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Old 04-26-2009, 12:47 PM   #37
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Someone please show me where Toyota indicates that the U.S. Yaris or the NZ series engines were designed for 87-octane gas. Or that it runs better on 87-octane gas.

The Smart requires premium gas; Yaris has a higher compression engine.
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Old 04-26-2009, 12:52 PM   #38
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^^ That little book that came in the glove box of your car - it's called an owner's manual. Crack it open sometime, or read more than the last post in this thread.
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Old 04-26-2009, 01:00 PM   #39
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^^ That little book that came in the glove box of your car - it's called an owner's manual. Crack it open sometime, or read more than the last post in this thread.
Since you are so smart... please indicate the page on the manual or a link.
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Old 04-26-2009, 01:28 PM   #40
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^^ 170 in my 07 manual
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Old 04-26-2009, 02:06 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by supmet View Post
^^ 170 in my 07 manual
It said "minimum required."

Here, let me type slower.

Someone please show me where Toyota indicates that the U.S. Yaris or the NZ series engines were designed for 87-octane gas. Or that it runs better on 87-octane gas.
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Old 04-26-2009, 03:54 PM   #42
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http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/t...9Yaris_sfo.pdf
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Old 04-26-2009, 04:05 PM   #43
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nice... and I can find a place where it say it's the minimum you should use.
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Old 04-26-2009, 04:47 PM   #44
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I am not sure if the elevetion that one lives at has a bearing on the fuel octane that can be used. I once had a 89 or 90 Nissan Sentra in which the owners manual suggested a higher octane at lower elevations. I always ran the cheap gas in Colorado with no problem. When I drove to California the car started to ping. Filling with a higher octane solved the problem while at the coast.
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Old 04-26-2009, 05:13 PM   #45
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nice... and I can find a place where it say it's the minimum you should use.
well you asked to show you a place and i did... if still wanna continue to disregard this info that's really ok with me. i'm just gonna run the minimum or recommended because i certainly haven't seen any information supporting the use of a higher octane.
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Old 04-26-2009, 05:52 PM   #46
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well you asked to show you a place and i did... if still wanna continue to disregard this info that's really ok with me. i'm just gonna run the minimum or recommended because i certainly haven't seen any information supporting the use of a higher octane.
Yes, you did. But the link is a press release (marketing) and not for the end user. The document that was given to me when I bought my Yaris states “Octane Rating 87 or higher” and not “87 octane is recommended”.

My point is if you going to say high octane for a Yaris is a waste of money then show me. I don't want to see some out dated article from before the days people bought 10.5:1 compression ratio engines off the car lot.
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Old 04-26-2009, 06:08 PM   #47
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Yes, you did. But the link is a press release (marketing) and not for the end user. The document that was given to me when I bought my Yaris states “Octane Rating 87 or higher” and not “87 octane is recommended”.

My point is if you going to say high octane for a Yaris is a wastes of money then show me. I don't want to see some out dated article from before the days people bought 10.5:1 compression ratio engines off the car lot.
from what i am reading the engine has a high compression ratio, yes. but because of a delayed closing intake valve which lets air escape the cylinder freely rather than being compressed, the compression is reduced. this in order to make it more fuel efficient.

bottom line is the yaris was never intended for performance so there really is no reason to think that it would benefit from a higher octane. the whole purpose of the nz family of engines, i think, was for use with a hybrid electric motor. toyota's intent is to make the engine as fuel efficient as possible so i don't see any reason why a higher octane would be beneficial.

and yes you can find places where it states 87 is recommended and some places where it states it's the minimum but i think the fact that you can't really find any place that states higher octanes improve performance says a lot.
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Old 04-26-2009, 11:37 PM   #48
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Geez what a series of posts. It says 87 octane is recommended because that's the octane rating the engine was designed to run on. The reason it says minimum required is because IF you need gas and 87 isn't available for whatever reason, you CAN run 89 or 92; it will run on it. However there's no benefit other than not running out of gas. It will not increase power, mileage or improve the performance above what 87 octane does. It will leave more carbon residue in the engine if you continuously run the higher octane for the reasons stated in mine and other's previous posts.

If you want to run the higher octane stuff... it's your car, your money...fill it up with what you want. Just don't be surprised if your engine gunks up sooner than everybody else's.
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Old 04-26-2009, 11:50 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by nemelek View Post
I am not sure if the elevetion that one lives at has a bearing on the fuel octane that can be used. I once had a 89 or 90 Nissan Sentra in which the owners manual suggested a higher octane at lower elevations. I always ran the cheap gas in Colorado with no problem. When I drove to California the car started to ping. Filling with a higher octane solved the problem while at the coast.
Altitude does affect engines. The air to fuel ratio does change between the thinned out air at high altitudes versus the denser air near sea level. However there's also a difference in gas quality; cheap gas at a cheap station may be truly cheap in every way. My Mazda RX8 does not like the cheap off-brand gas; I only put Shell in it. In a pinch I can use Chevron but it runs best with Shell. Tried some of the cheap off-brand stuff and the car ran like crap. Soon as I could I filled back up with Shell and the car was back to itself again.

The Yaris is more forgiving but I still put Shell regular in it. The few pennies you save in cheap gas you more than pay for later with repairs and having fuel injectors clog up, emission systems clog up, and engine gunk build-up.
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Old 04-27-2009, 12:12 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by newyar View Post
It says 87 octane is recommended because that's the octane rating the engine was designed to run on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newyar View Post
Just don't be surprised if your engine gunks up sooner than everybody else's.
This is what I’m sick of. People assuming things that they have nothing to back it up with. I never say that higher octane is better for the yaris engine, just show me some proof that is not if you're going to make that claim. I did show where some would say it is better but did not state my opinion. If you’re going state your opinion then show me some facts.

I spent half my life working in the labs and offices of the world largest gasoline and oil companies here in Houston, would love to read some facts and not opinions.

Last edited by Ace; 04-27-2009 at 12:29 AM.
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Old 04-27-2009, 02:09 AM   #51
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This is what I’m sick of. People assuming things that they have nothing to back it up with. I never say that higher octane is better for the yaris engine, just show me some proof that is not if you're going to make that claim. I did show where some would say it is better but did not state my opinion. If you’re going state your opinion then show me some facts.

I spent half my life working in the labs and offices of the world largest gasoline and oil companies here in Houston, would love to read some facts and not opinions.
Well if you worked half your life in the labs and offices of the gas and oil companies as you claim then you wouldn't be asking for facts; you'd already know. How about you just contact Toyota, you know the people who DESIGNED THE ENGINE and ask them what they meant when they PUT IT IN THE MANUAL? Since you don't seem willing to accept the owner's manual as "facts" it won't matter what I or anyone else on this forum says.

Oh and keep in mind that the gas and oil companies WANT you spending more money on the higher octane fuels so they aren't about to tell you otherwise. Ask people who rebuild engines for a living; who service fuel and ignition systems; who make spark plugs, valves, rings, pistons. Ask the people who deal with the consequences of tens of thousands of miles of fuel usage in engines; they'll give you some "facts".

If you're "sick and tired" then relieve your symptoms by doing some research yourself instead of demanding others do it for you. I stated what I know based on decades of experience with cars. If you don't like it or disagree with it; fine. Everybody is entitled to their opinion. Why don't you just fill your tank with 87; run it out, measure your gas mileage. Then fill up with 92 and see if you can tell any difference other than the cost. If you can't, then there's your "facts". But it's your car; spend your money on whatever grade fuel you want to.
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Old 04-27-2009, 02:36 AM   #52
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doing some research yourself... Everybody is entitled to their opinion.
Thank you for admitting that you have no proof and it’s just an opinion.
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Old 04-27-2009, 03:22 PM   #53
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The Yaris was desgined to run on regular. Toyota states 87 octane as the minimun recommended fuel (nothing lower) in the owner's manual. Save the money for beverages and a turbo charger.

Toyota designed the car with computer controls to enable it to run a relatively high compression on 87 octane by dynamically retarding ignition timing based on feedback from the knock sensor; further, they designed variable valve timing to scavenge exhaust from the cylinders more efficiently at higher rpm, lowering cylinder temperatures for the incoming charge. Without this technology, the engine would require higher octane fuel to avoid fuel detonation. Temperature, the by-product of compression, is the determinate factor for octane. The higher the compression, the higher the temperature and the higher the octane requirement. By old school standards, the Yaris is a very sophisiticated little engine.

The Yaris' timing does not advance to account for higher octane fuel. Without higher compression, it would be pointless. It only retards from its set point to account for higher temperatures from engine load that would result in knock. The set point can be adjusted if this is out of spec or objectionable, but a little pinging under load especially in high ambient temperature is normal and is a sign that the engine is squeaking the last bit of energy out of the charge.

Unfortunately, the Yaris doesn't dynamically raise its compression ratio without the assistance of forced induction. Using a higher grade fuel isn't required. Without higher compression, higher octance fuel in and of itself, won't improve the Yaris' peformance or extend its mpg to justify the expense; but, if you want to spend the cash....
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Old 04-27-2009, 03:28 PM   #54
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LOL at the constant argument between gas grades.......
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