"Parmas" Motor

[Parmas]

Because of the previous hack the thread was lost and since the project is coming to a finish I am considering to update as far as I can on how a modified 1NZFE can perform.

The motor was bought from Jess (TurbineTech) which was owned by Bruce (TurboEcho2005). During the time discussing with Jess he pointed that a different transmission is needed to get the most out of it. I agreed to buy a C160 6spd close transmission with LSD used on stock Corrolla GTs (4AGE engine). When the motor arrived a full internal check was made and we think that more than 200Hp could be obtained.

Recently the setup was installed into the car. The transmission needed a spacer since it was hitting the chassis and the turbo exhaust mainfold custom made by Jess was only for left hand drive.

Now the car is prepared into the garage for a new stainless turbo mainfold and str8 exhaust to be completed for the next days.

Will update more as soon as I get some further news!

[PETERPOOP]

beautiful!

[Parmas]

Btw is there any Platinum spark plugs for the 1NZFE?

[cali yaris]

I think you can now call it the Parmas motor project -- after this work, it is really yours. Awesome! :clap:

[CASTREX]

Btw is there any Platinum spark plugs for the 1NZFE?

I don't think Platinum is the best choice for boost applications.

You need either the cheaper copper ones or the expensive Iridiums.

Must people use the coppers for the tunning period and once the engine is all set go to the Iridiums for daily usage.

And yes, there are Denso's and NGK's for the 1NZFE in several heat ranges.

[whooppee777]

that engine would look soooooo sick with richard holdeners intake manifold.:drool:

[cali yaris]

^ so would mine :rolleyes:

[turboecho2005]

Very nice

It looks great! And I think it's about time you called it your own project!

I also have no doubts that you will make 220-240whp. I was making around that before the 4age swap.

Good luck with the project. I look forward to following this thread.

Btw I think the mods should change the title!

[Parmas]

I don't think Platinum is the best choice for boost applications.

You need either the cheaper copper ones or the expensive Iridiums.

Must people use the coppers for the tunning period and once the engine is all set go to the Iridiums for daily usage.

And yes, there are Denso's and NGK's for the 1NZFE in several heat ranges.

What do you think about these? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=380100289012

that engine would look soooooo sick with richard holdeners intake manifold.:drool:

If all works fine and remain some free cash to spend then a custom intake mainfold will be taken into consideration beyond 15psi boost!

BTW I cannot forget about the gauges, exhaust tips and oil cooler ... here are some pics

[CASTREX]

What do you think about these? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=380100289012




Yeap, those are the recomended iridiums for the normally aspirated Yaris BKR5EIX.

But for your engine you need to go 1 step colder. Perhaps even 2 steps colder if you are going with high boost (you shoud ask this to your tuner).

On NGK the next step colder would be BKR6EIX

On NGK, the higher the number , the colder the plug. Heat range 6 is one step colder than a heat range 5.

side note: On Denso is the other way around... The Higher the number, the colder the plug.

Those should be easy to find on your local auto parts shop. Just go and ask for Yaris Iridium plugs, and then go for one step colder.

Just stick with either NGK or Denso.

[islagam]

beautiful work good information also about the plugs excellent

[Parmas]

Yeap, those are the recomended iridiums for the normally aspirated Yaris BKR5EIX.

But for your engine you need to go 1 step colder. Perhaps even 2 steps colder if you are going with high boost (you shoud ask this to your tuner).

On NGK the next step colder would be BKR6EIX

On NGK, the higher the number , the colder the plug. Heat range 6 is one step colder than a heat range 5.

side note: On Denso is the other way around... The Higher the number, the colder the plug.

Those should be easy to find on your local auto parts shop. Just go and ask for Yaris Iridium plugs, and then go for one step colder.

Just stick with either NGK or Denso.


Thanks for the info mate!

[Parmas]

I got some news and got some pics for you to check out!

The new exhaust mainfold is ready (the stainless one) now remains the intercooler piping which should be ready within the next days.

Btw the last picture shows that due to the engine not levelled the bellow of the shaft seem stressed and not in order. We will try to make it levelled as soon as all the stainless work is ready

[Parmas]

Btw I am trying to match two bov which are;

http://www.hksusa.com/products/?id=792 The HKS SSQV

http://www.blitz-uk.co.uk/Product-182.aspx The Blitz SuperSound BOV

Which of them you suggest me to choose? why?

[cali yaris]

Those are both good -- I like TIAL products myself. What wastegate are you going to use? Don't forget I'm a Blitz dealer so if you choose that let me ship you one!

[CASTREX]

I would go for the HKS Super sequential... but that is just for personal preference.

Both are quality units and will get the job done!


And agree with Cali, for the wastegate look for Tiaal, that is good stuff. That is if you are not using and internally wastegated turbo...

BTW, what turbo will you be using?

And what kind of driving would you be doing with your car once done?

Are you using the Yaris drive shafts on the c160 tranny or something else?
If you are planning to do some drag racing, or hard launches and still have the yaris shafts you should be looking for upgraded units.

[Parmas]

Those are both good -- I like TIAL products myself. What wastegate are you going to use? Don't forget I'm a Blitz dealer so if you choose that let me ship you one!

I will be interested to get some parts from you if I will not pay duty imports. So my first preference are from ppl inside European Union.

I would go for the HKS Super sequential... but that is just for personal preference.

Both are quality units and will get the job done!


And agree with Cali, for the wastegate look for Tiaal, that is good stuff. That is if you are not using and internally wastegated turbo...

BTW, what turbo will you be using?

And what kind of driving would you be doing with your car once done?

Are you using the Yaris drive shafts on the c160 tranny or something else?
If you are planning to do some drag racing, or hard launches and still have the yaris shafts you should be looking for upgraded units.

The turbo is a Garrett GT2860R ball bearing turbo with .64 turbine and I intend to use internal wastegate for now.

The intensions are mainly low class drag racing / car shows and sunday cruises. The shafts will probably need to be upgraded until then I prevent hard launches from stop signs :)

Regarding the BOV each Blitz & HKS are a quality brands. The difference is that of the price difference though

[PHXDEMON]

Nice progress :burnrubber:

[turboecho2005]

I am not sure why everyone recommends axles... i have yet to break the stock echo axles. Both with my old motor that params has and my new blacktop setup. Plus i've been to the track with it a few times too...

[CASTREX]

Did you ever launched the car with drag tires on it?

^^^

That's the kind of abuse I was talking about.
But for street use and even road track use as long as you are gentle, stock axles should be fine. I guess it all depends on the way you apply the power.

[Parmas]

Well I decided to stick with Castrex recomandation so an HKS SSQV will be!

The intercooler piping is expected to finish on the next 3 days....

[Parmas]

UPDATE:

Today I got a call that the intecooler tubing is finally finished..... Although there is more things to settle and organize!

[kou]

:clap:

[PHXDEMON]

Nice :drool: More pics of custom work to front bumper?

[Parmas]

Now I am trying to figure out how to make arrangments since from the pics above one can notice that the turbo is too close to braking divider and some fuel and oil lines. Also there is still a problem how I can manage to fit an air filter back there..... any suggestions appreciated!

[Parmas]

that engine would look soooooo sick with richard holdeners intake manifold.:drool:

Hey man I checked out a thread on scionlife about the intake mainfold made by user castrex (not sure if is the same person in this forum) and it seems interesting. Do you know if it is for international sale and if it fits the first gen yaris?

[CASTREX]

Yeah it was me... but If I were you I would not wait for that manifold.

This is been going on for months and months and months...

The company that was supposed to manufacture the intake, scrapped the project early this year.

And the guy doing the design has not posted a thing for several weeks now.:mad:

[cali yaris]

^ exactly, quite frustrating really

[ztrack157]

I think holdner's intake was a pipe dream. It was supposed to be done last year and multiple people committed to buy it. Nothing will ever come of it.

[eTiMaGo]

I think holdner's intake was a pipe dream.

Intentional pun? :laugh:

But yeah, it's really too bad, real simple, one-piece bolt-on horsepower, what's not to like about that? :iono:

[Parmas]

Yeah it was me... but If I were you I would not wait for that manifold.

This is been going on for months and months and months...

The company that was supposed to manufacture the intake, scrapped the project early this year.

And the guy doing the design has not posted a thing for several weeks now.:mad:

Ok just a thought, so it has to be custom made aswell :eek: although still not considering higher boost than the plastic mani can hold, at least for now!

[Parmas]

The HKS SSQV BOV is here! Since now I am glad to choose this nice looking BOV. During the time reading the manual, there is an option to install the Recirculation fitting (http://www.hksusa.com/products/?id=798) . Does anyone consider this? What are the prons & cons when using this option?

[cali yaris]

recirc = quieter and cleaner (since it's not blowing off into your engine bay).

I have recirc on my tC, an open air on the Yaris. I like both ways.

[Parmas]

recirc = quieter and cleaner (since it's not blowing off into your engine bay).

I have recirc on my tC, an open air on the Yaris. I like both ways.

Thanks for the info garm will do without recirc so :biggrin:

[CASTREX]

You can always leave the recirculation port ready in case you want to use it in the future.

That way, changing from one set up to the other it would be a matter of a few minutes. Just install the fitting and conect the return hose...

The HKS unit makes an amazing sound... so it's nice to have it open vented...

But if you want to go into "sleeper" mode... you can recirculate it :evil:

[CASTREX]

But the again.... after looking at your front bumper modification and that FMIC you will have a hard time going into "sleeper" mode.:eek:

Looking forward to see some videos of your car running! it will be amazing

[Parmas]

Anyone could suggest me a quality oil pressure sensor to be used on the 1NZFE?

The sensor must be compatable with the G-TECH PRO EGS gauge http://www.gtechpro.com/egs.html

[Parmas]

Since no suggestions were posted I decided to go with the R-spec High precision pressure sensor http://www.rspec.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=104&products_id=487

During a discussion with my electrical manager on the car engine management he said that the stock ecu is needed for basic activity like radiator fan power on, dashboard tach and fuel pump power on. So my question is, could the stock ecu interfere with the upgraded ecu in any means?

Wiring is expected to be ready by tommorrow

[cali yaris]

As for the sensor, did you email G Tech Pro for what sensor would be compatible?

he said that the stock ecu is needed for basic activity like radiator fan power on, dashboard tach and fuel pump power on.

This depends on what management you are using. I'm having my standalone control fans and pumps but not the dashboard stock gauges (which are all CAN). I'll probably need an aftermarket fuel gauge.

[Parmas]

UPDATE:

Wiring about to finish. It only remains the high tension and then we go!

BOV and coil pack installed! A turbo shield was installed aswell to prevent brake lines and other main wiring overheating

BTW I am told that the 1NZFE internal springs are compatable with the celica ones? Anyone knows something about?

[cali yaris]

nice progress! ^ You have some wiring to clean up!

[Parmas]

nice progress! ^ You have some wiring to clean up!

Thanks garm will organize the wiring neatly this week!

[cali yaris]

Looks like the fuel gauge works ok without the ECU in the car in mine. Don't know about the speedometer yet, will hope for the best.

[Parmas]

Looks like the fuel gauge works ok without the ECU in the car in mine. Don't know about the speedometer yet, will hope for the best.

In my case the stock ecu controls basically the dash electronics. The only thing will not work is the tach in that case I have an aftermarket one.

[Parmas]

Finally today we managed to start engine. We tuned the idling and worked stable. One thing that impressed me is that although the exhuast is cut out from the middle straight tru, the engine was really smooth, at least I expected to be many more louder than that.

Tomorrow will get some pics for the complete setup.

[changchewsoon]

your ride is off the chart man, can't wait to see the final result. please keep us posted!

[AlexNet0]

Finally today we managed to start engine. We tuned the idling and worked stable.


mm, yummy...turbo 1nz

[Parmas]

Here are some recent pics of the complete setup.

The fuel pressure regulator was not installed because the stock one can hold about 17psi of boost. When I have some more cash ready I will upgrade the intake mainfold and the regulator at once.

Because of cash tune up is moved to 2 or more weeks ahead which in the meantime I will install all the gauges necassary and a dedicated computer system into the car to monitor and control the ecu in realtime.

[eTiMaGo]

Parmas, I see your engine has a separate distributor for the spark plugs, was this stock on your car?

[ChinoCharles]

Vroom vroom!

[Parmas]

Parmas, I see your engine has a separate distributor for the spark plugs, was this stock on your car?

No it was upgraded to a coil pack setup which normally used on a ferrari 360 :eek:

[rob323]

How are you increasing the fuel pressure in relation to boost pressure if you are not using an aftermarket fpr?

[Parmas]

How are you increasing the fuel pressure in relation to boost pressure if you are not using an aftermarket fpr?

The stock regulator is capable of handle a good amount of fuel at 17psi max. When exceeding the 17psi then you need an aftermarket one (at least on the old yaris version)

[rob323]

But the stock reg can't increase the fuel pressure to compensate for boost as it doesn't reference manifold pressure. I don't have access to my manuals atm, what is the stock fuel pressure for an echo?

[cali yaris]

^ I have to agree, it doesn't quite make sense.

[Parmas]

But the stock reg can't increase the fuel pressure to compensate for boost as it doesn't reference manifold pressure. I don't have access to my manuals atm, what is the stock fuel pressure for an echo?

Well when I began my project I was about sure I was in need of an aftermarket regulator. Infact I was going to order an RS5 cosworth regulator until my mech had news from somewhere abroad that the stock one can handle the setup of 1Bar boost. I don't know the exact details, all I know is that if I decide to increase boost, the regulator needs to be replaced aswell.

[cali yaris]

stock pump and regulator will get you to about 10 psi. Art's xB gave up at that level.

[rob323]

If the stock fuel pressure is say 40 psi (just a guess) and you plan on running 10 psi of boost, you should take your injectors out and get someone to flow them at 30 psi (40 minus 10) to make sure they are still atomising correctly otherwise fuel economy and power will suffer and you will probably find that you are maxxing out the duty cycle of the injectors early due to insufficient fuel pressure behind them.

[Parmas]

Today tuneup was finally scheduled for next saturday... During some discussion about my turbo setup, we noticed that the rear mounting needs to be upgraded since the space between the turbo and brake divider lines is only about 2cm. Also need to adjust clutch pedal since it immediately works after you begin to release pedal.

In the meantime these were installed:
- G-tech gauge + G-force sensor
- Dedicated pc for engine management
- Motorized lcd
- AEM boost controller
- Ice wiring system

Will update with some pics next week

[Parmas]

Well tune up was tried this week and we could not get the most out of it because of the stock regulator (reached 250whp). Although during the tune up session the vertical link suffered overheating and needs replacement.

Yesteday I made a video for your reference although it needs a better tuneup and lots of shielding.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfzzYQ9wjSI&feature=channel_page

I will post a better one when the tuneup is 100% complete

[cali yaris]

What's a vertical link?

congrats on your tune so far! (told ya about about the limits of the regulator!)

[AlexNet0]

... of the stock regulator (reached 250whp). ...

HOLY crap

[cali yaris]

yeah he should get well over 300 with what he's doing... :clap: :bow:

[ChinoCharles]

One day... one day.

Nice work thus far man!

[AlexNet0]

yeah he should get well over 300 with what he's doing... :clap: :bow:

jesus, cant wait to see BOTH of your motors at the end of tuning :clap::thumbup:

[Parmas]

What's a vertical link?

congrats on your tune so far! (told ya about about the limits of the regulator!)

The vertical gear link is the one that shifts into gears while the horizontal link is the one that let you select from neutral to any other gear you want. Well I don't know how we could miss this since the link is only few cm behind the exhaust mainfold! Although this will be solved by installing some heat sheath aluminised sleeving around the links.

I don't know about the new yaris mounts but I am sure that the old yaris needs an upgraded rear mount because at that power and above 5000rpm the engine really make large moves to the rear. Make sure you consider this before swapping engines... although that is just a tip!

Next installation will mainly consider in heat managment and insulation like:

- Heat screen
- Exhaust Wrap
- Locking metal ties

All branded DEI. I am still not decided on an oil cooler yet! so if anyone has any tips please post :) BTW motor turned out of running 16psi @ 250whp still not 100% :)

[cali yaris]

So you went up to 16 psi to make 250 whp? cool

I'm going with TRD front engine mounts and a C-One rollstopper in the rear.

[Parmas]

Today went to the stainless crafter and decided to make some more modifications within the next month. These will consider into completion of the exhaust, some exhaust tips and harder mounting on the rear. Also an Aluminium INTAKE MAINFOLD will be made and installed within the next few month maybe will get to 25psi and 350hp!:eyebulge::biggrin:

BTW I am considering in upgrading the valve springs to harder ones (maybe ones of a celica will be good fitted there) and maybe also the valves to few larger ones. What do the experts think about this?

[justjesus]

jesus, cant wait to see BOTH of your motors at the end of tuning :clap::thumbup:

What are you talking about? I only have ONE motor, and it's not being tuned.
JUST KIDDING ! !:biggrin:

Nice job, Parmas :w00t:

[changchewsoon]

The vertical gear link is the one that shifts into gears while the horizontal link is the one that let you select from neutral to any other gear you want. Well I don't know how we could miss this since the link is only few cm behind the exhaust mainfold! Although this will be solved by installing some heat sheath aluminised sleeving around the links.

I don't know about the new yaris mounts but I am sure that the old yaris needs an upgraded rear mount because at that power and above 5000rpm the engine really make large moves to the rear. Make sure you consider this before swapping engines... although that is just a tip!

Next installation will mainly consider in heat managment and insulation like:

- Heat screen
- Exhaust Wrap
- Locking metal ties

All branded DEI. I am still not decided on an oil cooler yet! so if anyone has any tips please post :) BTW motor turned out of running 16psi @ 250whp still not 100% :)

this is really a job nicely done, its going to be a legend!

regarding your question about oil cooler, i'm currently using an engine oil cooler from ASR. (http://www.asr-development.com/prod/motorsport/index.htm)

it comes with an oil cooler adapter with a built-in thermostat.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_RQcAxTVtNRs/SRWnBnb_aII/AAAAAAAAAtU/fOQnGJh7J3w/s400/vios-turbo-7.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_RQcAxTVtNRs/SRWnBXGWHBI/AAAAAAAAAtM/ORdzUMlBXpc/s400/vios-turbo-6.jpg

by the way, how about considering ceramic coating on your exhaust manifold, turbine housing and downpipe as well for heat management?

you could also add on a thermal blanket covering the top part of the exhaust manifold to keep the engine bay temperature in check.

just my 2 cents :)

[Parmas]

Thanks for your info mate! I will gather and ask some about ceramic coating I hope that it isn't that expensive to do at least.

Regarding the oil cooler, it seems quite large to ask you whether you encountered any oil pressure loss? Also I would be interested in seeing better pics at larger size if you have and btw nice setup aswell!

What dimensions of oil cooler do you recommend for my setup?

[changchewsoon]

hi parmas, ceramic coating shouldn't be too expensive. i did mine for about USD 230 in your currency. i had the exhaust manifold, turbo housing and down pipe coated.

as for the oil cooler im using, its 15 rows and the length should be 225mm if i am not mistaken. have not encountered any loss in pressure so far.

i could send you the high resolution images of the snapshots i have for sharing if you could provide me with your email account.

this setup is quite sufficient for my normal day to day driving and some occasional spirited driving on the street. my engine oil temperature during my normal daily driving is kept around 78'C - 86'C and during long duration high revs it goes up to 92'C - 93'C but it cools down quite fast once you slow down.

i guess the choice of engine oil that you use has a lot to do with it as well. im currently using Motul 300v 5W40.

but if you're planning to build a track car, perhaps you might want to consider a even larger size cooler, and locate it in a place where you have maximum air flow by perhaps utilizing an air duct to direct air to its surface.

[Parmas]

I was thinking about this oil cooler branded Flex-a-lite and includes a dual circuit and a remote fan triggered within a certain temprature threshold.

http://www.flex-a-lite.com/auto/html/remote-mount.html

Oil cooler 45901

[cali yaris]

that's pretty fancy! -- is your oil too hot?

[Parmas]

that's pretty fancy! -- is your oil too hot?

At least I am preventing it to be hot but as I said I am in doubt whether it will affect oil pressure.

[cali yaris]

Unless there is a leak, your oil pressure should be exactly the same.

[Tamago]

Unless there is a leak, your oil pressure should be exactly the same.

it depends on what part of the circuit he taps into for the cooler.

[Parmas]

it depends on what part of the circuit he taps into for the cooler.

My intension of a using dual circuit oil cooler is that of using half of it after the oil pan and the other half for the transimssion.

[Tamago]

you're going to cool the transmission gear oil? why?

[changchewsoon]

i think flex-a-lite is a very good brand as well, its a good choice parmas.

since it comes with a fan controller, you could skip installing an external controller like what i did. am using a pivot super temp here.

just curious, wouldn't you rather have a dedicated cooler for each engine oil and transmission?

[Parmas]

just curious, wouldn't you rather have a dedicated cooler for each engine oil and transmission?

You are probably right in saying this but you have to consider the limited space I have in here. I think this oil cooler with it's active cooling is capable of keeping temps as low as possible I can get. Also it would be rather more expensive to get 2 independent oil coolers than a dual circuit one.

Re: ceramic coating... I done some research and there are many that say is a good asset to own heat management. Here is quite difficult to find someone to do the job for you and I don't wish to risk sending all the parts abroad and never come back! Although I really wish this coating I will keep you updated if I could find one somewhere...

[Tamago]

so how are you going to pump the transmission gear oil through the cooler?

and "keeping the oil as cool as possible" is not smart. oils are designed to operate in a specific temperature range for them to be efficient. over-cool your transmission gear oil (not sure how you're going to pump it) and you'll end up with oil that just doesn't laugh, as you are heat cycling the oil constantly. leave the transmission alone, focus on the engine oil. if you want to keep oil pressures constant, i suggest cooling the oil coming OUT of the turbo (provided there is NO backpressure through the cooler).

[changchewsoon]

just to clarify, we're talking about manual transmission here and not automatic right?

[Parmas]

so how are you going to pump the transmission gear oil through the cooler?

and "keeping the oil as cool as possible" is not smart. oils are designed to operate in a specific temperature range for them to be efficient. over-cool your transmission gear oil (not sure how you're going to pump it) and you'll end up with oil that just doesn't laugh, as you are heat cycling the oil constantly. leave the transmission alone, focus on the engine oil. if you want to keep oil pressures constant, i suggest cooling the oil coming OUT of the turbo (provided there is NO backpressure through the cooler).

The choice of cooling the transmission is scrapped since the C160 can withstand high power and it is complicated to do aswell. Probably the oil cooler will be connected between the oil pan and the turbo.

Still trying to find someone who can do ceramic coating .....

[Tamago]

Probably the oil cooler will be connected between the oil pan and the turbo.

just be careful to not pressurize the return flow to the oil pan. seriously oversize those lines, as you will blow your turbo seals if there's any backpressure on the oil return line.

[Parmas]

just be careful to not pressurize the return flow to the oil pan. seriously oversize those lines, as you will blow your turbo seals if there's any backpressure on the oil return line.

What size do you recommend? Would oversize effect oil pressure?

[cali yaris]

you will blow your turbo seals if there's any backpressure on the oil return line.

true; done that.

[Tamago]

What size do you recommend? Would oversize effect oil pressure?

if the cooler is between turbo outlet and oil pan, oversize will not affect oil pressure.

it is highly UNrecommended to restrict oil coming back from the turbo, so if you do this, size it for 3times more than flow out of the turbo.

[m911gt]

I hate to add a pointless post to this great thread, but I need to subscribe.

Congrats on the progress Parmas and best of luck with the rest of it.

[cali yaris]

I want to see this car on the road soon. Please. :wink:

[Parmas]

I want to see this car on the road soon. Please. :wink:

Well today I tempted myself to take a drive. Got into the car and turned ignition on...

In the meantime some ppl were taking a walk just few metres away when suddenly they heard the loudy exhaust and stopped to figure out from where is this coming. Throttle up and a vitz just appeared humbling.
I was amazed for all ppl who stopped just for few seconds from their usual lifetime staring at the car backfiring on a stop sign.

The drive took only 15min and I can say they were the best minutes of my life! I really wish that there was someone available for video shooting the experience ...

[changchewsoon]

damn, just by reading your post im already wet~~~ :D :D

[Parmas]

Ok here is what remains for the setup to be finalized:

- Oil cooler :- Flexalite Thermostat active oil cooler 10 1/2" x 15" x 4" (1/2" Female NPT)

- Completition of Exhaust piping :- 2.5" stainless piping and Y shaped dual mufflers

- Aluminium Intake mainfold

- Ford Cosworth RS5 standard pressure regulator

- Upgraded Fuel Rail

- Ceramic coating on exhaust mainfold / turbo housing / downpipe

- Maybe upgrade valve and springs?

- Tial External wastegate ?

Hope I will get the money for all this within the next 2 months to finish!

BTW do any of you know a company in Europe that sells flexalite oil coolers?

[Parmas]

Today I found one person who could make ceramic coating for me. He said that the burner reaches 1000 Degrees Celcius for sure. I went to the stainless crafter and gave me a trial piping to test. Tomorrow will go and handle the metal and will see if this can be done! *I hope it works*

What do you recommend in coating apart Exhaust mainfold / Turbo / Downpipe... (Top cover?

[CASTREX]

All you need to coat is the turbo, manifold and downpipe... that's where the heat will be coming from.

[turboecho2005]

I can't wait to see it 100% complete and tuned with my old motor.. and 300+hp ;)

[changchewsoon]

hi parmas,

are you planning to recirculate your BOV back in to your air intake since you are retaining your MAF sensor?

im actually currently thinking of doing so, everytime the the BOV opens and vent the air off to atmosphere i noticed the afr from the wideband goes pig rich.

[Parmas]

hi parmas,

are you planning to recirculate your BOV back in to your air intake since you are retaining your MAF sensor?

im actually currently thinking of doing so, everytime the the BOV opens and vent the air off to atmosphere i noticed the afr from the wideband goes pig rich.

I don't think I will recirculate the BOV cause I love that bov sound :) I don't know if it's normal that the blow off can cause the engine rich maybe there is some setting in the ecu that is causing you this.

What ecu are you using? Does the afr signals this during release of pedal at a certain gear or during gear change?

[changchewsoon]

hi parmas, im currently driving an automatic and not a manual gearbox.

well, if you're retaining the MAF sensor like me then recirculating is the way to go. reason is the MAF has already measured the air that has passed through and signals the ECU to send fuel, when you close your throttle and your BOV vents the air out to atmosphere the MAF has no idea about it and hence you'll run rich.

and when you're in close loop the O2 sensor picks up a rich reading, it will signal the ECU to reduce fuel and also updates the fuel trim table as well. we don't want that in the long run.

im currently using the e-manage blue wired up with a MAP sensor. the e-manage will clamp the MAF voltage when boost comes in and will rely on the MAP sensor for readings to adjust fuel and to prevent the CEL from coming on.

however, from my wideband reading it shows that during low/partial throttle when the BOV vents I go rich. doing a recirculation and plumbing the air back to the intake after the MAF will help lot in the throttle response and increase the build up of turbo spooling.

i like the sound of the bov as well, even with circulation its actually quite loud especially if you're running a CAI setup. i actually prefer to run as quiet as possible, the sound doesn't mean a lot to me. i prefer to run faster ahead of the guy in traffic light without creating a lot of attention with the BOV.

venting to atmosphere is not suitable for MAF equipped cars unless you're running a MAP setup. alternatively, you could buy a MAF translator like one from HKS and you can remove the MAF all together. The E-Manage Ultimate does it as well, HKS F-CON VPro too.

[Parmas]

I do not know if recirculating will improve power since the air blown off by the bov is the uneeded air into the turbo piping. Also at that moment in time the engine is at closed throttle and recirculating the air maybe the same as forcing air into the engine when infact it doesn't need it now.

Taking this point now, why and what is the intention of having a bov when infact you want boost air to remain "ready" into the piping? Might aswell not having a bov at all and leave the boosted air into the piping. Well the reasons I guess are that you might blow a hose or force the air into the engine before infact it is needed.

Please correct me if there is something you disagree...

[changchewsoon]

hi parmas, i do agree with you that having a bov is important for turbo cars as without it when your throttle plate closes and the air would have no where to go but to hit back the turbine and causing surge.

what i was trying to suggest is that if your car setup still retains the MAF sensor it will be good to perform a recirculation from the BOV back in to the intake. Post MAF but pre turbo.

recirculating will not cause the air to be forced back in to the engine because your throttle plate is already closed. it will recirculate through the bov to the intake, back to the bov again to the intake and the cycle continues. hence its called "recirculation".

i know what you mean by removing the bov and having air to remain "ready" in the intake, well you can't remove the bov totally because if you do that you're gonna hurt your turbo in the long run.

however, with a recirculation setup most ppl will notice an increase in throttle response due to the fact that the air is "there" the moment your throttle plate opens. remember, its post MAF and pre turbo, so its just air circulating within your intake, you could call it close loop if you want, which many factory fitted turbo cars such as audi and VW is practicing. if you look at a stock turbo subaru or evo, you would notice they are running close loop intake as well.

my argument is that your MAF has already registered a certain amount of air passing through it and sends signal to the ECU to send fuel to match it, when you vent it out to atmosphere the ECU has no idea and hence you run rich.

the recirculation is not meant to improve power, it is meant to prevent MAF equipped cars to go rich every time you shift gears and messing up with your fuel trims. some cars will even stall between gear shifts if they do not perform recirculation.

im not saying it is a must for you to recirculate, im just suggesting that for MAF equipped cars recirculating is a better option rather than venting to atmosphere so you don't run rich, mess up your fuel trims and face chances of stalling thats all.

[cali yaris]

^ Very good explanation. On my car with standalone we have no MAF so no need for recirculated configuration.

[Nexus1155]

I thought clamping the MAF voltage makes it so that you don't have to worry about the MAF readings and that its just read from the emanage, so if it is clamped can you still use a BOV? I mean i know recirc valves are the way to go in all aspects, but you know, some rice is a little nice.

[changchewsoon]

the reason why we clamp the MAF is beause the moment you build boost past a certain stage the MAF gets saturated if it sends a voltage anything higher that 5v to the ECU then the ECU will throw a CEL. so the MAF clamp is good for WOT.

but when you're in closed loop, clamping the MAF has no effect as your ECU is relying on your stock O2 narrowband for feedback to maintain AFR at 14.7.

you could trying clamping your MAF at a fixed voltage across the entire RPM range, but im pretty sure you'll see your fuel trims will have a high readings of negative fuel trimmings in closed loop and if it maxes out or it can't pull fuel fast enough you'll get a too rich CEL.

you only start clamping when the MAF is nearing its limit, that usually happens around WOT unless you're boosting very high and the MAF itself is already maxed out during low/partial throttle.

some of the boosted yaris here uses the f-manage to control the afr in closed loop, im using the innovate lc-1 as it has a narrowband o2 output and its programmable.

we had a Toyota Wish here who uses a GT28 turbine and his stock MAF wasn't able to handle it even on low/partial throttle at low RPMS and his ECU kept throwing a too rich CEL even when the MAF is clamped. that is because during closed loop, his ECU wasn't able to pull fuel fast enough to maintain the 14.7 afr and he keeps going rich and when the ECU sees that it can't get the afr back to normal after a period of time it throws a CEL.

[rob323]

my argument is that your MAF has already registered a certain amount of air passing through it and sends signal to the ECU to send fuel to match it, when you vent it out to atmosphere the ECU has no idea and hence you run rich.

the recirculation is not meant to improve power, it is meant to prevent MAF equipped cars to go rich every time you shift gears and messing up with your fuel trims. some cars will even stall between gear shifts if they do not perform recirculation.


Some have speculated that it is unwise to run an atmo bov with a MAF as that extra richness during gear changes can wash or dilute the oil on the bores and cause premature ring wear and other associated long term problems.
+1 for recirculation, even better if the return piping from the bov can be somehow aimed at the turbo inlet inthe right way so that it helps keep the turbine speed up.

[Parmas]

Thanks for your info changchesoon I will consider recirculation if necessary... btw here are some shots from the ecu btw GoTech MFI proX (DATA WITHOUT ENGINE START)

[Parmas]

Someothers

[Nexus1155]

Hey chang when you say the fmanage, do you mean the F-con if so, which one, when i go onto ebay it looks like they are unprogrammable vehicle spacific... thanks for the help.

[taKuto]

f-con is different from f-manage. the f-manage is by greddy/trust.
http://www.nengun.com/trust-greddy/f-manage

[changchewsoon]

wow parmas, thanks for all the screenshots! think i'll need a while to go look at all of them, nice job by the way! :)

anyways, i've placed an order for a set of recirulation adapter for my SSQV. hopefully i will be able to get my recirculation done within 2 weeks time.

i will post up information here for sharing.

[changchewsoon]

Hey chang when you say the fmanage, do you mean the F-con if so, which one, when i go onto ebay it looks like they are unprogrammable vehicle spacific... thanks for the help.

hi nexus,

the fcon is a product from HKS,the fcon IS and the fcon SZ are piggybacks while the fcon VPro is a standalone ems.

the f-manage is a product from trust, it is a wideband O2 monitor and it also allows you to tune your car's closed loop by modifying the air fuel ratio signal the ecu is currently receiving from your O2.

i came across in the magazines that the japanese and taiwanese are using the f-manage to control the closed loop feedback of the skyline R35 as the r35 runs a full time closed loop system even when you're on WOT.

[Parmas]

made another video for you guys! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26ybxhzNxE4&feature=channel

[cali yaris]

cool. Why does it run so rough?

[supmet]

cool. Why does it run so rough?

haha, I was about to say "it looks like its about to shake a spark plug boot loose" and then 3 seconds later it did!

[changchewsoon]

nice video!

by the way, i just want to share that although my tuner thinks that doing a recirculation is the fastest and easier way, he provided an alternate option if i wanted to stay venting to atmosphere which is to perform a MAF sensor relocation to a pre throttle body and post bov location.

[Parmas]

cool. Why does it run so rough?

Motor running rich and idling is badly affected. Still working into it!

Also badly in need of upgraded rear mounting

Will update when I have more cash!

[Parmas]

Just a thought where I can get some information about general ecu mapping and tuning. I want to consider tuning my engine myself but I need to get the know how when and why etc...

If any of you have any link to some website or if any of you is already a tuner himself could give me any tips would be much appreciated!

[rob323]

nice video!

by the way, i just want to share that although my tuner thinks that doing a recirculation is the fastest and easier way, he provided an alternate option if i wanted to stay venting to atmosphere which is to perform a MAF sensor relocation to a pre throttle body and post bov location.

That will only work as long as the MAF doesn't also have the air temp sensor in it.

[Parmas]

Today I tried to understand by myself how to manage fuel and ignition. Well the tuning is fair easy to control and to manage but there are some things I still don't understand.

First I am confused what is the difference between micro fuel injection and normal fuel injection?

What about Injectors constant and latency values? From where do I get them?

Acceleration map, sensitivity and decay?

Second how could I understand when the ignition map is ok at that particular rpm? (In the ignition map shows constant ignition on all rpm loads)

What about ignition angle and coil charge time? Is there any need to change?

What is the best to reference on the mainfold air pressure sensor or throttle position sensor?

I know there are many questions here but I would be pleased if some of you can make me understand more as much on these!

[CASTREX]

Not to pull you back.... but,

With ALL the money and time that you have invested on this car so far... are you going to cheap out on the most critical stage????

If I were you I would go for a Pro tune...
You know you can kill your engine with a bad tune?? It would be a shame!

Is cool if you want to learn about tuning... but perhaps you can pick up a beater car and practice on an engine that you wouldn't mind to screw up.


Just my 2cents

[Parmas]

Not to pull you back.... but,

With ALL the money and time that you have invested on this car so far... are you going to cheap out on the most critical stage????

If I were you I would go for a Pro tune...
You know you can kill your engine with a bad tune?? It would be a shame!

Is cool if you want to learn about tuning... but perhaps you can pick up a beater car and practice on an engine that you wouldn't mind to screw up.


Just my 2cents

I totally agree with your response I just want to know if the tuner made everthing right regarding mapping and settings.

On the other hand if the tuner makes a bad tune himself I would be more shame to pay for his time (which is not cheap btw)

Also I am considering that if it happen to notice a misfire on a particular gear and rpm I would be able to set it myself.

I know I am not a tuner myself and I don't pretend to set all the rpm loads on all gears by myself

[CASTREX]

Good luck to you then! just be careful :thumbup:

[Nexus1155]

Today I tried to understand by myself how to manage fuel and ignition. Well the tuning is fair easy to control and to manage but there are some things I still don't understand.

Tuning is very easy as long as you have the knowledge, i suggest you go onto boards like romraider or pgmfi and start reading up on guides, it will help you greatly

First I am confused what is the difference between micro fuel injection and normal fuel injection?

What about Injectors constant and latency values? From where do I get them?

You need to find out what the stock latency is(probably can do it with an oscilloscope, and measure pulsewidth? i dont remember how they do it from scratch), but settings the latency is the proper way to size injectors... if i recall its (new inj cc/old inj cc * old latency = new latency) or something like that, the formula is everywhere

Acceleration map, sensitivity and decay?

I'm taking this could be throttle sensitivity map, only thing ive ever seen with decay is knock so i wouldnt play with that or your car might be jittery, but sensitivity should be 100 across the board. You let your foot do the judgement, it will feel like a totally different car, my truck became a monster after, and remember its all based on load, so you won't go WOT from just tapping the gas

Second how could I understand when the ignition map is ok at that particular rpm? (In the ignition map shows constant ignition on all rpm loads)
Depending on if you are controlling ignition with your management unit, a constant value across all load is very bad. You could either be losing power/fuel/damaging the engine... they can usually get a basemap if its wired from the ecu, if not they can get one from another 1nz-fe engine map thats not the yaris

What about ignition angle and coil charge time? Is there any need to change?

What is the best to reference on the mainfold air pressure sensor or throttle position sensor?
please clarify a bit

I know there are many questions here but I would be pleased if some of you can make me understand more as much on these!

I tried to give pack as much info as i could with the time i have right now, i didn't comment on some things, because i don't think you need to worry about them or need them

[Parmas]

Thanks for your answers ... here is the setup screen where you can select which load input the ecu has to refer on as primary input

You can refer to the previous page to see some screenshots maps from the ecu

[Nexus1155]

Well if you don't have a map sensor installed you can only do it based off the throttle position sensor....

but if you do have a MAP sensor that you added, it should be TPS for whatever is out of boost and MAP for when it hits boost. So it would be one of the bottom two...

[Parmas]

What do you think about ignition compared with fuel injection?

And btw what is micro fuel injection?

[cali yaris]

Tuners here don't let the car leave until the job is good and complete. I heard your motor in the video. Hopefully your tuner is not saying he's completed the job? :frown:

As CASTREX correctly says, this is the most important step of the game, and if it's done WELL, you won't have to do very much at all, and especially you shouldn't have to correct or fix something the tuner did wrong.

[Nexus1155]

It looks like a good management system, but it looks like it displays wacky, if it was just numbers it would be easier to view and easier to tune with. The injection looks fine, i don't know what AFR you are seeing, but ignition is wrong if in fact the harness is hooked up to control ignition...well see it also depends on how ignition is controlled on this management, thats whats weird, so i can't give you an exact answer, but on the video it definately sounds off if youre not cammed with a big lopey thing

[Parmas]

I wish to understand exactly why my motor is running bad idling.. The idling of my motor sometimes varies from 800rpm to 1300rpm... well I want to know what is the thing that makes this and what is related to.

I know that it's probably a tune up problem but what could be the things the tuner should consider... ignition maybe fuel or a sensor?

So I ask, what electric and mechanical components in a setup like mine should affect idling? What things you guys suggest me to check?

[Parmas]

Today got into discussion about the exhaust piping etc... and still not decided if dual or straight.

If a dual it would be Downpipe 2.5" / Middle Straight pipe 2.75" / Fish Tail 2.5" into same size inlet mufflers.

If single it would be Downpipe 2.5" / Middle Straight pipe 2.75" / Inlet muffler 3".

What do you guys suggest to choose in terms of performance?

[Parmas]

I am interested in buying the Perrin fuel rail for my 1NZ and from this week I couldn't find it anywhere for sale. Any of you guys know where to find it or is there any other brand that makes fuel rails for our engine?

[cali yaris]

I can get you the Perrin rail that's on my car if you want one, I'll get you a price.

4 cylinder? single exhaust. I have 2.5" all the way to the back, it's plenty of flow up to 20 psi.

[Parmas]

I can get you the Perrin rail that's on my car if you want one, I'll get you a price.

4 cylinder? single exhaust. I have 2.5" all the way to the back, it's plenty of flow up to 20 psi.

What is the reason of sale Garm?

[cali yaris]

sorry, I meant that I can get you one just like mine if you're interested.

[The Spectacle]

inline 4 cylinder? single exhaust.

this.

[cali yaris]

Parmas, you want the rail only or with the regulator and gauge?

[Parmas]

Parmas, you want the rail only or with the regulator and gauge?

That depends what regulator you are referring to?

Is it the same type and colour paint you are using in your setup?

[Parmas]

AEM Tru Boost and Uego Controller installed on dash!

Also installed and completed Twister exhaust will post pics of it later on...

Next installation.. Flex a lite oil cooler and custom made radiator

[cali yaris]

How's it running now?

[Parmas]

How's it running now?

Well the exhaust really made a difference in power especially during boost. It feels better in accelaration and now I can hear correctly the BOV blowing off!

Still needs map correction but it's lot better and no backfire were heared aswell!

Will update more later on...

[cali yaris]

how's the idle?

[Parmas]

Idle still running roughly between 1200 and 1500. When the custom radiator is finished I will update with more info.

The best I can make now is a video WOT ! Thinking what area will be best for shooting it!

[AlexNet0]

^please do, please please, WOT, video, lol

[Parmas]

Finally gathered some cash and time to make more mods to the car. Mods consisted in custom intake and reinforced rear mounting of the engine.

Because of few space in the engine bay this was the only efficient position for the airfilter to be placed and came pretty as I expected.
Regarding the mounting, It was too late to make pics and of course in a hurry to try it out so better luck next time :)

In the meantime still in the waiting list for tuneup! I am hoping for next week :)

[Tamago]

wow that's cramped! turbo in back + front mount = a pain in the ass... parmas, would you consider doing a top mount intercooler? you'll get better throttle response, less pressure drop, and an overall cleaner engine bay. if an STI can make 350whp+ on a top mount, so can you!

[Parmas]

I have never considered a top mount intercooler since I never liked the design.

In my case if I decided to top mount the ic I am sure that all the heat of the engine and the turbo together will make the ic useless and in the worst case engine damage. I don't exactly care of space, I give priority to performance and efficiency...

[Tamago]

I have never considered a top mount intercooler since I never liked the design.

In my case if I decided to top mount the ic I am sure that all the heat of the engine and the turbo together will make the ic useless and in the worst case engine damage. I don't exactly care of space, I give priority to performance and efficiency...

so you're saying that WRC rally cars are useless? most rally cars use top mount intercoolers. subaru uses top mount

don't be a fanboi... front mounts are overrated.

[TheRealEnth]

Top mount FTW

[cali yaris]

don't be a fanboi... front mounts are overrated.

pluses and minuses for both, but I always enjoy a good pissing contest, so carry on.

[lilredrocket]

Haha.

[Tamago]

pluses and minuses for both, but I always enjoy a good pissing contest, so carry on.

positives for top mount
1. less than half the piping
2. cleaner engine bay by simplifying piping and routing
3. puts that gnarly scooped hood to actual use
4. does not block radiator (engine runs cooler)
5. can be thicker than front mount because of Euro NCAP (more room under hood)
6. because of the shorter piping, you see less pressure drop and quicker throttle response
7. because it sits horizontally in the engine bay, it can be sprayed with water easily for quick cooling
8. not damaged by road debris

negatives for top mount
1. if improperly set up, will be less efficient at cooling than a front mount
2. it's not "cool" looking. many ricers equate turbos with front mounts, and if you don't have a front mount, you obviously aren't making any power (this really should be a POSITIVE THING not a negative thing lol)


Positives for front mount:
1. looks cool
2. can be generally longer than a top mount (however, short fat intercoolers are more efficient [less pressure drop] than long thin coolers

Negatives for front mount:

1. silly piping running all over the place (in the case of rear mounted turbos, which is what this is about.. in a longitudinal engine, i.e. supra, front mount is perfect because the exhaust is on the passsenger side and intake is on the driver.. obvious routing is obvious)
2. less efficient because of all the extra bends and charge piping bends. every time you go WOT the turbo has to fill the entire length of charge piping AND intercooler before you actually see boost. this can exascerbate turbo lag
3. attracts unwanted attention (law inforcement comes to mind)
4. susceptible to road debris
5. blocks radiator and AC condenser
6. safety may or may not be compromised (bumper beam hacked) to make the IC/piping fit


that's all i have folks.

[TheRealEnth]

tell it to em =D

[Parmas]

The only thing for me that comes to a disadvantage is turbo lag.. When I commited myself in this project I was ready to make sacrifices such as no AC and some fitment issues to the front (nothing big though).

In my case a top mount is not suitable mainly because of heat since it would be about few cm infront of the turbo exhaust plus it will be covered with excess heat emitted by the engine. If the turbo was on the rear lower side or at the lower front that would be a different story.

As in terms of space and organization of the engine bay, I see it more nice nd clean at the front which btw that is my opinion on my ride.

[cali yaris]

^ "attracts unwanted attention" and "susceptible to road debris"? LOL

[RacerFreakXXX]

I prefer a V mount intercooler, best of both worlds, rofl. Everything has its positives and negatives, imo you just have to find what setup works best for what you are using the car for. I don't know if that is even possible to put a V mount intercooler on the yaris seeing how short and stubby the front end is.

[Tamago]

^ "attracts unwanted attention" and "susceptible to road debris"? LOL

hit a nice chunk of retread on the freeway and you won't LOL

[PETERPOOP]

positives for top mount
1. less than half the piping
2. cleaner engine bay by simplifying piping and routing
3. puts that gnarly scooped hood to actual use
4. does not block radiator (engine runs cooler)
5. can be thicker than front mount because of Euro NCAP (more room under hood)
6. because of the shorter piping, you see less pressure drop and quicker throttle response
7. because it sits horizontally in the engine bay, it can be sprayed with water easily for quick cooling
8. not damaged by road debris

negatives for top mount
1. if improperly set up, will be less efficient at cooling than a front mount
2. it's not "cool" looking. many ricers equate turbos with front mounts, and if you don't have a front mount, you obviously aren't making any power (this really should be a POSITIVE THING not a negative thing lol)


Positives for front mount:
1. looks cool
2. can be generally longer than a top mount (however, short fat intercoolers are more efficient [less pressure drop] than long thin coolers

Negatives for front mount:

1. silly piping running all over the place (in the case of rear mounted turbos, which is what this is about.. in a longitudinal engine, i.e. supra, front mount is perfect because the exhaust is on the passsenger side and intake is on the driver.. obvious routing is obvious)
2. less efficient because of all the extra bends and charge piping bends. every time you go WOT the turbo has to fill the entire length of charge piping AND intercooler before you actually see boost. this can exascerbate turbo lag
3. attracts unwanted attention (law inforcement comes to mind)
4. susceptible to road debris
5. blocks radiator and AC condenser
6. safety may or may not be compromised (bumper beam hacked) to make the IC/piping fit


that's all i have folks.

not bias at all, of course.

[Tamago]

not bias at all, of course.

not at all..

let's see an intelligent bias in the other direction ;)

[rob323]

Don't you guys have access to barrel type water to air intercoolers over there? Best of both worlds.

[Tamago]

Don't you guys have access to barrel type water to air intercoolers over there? Best of both worlds.

only if you have a cold water supply (ice chest) in your car.....

[rob323]

These have proven very effective on high power street cars over here.
Low pressure drop, great throttle response, minimal time required to re pressurise the intercooler tract.
http://www.horsepowerinabox.com/HPIAB2/category76_2.htm

[PHXDEMON]

These have proven very effective on high power street cars over here.
Low pressure drop, great throttle response, minimal time required to re pressurise the intercooler tract.
http://www.horsepowerinabox.com/HPIAB2/category76_2.htm

only 1600 dollars. fuuuuuuck that :laugh:

[rob323]

Yes it's a lot of money but it is all relative (especially if you already have tens of thousands invested in your car).
But I suggested it for the concept, not that product specifically.

[cali yaris]

^
= $1,384 USD

You can now say f*ck that to THAT, but at least you'll be saying it to the right amount.

[Parmas]

These have proven very effective on high power street cars over here.
Low pressure drop, great throttle response, minimal time required to re pressurise the intercooler tract.
http://www.horsepowerinabox.com/HPIAB2/category76_2.htm

The product looks effective but for our engines is purely a waste of money.

[rob323]

It's the thought that counts.
Make up your own using bits from an old GT4 celica or a Subaru RS Liberty/ legacy. More than adequate for 300 hp and at a fraction of the cost and you still get all the benefits.

[cdydjded]

not at all..

let's see an intelligent bias in the other direction ;)

95% of the disadvantage of a top mount is heat soak. Heat rises, a top mount places the I/C right on top of a hot engine. If FMIC are so overrated why is there not 1 aftermarket turbokit offered with a top mount? Why do 8 out of 10 factory turbocharge cars come with front mounts, example:
FMIC
Supra
Evo's
Grand Nationals
GLHS
RX7
Golf
3000GT
Eclipse

TMIC
WRX
CELICA

[Parmas]

+1 to ^^^^

[Parmas]

Been about a month since my last post.... within this time these are the updates:

- Installed JDM (carbon fibre) adjustable fuel regulator .. http://ajpdistributors.com/unjdmfuprrec.html

- Upgraded custom fuel rail with return line

- Custom fitting with 3 barbs on the intake for independent mainfold pressure / BOV and Boost controller

Still having trouble with initial tuning between 1200 - 3500 rpm ranges.... will update with pics and videos next time

[botchilah]

Synpase Engineering / Synchronic BOV for the win!

I have had a SARD, Blitz, Apexi and HKS in my other car. Nothing great. The Synapse one really helped improve spool, response and eliminate compressor surge

[cali yaris]

A $27 no-brand fuel pressure regulator, for such a nice motor? Sorry, but I do not agree with that.

http://www.jegs.com/i/AEM/017/25-302R/10002/-1

would like to see what you did with the intake, though.

[Parmas]

A $27 no-brand fuel pressure regulator, for such a nice motor? Sorry, but I do not agree with that.

http://www.jegs.com/i/AEM/017/25-302R/10002/-1

would like to see what you did with the intake, though.


The regulator is branded JDM, a high quality japanese brand. The AEM regulator is sure one of the best and one of the pricest aswell. The AEM regulator is specifically designed for higher power engines than the 1NZ can handle and it's just too over spec.

Will post some pics later this week as we are limited in time and very occupied making it stable on Full Sequential Mode Operation

[cali yaris]

You are incorrect about the AEM regulator being "too over spec". There is no lower power limit for its use. I used it at 180 whp. And, like me, since you'd like to make over 300whp, it's an appropriate, proven and reliable part.

As for JDM Sport and product quality, maybe we should take a look at their turbo kit for $1399. Would you also put that on your car?

http://www.advancedjdmparts.com/product.php?productid=20971&cat=1164&page=1

[Parmas]

You are incorrect about the AEM regulator being "too over spec". There is no lower power limit for its use. I used it at 180 whp. And, like me, since you'd like to make over 300whp, it's an appropriate, proven and reliable part.

As for JDM Sport and product quality, maybe we should take a look at their turbo kit for $1399. Would you also put that on your car?

http://www.advancedjdmparts.com/product.php?productid=20971&cat=1164&page=1

You didn't understood right my previous post... I didn't say the AEM reg would not work with "low" power engines, I only mean that when one buy an AEM regulator he has in mind to go over 500bhp or else have some money to waste for the excess price compared to others.
My first preference was the RS5 Ford cosworth regulator use universally on tuned engines but it was out of stock here so we got the JDM one.

As for the link, if I would choose betwen the JDM kit and custom, I will go custom as I did of course :)

[cali yaris]

Well, we are all watching and waiting and cheering you on for a great tune and lots of power. Keep us all posted! Once a month is not enough!

[Parmas]

Today we had some time to continue tuning the engine although remain some minor things to correct and the tune will finally come to an end...

One of the problems we are getting is that the engine freak in between 1.5K - 2.5k rpm range during throttle. Beyond 2.5K till 6,2k the engine shows us some real power :)

Still on baby!....

[Parmas]

Here are some pics of the latest revision of the engine bay ....

[Parmas]

Finally tuneup finished at 9 psi because of the injectors duty cycle reaching 90% (Malta's bad octane fuel)

Small vid on the street http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwrk4sqAb1s

Cheers

[cali yaris]

What size injectors and what octane fuel?

CONGRATS MAN, enjoy it!!

no you can fix the left brake light :wink:

[lilredrocket]

Sweet!!!! Having fun crusing around town?

[Parmas]

What size injectors and what octane fuel?

CONGRATS MAN, enjoy it!!

no you can fix the left brake light :wink:

340cc injectors probably used on stock celicas.... fuel octane bad as below 90... Although with every full tank I fill up 1 litre octane booster.

I will fix for sure the brake light... Within these months I was too busy looking at the engine bay instead :)

Next mods DEI silicone spray on the exhaust mainfold/downpipe/turbo ceramic + DEI Titanium best wrapping out there.
In need of upgraded front suspension + semi-slics tires...

Just booked some drag races for next weekend :)

[cali yaris]

^ nice, can't wait to see your times! going to be QUICK!!

[changchewsoon]

your car looks and sounds great my friend!

now, may i suggest a set of water/methanol injection kit? :)

[Parmas]

Thanks changchewsoon that will be an option for the coming future but still not in need since my intercooler hold intake temps below 25c @ 9psi.

First option will be upgrading to larger injectors maybe 632cc ones then upping the boost to finally another good tuneup session

[changchewsoon]

is your current injector size insufficient? i bought FIC 445cc injectors but have not used them yet.

[Parmas]

is your current injector size insufficient? i bought FIC 445cc injectors but have not used them yet.

Correct... the injectors are about 86% duty @ 6000rpm @ 9psi. We were surprised since they are rated above 300bhp. That depends your octane mixture you are giving to the engine so if we manage to use higher grade fuel we will manage higher power with same duty cycle on the injectors.


Update : Toyo Semi-slics 195x50 888 tires were installed on all 4 wheels. Gained more handling stability and traction :)

[CASTREX]

Update : Toyo Semi-slics 195x50 888 tires were installed on all 4 wheels. Gained more handling stability and traction :)

Nice :clap:

[Parmas]

Well got my hands dirty again removing downpipe and several connections to prepare them for thermal wrapping etc... and I began wondering about the braking system.

During the last runs I noticed that the braking of the car takes too much to come to a stop also when not driving that fast. I am suspecting that the heat generated by the turbo exhaust chamber is causing the "compensator" situated just few cm behind to overheat o-rings inside. I am thinking of moving the hole part to the right (front view) but that makes some more work and more expenses... I also thought of coating it with silicone spray which is designed for extreme temperatures like turbos.

What do you suggest me to do?

[cali yaris]

make a little insulated "heat box"

[Parmas]

make a little insulated "heat box"

What do you mean by a heat box?

You have to note that it is really tight in there!

[cali yaris]

I'll try and take a pic from mine

[Parmas]

I'll try and take a pic from mine

That would be appreciated!

By the way what oil do you use for your motor Garm?

I use Sunoco racing oil full synthetic 10/60

[Parmas]

Hard time to remove exhaust but finally coming to an end!

Turbo exhaust chamber, downpipe and exhaust manifold coated with DEI silicone high temp resistance paint. After paint dry wrapped turbo and downpipe with DEI titanium wrapping. Hopefully to get better engine bay temps.

Next......

- Finishing some wiring organization
- Red paint to engine cover and turbo/intercooler tubing
- Adding sandwich adapter for oil temp and pressure

[cali yaris]

Parmas, here is the insulation box I made for the fuel system. Just a thought. You could do the same thing for your brake cylinder in the engine bay -- or anything else. This is pretty stiff aluminum with insulation on one side:

http://www.microimageonline.com/images/garm/insulation-fuel.jpg

[Parmas]

Thanks for the idea garm will check on it surely...

[Parmas]

Some enhanced new looks.... All paint is designed to work above 500DegreesF.

Next completition of new coolant piping which will be come blue...

Also done lots of shielding at the back panel area to protect brake lines from overheating.

[cali yaris]

Looks good man!!

[advocate]

God this thread rocks.

[Blown_xa]

positives for top mount
1. less than half the piping
2. cleaner engine bay by simplifying piping and routing
3. puts that gnarly scooped hood to actual use
4. does not block radiator (engine runs cooler)
5. can be thicker than front mount because of Euro NCAP (more room under hood)
6. because of the shorter piping, you see less pressure drop and quicker throttle response
7. because it sits horizontally in the engine bay, it can be sprayed with water easily for quick cooling
8. not damaged by road debris

negatives for top mount
1. if improperly set up, will be less efficient at cooling than a front mount
2. it's not "cool" looking. many ricers equate turbos with front mounts, and if you don't have a front mount, you obviously aren't making any power (this really should be a POSITIVE THING not a negative thing lol)


Positives for front mount:
1. looks cool
2. can be generally longer than a top mount (however, short fat intercoolers are more efficient [less pressure drop] than long thin coolers

Negatives for front mount:

1. silly piping running all over the place (in the case of rear mounted turbos, which is what this is about.. in a longitudinal engine, i.e. supra, front mount is perfect because the exhaust is on the passsenger side and intake is on the driver.. obvious routing is obvious)
2. less efficient because of all the extra bends and charge piping bends. every time you go WOT the turbo has to fill the entire length of charge piping AND intercooler before you actually see boost. this can exascerbate turbo lag
3. attracts unwanted attention (law inforcement comes to mind)
4. susceptible to road debris
5. blocks radiator and AC condenser
6. safety may or may not be compromised (bumper beam hacked) to make the IC/piping fit


that's all i have folks.


good points. A top mount will never provide the efficiency of a front mount though. The main reason WRC Subarus use a top mount is so the intercooler doesnt get ripped off landing crazy jumps. And WRC cars im pretty certain don't run on pump gas, so they don't need the cooling efficiency to supress detonation.

There is a forumula to calculate temperature drop vs. pressure drop. The benefits of temperature drop far outweigh pressure drop. And also the general formula to see the benifits of temperature drop in the charge stream. For every 10 degree drop is a 1% gain in hp. That may not sound like much, but a good example is my car... I ran no intercooler but with WMI. My MAF sensor temp probe was reading up to 280 degrees @17psi (Blow through set-up, before meth).

I just dropped in a Evo intercooler, The charge temps are now the same as ambient, in fact on a few dyno pulls during my last tune the temperature DROPPED a few degrees when boost hit. That's over a 200 degree drop...
At the same boost with the same timing I gained 25whp and 32ft.lbs. of torque. Also my spool up is within 200rpm as before, that isnt even noticable.

I have installed many front mount kits on STI's and Mazda speed 6/3's. Tuning past 250whp (with top mount) on our dyno is like pulling teeth for gains because of the heatsoak. To prevent risk of detonation more timing needs to be pulled. Any good tuner would agree to that. Even the Cobb base maps for the MS3 are specified for either a top or front mount(more conservative timing for top mount).

One thing I constuctively dissagree with is that the engine bay is cleaner with a top mount... I don't think so. Especially with the yaris and Ms3. Just about the only place for the top mount would be on top of the engine cover. I always found it to be a pain to have to remove pipes to service the car. They are routed to where you have to remove them to check spark plugs( which is something to be checked often on a aftermarket boosted car). And on the Subie you have to remove the intercooler to service the transmission /turbo/downpipe. The newer Subies have a smaller sized top mount with composite casing which makes life easier for working on the car, composite casing is for less heatsoak.

I say front mount.

good build, and whp numbers yet?

[advocate]

So if front mount creates huge turbo lag and top mount spools faster but hotter (and thus less boost), how the hell do you pick which one you want? Sounds like very big drawbacks on both parts.

I would think a larger engine, which creates more overall exhaust, wouldn't suffer as much from excess lag from a front mount versus a Yaris which burns much less overall fuel. Correct?

[Parmas]

Job finally finished although it came dark for a good photo... Will get some good photos with all completed...

Next -> lots of tuning and increasing gradually some boost :)

Still not dynod car so I don't want to throw numbers until finished

[Blown_xa]

sweetness

[Blown_xa]

So if front mount creates huge turbo lag and top mount spools faster but hotter (and thus less boost), how the hell do you pick which one you want? Sounds like very big drawbacks on both parts.

I would think a larger engine, which creates more overall exhaust, wouldn't suffer as much from excess lag from a front mount versus a Yaris which burns much less overall fuel. Correct?

read my above post. There is no noticable lag.

[rob323]

So if front mount creates huge turbo lag and top mount spools faster but hotter (and thus less boost), how the hell do you pick which one you want? Sounds like very big drawbacks on both parts.

I would think a larger engine, which creates more overall exhaust, wouldn't suffer as much from excess lag from a front mount versus a Yaris which burns much less overall fuel. Correct?
You are over simplifying it a fair bit. Both setups can be made to work as good as each other and it depends on what purpose you want to design it for. There's alot of variables to be taken into account though to get it right (eg. piping diameter, bends, pressure drops, turbo sizing and efficiency ranges, gear ratios, cam design/ duration/ timing, engine timing, bov design etc etc).

And if all else fails, turn the antilag on :burnrubber:

[cali yaris]

ha, true! just do it my way, that's the best. (just kidding!)

[Parmas]

Some recent pics...

Damn the camera got low battery when I was taking a video. Better luck next time....

[mario98c]

Post Videos!!!!!

[yaris-me]

It looks mean. Does it sound mean?:thumbup:

[cali yaris]

awesome hood, very aggressive.

I would like to see (when you have time) a closer pic of the BOV flange, it looks interesting.

Also interior - any gauge set up?

[blacksandiegovitz]

awesome hood, very aggressive.

I would like to see (when you have time) a closer pic of the BOV flange, it looks interesting.
Also interior - any gauge set up?

Look like a standard HKS bov flange to me , ie the bov sits in the circle flange and is held in with a C-clip .

Amazing project man :thumbup: I've been following your build and am stoked to see you finally got it all together in the car and running I can't wait to see the dyno #'s

[changchewsoon]

wow parmas, your car looks great!! its a job nicely done! the intercooler is so sexy!

[Parmas]

Thanks guys I appreciate your comments and these are what keep me updating!

The BOV flange is the standard HKS weld on flange as described blacksandiegovitz in his post.

RE: Yaris-me post... well it sounds awesome as described by many here although I need a good camera for you to enjoy the sound :tongue:

I don't think of dyno it for now but will not miss a video on street.... Please let me enjoy it a while !!!:wub:

BTW here is a shot from inside incl. my lovely girl

[Parmas]

Today I went up to a drag race to check how all is working out. Well it was noticed that injectors are maxing out at (about 98% inj duty cycle) 9psi 6000rpm with an average afr of 11:1.

Well although the car runs fine I am sure I will not get a good time with this low boost (thinking of 14s blehh). What do you recommend about the injectors, Brand? ***cc? Type?

I think garm can help me on this :)

Also engine gives startup problems when cold or when not using it for a half an hour or so? Sometimes needs 3 starts to ignite, is this normal or the plugs are too on the cold side?

Thanks!

[cali yaris]

what plugs, and what gap? The gap can make a difference.

11:1 is on the rich side, you'll get a better result around 11:7

sorry, what management again?
Is your car using the ECU's stock cold-start program?

[Blown_xa]

nice. I am curious about final results.

These injectors should work well... http://www.ptuning.com/html/search-result.cfm?cmbPriceRange=&cmbCategory=engine&cmbSubCategory=fuelin&MakeModel=tC&Brand=dw&cmbYear=

they will drop right in and use factory plugs.

Do you have the stock fuel pump?

[Parmas]

what plugs, and what gap? The gap can make a difference.

11:1 is on the rich side, you'll get a better result around 11:7

sorry, what management again?
Is your car using the ECU's stock cold-start program?

Plugs are Denso Iridium power IK series. Gap is 0.4mm with 5Kohm resistor. Part no is IK22#4

Management is Gotech PROX full standalone, stock ecu not used. Ecu has a map for startup fuelling appropriately adjusted by tuner. I just want to assure that problem is not coming from plugs heat range.

RE: Blown_xa injectors link... why you say "should work fine" are they tested before on a 1NZ?

RE: Air to fuel ... can anyone tell me the appropriate range the afr should be at :

- Idle 1200rpm
- 2Krpm until boost
- above 3500rpm after boost?

Also, since I am considering replacing the injectors to above 600cc, does the engine will startup up rich or lean with a fuel map tune on 340cc inj?

See attachment from a log run at first gear @ 6Krpm ..injector duty are 98%

[cali yaris]

.4mm is .0157 inches. Mine were gapped at .028 and we brought that down to .024 when tuning on the dyno. I think your gap is very tight!

A/F on my car:
Idle: 14.1-14.7
Cruising: 13.0 - 13.5 is the range I've seen, more or less
under boost: 12.5 down to 11.7 at full boost, depends on load etc.

hope that helps.

[cali yaris]

Also, since I am considering replacing the injectors to above 600cc, does the engine will startup up rich or lean with a fuel map tune on 340cc inj?

you'll be under 5% duty cycle at idle, so could be a little rich, might need more tuning all around. Overall though, your management should maintain correct A/F.

[Blown_xa]

yes when I mean "should work fine", i mean as long as your fuel management can handle the increased size. The injectors themselves will drop right in. Same denso casing as factory. Depending on your projected whp choose between the 550's and 750's. Im thinking 550's would be plenty considering you have a return set-up. :smile:

[Parmas]

.4mm is .0157 inches. Mine were gapped at .028 and we brought that down to .024 when tuning on the dyno. I think your gap is very tight!

A/F on my car:
Idle: 14.1-14.7
Cruising: 13.0 - 13.5 is the range I've seen, more or less
under boost: 12.5 down to 11.7 at full boost, depends on load etc.

hope that helps.

What Brand are the plugs? Thus this gap difference might be related to octane difference? I am running 90 octane so sure your fuel ignites better so thats what might the gap serve for!

Thanks for that afr reading garm, I never seen 12s on either level! BTW you are sure that these readings are good for lower octane level fuel?

What do you think about the TC injectors Garm? Do you recommend these for my setup? Is there anyone using them on his motor?

[Blown_xa]

the tC injectors (factory) would be ok for low boost. I was not able to get past 149whp with them as they maxed out. Seeing as you have a return set up im thinking they can put out more juice.

As far as AFR ratio and octane rating, timing is what is most important to optimize power and to prevent knock/detonation. The only way to optimize timing is on the dyno though. AFR should be targeted the same regardless of octane rating.

We tuned 2 customers tC's for 400whp, one with 91 octane (what was readily availible to that customer) and one with 93 octane. AFR were the same, timing is what has to be adjusted(less timing for 91)

[Parmas]

I don't know how much do you mean by low boost but since I built the engine it's none sense to stay low boosted!

I am projecting 16psi on a Garret T28 though!

[Blown_xa]

I don't know how much do you mean by low boost but since I built the engine it's none sense to stay low boosted!

I am projecting 16psi on a Garret T28 though!

oh yea factory tC injectors would be way too small. 550's would be good

[changchewsoon]

Hi Parmas,

Just want to share with you that I purchased a set of 445cc customized injectors from FIC for my rebuilt next month, but I can't tell you whether they'll work great until its in.

Am already thinking they might be too small as I'm not converting to a return setup? :(

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_RQcAxTVtNRs/Sj-eYElxPmI/AAAAAAAABFg/lvDTo729o6o/s400/FIC-3.jpg

[90tsi]

this may sound out there but there was an article in turbo mag a year or 2 back and it had an equation that you could use. dont quote me exactly but if i remember right you could plug in displacement,horsepower goal, and a few other factors and it would get you a good estimate of what cc injector you needed.

[Parmas]

Hi Parmas,

Just want to share with you that I purchased a set of 445cc customized injectors from FIC for my rebuilt next month, but I can't tell you whether they'll work great until its in.

Am already thinking they might be too small as I'm not converting to a return setup? :(

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_RQcAxTVtNRs/Sj-eYElxPmI/AAAAAAAABFg/lvDTo729o6o/s400/FIC-3.jpg

Mine are 340cc with a return setup running rich at all times @ 10psi. So the 445cc should work fine till 250BHP.

[Parmas]

Finally we decided what injectors will suit best and we chose the Siemens Deka 4 630cc.

These injectors flow 220 lbs/hr at 43.5 PSI ( 3 BAR ) and more at higher PSI! These units are low-impedance and require peak and hold injector drivers or additional resistors for saturation drivers. Despite the high flow rate, they are linear and controllable at low pulse widths compared to other extreme flow injectors! These injectors are sometimes referred to as 212lb/hr or 225lb/hr injectors

Any has experience on these?

[schleppy]

Finally we decided what injectors will suit best and we chose the Siemens Deka 4 630cc.

These injectors flow 220 lbs/hr at 43.5 PSI ( 3 BAR ) and more at higher PSI! These units are low-impedance and require peak and hold injector drivers or additional resistors for saturation drivers. Despite the high flow rate, they are linear and controllable at low pulse widths compared to other extreme flow injectors! These injectors are sometimes referred to as 212lb/hr or 225lb/hr injectors

Any has experience on these?

If I remember correctly, these injectors were pretty popular with WRX guys.

[Parmas]

Well that's good news since that increase the probability of being ones of the very best racing injectors one could own.

I hope they are efficient as advertised as these will probably be a good indeed upgrade. Bye Bye tuning probs :)

[Parmas]

Some pictures of the rear mounting. Sorry about the blured image but the camera sucks at close ups!

[Parmas]

UPDATES:

UPGRADED INTERCOOLER HOSES TO SAMCO RED :)

SHOWING CUSTOM BLUE WATER HOSES ASWELL

TRD CAP

[cali yaris]

cool, very colorful -- what throttle body is that?

[Parmas]

cool, very colorful -- what throttle body is that?

Stock 1NZ one

What do you think about the rear mounting I posted before garm?

[yaris-me]

Sexy engine! You need a pink dip stick to set it off!:smile:

[Parmas]

Sexy engine! You need a pink dip stick to set it off!:smile:

OR >>> Garm's Intake Mainfold :biggrin:

I'm waiting . . .


BTW just found this on my pc :biggrin: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0wage2LBdM

[Parmas]

This week we installed Siemens Deka 4 630cc injectors. Since the Siemens housing length is slightly different from original toyota injectors they needed to be "modified" to match the fuel rail.

Now needs tuning from scratch, I hope it makes real power with these on :bow:

[cali yaris]

ooh man can't wait for new results!! I have great hopes for this project!

[Parmas]

ooh man can't wait for new results!! I have great hopes for this project!

My tuner just called in to tell that tomorrow will trial the car for some drag races. I am expecting 16psi or more boost with better AFR numbers than the previous tune.

Guess what? ..... if all goes well I think I will be the one to trial the Gude Performance Head package on our 1NZ. I already send him an e-mail to get some more details on cams....

Stay tuned!

[cali yaris]

You're drag racing tomorrow? or tuning tomorrow, or both... ? :iono:

[Parmas]

You're drag racing tomorrow? or tuning tomorrow, or both... ? :iono:

Both :) Since we tune specifically on drag road for a precise and realtime tuning...

[cali yaris]

oh "street tuning", gotcha.

[Parmas]

Some bad news.... :frown:

Yesterday we done a compression test since we are still having trouble idle and slow runing the engine. Well it result that 2 cyclinders are loosing compression and probably some valves not sealing properly...

There is also a problem to convert the engine with the authorities (due to some changes in law) since there is a fine difference due to bigger displacement (probably within $2000 range:eyebulge: ) So we are now intending to modify the 2NZFE 1.3L engine block to match the 1NZFE rods and in the meantime solving aswell the problem of the compression. We have to measure all the necessary points of the block in order to make this happen....

This will cost lots of money & time and since I am out of cash it will be a while to update my status....

[cali yaris]

aw, so sorry to hear this. Do you think the motor came to you with these problems?

Is this your first compression test on it???

[Parmas]

aw, so sorry to hear this. Do you think the motor came to you with these problems?

Is this your first compression test on it???

It was checked the compression after we opened it to check all things right and found loosing. The problem should have been solved by then but it seems that it isn't infact.

I am thinking of making a 2NZFE block conversion to match the 1NZFE rods. Since the 2 blocks have the same bore size of 75mm, what issues (if there are) I could face doing this? Is there something I need to know before I get into it or else is it possible to make it without much complications?

[turboecho2005]

aw, so sorry to hear this. Do you think the motor came to you with these problems?

Garm... and can assure you and Parma, that the motor had excellect compression when we sold it.

[Parmas]

Garm... and can assure you and Parma, that the motor had excellect compression when we sold it.

I am not saying that the engine was defective when sold.

When the engine arrived, it was opened and checked that all parts match the details. After assembling a compression test was made and marked loosing. The mech said they solved it and I continued to finally tune in. When we noticed having several idle and slow running problems we checked again to be sure and found loosing again.

I think there is a funny thing around and someone fu**ed me from behind on this

[cdydjded]

A proper test that would have determined the condition of this engine is not a compression test, its a leak down test. A compression test only tells you the compression psi in the cylinder chamber but it does not telling you if the piston rings or valves are sealing correctly. BTW how much vacuum was you boost guage reading at idle?

[Parmas]

A proper test that would have determined the condition of this engine is not a compression test, its a leak down test. A compression test only tells you the compression psi in the cylinder chamber but it does not telling you if the piston rings or valves are sealing correctly. BTW how much vacuum was you boost guage reading at idle?

Vacuum was -20 if I remember correctly.

Tell me more about this leak down test

[cdydjded]

Here is a good article:
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/116_0406_cylinder_leakdown_tester/index.html

My car is @ -22 so -20 is not that different. You low compression issue could be one of the following problems:
Piston ring end gap wrong
Piston to cylinder wall clearance wrong
Valve to valve seat problem
Crack or broken ring lands
These are just a few that I can list. Im not saying it has to be one of these, but its a possibility.

[Parmas]

Here is a good article:
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/116_0406_cylinder_leakdown_tester/index.html

My car is @ -22 so -20 is not that different. You low compression issue could be one of the following problems:
Piston ring end gap wrong
Piston to cylinder wall clearance wrong
Valve to valve seat problem
Crack or broken ring lands
These are just a few that I can list. Im not saying it has to be one of these, but its a possibility.

Nice test I didn't know about it since now. Interesting tool ... what brand do you recommend?