In regards to understeer.......

[anonymous user]

Being this is my first FWD car, I have a few questions. In theory, if you stiffen the rear springs only, while leaving the front ones as a softer spring rate,
this should allow your front end to rotate more easily correct?
And if so, why don't more people attempt to do this?

[IllusionX]

That's why people add rear sway bar. To allow less understeer. To my knowledge, there aren't many springs out there that are stiffer in the rear.

[cali yaris]

Sway bar is the best bang for your buck to stiffen the rear only. I haven't found stiffer springs that keep stock ride height, or you could just change out the rear ones.

[scape]

you could always buy two sets (trd's or maybe tanabe df's in back and tanabe nf's in front)... doesn't seem cost effective, but would weigh less than the addition of an antisway bar (and may work out to be cheaper). the back may look dropped a tad though

the question is: how effective is this?

[Tamago]

add camber in the front

play with tire pressures.

install rear swaybar

get a little toe-out in the rear

should fix all your issues :)

[Loren]

Originally Posted by anonymous user

Being this is my first FWD car, I have a few questions. In theory, if you stiffen the rear springs only, while leaving the front ones as a softer spring rate,
this should allow your front end to rotate more easily correct?
And if so, why don't more people attempt to do this?

You've got it backwards, at least part of it.

Stiffening the rear will make the REAR of the car rotate. If the front of the car is "rotating", that's understeer. You don't need to modify anything to get understeer to happen.

Before you touch anything on the suspension, go find some autocross and figure out how to drive it. Learn what understeer really IS before you go trying to cure it.

Why don't more people do it? Because most people don't know how to deal with oversteer, that's why almost every modern car is designed to understeer. It's predictable and safe for the average driver.

[Tamago]

loren, by rotate, he meant turn.

[anonymous user]

Originally Posted by Tamago

loren, by rotate, he meant turn.

Correct.

[anonymous user]

I'm used to oversteer. My current auto-x setup has 27mm front and rear swaybars, as well as r-comp. 255/45/17's. I know how to drive, just can't explain in words sometimes what i'm trying to get across.

I wanted to do set up the yaris similarly, so i installed spc camber bolts in the front struts. I already have a trd RSB and tires. I added an ultra racing room bar to stiffen the chassis up a bit, as well as turboyaris's fabbed endlinks up front. I think the car handles well, turns like a drea, but i need to adjust the camber a bit to regain some straight-line stability.
I agree that oversteer is difficult to control if you have little experience with it, however i feel more confident at the car's (or my) limits with it.

Thanks for your guys comments. I was talking a bit to some honda fit owners about the upcoming auto-x season.

[anonymous user]

.......

[anonymous user]

Come July, we'll see how my car does at our first event of the year.

[supmet]

I'm not sure what it would do to the handling, but I think that would be one aggressive looking yaris.

What about DFs in the front and tigertecs in the rear?

[Tamago]

tire pressures. play with them.

[anonymous user]

Originally Posted by Tamago

tire pressures. play with them.

Yeah, i think it will be key. I'm still learning how to setup the car. Prior to this i just drive the piss out of them.

[Loren]

Coming from RWD to FWD, you need to learn to REALLY modulate the throttle. If you had a high-powered RWD car, you already know how to do this to some extent, but you'll need to tune yourself to doing it at a different time and for different reasons.

Learn to feel what the front of the car is doing. The back end is just following for the most part, it's the front that you need to keep control of. You can feel it when the understeer starts, and you need to understand at that very moment WHAT is causing it.

Did you brake too late and too hard for the turn? (that works exactly the same as RWD) If so, then you'll need to ease up on the brakes AND the steering angle to get the front tires to bite so that you can ease back into your turn.

Are you trying to accelerate through the turn and overpowering the front tires? (this is the common problem when people come to FWD from RWD, or are just plain over-agressive newbs) If so, you need to back off the throttle AND the steering angle to get the front tires to bite so that you can ease back into the turn.

The important thing about power-induced understeer is to RECOGNIZE that you're doing it, and what your natural tendency is when it happens. Almost everybody, when they feel the car start to understeer, their brain says "car isn't turning, must turn wheel more", which is WRONG! If you're already understeering and you turn the wheel MORE, you're not going to solve anything, you're just going to continue to understeer. So, remember that if the front tires aren't gripping, you need to get their grip back... ease off of the throttle AND the steering angle until you feel them hook up, then try to get back into your turn.

FWD autocrossing is a hoot once you get used to it. Especially in something like a Yaris.

[scape]

@ Loren

Well said. I realized that I posted the reply to the OP and it was backwards information, I didn't realize this until I sat in my car and drove it home-- it's only when you physically drive your car, with some enthusiasm and pointers, when you realize what's really going on.

[anonymous user]

Loren,

I'm actually coming from AWD. My goal in the next few years is to practice FWD first (the yaris), then pick up a RWD vehicle to learn that platform. I was thinking mr-2, lotus elise, or 370 z. We'll see. I'm working on FWD for now.

[aeipee13]

AWD can be wacky. loosing grip in AWD? floor it and point the direction you want to go. Basically throw that all out the window when learning FF or FR driving. AWD is like the evil cousin of the two in terms of "what to do."