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Old 05-02-2007, 10:43 AM   #1
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Yaris Spanks Hybrids in Environmentally Friendliness in Dust to Dust report

http://cnwmr.com/nss-folder/automotiveenergy/

Scroll down to row 412 in the Cost per mile by segment by model and sorts.xls and start reading.

Fascinating stuff!
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Old 05-02-2007, 12:13 PM   #2
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So why cant i drive in the high occupancy vehicle (HOV) lane like the Prius?
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Old 05-02-2007, 01:06 PM   #3
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You have to be careful what information you spread. Art Spinella (CNW Marketing Research - the site you linked to) has been debunked in so many ways and from so many sources that it's surprising he hasn't pulled this "data" yet. He just continues to embarrass himself by keeping it up there, and the media just keep parroting it (yet another example of how the modern media doesn't bother to research anything themselves).

Here are a few debunking examples:

http://www.thecarconnection.com/Auto...96.A12220.html

http://priuschat.com/index.php?showtopic=26909
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Old 05-02-2007, 02:11 PM   #4
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Consider this spanking then...

You would save about $2700.00 in gas over a Yaris after driving a Prius 100,000 miles.

Prius = 60 city and 51 hwy Combined is 55 MPG
Yaris = 34 city and 39 hwy Combined is 36 MPG

So to drive 100000 miles at $3.00 per gal:
Prius = 100000 / 55 = 1,900 gallons X 3.00 = $5700.00
Yaris = 100000 / 36 = 2,800 gallons X 3.00 = $8400.00

A savings of $2700.00 total to drive 100000 miles.

But the Prius cost at least $10,000.00 more. Hmmm...

So basically to go 100,000 miles costs a "Base Model Prius" driver $25,000 for the car and $5,700.00 in gas = $30,700.00
A "Maxed Out Yaris" costs $15,000.00 for the car and $8,400 in gas = $23,400.00
A difference of $7,300.00 or 2,433 gallons of gas.

The Yaris could drive an extra 3.6 times around the world with the money a Yaris would save! (2433 X 36MPG = 87588 / 24000 = 3.6 times around the world)

Or, you would need to drive that Prius for around 20 more years at 10,000 miles a year to break even with the Yaris.

Prius = 300000 miles/55mpg = 5454 gallons X $3.00 = $16362 + $25000 = $41,362.00

Yaris = 300000 miles/36mpg = 8333 gallons X 3.00 = $25000 + $15000 = $40,000.00

Don't forget hybrid battery replacement costs!

Oh Snap!!

Advantage Yaris!


This is an excerpt from an email to a friend about a Prius vs a Yaris in saving money after he made the statement "If you want to save money you should have bought a Prius."
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Last edited by nsmitchell; 05-02-2007 at 03:25 PM.
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Old 05-02-2007, 02:37 PM   #5
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I would love for someone to plug this stuff in a spreadsheet and work the numbers. I was using the old MPG figures. And no real world figures. Too lazy and I'm not an Excel buff. hehe
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Old 05-02-2007, 02:53 PM   #6
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Don't forget you get a tax break when you purchase a hybrid. Not sure it's total effect though.
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Old 05-02-2007, 03:27 PM   #7
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This whole thread is moot. Like most wacky right wing chicanery, the post is titled "Yaris Spanks Hybrids in Environmentally Friendliness" and then goes on to talk about how much it costs to run per mile while admitting that the prius burns less gas.

The prius is more carbon friendly--whilest being more expensive. People who buy priuses are clearly more interested in its carbon footprint rather than how much it costs to run. If they have the money for that, I say more power to them.

All the same, the logic of the post has nothing to do with its headline. It should have been titled "Yaris Spanks Hybrids in cheapness per mile", but then, who would reply to such an obvious statement.
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Old 05-02-2007, 03:33 PM   #8
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I have yet to see any proof that the report is flawed. Even the publications that don't fully agree with it can't say all of it is bad data. I'm quite sure the Prius owners will instantly get red faced with anger when they read the report, so posting stuff from PriusChat doesn't prove anything.
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Old 05-02-2007, 03:45 PM   #9
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http://hardware.slashdot.org/article...58204&from=rss

Throughly hashed out on Slashdot
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Old 05-02-2007, 03:59 PM   #10
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I think what I'm seeing here is "Wallet-friendliness", not necessarily "Environmental-friendliness". The total amount spent overall doesn't reflect the amount of fuel burned, which is ultimately where the eco-friendly part comes in.

However, both are good in my book!

~YR
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Old 05-02-2007, 04:16 PM   #11
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Here is a good read. http://www.reason.org/commentaries/d...20060719.shtml

Don't dismiss the results so quickly. What seems to be a joke might actually have the ring of truth.

These ratings seem to correlate with the complexity of the car, as well as resources used. It is a very granular study.
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Old 05-02-2007, 04:25 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nsmitchell View Post
Here is a good read. http://www.reason.org/commentaries/d...20060719.shtml

Don't dismiss the results so quickly. What seems to be a joke might actually have the ring of truth.

These ratings seem to correlate with the complexity of the car, as well as resources used. It is a very granular study.
Real Numbers
http://newsdesk.inl.gov/press_releas...id_vehicle.htm
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Old 05-02-2007, 04:48 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flint_mica_manual View Post
That report only calculates in maintenance, not initial energy spent to produce the vehicle.

~YR
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Old 05-02-2007, 05:01 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Yaris Revenge View Post
That report only calculates in maintenance, not initial energy spent to produce the vehicle.

~YR
Doesn't matter, the bogus CNW Marketing Research site, and the circular "reason" site that uses it for reference lists the prius at 100,000 mile lifespan -- which makes no sense.
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Old 05-02-2007, 09:06 PM   #15
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Excerpt from the report (page 47):

One thing is clear. The typical hybrid small vehicle such as the Prius is driven far fewer miles
each year than a comparably sized budget car. And for good reason. Like Upper Premium Sports
cars, these are generally secondary vehicles in a household OR they are driven in restricted or
short range environments such as college campuses or retirement neighborhoods. Clearly both of
those are generalizations and there are exceptions, but nonetheless this is a reality of automotive
use.
Based on the average mileage and life expectancy, there is a wide range of years that certain
models will be on the road before being scrapped. This ranges from a low of 10 years to as much
as 20-plus years. As segments, the lowest number of years are Hybrid models as a group (12.1
years) while the highest segment is Premium SUVs such as the Range Rover and Hummer H2
(22.2 years).
End of Excerpt:

Please read page 48 of the report. It explains things a bit better.

Sometimes statistics aren't pretty and sometimes they expose weaknesses.

Read some Freakonomics for some real eye openers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freakonomics
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Old 05-02-2007, 09:42 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flint_mica_manual View Post
Doesn't matter, the bogus CNW Marketing Research site, and the circular "reason" site that uses it for reference lists the prius at 100,000 mile lifespan -- which makes no sense.
You are just proving the point that you didn't take any time to READ THE REPORT. It goes into great detail about the much typed about but seldom read lifespans of the vehicles, and their methodology of how they came about. I realize other sites are quick to judge, but they could have done exactly what you did. Knee jerk reaction.
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Old 05-02-2007, 10:37 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nsmitchell View Post
One thing is clear. The typical hybrid small vehicle such as the Prius is driven far fewer miles each year than a comparably sized budget car. And for good reason. Like Upper Premium Sports cars, these are generally secondary vehicles in a household OR they are driven in restricted or short range environments such as college campuses or retirement neighborhoods.
This is complete, utter, total, shameful, fairyland, unicorn-shat crap. The (for example) Prius is most commonly a household's main vehicle, and as you can read on just about any hybrid site on the Net most folks stop driving their secondary cars pretty much altogether in favor of their hybrid.


Quote:
As segments, the lowest number of years are Hybrid models as a group (12.1years) while the highest segment is Premium SUVs such as the Range Rover and Hummer H2
This is complete, utter, total, shameful, fairyland, unicorn-shat crap. For one thing hybrids haven't even been on the road but for 10 years now in Japan, and for just 6 years in the rest of the world, so it is impossible to know that folks will be dumping them at the 12 year point. Additionally, even 1st generation hybrids like the Insight and Prius I tend to sell for exactly as much as they were bought for, even at a second resale, which means they are well in demand and have expected longevity. Let's also not forget that the typical Toyota car is good for at least 300,000 miles and the typical Honda is good for at least 200,000. It will take longer than 12 years for most folks to hit those mileage counts. Conversely the average American car is an 80,000 mile disposable vehicle. Keeping anything GMC or the others have built on the road for 20 years takes so much repair, maintenance, upgrades, etc. that to not take that into account in the "study" (I use the term quite loosely) is a crime.



Again, please be careful what information you spread. There is enough FUD, disinformation, misdirection and other generally bad information in the world without any of us adding to it or propagating it.
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Old 05-03-2007, 02:22 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Yaris Revenge View Post
I think what I'm seeing here is "Wallet-friendliness", not necessarily "Environmental-friendliness". The total amount spent overall doesn't reflect the amount of fuel burned, which is ultimately where the eco-friendly part comes in.

However, both are good in my book!

~YR
+1
there are three priuses (prii??) in my family (1 blood, 2 in-laws), and not a single one of them bought it for its super low emissions or its eco-friendliness. they simply bought it because the sticker said 60 mpg city, and they were sold. i THINK the majority of people buying the prius are in it for the gas savings and mpg, more so than the ecological factors. this would explain the record sales of the prius coinciding when gas prices were at record highs. when we bought our yaris, and started sharing our mpg experience, 2 out of the 3 owners immediately began getting second thought on their prius purchase. the 3rd was happy with the prius since the prius is ridiculously roomy inside, and they need the cargo space. they all use their prius as the primary cars, since the mpg + utility factor trump any reason to use another car. we're perfectly happy with our yaris, but would love to see more economically viable (aka CHEAPER!) hybrid technology incorporated into more cars...

--B
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