Debunking fuel conservation myths...

[nmgolfer]

Originally Posted by jcemitte

personally i think the prius is the most backward P.O.S. ever (not that build quality is bad after all it is a toyota) but they mine the nickle for the batteries in canada then ship it the the UK where they treat it and make it into a foamy type of consistancy and then ship it again to toyota city, japan and then import them all over creation. hows that for a carbon foot print.

The Prius/hybrids will come into their own when people can plug them in at night and drive the first 60 on DC or better yet... have an all electric 200 mile capable city car and rent a long distance FE Yaris when necessary. Of course this future is predicated on electricity costs not being jacked up to match liquid fuel due to newly renamed/rebranded tax and cap money grabbing schemes.

[bkrownd]

Future electricity costs will be jacked up but it will have little to do with taxes. Fossil fuel costs will increase, and replacing fossil fuels with more sensible energy generation methods will be even more expensive. The era of artificially cheap energy will soon come to an end, so get ready for it.

[jcemitte]

@nmgolfer...



did anyone see my recant of aforementioned, above, ^^^, "backward P.O.S." comment?

[Kal-El]

Originally Posted by bkrownd

Future electricity costs will be jacked up but it will have little to do with taxes. Fossil fuel costs will increase, and replacing fossil fuels with more sensible energy generation methods will be even more expensive. The era of artificially cheap energy will soon come to an end, so get ready for it.

There's more than enough fossil fuels to last another century and probably a lot longer even without conservation. Don't let environmentalists tell you different.

If Obama passes Cap and Trade, then yeah, taxes will be the bulk of cost. Direct quote from Obama: " Under my plan of a cap and trade system, electric rates will necessarily sky rocket".

Thanks Mr. President.

[nmgolfer]

Originally Posted by Kal-El

There's more than enough fossil fuels to last another century and probably a lot longer even without conservation. Don't let environmentalists tell you different.

If Obama passes Cap and Trade, then yeah, taxes will be the bulk of cost. Direct quote from Obama: " Under my plan of a cap and trade system, electric rates will necessarily sky rocket".

Thanks Mr. President.

We must be patient with the cool-aide drinkers. They've been propagandized all of their short lives and few if any have the technical background to sort the wheat from the chafe when it comes to science climate or any other. No bones about it, it is a run of the mill concentration of power, wealth extraction scheme nothing more (cap and tax that is or what ever the heck they try to re-brand it as this next time).

[bkrownd]

Originally Posted by Kal-El

There's more than enough fossil fuels to last another century and probably a lot longer even without conservation. Don't let environmentalists tell you different.

You don't get my drift. The cost will go up because the pollution and damage that fossil fuels cause won't be tolerated in such volumes in the future. The supply will be diminished, and the price will rise. There will be consumption/emissions taxes, as well. Just like cigarette taxes, it should help us kick a bad habit. It's about time! Don't let the irresponsible "conservatives" tell you different.

[STC]

Originally Posted by bkrownd

Don't let the irresponsible "conservatives" tell you different.

Hi bkrownd, You forgot to place the "neo" in front of the "conservatives". Let me fix for you...

Don't let the irresponsible "neo-conservatives" tell you different.

Much better...

[BailOut]

Originally Posted by Kal-El

There's more than enough fossil fuels to last another century and probably a lot longer even without conservation. Don't let environmentalists tell you different.

I have no idea where you get your information from but every single piece of data - not supposition but data - that I have ever found tells a much different, darker story. The best analysts in the world, from Royal Dutch Shell to Saudi ARAMCO to other major players in the industry, all agree on 2 things:

1) There is, at most, 40 to 50 years of affordable oil left if we drill and pump every single drop. Affordable means that even though there will still be some oil left it will be so hard to get to and so difficult to refine and offer such little usable return that it will not be cost effective to do so.

2) That we have achieved Peak Oil, meaning that no more oil will ever be pumped out of the Earth per day than is being pumped right now. This means that there is a known limited time supply, and 3 big groups are soon to be competing for it economically: The U.S., China and India. The only things holding gasoline at its current low price are our military and clandestine operations throughout the Middle East and other places, and that neither China nor India has enough cars on the road yet to have large requirements (which will soon change, first in China).

When you combine this information with the fact that we have just 40-70 years left of other resources such as aluminum and steel, and that the unpolluted fresh water sources that remain simply cannot sustain the Earth's human population for very long, you see that the future is indeed fraught with challenges. We can plan now and face these challenges head on with knowledge, sacrifice and solidarity, or we can race to the finish and crash and burn as we hit the wall.

[bkrownd]

Originally Posted by STC

Hi bkrownd, You forgot to place the "neo" in front of the "conservatives". Let me fix for you...

Don't let the irresponsible "neo-conservatives" tell you different.

Much better...

Oooh. Are those somewhere between the Dittoheads and the Palinites? I can never keep track of all these clubs... I am sad nobody took my stinky bait.

[STC]

Originally Posted by bkrownd

Oooh. Are those somewhere between the Dittoheads and the Palinites? I can never keep track of all these clubs... I am sad nobody took my stinky bait.

Nah! The neocons are the "new" neanderthals walking the earth...

Neocons drive me nuts...

BTW... I'm a conservative with huge libertarian beliefs... You could say a Conservative Libertarian>
http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...%20Libertarian

[daf62757]

Originally Posted by BailOut

I have no idea where you get your information from but every single piece of data - not supposition but data - that I have ever found tells a much different, darker story. The best analysts in the world, from Royal Dutch Shell to Saudi ARAMCO to other major players in the industry, all agree on 2 things:

1) There is, at most, 40 to 50 years of affordable oil left if we drill and pump every single drop. Affordable means that even though there will still be some oil left it will be so hard to get to and so difficult to refine and offer such little usable return that it will not be cost effective to do so.

2) That we have achieved Peak Oil, meaning that no more oil will ever be pumped out of the Earth per day than is being pumped right now. This means that there is a known limited time supply, and 3 big groups are soon to be competing for it economically: The U.S., China and India. The only things holding gasoline at its current low price are our military and clandestine operations throughout the Middle East and other places, and that neither China nor India has enough cars on the road yet to have large requirements (which will soon change, first in China).

When you combine this information with the fact that we have just 40-70 years left of other resources such as aluminum and steel, and that the unpolluted fresh water sources that remain simply cannot sustain the Earth's human population for very long, you see that the future is indeed fraught with challenges. We can plan now and face these challenges head on with knowledge, sacrifice and solidarity, or we can race to the finish and crash and burn as we hit the wall.

I heard the same crap back in the 70s. Wasn't true then and I doubt its true now.

[PhotoDu.de]

Originally Posted by daf62757

I heard the same crap back in the 70s. Wasn't true then and I doubt its true now.

Could you and BailOut cite your sources?

[why?]

oh joy, another one of these discussions. Kinda worthless since no one will change their minds unlike the gentleman that originally came up with the dino oil theory. About 5 years later he decided oil was a biproduct of the planets processes.

And citing sources? This is the net, we don't do weird stuff like that.

Abiotic fuel is what you want to look up.

Abiotic Oil and Gas: A Theory That Refuses To Vanish

This is a great article.

To summarize it: westerners are morons and care only about who is paying them. Western science has been dead for over 50 years because of this.

[PhotoDu.de]

This is a blog post off a business news website. It's some guys opinion and not an objective look that the subject.
If oil is abiotic what evidence is there that it is being make enough to sustain current/future demand?
Even if we have an unlimited supply of oil, we have to deal with the carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases made from burning petroleum products.
Finally, why would a company hide the fact that they have an unlimited source of income from their investors?

[jambo101]

Originally Posted by PhotoDu.de

This is a blog post off a business news website. It's some guys opinion and not an objective look that the subject.
If oil is abiotic what evidence is there that it is being make enough to sustain current/future demand?

Its more than some guys opinion its a scientific theory just like the theory that 90 million+ barrels of oil the world uses every day comes from decayed organic matter. Of course the theory of self sustaining oil reserves is widely debunked, can you imagine how much money big oil business would lose if the Abiotic theory were true?

Another link
http://mondovista.com/abioticoilx.html

[nmgolfer]

But you cannot make it drink...

Curious people research things for themselves. There is a ton of material on the web about the true origins of petroleum on planet earth and is ain't dead dinosaurs. Carbon is one of the four most abundant elements in the Universe. Carbon dioxide is NOT a polutant... in fact it is a requirement of life on planet Earth. Carbon dioxide lags global warming not leads it. These are just a few of the thing the the curious critical thinkers learn and the lemming will never ever know.

You must as yourself: Cui Bono... who benefits. Who benefits from convincing the simple minded lemmings that petroleum is derived from dead dinosaurs. Who benefits from controlling carbon and in turn life itself on planet earth? Who benefits when a ridiculous idea that a naturally occurring trace molecule of the air we breath CO2 is a pollutant? I'll give you a hint... it sure as heck is not the lemmings. Wake up... there is a larger agenda afoot, as there has always been from time immemorial.

If you're truly curious, not just trolling I suggest you read some of the articles by Chris Landau, a geologist, who knows exactly how petroleum is made inside the earths crust. http://www.opednews.com/author/author47248.html The Russians have known since 1950's and are one of the largest producers with their deep wells because of it. People can remain ignorant "sheeple" and like lemmings drop to their deaths or they can try critical thinking for themselves

Originally Posted by PhotoDu.de

This is a blog post off a business news website. It's some guys opinion and not an objective look that the subject.
If oil is abiotic what evidence is there that it is being make enough to sustain current/future demand?
Even if we have an unlimited supply of oil, we have to deal with the carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases made from burning petroleum products.
Finally, why would a company hide the fact that they have an unlimited source of income from their investors?

[nmgolfer]

Originally Posted by PK198105

Because it justifies the price hikes and creates doubt which then influences the markets, wake up people this is all a big scam (gas prices). This is how a few control the many

Bingo... exactly. The entire "world order" is built around petrol-dollar control. Both world wars were made to happen because of it. A really excellent book on this not widely known true history of oil is: A Century of War: Anglo-American Oil Politics and the New World Order by William Engdahl. Here in the states gas price is controlled by limiting refining.

http://www.amazon.com/Century-War-An.../dp/074532309X

[PhotoDu.de]

Originally Posted by PK198105

Because it justifies the price hikes and creates doubt which then influences the markets, wake up people this is all a big scam (gas prices). This is how a few control the many

I think they would make more from an unlimited supply and people not conserving it.