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05-03-2007, 08:48 AM | #19 | |
GIGA...DRILL...BREAKER!!!
Drives: Lagann. ;P Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: My own little world.
Posts: 717
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Quote:
However, I have to disagree with your American "80,000 mile disposable vehicle" comment. Toyotas may be good for 300k miles, but I've certainly never seen one. How many 1970-1980 model Japanese cars do you see running around out there? Not nearly as many as you do American cars. I'm not saying one's better than the other, I'm just saying that people tend to hang on to the American cars longer (why I can't say), thus ultimately the American cars are the ones racking up the higher mileages. ~YR
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Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet. |
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05-03-2007, 09:14 AM | #20 | |
Drives: S Sedan Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Midwest
Posts: 65
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05-03-2007, 05:29 PM | #21 |
Drives: LB-Auto-PWR-ABS-Cruise-Springs Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 1,065
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I see no proof that the Prius lasts as long as some may think ON AVERAGE. Sure some Priuses may last over that mileage. For example, did you know that leaving a Prius to sit without driving it for over two weeks will void the warranty on the battery? Well now! http://www.consumeraffairs.com/autom...s_battery.html. Only hybrids will have this issue. How about all the extra electronics needed for the hybrid system. Can a mechanic fix all that stuff if it gets gremlins? Not really. Mostly, the car is disposable. The cost to fix it may cost more than the car is worth. All these things are taken into account. Believe me, I was sceptical too, until I READ THE REPORT. It explains about why the numbers seem out of whack. "right-wing shill"?? How come, if they were trying to boost GM sales or something, they would list the xB as the least impact? Doesn't that strike anyone as odd. And the highest impact vehicles are the most COMPLEX, not necessarily the most expensive, or gas guzzling, or sipping for that matter. Come on folks, it's not black and white. The Earth is round, not flat like most people believed before proven otherwise. Sometimes things aren't as simple as they seem at first glance.
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Other car is a 2005 Mustang Convertible 4.0L V6 Manual - Legend Lime Get YarAss in gear! RIP - Casey Tatum |
05-03-2007, 05:37 PM | #22 | |
Drives: 2005 Scion xB Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The Black Hills of South Dakota
Posts: 1,059
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Maybe people hold onto their American cars beceause they are worth nothing with over 100,000 miles. No resale = keep it... |
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05-03-2007, 06:39 PM | #23 |
It's the illusion you see
Drives: 07 Yaris Sedan Aero Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Brossard, QC
Posts: 3,888
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for traveling short distances... ppl have also modified their prius to plug-in charge the vehicule every night.
some ppl have managed to get over 250 USMPG!!! search plug in hybrid on google. Though, it would be a really bad idea if your home electricity is charcoal or oil powered... |
05-03-2007, 10:42 PM | #24 |
Drives: NA Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: NA
Posts: 27
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Uh... so how do these generalizations apply to the individual driver? These "reports" say what?
btw - nsmitchell... most people assume things to be false until proven to be true... it isn't up to other ppl to demonstrate that the report is wrong - but up to the authors to demonstrate that its true. Assumptions made about consumer/driver habits without data = baseless assumptions. |
05-03-2007, 10:49 PM | #25 | |
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This is why everyone tends to unload their cars before 100k, or swap it for a beater... yet if you have a toyota/etc you just keep on chuggin, you know it'll last another 100k without flinching. btw by end cost... I'm sure a used, POS but good mechanical condition metro would lay the smack down on any hybrid or yaris :) |
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05-03-2007, 11:41 PM | #26 |
Drives: um not a yaris but hopefully Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Wichita ks
Posts: 207
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It is great everyone is talking about mpg and the environment. I cant get approved for a car so I am getting a $250 83 pontiac grand prix than when I get a job in the town I live I will hopefully end up putting in a 455 with a few mods. It will maby get 18mpg and the tires I go through alone will create more bad stuff than the yaris motor does.
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05-04-2007, 12:15 AM | #27 | |
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05-04-2007, 12:25 AM | #28 |
Drives: um not a yaris but hopefully Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Wichita ks
Posts: 207
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no I had one before and this was my plan with that one. I will probley end up getting a motor cycle and eather sell the pontiac or keep it for a toy. I would rather have a mustang or a monte carlo ss or somehting like that. Shoot I would love a talon tsi or a z car but right now I cant seem to get anything. I just like the thought of a 300hp big motored car right now. Hell or I will keep it and get a small truck I could have a use for a truck.
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05-04-2007, 07:31 AM | #29 |
If you are plugging in a Prius to the wall at night....
then 250 mpg means you burn less gas, but you are burning more coal from the power plant to charge it up. If we could plug our cars in and be totally electric and get infinite miles per gallon of gas (because we don't burn any) we would still be burning coal. Coal is around 55% of power production in the u.s. Nuclear is around 21% Natural gas is ? "renewables" are ? nothing is free to be eco friendly, we should just kill ourselves.
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DRL removed rear debadged Tachometer installed Mudguards installed Rear Bumper Guard installed FUTURE = Fog Lights, arm rest, RS spoiler, cruise, black 17" wheels |
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05-04-2007, 08:06 AM | #30 | |
Drives: S Sedan Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Midwest
Posts: 65
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Electric motors have no such problems, and they have more power -- more efficiently put to the wheels. Look at the Honda Incite. The first one came out about 10 years ago. Where are all the internet reports about people being ticked off because the batteries died? Or because the drive train failed? Period. That report you cite makes claims that are not verified because they don't even disclose their methodology. And you want someone to "prove" it wrong. That's right. Toyota became the world's largest automotive company by investing in wasteful technologies. If only they could get a business model as good as Hummer's! It's not like hybrid technology is old either. Just because it's new and novel in the automotive world, doesn't mean it's an unproven technology. Have you ever seen a diesel train? Around here they are big black Norfolk Southern monsters that haul thousands of Toyota Tundras out of Princeton. Believe it or not, those trains are ELECTRIC. The diesel engines are just there to run the generators that power those huge electric engines that pull all the weight. Tho, I dunno, maybe you could find a study of how much more complicated and wasteful they are compared to a coal fired steam engine. We got rid of those in favor of these "new fangled" disposable diesel electric hybrid trains. Freaking luddite. [rant mode off] Happy Friday! Last edited by flint_mica_manual; 05-04-2007 at 08:45 AM. |
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05-04-2007, 09:09 AM | #31 | ||
GIGA...DRILL...BREAKER!!!
Drives: Lagann. ;P Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: My own little world.
Posts: 717
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Quote:
Quote:
~YR
__________________
Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet. |
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05-04-2007, 01:35 PM | #32 | |
Engineer/Artist/House-Dad
Drives: 2006 Toyota Sienna XLE Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: California
Posts: 419
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--B
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His: 2006 Toyota Sienna XLE Arctic Frost Pearl, FC Package, 2007 Solara Nav unit, Spoiler, Running Boards & Auto-dimming rear mirror Hers: 2007 Toyota Yaris LB Black Sand Pearl, Auto, Power Package, Side Airbags, VIP security, USDM center armrest, and accessory 7 spoke 15" alloy wheels |
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05-04-2007, 03:26 PM | #33 | |
Drives: S Sedan Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Midwest
Posts: 65
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Anyone wants to dispute that, then I want a picture of an odometer. I've seen plenty of old American cars, and they all have low miles and eventually end up in demolition derbies. |
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05-04-2007, 03:46 PM | #34 | |
Engineer/Artist/House-Dad
Drives: 2006 Toyota Sienna XLE Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: California
Posts: 419
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Quote:
--B
__________________
His: 2006 Toyota Sienna XLE Arctic Frost Pearl, FC Package, 2007 Solara Nav unit, Spoiler, Running Boards & Auto-dimming rear mirror Hers: 2007 Toyota Yaris LB Black Sand Pearl, Auto, Power Package, Side Airbags, VIP security, USDM center armrest, and accessory 7 spoke 15" alloy wheels |
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05-04-2007, 04:35 PM | #35 | |
Drives: LB-Auto-PWR-ABS-Cruise-Springs Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 1,065
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Quote:
__________________
Other car is a 2005 Mustang Convertible 4.0L V6 Manual - Legend Lime Get YarAss in gear! RIP - Casey Tatum |
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05-06-2007, 05:11 PM | #36 | |
Drives: S Sedan Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Midwest
Posts: 65
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Quote:
I have searched high and low to find info about this supposed story, and the only thing out there is the original study, right-wing sites linking to the original article (with cutesy latte-drinking-hollywood-loving-liberal-pinko-status-symbol comments from right wing filth to boot), and a bunch of forums talking about the original study. Where is the peer review? How did they get their data? Who PAID for this “study”? NOBODY freaking knows. These are the hybrids that are or have been on the market for the last 20 years. Where is the data for these cars? WHY is the Toyota singled out in this “study”? I, quite honestly, am done “debating” this nonsense. Nothing I can say will change your mind, and I’m not going to change my mind until I see something other than flame wars and ONE dubious “study” that is ridiculous in its conclusions. 1989 Audi 300 Duo 1994 Audi 80 Duo 1996 AC Propulsion tzero (primarily electric vehicle; 80 mile PbA, 300 mile Li-ion(2003) EV-mode) 1997 Toyota Prius (first commercially mass-produced and marketed hybrid automobile) Japanese market only 1997 Audi A4 Duo (Audi became the first manufacturer in Europe to mass produce a hybrid vehicle. Their hybrid vehicle is powered by a 66 kW 1.9-litre TDI-Engine and a 21 kW electric motor) 1999 Honda Insight 2000 model [edit] 2000s 2000 Toyota Estima hybrid (Japanese market only) 2000 Toyota Prius US market 2002? Mazda Demio e-4WD (Japanese market only, used for traction assistance) 2002 New Flyer DE60LF (diesel-electric hybrid articulated bus) 2002 Dyna Diesel Hybrid (Japan only, Diesel Hybrid) 2002 Honda Civic Hybrid 2003 model [edit] 2003 Renault Kangoo (plug-in hybrid electric vehicle) Suzuki Twin Toyota Alphard Hybrid Toyota Prius (5 seat midsize) 2004 model year, second generation Hybrid Synergy Drive [edit] 2004 Honda Accord Hybrid 2005 model Ford Escape Hybrid 2005 model (released in late summer 2004) General Motors city bus [edit] 2005 Chevrolet Silverado/GMC Sierra Hybrid 2006 model, Mild hybrid Honda Civic Hybrid 2006 model, second generation Lexus RX 400h 2006 model year, second generation Hybrid Synergy Drive Mercury Mariner hybrid Toyota Kluger/Highlander Hybrid 2006 model [edit] 2006 Lexus GS 450h 2007 model, second generation Hybrid Synergy Drive Saturn VUE Green Line 2007 model, Mild hybrid Toyota Camry Hybrid 2007 model, second generation Hybrid Synergy Drive Toyota Estima/Previa hybrid minivan, second generation Hybrid Synergy Drive (Japanese market only) [edit] 2007 Nissan Altima Hybrid (limited sales) Saturn Aura Green Line Hybrid (BAS) 2008 model, Mild hybrid |
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