Alignment Specs Question

[xnamerxx]

To the AutoX'ers out there what alignment specs are you guys running. My thoughts are to leave the rear in spec to help it rotate a bit and run the front at -1° - -2°. Since I haven't found a way to increase caster its going to say stock.

[CoryM]

Probably not much help but I'm running in HS so set camber to the maximum legal spec (-0.92° iirc). Tire's are wearing reasonably well from autoX so it probably doesn't need much more for a mild car. I haven't fiddled with toe at all.

Someone must make a camber/caster plate? If not they aren't hard to make. Some measurements and a local machine shop should get you sorted. I love lots of caster in RWD cars but have never played with a FWD before.

[Jason@SportsCar]

Originally Posted by xnamerxx

To the AutoX'ers out there what alignment specs are you guys running. My thoughts are to leave the rear in spec to help it rotate a bit and run the front at -1° - -2°. Since I haven't found a way to increase caster its going to say stock.

Caster is not critical, if you are turning the wheel to the point that caster is taking over you are doing it wrong.

I would not even consider less than -2 as a starting point. We have -2.5 on the Bspec car (rules limited) and -3.2 on the Prod car. Rear is stock on all of our cars.

[xnamerxx]

I spoke briefly with the chassis engineer helping me out about increasing caster, he though it should provide a small benefit but it would likely not be noticeable.

Coming from RWD cars with crappy front suspension adding lots of caster was a critical change that had to be made in order to get the car to turn in.

[Jason@SportsCar]

Originally Posted by xnamerxx

I spoke briefly with the chassis engineer helping me out about increasing caster, he though it should provide a small benefit but it would likely not be noticeable.

Coming from RWD cars with crappy front suspension adding lots of caster was a critical change that had to be made in order to get the car to turn in.

Whiteline offers a +/- .5 caster bushing. But I would spend my time and money on other parts.

[Jason@SportsCar]

Originally Posted by CoryM

Probably not much help but I'm running in HS so set camber to the maximum legal spec (-0.92° iirc). Tire's are wearing reasonably well from autoX so it probably doesn't need much more for a mild car. I haven't fiddled with toe at all.

Someone must make a camber/caster plate? If not they aren't hard to make. Some measurements and a local machine shop should get you sorted. I love lots of caster in RWD cars but have never played with a FWD before.

Is .92 all you could get out of the Toyota crash bolts? The rules limit the method and parts you use to gain camber, but the stock class rules do not limit you to max factory spec.

[NJ Drive]

I'll let you know shortly how much front camber can be had with the thinnest factory crash bolts for Yaris. As far as caster goes, there's always a little 'fudge' in the subframe. Loosen all the subframe mounting bolts, push/pull the subframe towards the front of the car, and lock it down. Alignment will be necessary of course if you found that you moved it a lot.

[xnamerxx]

Originally Posted by Jason@SportsCar

Whiteline offers a +/- .5 caster bushing. But I would spend my time and money on other parts.

After a bit longer talk with the engineer his opinion is to not bother adjusting caster since its not going beneficial.

[Blown_xa]

I run -2.7 degrees in the front, -1.1 in the rear, .15 toe in per side on rear ( yes I did adjust rear... With feeler gauges in between hub and beam flange) . Rear is considered to be within factory spec though.

[CoryM]

Originally Posted by Jason@SportsCar

Is .92 all you could get out of the Toyota crash bolts? The rules limit the method and parts you use to gain camber, but the stock class rules do not limit you to max factory spec.

Well, I asked and was told to keep it w/i the stock specs. The 2012 rulebooks reads:

" Both the front and rear suspension may be adjusted through their
designed range of adjustment by use of factory adjustment arrangements
or by taking advantage of inherent manufacturing tolerances.
This encompasses both alignment and ride height parameters if such
adjustments are provided by the stock components and specified by
the factory as normal methods of adjustment. However, no suspension
part may be modified for the purpose of adjustment unless such modification is specifically authorized by the factory shop manual for
non-competition purposes.

Unless I am missing something, the bold part means in stock class one needs to stay with in the stock specifications.

Doesn't really matter as I think I only have one more event in HS. After that it's STF.

Cheers.

[Blown_xa]

If I were you, I would get a smaller diameter bolt ... Say 2mm smaller. Install in top strut pinch flange hole, and set it in. Or shave down the shaft of the oem bolt and do the same. Hehe

[Jason@SportsCar]

Originally Posted by CoryM

Well, I asked and was told to keep it w/i the stock specs. The 2012 rulebooks reads:

" Both the front and rear suspension may be adjusted through their
designed range of adjustment by use of factory adjustment arrangements
or by taking advantage of inherent manufacturing tolerances.
This encompasses both alignment and ride height parameters if such
adjustments are provided by the stock components and specified by
the factory as normal methods of adjustment. However, no suspension
part may be modified for the purpose of adjustment unless such modification is specifically authorized by the factory shop manual for
non-competition purposes.

Unless I am missing something, the bold part means in stock class one needs to stay with in the stock specifications.

Doesn't really matter as I think I only have one more event in HS. After that it's STF.

Cheers.

You should have kept reading :
13.8.E. If offered by the manufacturer for a particular model and year, the
use of shims, special bolts, removal of material to enlarge mounting
holes, and similar methods are allowed and the resulting alignment
settings are permitted even if outside the normal specification or
range of specifications recommended by the manufacturer. If enlarging
mounting holes is specifically authorized but no material removal
limits are specified, material removal is restricted to the amount necessary
to achieve the maximum factory alignment specification.

Order the smallest set of Toyota bolts for the Yaris and max it.

[Blown_xa]

Does the dealership install front camber bolts if need be? We do all the time but I don't work at a dealership lol. I'm just curious, if anyone knows.

[Jason@SportsCar]

Originally Posted by Blown_xa

Does the dealership install front camber bolts if need be? We do all the time but I don't work at a dealership lol. I'm just curious, if anyone knows.

Yes. Although it is likey rare. They would rather find out why the alignment is out of range and replace the part that generates more revenue.

[NJ Drive]

Here are the part#s for those who are interested:

90109-15002, 13.9mm
90109-15003, 13.3mm
90109-15004, 12.4mm

Just keep in mind that while using these bolts, there is a risk that they'll slip out of adjustment under high load conditions.

[xnamerxx]

Thank you. I haven't had much luck in finding correct Part#s.

[CoryM]

Originally Posted by Jason@SportsCar

You should have kept reading :
13.8.E. If offered by the manufacturer for a particular model and year, the
use of shims, special bolts, removal of material to enlarge mounting
holes, and similar methods are allowed and the resulting alignment
settings are permitted even if outside the normal specification or
range of specifications recommended by the manufacturer. If enlarging
mounting holes is specifically authorized but no material removal
limits are specified, material removal is restricted to the amount necessary
to achieve the maximum factory alignment specification.

Order the smallest set of Toyota bolts for the Yaris and max it.

Not sure how I missed that... besides being tired and stupid. Thanks.
I didn't really look too hard at the Stock rules last night to be honest. Was more interested in STF rules. Trying to not spend money on the Yaris (daily driver) and get the project car done instead. Not sure what I would throw at the Yaris besides tires and align. Maybe a seat so I can left foot brake (instead of using my left leg to brace myself against the door). And lighter wheels... and.... arg!

Cheers.

[CoryM]

Originally Posted by xnamerxx

Thank you. I haven't had much luck in finding correct Part#s.

btw, all the bolt P/N are in the service manual if it helps.

Cheers.