Guns

[Black Yaris]

Originally Posted by PK198105

well I guess that's what your Constitution is all about... freedoms, but with freedoms come obligations and consequences. And don't get me wrong I'm not judging anyone who carries a weapon , I'm just trying to understand your position and also why the US more dangerous than let's say Canada (we're probably just too cold to care lol).

well look at the UK, guns are prohibited, even for law enforcement
they still have violent crimes and ciminals with guns

[Bob_VT]

Ladder of force...... use of deadly force...... safe weapon use....... training is the key.

A handgun is not too much different than using a car to run someone over...... that's a reason why the gun debate goes array. If someone wants to do bodily harm to you ..... they will find a way...... baseball bat, hammer, razor blade or beat to death with a feather (which takes a LONG time)....... the best defense in any situation is to run and live to fight another day.

If a robbery is comitted the right way.... money and goods should be given up and the people should just do as told.

People who have been or are currently in the service will agree with me on this but, there is no glory in aiming a weapon at people.

[Kal-El]

Originally Posted by PK198105

is everyone packing in the States?

Absolutely not. Some of the guys on here are giving a false impression of the US and one that is a bad impression. More people do not own guns then those that do.

I respect and support responsible gun ownership but let's not make it sound like the US is a violent war like state where everyone's packing heat.

[SIPNGAS]

I'd have to research it...

I received an interesting email the other day about Australia (our Aussie members might be able to tell us if it's true or not) but I believe one of the statistics were that since carrying guns has been banned, violent crime has gone up 44%. I'm guessing because the criminals will always have guns and regular, law-abiding civilians are left largely unable to fight back.


PK... =)...lol..maybe it IS too cold...who knows...

[Bob_VT]

5' 1" person can cripple a person of any size with proper training and just using household items. I used to teach self defense classes to business men and show them how effective a Time magazine can be tightly rolled up. Weapons may be good but just knowing proper defense is better.

A properly placed strike or kick will give you time to run.

[Kal-El]

Originally Posted by PK198105

in Quebec we have a law that in order to be "innocent" while defending yourself , one needs to respond to an attack with proportionate force, (i.e you can't pull a gun on someone who's attacking you with a knife). from what i know about the US there is no such law, just you attacked me i have the right to protect myself no matter what.

This is a bit odd. If someone comes at you with a knife and you don't have a knife on you, you're out of luck if you happen to have a gun?

That's ridiculous. I guess if you plan on defending yourself, you need to carry every possible weapon. You have to carry a knife, gun, baseball bat, taser, ect... so that you can match the attacker.

[Bob_VT]

Hey PK don't get me wrong ....... I own weapons and use them mainly for recreation and hunting........ we even have a "tourist season" to keep things fun!

[Bob_VT]

Originally Posted by PK198105

well that's the law we have, if a guy comes at you with a bat you are allowed to answer with proportionate force , chair , big ass candle etc. basically a blunt instrument for a blunt instrument. etc

and as for your example if you shoot someone holding a knife you can be found guilty of murder (if you kill the person)

That is true in the USA too HOWEVER the key is fear for your life.... if you know you have the advantage and use it to win .... you can be charged.

That is part of the training for Use of Deadly Force.

[firemachine69]

In Canada, if you defend yourself with any type of functional self-defense tool, expect alot of your time and money to go down the drain.

I am still, however, a strong supporter of self-defense.

[Bob_VT]

Originally Posted by PK198105

right.... you considering me a tourist


jk

Depends..... do you stop on the traveled part of the road.... step out and take a picture of a tree or a cow? I consider you a Comrad from the North........ only the people south of VT have tourist habits!

[Bob_VT]

Originally Posted by firemachine69

In Canada, if you defend yourself with any type of functional self-defense tool, expect alot of your time and money to go down the drain.

I am still, however, a strong supporter of self-defense.

So if you have trained in hand to hand combat are you considered to be a functional weapon? Or if you play baseball and have a bat..... a carpenter with a hammer?

[firemachine69]

Yes, and the other two, it depends on how you answer the police as to why you had the "tool" in had at the time of the incident...

[TLyttle]

My experience has been that the Americans are taught about the right to arm themselves, instead of being taught not to be a threat to anyone else. The key is EDUCATION, simple as that. Teach the population... ALL of it... the concept of right and wrong, and arming people will not be necessary.

I don't see that happening, as it will take at least 3 generations of intelligent education to get rid of the "I gotta defend myself" mentality...

If the US emptied the prisons of recreational pot users, they would have lots of room for people who shoot at each other.

[firemachine69]

Wherever there are honest, law-abiding citizens, there will be violent criminals.

Please don't spew liberal BS about "education".

The right to defend one's self is a fundamental fact of life. Government should NOT have any say in this.

As they say:

"A conservative is a liberal who's been mugged."

and

"Fear of firearms is a sign of retarded sexual maturity."

[MadMax]

Y'know, it's funny. We have a Canadian Air Force liaison officer where I work and one of the first things he did when he got here was buy a pistol! Not because he was afraid of crime or anything, he just wanted to own a handgun! I took him to the range and let him shoot my XD45 and M1911s, and in the end he bought a Para Ordnance. He even brought his teenage son out to shot a few weeks ago, and I let him shoot all of my pistols. He was nervous, but did enjoy it. My point is, there are many pro-gun Canadians out there...

I've got lot of guns, and Texas is a very gun-friendly state. Non-CHL holders can actually legally carry concealed weapons in their cars thanks to the Castle Doctrine that was passed and took effect a little over a year ago. We don't have to worry about defending our families and properties from criminals, as far as I know no grand jury has ever not passed a 'No Bill' (conviction) against a law-abiding citizen that used a firearm to defend themselves. When we say 'Don't Mess With Texas,' we mean it!

This country was founded thanks to the gun, and our founding fathers made sure its citizens would always have the right to arm ourselves by including it in the Constitution. It was one of the most insightful amendments, and the Supreme Court recently revalidated that right in its ruling on Heller vs DC.

By the way, gun registration in Canada has been a huge failure! It has been estimated that as many as five million gun-owning Canadians have not registered their firearms. As of June 2003, only 6.4 million firearms had been registered, despite a 1974 estimate of 10 million guns in Canada. More than 20,000 Canadian gun-owners have publicly refused to register their firearms. Many others are silently ignoring the law. The provincial governments of Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba have dumped both the administration and the enforcement of all federal gun-control laws right back into Ottawa's lap, throwing the Canadian government into a paper civil war. The system is so bad that five Canadian provinces (British Columbia joins Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta, Nova Scotia, and Ontario) are refusing to prosecute firearm owners who fail to register. And the myth that registration does not lead to confiscation didn't happen in Canada! The handgun registration law of 1934 was the source used to identify and confiscate (without compensation) over half of the registered handguns in 2001. And the attempts to register hasn't had any effect on crime. Canadian homicide rates were virtually unchanged before and after gun registration requirements were implemented (151/100,000 people in 1998 and 149/100,000 in 2002). In fact, after the implementation of Canada's 1977 gun controls prohibiting handgun possession for protection, the 'breaking and entering' crime rate rose 25%, surpassing the American rate.

All those facts can be found in the latest issue of GunFacts. And for why guns are important in civilization, this outstandign article explains it better than I ever could...

Why the Gun in Civilization?

By Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret)

Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force.

Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that's it. In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force.

The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gang banger, and a single gay guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats.

The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we'd be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a [armed] mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger's potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat--it has no validity when most of a mugger's potential marks are armed.

People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society wherethe state has granted him a force monopoly.

Then there's the argument that the gun makes more confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser. People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't constitute lethal force watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level.

The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weight lifter. It simply wouldn't work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn't both lethal and easily employable. When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation...and that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act.

If there is anyone you can trust as much as a Texan, it's a Marine!

Cheers! M2

[MadMax]

By the way, I want add one of these to my arsenal; but I fear the new administration is gonna make it too tough/expensive to get one now...



Cheers! M2

[Black Yaris]

dang..... what have I started
just wanted to show my new new revolver, and asked if anyone wanted to show off their pieces

[Black Yaris]

maybe he wants to target shoot from a mile away