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Old 11-18-2010, 01:28 AM   #19
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Thanks for the info. Still not 100% sure which is best. Got to look into it more. But one thing I did decide to do, was to put a 90 coming through the bulk head, aiming down, rather than shooting straight across. After seeing the video (thanks cydgdgdgege) and seeing how strong the oil streams out, I didn't want it shooting onto the crank; and tamago's idea about putting the 90 made a lot of sense to me too. But I'm not too sure yet if I do want to extend it into the oil or not; still researching...

This is what I got so far:



Like tamago suggested, I could put this fitting on so the oil will return below the oil line.



This is with the 3/8" fitting on the outside..

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Old 11-18-2010, 07:34 AM   #20
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looking good sir
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Old 11-18-2010, 06:25 PM   #21
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So then, what's the point of putting a hole in the block so high? Why not just put it just below the level of the oil in the pan to begin with.

The laws of equalization should apply to any liquid fluid. No matter what the hight of the return line in the oil, the levels will always equalize out. Even if the return was taped underneath the pan. The whole problem with the Zage return was that is was too restrictive running it all the way to the front.

The return line on my old Greddy kit was in the back of the oil pan and I experienced no problems with it at all. But it ran straight out the bottom of the turbo and into the pan. No bends anywhere. (I can post a picture of it later...)
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Old 11-18-2010, 09:35 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Bluevitz-rs View Post
So then, what's the point of putting a hole in the block so high? Why not just put it just below the level of the oil in the pan to begin with.

The laws of equalization should apply to any liquid fluid. No matter what the hight of the return line in the oil, the levels will always equalize out. Even if the return was taped underneath the pan. The whole problem with the Zage return was that is was too restrictive running it all the way to the front.

The return line on my old Greddy kit was in the back of the oil pan and I experienced no problems with it at all. But it ran straight out the bottom of the turbo and into the pan. No bends anywhere. (I can post a picture of it later...)
I completely agree. I had trouble digesting cdydjded's explanation (especially after Garm confirmed Charles is using the Zage pan without problems) but I'm not ready to accept a problem with the seals (which apparently are more hardy than they seem).

Watching those YouTube videos, I was pretty surprised at the velocity of the return oil. But that also leads me to believe that the orientation of the return line isn't that big of a deal, as long as it doesn't dip up. Oil flowing at that velocity should just push it's way through the line... It's probably worth mentioning that (for me atleast) there is very little oil leaking.

I don't know what to do at this point. I now have all the tools I need to tap the block, but am wondering if there's a better way to go about this. There's wayyy too much conflicting information - both here and online.
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Old 11-18-2010, 10:12 PM   #23
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Here's a picture of the Greddy pan...

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Old 11-18-2010, 10:46 PM   #24
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^ Thanks for the pic. That design is nearly identical to Zage's... With the exception of the return line routing.

EDIT: I just had an interesting thought. Say there was a pressure buildup at the turbo. Is it possible this could cause an increase in pressure at the feed location (in my case, the oil filter)? I've been noticing slightly higher oil pressures recently (90+, esp. at idle). Could be normal / unrelated though.

Last edited by Focus_Sh1ft; 11-18-2010 at 10:56 PM.
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Old 11-18-2010, 11:03 PM   #25
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depends on RPM. When cold (under 10C) oil pressure is around 80-90 psi @ 1500RPM and above until it starts to warm up. My car is usually at about 68 psi at cruse (2500ish RPM)

^ if that's any reference to you.
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Old 11-18-2010, 11:12 PM   #26
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Yeah that sounds about right for me as well.

I ask because I've had this bizarre leak from every filter I've used since I did the turbo install.

The mystery continues...
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Old 11-19-2010, 12:00 PM   #27
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You guys are simply amazing.....
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Old 11-19-2010, 01:58 PM   #28
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Hypocrisy, thy name is.... you
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Old 11-19-2010, 02:32 PM   #29
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Nexus, good to hear from you again

I just checked my BOV and there was so little oil. Again, no loss of oil on the dipstick. Apparently some oil is normal, and the amount I'm seeing is very little. I'm going to play with my return line and return gasket before making any decisions to tap the block. I've also never once seen smoke out my exhaust...

I did also yank the PCV hose off the MAF piping and threw a breather filter in. Probably better to be getting only clean air in the intake anyways. Screw the environment
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Old 11-19-2010, 06:22 PM   #30
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hah yeah I lurk here alot, and stay in the background most of the time after the whole sleey0 thing. I like watching your builds progress.

I dunno, IMO whenever you turbo a car that isn't turboed to begin with from the factory, theres always going to be small BSey problems. Not something that will blow up the engine, but small things to irk you.

You guys have the oil drains going legit down into the oil pan. Mine are shaped like an L and have a small incline and then goes into the pan but it is on the line right above the pan. If mine doesnt have problems even with an incline in my oil returns which is technically a no no, then you shouldnt either.
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Old 11-20-2010, 09:40 AM   #31
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I just had another idea as to the case of the backup on the return.

Everyone is thinking the return is too restrictive. Well has anyone considered there's a restriction in the PCV valve? If you had a build up of pressure in the crankcase, if the pressure isn't getting out the PCV valve there's only one other option, the drain line for the turbo.
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Old 11-20-2010, 09:19 PM   #32
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Progress so far...

Got the pan back on. Decided to go below the oil line. Installed the turbo manifold, turbo, and downpipe. The oil send/return line, and now working on the water line.

Tightened the bango fitting with this ghetto trick.



Got the manifold and turbo in place without removing the A/C line. We bolted the turbo to the manifold behind the engine, and then lifted it up and bolted it to the block. We didn't bolt it together first and then try and wedge it into place. It was easier to bolt it together while behind the engine.






Quick question. Getting ready to put on the water line to the turbo. I am going to get it from the throttle body coolant lines. Just wondering if it matters which direction it flows into the turbo? Not sure which is "in" and which is "out." Even with the throttle body lines, which is "in" and which is "out." Obviously I can't start up the car to see which way it flows from the engine. If anyone knows, thanks in advance.
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Old 11-21-2010, 03:13 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluevitz-rs View Post
I just had another idea as to the case of the backup on the return.

Everyone is thinking the return is too restrictive. Well has anyone considered there's a restriction in the PCV valve? If you had a build up of pressure in the crankcase, if the pressure isn't getting out the PCV valve there's only one other option, the drain line for the turbo.
This was actually my first idea as to leaking oil. I undoubtedly had a kink in my PCV line, so I ended up pulling it and putting a breather on like two days ago. Carlos was telling me it wasn't possible though, so I dunno. I'll be watching my intake carefully... My ongoing code, P0101, hasn't returned after clearing it when I put that breather on as well.

PETERPOOP, the coolant flow direction doesn't matter. Great progress so far keep it up
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Old 11-21-2010, 10:01 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PETERPOOP View Post
Quick question. Getting ready to put on the water line to the turbo. I am going to get it from the throttle body coolant lines. Just wondering if it matters which direction it flows into the turbo? Not sure which is "in" and which is "out." Even with the throttle body lines, which is "in" and which is "out." Obviously I can't start up the car to see which way it flows from the engine. If anyone knows, thanks in advance.
the cool water (inlet) should be on the lowest fitting of the turbo.
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Originally Posted by xnamerxx
I hate people like you (xbgod) because your the reason I don't come to this board. You spout nonsense and lies and people who don't know any better hold you in high regards because they can't tell the wheat from the chaff.
you nailed it sir.
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Old 11-21-2010, 01:29 PM   #35
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Crush washers are said to only need 12 ftlbs of torque to seal, usually i see them require about 85ft lbs torque to never leak. You might be better off shaving the sides of a wrench, or making a crow foot deal by welding a closed end side of the wrench onto a socket so you can get a wrench in there in some way.
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Old 11-21-2010, 03:12 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Nexus1155 View Post
Crush washers are said to only need 12 ftlbs of torque to seal, usually i see them require about 85ft lbs torque to never leak. You might be better off shaving the sides of a wrench, or making a crow foot deal by welding a closed end side of the wrench onto a socket so you can get a wrench in there in some way.
I definitely agree - they need way more torque than advertised. Without taking the turbo apart I got them pretty tight but they still leaked. It's easy to take apart too - the only thing holding it together is that c-ring thing I think it's called.

There wasn't room to fit a 17mm socket on it, right? I can't remember, but I do remember not using a socket...
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