same for gas today as we always have (in relation to our income), so even though it is pushing $3/gallon right now it is the same as we were paying in 1985 when gas was $1.20/gallon (due to higher levels of income).

I'll try to type in my chart, but it may not turn out very well. Here's the layout:

(I divided the annual salary by the typical 40 hour work week, or 2080 hours per year, to arrive at the median hourly wage).

Year/median annual income (hourly wage)/Price of 1 gal/ratio of 1 gal/hour

1960/$5600($2.69)/$0.31/11.5%
1965/$6900($3.32)/$0.31/9.33%
1970/$8734($4.20)/$0.36/8.57%
1975/$11800($5.76)/$0.57/10.05%
1980/$17710($8.51)/$1.25/14.68%
1985/$23618($11.35)/$1.20/10.57%
1990/$29943($14.40)/$1.16/8.05%
1995/$34076($16.38)/$1.15/7.02%
2000/$41994($20.19)/$1.52/7.53%
2005/$47084($22.64)/$2.48/10.95%
2010/$52029($25.01)/$2.72/10.87%

I got my numbers from government websites (IRS, BLS, etc.) and may or may not be 100% accurate (as far as actual median incomes), but should be very close.

I will re-crunch the numbers using the minimum wages and see how they stack up, but the above figures indicate that as a function of income, gas prices have been pretty consistent over the past 50 years.

So quit whining about how much gas is and get a better paying job!

[mryaris]

OK.....I crunched the numbers using minimum wage instead of median income. As expected the percentages are higher and the fluctuations greater, but again, aside from the spike in 1980 & again in 2005 the numbers are pretty consistant.

Here's the breakdown for my chart:

Year/hourly minimum wage/price of gal of gas/ratio of gal per hour

1960/$1.00/$0.31/31.0%
1965/$1.25/$0.31/24.8%
1970/$1.60/$0.36/22.5%
1975/$2.10/$0.57/27.1%
1980/$3.10/$1.25/40.3%
1985/$3.35/$1.20/35.8%
1990/$3.80/$1.16/30.5%
1995/$4.25/$1.15/27.0%
2000/$5.15/$1.52/29.5%
2005/$5.15/$2.48/48.1%
2010/$7.25/$2.72/37.5%


It's harder to quantify, but it looks like generally speaking, we have always paid about 35% of our hourly minimum wage on a gallon of gas. I should probably do each and every year to get a clearer picture.....this one has too many fluctuations to do every 5-years (but I wanted an apples to apples comparo).