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Old 11-26-2014, 10:56 PM   #1
KorJax
 
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Very strange clunking from driver side tire - everything tried so far no go? (2007)

So, I just bought a 2007 manual yaris and go figure the clutch went out a month later. Car was perfectly fine otherwise, except for some iffy braking. Some mechanic friends of mine offered to help me out, so I bought a clutch kit and we put it on. Turns out, the brake pads were really bad and so were the roaters, so I ended up getting those replaced too.

New clutch works great! Brakes are solid. Except, there's a really strange issue that has now come up that has us all confused. ONLY when the car is driving forward from a stop at low RPM, a very hard "THUNK THUNK THUNK" sound happens from the driver side wheel. It noticeably judders the whole car and I feel it in the gas pedal. It could originate somewhere else and just "vibrate out" from the wheel for all we know, but that's all that happens. Cruising? Totally fine. Accelerating from a stop at higher RPM's (lead footing)? Totally fine. Only when the engine is "working" from a stop so to speak do I get this serious clunking. After we replaced everything it used to do it when braking too but that stopped after a while (for some reason).

We tried testing out the transmission, seeing if it got damaged during install. Nope, tests showed it worked fine. The issue also never happens when the car is jacked up - the wheels rotate just fine, the brakes brake just fine, etc. Everything spins and runs as it should as if there were no issues. So then we thought it might be a problem with a driver side driveshaft since it had to get taken off at a weird angle, so they were concerned it might have been damaged. Bought a new drive shaft, put it on, works fine while jacked up. Issue still remained.

Then, we figured it had to be the engine mounts, which were really fucked up. We figured it was likely that because the mounts were bad, the brand new stiff clutch is just causing the engine to buck under strain from a stop. Engine mounts replaced, all shiny a new. Issue still remains.

At this point we are at a total loss. We even brought over a mechancial engineer friend and he had no idea what was going on, thinking that there had to just be a loose/missing bolt somewhere, but we double checked everything and reseated what we could to no avail.

One of my friends thinks that there might have been an underlying issue this entire time that I couldn't see because the previous clutch was so bad that the engine never had the torque to cause the issue to happen in the first place. I'm just wondering if this is the case, what it could possibly be.

I'm also thinking if the brand new clutch and rotors+pads need time to be broken in. On our first test run I also got the issue when braking (likely from the strain braking had on the wheel) but haven't had it since then. The calipers weren't in super solid condition but they weren't bad either. I'm not sure if this is a clutch issue or what.

What could it be? For now, the car is totally drivable, I just have to make sure to give a bit higher RPM than I normally would on stop avoid the hard clunking/juddering on I feel in my driver side wheel and in the pedal. At least one good thing out of all of this is the amount of shiny new parts in my engine bay now lol
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Old 11-27-2014, 01:23 AM   #2
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Do you happen to know if the brake pads have a diagonal slot cut into them?
Like this:


I've only seen once before where a brake pad like that followed the groove of the rotor out and made occasional clunk,clunk,clunk noise on turn. One pad also had an abnormal amount of play in the bracket (cheap pads). If you feel it is from the brakes, maybe try swapping pads/rotors from L to R and trying.

If possible, try to take a video of it. I may be able to advise further.
Cheers.
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Old 11-27-2014, 10:09 AM   #3
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Have u looked at the control arm bolts that are prone to breaking on the older models?


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Old 11-27-2014, 12:46 PM   #4
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If it's a clunking from the wheel I'd recommend trying to move the wheel when it's up on stands and see if you have any play with the control arms or suspension.

However, it souds like the engine/clutch shudder the 1NZ-FE seems to be notorious for in the MT version. Try and bleed the clutch AS WELL AS THE SLAVE CYLINDER and see if that helps. I did this on mine last moth and it worked amazing for about 3-4 weeks and now it back half as bad a before. Only other fix is to just give it more gas until clutch warm up. Does this only happens for the first 10mins or so of driving?
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Old 11-27-2014, 01:22 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoryM View Post
Do you happen to know if the brake pads have a diagonal slot cut into them?
Like this:


I've only seen once before where a brake pad like that followed the groove of the rotor out and made occasional clunk,clunk,clunk noise on turn. One pad also had an abnormal amount of play in the bracket (cheap pads). If you feel it is from the brakes, maybe try swapping pads/rotors from L to R and trying.

If possible, try to take a video of it. I may be able to advise further.
Cheers.
I'm pretty sure they didn't. I'm not sure if its a brake pad issue since the problem doesn't happen when braking, only accelerating, and turning or not has no effect.
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Old 11-27-2014, 01:24 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeeYari View Post
Have u looked at the control arm bolts that are prone to breaking on the older models?


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No, could be that. I'll have to ask next time I'm around my (much better mechanically inclined) friends.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmontague View Post
If it's a clunking from the wheel I'd recommend trying to move the wheel when it's up on stands and see if you have any play with the control arms or suspension.

However, it souds like the engine/clutch shudder the 1NZ-FE seems to be notorious for in the MT version. Try and bleed the clutch AS WELL AS THE SLAVE CYLINDER and see if that helps. I did this on mine last moth and it worked amazing for about 3-4 weeks and now it back half as bad a before. Only other fix is to just give it more gas until clutch warm up. Does this only happens for the first 10mins or so of driving?
Wheel is fine on the stands. Everything looks perfect and runs perfect in the garage. Its only when actually out and about does the problem happen. I'll look into doing what you suggested. I'm not sure if the problem happens after the car is warmed up honestly, I'll find out friday when I have to drive the thing 1.5 hours back home (thankfully it drives perfectly fine when you get up to speed). You said after bleeding the clutch and the slave cylender that fixed it for you but only for a month?
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Old 11-28-2014, 09:48 AM   #7
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Yes, I've noticed the problem on cold starts again, although less frequent then it used to be. It may be a design flaw in the slave cylinder since it does go away for about 4 weeks after bleeding it (using both hands to "force" bleed it).

Once the clutch warms up I doesn't shudder even when under really low RPM. When it's cold I have to be sure to rev it higher when going from a stop to avoid excessive shudder. Google clutch shudder in a yaris and you'll find many people with the problem. It seems to go away when a different aftrermarket clutch is installed. As bad as it feels when it happens I bought the car with 87,000km and now have 130,000km on it and absolutely zero sign of lcutch wear so I don't think it is causing any damage.

It may not be that, but I'd look into it if the noise goes away when your clutch warms up.
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Old 11-28-2014, 01:11 PM   #8
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Didn't think clutch shudder would be described as a thunking noise, but I guess if it were bad enough. Yes, clutch shudder is very common on Yarii. Mine does it cold. It is the clutch disc that is shuddering on the pressure-plate or flywheel. Can be caused by hotspots, warped parts etc. Usually will notice it when cold trying to accelerate from a stop as you normally would (especially on a hill). If you ride the clutch a little longer or accelerate harder, it won't shudder. If it does shudder, disengage the clutch and try again. Shuddering causes impact loads to your gears/shafts which is not good for them. They are brittle and can break.
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Old 11-29-2014, 11:55 AM   #9
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I'm not sure if clutch shudder could be it. I'm familiar with what you are talking about - cold driving a bit shuddery on accelerating from a stop if the engine has to work more.

This is different, and its noticably coming from driver side wheel area. But it only happens as a result of accelerating "slowly" at lower RPM's from a stop, just like you'd get with the clutch shudder. I'll be having a look at it again tomorrow morning, see if I might be able to get a video of it
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Old 11-30-2014, 07:31 PM   #10
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Here's a video showing what I'm talking about (you can hear the sound at 0:03):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMYV4pBEueM

Here's a video looking at the underside of the driver side wheel (not sure how useful this is, but figured I'd include it):

http://youtu.be/DxBnwdGnr2I
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Old 12-01-2014, 10:18 PM   #11
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Any ideas? :\

I've discovered if I really try to, I can get the same thing to happen in 2nd and 3rd gear. It only happens when the clutch is shifting, despite it sounding and feeling like it is coming from the driver side wheel. Perhaps it is from the clutch but vibrates out near the pedal which would be why it sounds/feels like it comes from the driver side wheel? Just usually when I hear clutch sounds (like clutch shudder in the cold), its audibly coming from the clutch in the engine bay, so its weird if that is in fact the problem.

If it is that, then I'm wondering if it'll go away as it gets worn in or a problem with the clutch itself I got.
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Old 12-02-2014, 12:27 AM   #12
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Your first video is "private" so not very helpful ;)

Have you looked at the control arm and bushings as previously mentioned? Try driving at around 10-15kph and spike the brakes but not long enough to slow the car down. On brakes hard, but off as fast as you can. The idea is to shock the control arm without transferring the weight. Try it in reverse also. If it's the ctrl arm bolt or torn bushings it should cause the same noise, but only once per braking.
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Old 12-02-2014, 12:35 PM   #13
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Whoops! My bad. Fixed now.

It might be the bushings, thats the next step we thought of. I'll try doing that next time I'm out.
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Old 12-02-2014, 01:49 PM   #14
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Again, check the control arm bolt. It's an easy visual inspection.

Here's the link to the main thread on the issue with these bolts.

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27658
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Old 12-02-2014, 05:21 PM   #15
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We checked and didn't notice anything, but could have missed something.

Brake test was negative - could not get it to happen when braking, no matter how hard. It only happens when shifting, specifically as I'm accelerating while the clutch pedal is in a certain position. I'm really thinking its a clutch issue on either the install or the clutch itself, and it just sounds like its coming from the front driver side wheel, considering nothing ever happens unless the clutch is being engaged or disengaged

EDIT: There is also a bit of a "WHRRR" that very rarely happens if I punch it while the clunk is going on. Once the clutch pedal is fully engaged or disengaged = no sound no matter what I do.
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Old 12-03-2014, 03:46 PM   #16
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I'm convinced that this is strictly a clutch/transmission issue. It is definitely weird that it seems to be coming from the wheel well however, the M/T is fairly close to that area so that is likely it. I'd recommend taking apart the tranny and inspecting the clutch/bearings etc. The only problem is that isn't an easy job as you obviously know.
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Old 12-04-2014, 02:51 AM   #17
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The noise sounds very odd if that's actually what it sounds like (and not being altered by the mic/speakers). Frequency of the thump noise is not correct to be anything in the bellhousing hitting, and I would have to guess either CV joint, or ctrl arm bushings. Is it possible somehow that the angle of the CV axles is no longer correct? M/T mount not installed correctly or something.
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Old 12-04-2014, 10:23 AM   #18
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You know now that I think about it judging by the issue I'm 99% sure its the flywheel. The clutch should be fine, and the transmission appears to work/shift/etc fine as well when we tested it (and in general driving it). Asked if my friend if he machined the flywheel at all and it wasn't.

So, the flywheel likely needs machined down to work solidly with the newer clutch, or it was damaged from the old clutch enough to need replacing. The old clutch was well worn down into bolts - I could see grooves worn into whatever the part the contact surface of the clutch when the whole thing was apart. So likely that. I assumed that part was machined/replaced, but guess not :P
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