Didn't buy; awkward shifting?

[MadMax]

This picture puts it in the proper perspective...



The ForFour is more comparable to our beloved Yaris, even more so now that the 5-door is available in the States (although they the most common Yaris I saw in Europe, where the sedan isn’t even offered as far as I know).



And I too took pics of Yarii I saw over there, the most at any one time being three diesels I saw in Huntingdon, UK and three at a dealership in southern Germany.

I have to admit I get excited at the sight of another Yaris, and think the wave thing would be cool as it works with Jeeps and motorcycles. The fact that the Yaris is still rather unique in this country, whereas you see Minis and the new Beetles all over the place. As I’ve stated before, that is one of the reasons I love the car so much; that and the fact that it reminds me so much of the cars I’ve seen and driven in Europe.

Cheers! M2

[otterhere]

I will do the wave, although it will mean hearing that annoying drumming because my window is rolled down... I, too, enjoy driving the "unique"...

As was obvious from my previous vehicle (the Suzuki Swift)...

[tomato]

Originally Posted by ChinoCharles

On the topic of the OP... one of my only gripes about this car is the gearbox. If you have ever driven a manual Honda, you'll realize the gearboxes feel a lot more natural. Not sure why... anyone have an answer for that?

However, the Yaris's gearbox "issue" isn't a Yaris thing... it is a Toyota thing.

Couldn't agree more with you about that gear box.

I have the same gripe. In fact, it's probably the only real big thing that bothers me about the car, looks like I've adapted well to almost everything else. I asked the same question in this forum a few days ago and some posters provided a few ideas, here you go :

The abrupt grabbiness of the clutch will diminish with miles of use. That will help.

You will also notice over time that you are leading more with the throttle than most other manuals require. The drive-by-wire throttle is a bit slow to respond and there is also a tiny bit of slack in pedal movement before the potentiometer in the pedal assembly starts signaling a change.

It bugged me (sometimes a lot) at first but now at 14K miles it's become a non-issue. "

AND

"There is a beakin period since the flywheel is still fresh. Just like there is a breakin period when you do a break job when the rotor is new or freshly resurfaced. So it will feel little different as you start to drive it more. Also you could be used to driving a clutch thats already worn compared to a new one. Every car is going to ahve a different point where the clutch engages.

When i first learned to drive i was taugh to not touch the gas. Remove the clutch pedal til you can feel the point of engagement then let go and whala the car is moving on its on with you revving the gas while letting go of the clutch. Which is a good way to wear out your clutch fast.

That is the only real way to get a good feel of your clutch. Eventually you will have that point memorized and then you can time your shifts precisely. "

and

"Yes, the clutch is weird in the Yaris. It has a very long throw and a very soft touch. It begins to grab VERY low on the pedal, but doesn't fully release until very near the top. It takes some getting used to, as does the electronic throttle and the fact that you can't really hear the engine.

You'll get used to it. "

[SailDesign]

Originally Posted by ChinoCharles

... However, the Yaris's gearbox "issue" isn't a Yaris thing... it is a Toyota thing. Oh well. ...

Charles, that is why you shouldalways come to a Toyota from a VW. The Toyota box is SO much less crunchy...

[MadMax]

Originally Posted by SailDesign

Charles, that is why you shouldalways come to a Toyota from a VW. The Toyota box is SO much less crunchy...

Sorry, but unless you are only talking about the old Beetles; that is

I drove a Passat VR6 with a 5-speed for nine years before getting my Yaris, and that things shifted like a hot knife through butter.

If you want lousy gearboxes, then drive a manual Ford Ranger pickup or a Jeep Wrangler. Now those are crunchy gearboxes!

Cheers! M2

[SailDesign]

Originally Posted by MadMax

Sorry, but unless you are only talking about the old Beetles; that is

Fox - the bastard child of an Audi layout and a VW badge, dreamed up by someone in Brazil with too many spare parts to play with. The gearbox was a 4-speed POS, but all told it was a lovely car once you got used to it
Would get 36 mpg on the highway no trouble, with a full load of kid and college gear. I miss that heap!

[roxy1]

[QUOTE=ChinoCharles;252716]

However, the Yaris's gearbox "issue" isn't a Yaris thing... it is a Toyota thing.QUOTE]

i still think its more of a yaris thinfg. going from my yaris to an '09 corolla, i would say the difference in shift dynamics is dramatically better for the corolla. shorter, smoother throws, friction pt not so close to the floor. the 09 civic coupes that i test drove actually seemd more clunky when shifting. still have the dbw issues, of course.

maybe shifting the yaris for a year made me appreciate more conventional shifting dynamics.

[Kal-El]

After trucks, the worse clutches are, oddly enough, in German cars.

There clutches have ridiculously long throws (twice the length of a Yaris).
They are also to "loose". The springs have very little resistance and is annoying.

This is from my experience with Audi's, VW's, BMW's, ect.

The only issue I have with my clutch is that you have to get used to revving the throttle more in 1st than most manuals to avoid stalling. Otherwise, the clutch itself feels great.

[gaffo]

Originally Posted by roxy84

well, there must be a large number of super skilled 5 speed yaris drivers out there. i just dont think you have to be particularly skilled to get better fuel economy with a manual tranny. when i researched every possible forum discussing the yaris before buying one, the vast majority of drivers getting the real high mileages were driving the 5 speed. i think anyone who has driven a stick most of their life will better the auto fuel economy by more that 1 mpg. my last 2 tanks at 60/40 highway/city were 42.6 mpg and 42.4 mpg, and the car has only 980 miles, so its not even broken in.

fueleconomy.gov users show closer to a 2 mpg disparity between a stick and auto yaris.

agreed, if you bought the stick so you can thrash the little yaris engine or you dont know how to pick the proper shift points for optimal fuel economy, you may not beat the auto tranny mileage.

2 points:

1. you can shift for optimum fuel economy (which you do). This means shifting at lower RPMs.

2. You can shift in the powerband (which i do). This means shifting at higher RPMs.

PotAto - Potato.

You will get 42 mpg, and I consistently get 37 mpg.

..............

Even I with my higher RPM shifting will get better mileage (and alot more reserve power!) than the automatic. I also downshift alot, which conserves fuel, and brakes - though perhaps not the tranny ;-/.

[gaffo]

Originally Posted by tomato

Great thread, you guys! Also served to confirm my suspicions that the Yaris clutch takes some getting used to.

The night I drove my Yaris MT back from the dealership, I almost thought I had made a huge mistake!! That clutch was driving me absolutely crazy, couldn't downshift to second to take a turn on the freeway (sigh) !!! I think I'm going to remember that fright for a WHILE!!

Now that I see other peole describe the same problems, I do feel better (I'm in an urban situation, so as you can imagine, mastering the clutch fast is very important!

BTW, I, too have been driving many MT cars before, usually Honda's (last one was a fast CRX), but also European cars with MT, so it's a little shocking and embarassing to be stalling on First like a newbie!

(BTW, my apologies for reopening an old thread. Not sure what the protocol is around here. Would you rather have repeat threads of continuing old threads?)

former TR7 5speeder here. and 4speeder ford fiesta before that..........

I STILL STALL on 1st on occasion - once every couple of months or so. Just something about that damn clutch.

I know what it is: it engages to high up, and when it engages it friction zone is too damn narrow - thus you stall out!

once you get to 2nd gear its easier to shift up or down. getting into 1st is the challenge!! lol.

I also notice reverse is hard to literally get the shifter into.

one deals with it.

[tomato]

Originally Posted by gaffo

former TR7 5speeder here. and 4speeder ford fiesta before that..........

I STILL STALL on 1st on occasion - once every couple of months or so. Just something about that damn clutch.

I know what it is: it engages to high up, and when it engages it friction zone is too damn narrow - thus you stall out!

once you get to 2nd gear its easier to shift up or down. getting into 1st is the challenge!! lol.

I also notice reverse is hard to literally get the shifter into.

one deals with it.

I agree!! I'm slowly getting used to it, though, but find that I have to push on the gas pedal a little more than usual to keep the car from stalling on 1st when I'm traffic. Oh well. Like you said, one deals with it!

[gaffo]

Originally Posted by tomato

Are you talking to me? Well, I didn't know what to expect, honestly. I'm not a mechanic, I just drive the cars, and I was trained to shift gears by listening to the engine, so you see, the Yaris is a new experience for me because the engine is quiet at low speed and the clutch doesn't engage where I'm used to. I have been driving sticks for a lot of years, but this car is clearly different.

Understand, I'm not trashing the car, just looking for the solution to the clutch "problem" (looks like I'm not the only one having to go through that so I think it's useful to mention it).

People mentioned something like installing a Short Shift Kit? Is that a good idea? And by the way, if you do a modification like that, does that void the warranty on the car? Or is it better to just wait until you get used to it?

(Only stalled once this morning, so I guess I'm making progress, uh? )

yes - I found the engine too damn quite to shift by sound (unlike my old Tr7) - there is not tachometer (DUMB DUMB DUMB TOYOTA!!!).

I have to use my speedometer (after verifying RPMs from a nonUS Yaris hatchbacker here on these forums). I shift within 2200 rpms - 3500 rpms.

so:

1st 1-17 mph
2nd 17-36 mph
3rd 36-50 mph
4th 50-65 mph
5th 65-90 mph

not gone over 90 yet.

these are approximate, but the numbers have served me well for these last 1.5 yrs in regard to shifting.


this is shifting in the power band - not for optimum gas mileage. I average 37 mpg combined.

[gaffo]

Originally Posted by Rick

Tomato,

The abrupt grabbiness of the clutch will diminish with miles of use. That will help.

You will also notice over time that you are leading more with the throttle than most other manuals require. The drive-by-wire throttle is a bit slow to respond and there is also a tiny bit of slack in pedal movement before the potentiometer in the pedal assembly starts signaling a change.

It bugged me (sometimes a lot) at first but now at 14K miles it's become a non-issue.

You will adapt.

the delay is pretty bad. nto sure why though. you would think there could be a cheap solution like a faster circuit for something.

you can really "feel"/"hear" the delay when you put the car in neutral and gun it. It takes a good 1/8th of a second after pressing the pedel before the engine even gets the signal to rev!!!

it is a little anoying, but like in all things one gets used to it and compensates for it in daily driving.

I do consider this a true to life design flaw and protentially dangerious in that it lessens ones full control over the car in split second reaction time environments (those being the deadly kind). toyota needs to fix this problem for the newer cars - pronto.

[gaffo]

Originally Posted by MadMax

Here ya go...


(Click on thumbnail for full-sized pic)

They are really great city cars, and very popular in Europe (there used to be a huge glass tower full of them outside of Brussels...we would pass it all the time); but I am not sure it would suite my needs and even though there are a few of them running around San Antonio, they just don't look like they fit in here!

I love my Yaris, and saw another BSP LB at a nearby church this afternoon that was very similar except for slightly different rims. I love seeing other Yarii running around, and even better seeing ones that have been modified a bit. I tend to wave, a carryover from when I drive my Jeep. A few Yaris drivers have returned the wave, maybe it is something we can get going!

Cheers! M2

I'd love a microcar!! - just not that bloated heavy slow overpriced non-shiftable "SMART" car.

an IQ, or KA, or fiat 500, chatent Speedino, or the three-wheeler Tango Trike.

I love small, and don't worry about dying. We all die someday. I'd prefer to enjoy the ride and not be a nervous nelly about it.

Cancer or heart or falling space rock will kill me if the road don't - so just be a good defensive driver and enjoy the trip!!!

- bring the small cars over here dammit!

[otterhere]

Agreed, gaffo. Sometimes I think Americans think if they just do x, y, and z (get those full-body CAT scans, eat 50 vitamins a day, and drive a Hummer) they will never die...

[tomato]

Originally Posted by gaffo

I'd love a microcar!!

- bring the small cars over here dammit!

:c lap:

:c lap:

[upyaris]

I laugh at people who bought the Smart. I run rings around them on the freeway and in the city. I also laugh when they are putting premium gas in their tanks while I put regular. The gas mileage in the Smart isn't all that great, especially since you can't do 80 without feeling like your engine is burning up.

Sorry, but the Smart isn't Smart. I see them for sale all the time because of the lack of power and people not realizing it used premium when they bought it. I also believe 2 seaters are for sports cars and fun cars, not cars that tip over.

[otterhere]

upyaris... cute name!