Fuel Prices

[fmicle]

It's funny to me how people complain about $2.50 a gallon for gas. Let's see, a Grande something at Starbucks would cost about $4 , that's 16 oz. It's 8 times that in a gallon, so that makes $32 for a gallon of boiling water run through some ground beans... I haven't heard anyone complaining about that or blaming the government...

Why do people think they are entitled to cheap gas? Ferrchrissake, gas is cheaper than most drinking water at Safeway!!!

[Jitazuki]

Originally Posted by why?

I've seen some of those crazy British and European taxes. I don't think I could bring myself to own a car if I lived over there, I'd have to live and work near a rail, or in a city with a good metro system.

Of course the Brits are starting to go in the right direction to, while we go in the opposite. You'd think our leaders would take a look at what they've been doing, and learn from their mistakes, but nope!

We aren't technically going in to the right direction. Everything is simply taxed heavily because the UK Government has a huge multi-billion pound deficit that they are trying to pay off.

Originally Posted by why?

All of Europe and most of the rest of the world gas is taxed to death. And then of course the fools try and tell you how horrible the product is and we shouldn't use it, like they are doing with cigarettes.

You think these people would know how to think, and realize that if no one is buying it no one would be paying the absurd taxes.

I completely agree. They sell us things and say "Oh you're buying this and this is very bad for you and the environment."

Why sell it us then? Taxing it heavily is supposed to make us use it less apparently. But it's just another moneymaker. However you see it, there are people that need to use their cars for everyday use, even treehuggers drive cars.

Originally Posted by KrazyDawg

But in return, you have universal health care and mass public transit. The cars in Europe also have higher MPG.

If you lived here you'd know the problems with the overcrowded and extremely poor public transport systems. I went to college for 2 years using the same bus service, which involves me changing the bus twice with the journey time of around 1 and a half hours. You wouldn't believe me if I'd tell you it was only 7 miles away.

With the new Conservative Government looking to privatize the current health care, it will not be as "universal" as you think it is.

[KrazyDawg]

Originally Posted by Jitazuki

If you lived here you'd know the problems with the overcrowded and extremely poor public transport systems. I went to college for 2 years using the same bus service, which involves me changing the bus twice with the journey time of around 1 and a half hours. You wouldn't believe me if I'd tell you it was only 7 miles away.

San Francisco's MUNI has bus lines that take the same amount of time for a city that's only 7x7 miles. The "train" service can take even longer but it's a light rail/underground "train." Besides the schedule, MUNI has its own issues with unions not wanting to work and expecting pay raises and bonuses all the time.

[why?]

Originally Posted by mryaris

lots of meaningless things.

Just comparing numbers is meaningless. And your average salaries are meaningless as well.

Originally Posted by fmicle

It's funny to me how people complain about $2.50 a gallon for gas. Let's see, a Grande something at Starbucks would cost about $4 , that's 16 oz. It's 8 times that in a gallon, so that makes $32 for a gallon of boiling water run through some ground beans... I haven't heard anyone complaining about that or blaming the government...

Why do people think they are entitled to cheap gas? Ferrchrissake, gas is cheaper than most drinking water at Safeway!!!

We are entitled to low taxes. When Starbucks pays more money in taxes than it earns in profits, I am sure people will complain.

Not to mention crappy coffee and bottled water are luxury items. No one would consider gas a luxury item, for 99% of the USA, it is a necessity.

Originally Posted by Jitazuki

We aren't technically going in to the right direction. Everything is simply taxed heavily because the UK Government has a huge multi-billion pound deficit that they are trying to pay off.

I completely agree. They sell us things and say "Oh you're buying this and this is very bad for you and the environment."

Why sell it us then? Taxing it heavily is supposed to make us use it less apparently. But it's just another moneymaker. However you see it, there are people that need to use their cars for everyday use, even treehuggers drive cars.

If you lived here you'd know the problems with the overcrowded and extremely poor public transport systems. I went to college for 2 years using the same bus service, which involves me changing the bus twice with the journey time of around 1 and a half hours. You wouldn't believe me if I'd tell you it was only 7 miles away.

With the new Conservative Government looking to privatize the current health care, it will not be as "universal" as you think it is.

Yes, the Brits have a large deficit, but I mean politically. They are going away from socialism and communism, and realizing free markets are better. The USA has a bunch of people willfully charging in the other proven failure direction.

[mryaris]

Originally Posted by why?

Just comparing numbers is meaningless. And your average salaries are meaningless as well.

Hardly meaningless. It allows you to compare what people were paying for gas (or anything else for that matter) back in the day to the present in relation to income. When you crunch the numbers you can see that we really aren't paying much more today at $2.73/gallon than people were back in 1960 when gas was $0.31/gallon.

This is essentially how the CPI is calculated and it is a very good economic indicator, so again.....hardly meaningless.

There are so many people complaining about how much gas is and that it is overtaxed......you can see that taxes are only 15% of the price of a gallon of gas. Taxed, yes. But hardly overtaxed. When that number approaches 50% (like most EU countries) then people can bitch and moan about high taxes that pay for meaningless social programs that don't work.

Here's another way to quantify it....assume you get 20MPG and drive 15,000 miles per year. You would use 750 gallons of gas per year.

In 1960, 750 gallons would cost you $232.50 (750 x $0.31) and in 2010 it would cost you $2047.50 (750 x $2.73). Now you can make a ratio of your yearly gas bill in relation to what you earn.


Median Income:

1960: $232.50/$5600= 4.15%
2010: $2047.50/$52,029= 3.93%

Minimum Wage:

1960: $232.50/$2080= 11.2%
2010: $2047.50/$15,080= 13.6%


Looks like a wash to me. So.....we are paying pretty much the same for gas today as people did 50 years ago.

You can also use an inflation caculator to find out what something today would cost 50 years ago and vice versa. Try this one: http://www.usinflationcalculator.com and see for yourself.

[fmicle]

^ +1,000,000. The numbers speak for themselves.

Oh, and by the way, Big Oil pays a lot of taxes alright... just not in the US... at least not the biggest chunk...

[chrisj]

I just think that everyone needs to conserve, whether it be for economic reasons or just because we shouldn't waste ever drop of everything just because we can. That's why everyone should drive a Yaris! :)

[vwtech]

fuel prices in the us are some of the cheapest in the world but people still complain about it. I spend 25 a week on gas and my commute is 32 miles ONE way which is double what most people drive so I dont see how you complain about spending less than 20 dollars a week on fuel.

[vwtech]

Originally Posted by mryaris

OK.....I crunched the numbers using minimum wage instead of median income. As expected the percentages are higher and the fluctuations greater, but again, aside from the spike in 1980 & again in 2005 the numbers are pretty consistant.

Here's the breakdown for my chart:

Year/hourly minimum wage/price of gal of gas/ratio of gal per hour

1960/$1.00/$0.31/31.0%
1965/$1.25/$0.31/24.8%
1970/$1.60/$0.36/22.5%
1975/$2.10/$0.57/27.1%
1980/$3.10/$1.25/40.3%
1985/$3.35/$1.20/35.8%
1990/$3.80/$1.16/30.5%
1995/$4.25/$1.15/27.0%
2000/$5.15/$1.52/29.5%
2005/$5.15/$2.48/48.1%
2010/$7.25/$2.72/37.5%


It's harder to quantify, but it looks like generally speaking, we have always paid about 35% of our hourly minimum wage on a gallon of gas. I should probably do each and every year to get a clearer picture.....this one has too many fluctuations to do every 5-years (but I wanted an apples to apples comparo).

cars have gotten alot more efficient though a car in the 60's probably got an average of 10mpg. we are spending 7% more per gallon but our cars are getting 30 more mpg than cars from the 60's.

[Black Yaris]

Blah, blah blah.... you can rant and rave, crunch #'s all you want.... you can do nothing about gas prices. just deal with it

[vwtech]

I love it when poeple complain about cigarette prices.

[Black Yaris]

Originally Posted by vwtech

I love it when poeple complain about cigarette prices.

kinda like bitchin about fuel prices..... if you think the prices are so bad, stop buying

[chrisj]

Isn't that why we bought Yaris' in the first place? So we wouldn't have to buy so much gas! Like I said before, I don't care how high gas prices go, because the higher they are, the less people who are on the roads. Good enough. Well, Yaris' will be on the road. ;)

[henry33]

Originally Posted by Black Yaris

kinda like bitchin about fuel prices..... if you think the prices are so bad, stop buying

that is right I quit smoking since the price went up again and I am not willing to pay for something that hurt me so much

I wan to react that in Europe we have to pay taxes. as someone said all countries have deficit and governments try to decrease it by taxing everything. The same happen in Slovakia but in comparison with other countries the road tax is not so horrible. I just do not understand where US government takes money (you do not have taxes on roads and gas etc) when you spend so much on wars (huge amount of money). Just curious I do not want to talk about the war whether it is right or wrong.

[why?]

Originally Posted by vwtech

I love it when poeple complain about cigarette prices.

i love it when politicians tax cigarettes higher, then complain that they don't get enough tax money for cigarettes, yet they still all make sure everyone says how bad cigarette smoking is for you.

Originally Posted by Black Yaris

kinda like bitchin about fuel prices..... if you think the prices are so bad, stop buying

yea, like that is really an option. That is like saying," you don't like breathing, so just stop breathing." not really a practical solution.

Originally Posted by henry33

that is right I quit smoking since the price went up again and I am not willing to pay for something that hurt me so much

I wan to react that in Europe we have to pay taxes. as someone said all countries have deficit and governments try to decrease it by taxing everything. The same happen in Slovakia but in comparison with other countries the road tax is not so horrible. I just do not understand where US government takes money (you do not have taxes on roads and gas etc) when you spend so much on wars (huge amount of money). Just curious I do not want to talk about the war whether it is right or wrong.

US taxes are mostly income taxes. There are gas taxes, real estate taxes, and there are also taxes that we don't see, and that a lot of people don't know about, but we pay anyways.

[fmicle]

Originally Posted by henry33

that is right I quit smoking since the price went up again and I am not willing to pay for something that hurt me so much

I wan to react that in Europe we have to pay taxes. as someone said all countries have deficit and governments try to decrease it by taxing everything. The same happen in Slovakia but in comparison with other countries the road tax is not so horrible. I just do not understand where US government takes money (you do not have taxes on roads and gas etc) when you spend so much on wars (huge amount of money). Just curious I do not want to talk about the war whether it is right or wrong.

It's a little bit of a different mind set here. The government is not meant to "feed" the people, as it is the tradition in Easter Europe, where the government is expected to take care of everything, from providing jobs to welfare, to pensions, to free education and so on.

Here you get just some basic services and then you're on your own. Taxes are lower, sometimes much lower than some European countries, you get to keep more of you heard earned money, but you're also expected to look after yourself more. If your house burns down, don't come crying to the government, you had better be insured.

That's the basic idea, the devil is in the details, of course

As for, where the war money is coming from? Well, it's complicated... Read about the "Bretton Woods System" and reserve currencies. The US is in a privileged situation because of the role of the US dollar in the world and can get away doing things other countries (especially smaller countries) can't.

[henry33]

so we have to moved to US :) if it would be easier I will do so ;)

[fmicle]

^ LOL, I am from Romania and before 1989, during Ceausescu's regime, there was a joke all over the country, because people wanted to leave so badly: they used to say, the last one to leave the country should turn off the lights. That was a hint at the draconian energy conservation policies that were being practiced in Romania in the 80's. From our perspective, countries like Slovakia were paradise

Did you ever have to show your ID card to get your ration of butter, oil and sugar?