WHY do I want one so bad?

[YarisOwnersDad]

Ever since going with my son, Wes, to help him negotiate a deal on a new Yaris on Monday, March 16, 2009, I have not been able to get the Yaris off of my mind.

I had never paid any attention the the Yaris before, but after helping Wes get his, I have been wanting to get one for myself. The Yaris is such a cool little car!

I have a nice 2008 Cobalt sedan that I bought new less than ten months ago, and I was perfectly happy with that car until I was introduced to the Yaris.

The Cobalt has more interior room and more trunk room, has a 50% bigger engine (2.2L vs. the Yaris 1.5L) with almost 50% more horsepower (Approx 150 vs 106), has very good ride and handling qualities, and gets decent gas mileage (about 27 MPG for my overall driving mix).

So, why do I want a Yaris so bad? I would definitely trade for one, if I had not just bought that Cobalt ten months ago. I would do so knowing that the gas savings would not come close to justifying the trade.

Let's say that my overall 27 MPG would become 35 MPG with the Yaris. I drive about 18K miles per year, so I would buy 514 gallons of gas per year with the Yaris vs. 667 gallons with the Cobalt. This savings of 153 gallons of gas at two dollars per gallon is only an annual savings of $306. That is certainly not economic justification for trading cars.

It would definitely feel good to think that I had spared the environment the consequences of burning 153 gallons of gas, and I would know that I had made that small contribution toward lessening our dependence on foreign oil. Also, as I understand it, for every gallon of gas the Yaris burns, it emits less harmful substance than would be the case for almost any other car. So, the Yaris would not only consume fewer gallons of gas, but would also burn the gas that it does consume more efficiently and do less polluting.

That's it! I MUST convince my wife that it is my duty as a responsible inhabitant of this planet to trade my new Cobalt for a new Yaris!

Tom

[tuckevalastin]

I certainly wouldn't make that trade if I were you but we all have different priorities.


Moral of the story... Do your research first

[mrbond]

I'd go for it. Sure, you'd save "only" $306 a year, but after about five years, it does add up. Plus, in general (notice how I say in general, not an absolute statement) GM's products tend to crap out around the 80-90K mark. Toyotas, though, are reliable and very cheap to maintain. You definitely would be doing the planet a favor by ditching the Cobalt.
Plus: the Yaris is much more fun to drive and modify than a Cobalt IMO.

[tomato]

Tom,

Did you want us to encourage you or talk you out of it? Well, you posted so I'll give you my 2 c.

If you really want a Yaris that bad, then do what you need to do. That's why people buy jewelry, or trips to the Islands or what not. Sometimes you gotta make yourself happy and it's hard to put a price on that.

However, in my opinion (and again, it's just my opinion) looks like you are trying to rationalize the purchase even though you *know* it doesn' t make good economic sense. It's that new car smell, going to the dealership, etc., that's gotten into you right now.

If I were you, I would keep driving your 9 month old (practically new!) car another year or two, and wait for the new and improved Yaris, maybe with 1.8 L? You may not think so now, but you might miss that extra power if you trade in now.

Just my 2 c. :iono:

[tk-421]

I would also do the swap. Considering the state GM finds itself in at the moment, the car's value might go down dramatically within the next few months.

[eTiMaGo]

resistance is futile, you will be yarissimilated!

but seriously, don't forget, in your calculations, gas prices are not likely to stay this low forever...

[SpaceShot]

Maybe you just need to tell Wes that he needs to let you have his new keys 1 Saturday for each time he borrowed your keys in the past...
That should get you plenty of weekend trips ;-)

I put on twice the annual mileage you do, and I found that the Yaris would pay for itself over my old ride at $3.71 per gallon. (fuel savings = monthly loan payment)
Over the last year I have saved money for 6 months and spent money for 6 months. (NOT including spending on accessories...)

[Loren]

FYI, you can hypermile your way to about 40 mpg in the Cobalt:
http://www.hypermilingforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=909

Conversely, if you drive the Yaris around town like you stole it, you'll only get 28-30 mpg (or less).

If you want to "save the planet", don't encourage the car makers to build yet another car because you keep buying them! Drive the one you have as efficiently as possible and "use it up". Or at least drive it until it's more economically feasible to sell it.

The Cobalt is rated at 35 mpg on the highway... the Yaris is rated at 36. Prudently driven, you should be able to get that much in city driving with either car. Arguably, with more torque from the 2.2, it might even be easier to get better city MPG with it. In any case, either car driven in the same manner will likely return the same fuel economy within about 2 mpg.

The benefit of the Yaris is (we all hope) Toyota reliability, and a smaller and more nimble car.

[tomato]

resistance is futile, you will be yarissimilated!



:bellyroll:

[YarisOwnersDad]

I don't think I will be getting a Yaris, but they are definitely nice little cars. I know I need to hang onto the Cobalt for at least another year or two. I would take too much of a beating on trade-in after only nine months.

Loren, I drove the Cobalt VERY conservatively when I first got it, and with my normal mix of driving, I could only realize 28.0 to 29.5 MPG. Wes's Yaris got 33+ on its very first tank of gas. I have no doubt that driven the same way over the same roads, the Yaris would get several MPG better mileage than the Cobalt. But, that is reasonable, I guess, because it is a smaller car with a smaller engine.

I got tired of driving like an old lady and just began driving normally. (My "normal" mode is not hot rodding or running up on red lights and slamming on the brakes, then taking off like a jack rabbit.) My gas mileage fell off by about a mile or mile and a half to the gallon when I quit trying to milk every mile per gallon out of a tank of gas.

I was just kidding about trading strictly for environmental reasons, although it would feel good to know that my driving was doing less harm to the environment.

I suppose I will do the sensible thing and hang onto the Cobalt.

I appreciate all the replies.

Tom

[YAR1S]

would you get a yaris if you traded in your cobalt? :/ I say trade... it improve's the quality of life, lol!

gotta be happy driving your tank.... or RC car around.

[tomato]

I don't think I will be getting a Yaris, but they are definitely nice little cars. I know I need to hang onto the Cobalt for at least another year or two. I would take too much of a beating on trade-in after only nine months.

...


I was just kidding about trading strictly for environmental reasons, although it would feel good to know that my driving was doing less harm to the environment.

I suppose I will do the sensible thing and hang onto the Cobalt.

I appreciate all the replies.

Tom

Yeah, that's the main thing: the depreciation cost is the highest in the first couple of years. :frown:

Just borrow your son's car from time to time!

:burnrubber:

[brainless twit]

Just a couple things:

First, I had a 2006 Chevy HHR that I totaled in November. I still owed about $12k on the loan and found it was only worth about $5k. A three year-old car with low miles, and it was worth nothing! GMs simply do not hold their value like foreign cars do. To me, if you are going to trade, you should do it sooner rather than later. Right now a 2007 Cobalt is only worth about $7k according to NADA, so imagine what yours will be worth in another year or so. A 2007 Yaris trades for about $10k.

Second, I think I told you via PM that I used to drive a Honda Accord. When I traded that car, it was 15 years old. It had over 300,000 miles. Someone working at Jim Johnson in Bowling Green bought it for a few hundred dollars, put about a thousand into it, and is still driving it as far as I know. These cars last forever! I never had to do a single thing to my Accord other than brakes, tires, and oil changes. In the two years I had my HHR, I had to replace the fuse panel, the mechanism for the power windows, and other miscellaneous repairs.

I'm not one to push someone to spend more money, but you already know these are awesome little cars. There are definitely reasons to buy one if that's the path you choose.

[PetersRedYaris]

Listen to the brainless twit :laugh:, depreciation actually is a major factor and could save you a lot over the years. Plus, she's right about all the miscellaneous little problems you will experience with a GM... Do the right thing. :biggrin:

[frownonfun]

i'd wait for an improved yaris like tamato said. you'll be glad you did i think. you have a possible 1.8 and a hybrid. and who knows we might actually get some nice aero kits here in the states eventually.

[cfiimei]

Look at the condition of 10 year old Cavaliers, then look at the condition of 10 year old Camerys or Corollas... The Cavaliers look like crap (those that are still running), and the Toys look almost new. My father has a 97 Camery that I wouldn't trade for a NEW Malibu or Cobalt.

[AlexNet0]

You know you want one...

DO IT, do it do it do it!

[PETERPOOP]

TOYOTA>EVERYONE

[1NZYaris1]

take your sons Yaris for a week or 2 , then see where you stand .
personally i would wait till next year when the new model is released .
which should be the 1.8 for the US market.

[roxy1]

depreciation is the exact reason to avoid this transaction. you could turn that $14,500 yaris into a $19,000 yaris with the massive loss you'd take on a cobalt. the best thing to do with cars that depreciate fast like the cobalt is drive them into the ground. thats where you will get your moneys worth.

[YarisOwnersDad]

OK, you guys who are encouraging me to trade are preaching to the choir. It's my WIFE who needs convincing. :cry:

I do appreciate all the replies, the serious and the not so serious.

One problem with trading at that same dealership where Wes bought his car is that they already have a 2007 Cobalt LS on their lot, and they might not be willing to give me as much trade-in on my 2008 Cobalt LS because of that. The one on their lot is white, just like mine.

Another big problem, and I sure don't want to hurt any feelings, is that the ONLY color on the Yaris that really floats my boat is the deep red metallic, like Wes's car. He wouldn't appreciate my buying a car exactly like his right down to the color. I have not seen in person all of the different colors that you can get on a Yaris, so maybe there would be one that I would like pretty well, though.

Here's another factor in this whole thing ... Hudson Toyota gives a lifetime power train warranty on the cars they sell with unlimited mileage! As long as I might own that little Yaris, Hudson would stand good for the power train, even if the car had 300,000 miles on it.

Tom

[YarisOwnersDad]

Ok, what's this about an "improved" Yaris and a 1.8 ? Will the 1.8 still get the same great fuel economy as does the current 1.5? I'll do some searching, but if someone wants to whup a link to some info on the new Yaris on me, it would be appreciated.

Tom

[eTiMaGo]

Ok, what's this about an "improved" Yaris and a 1.8 ? Will the 1.8 still get the same great fuel economy as does the current 1.5? I'll do some searching, but if someone wants to whup a link to some info on the new Yaris on me, it would be appreciated.

Tom

it's speculation really... Europe has a 1.8L version of the car with more power and slightly reduced fuel efficiency. It is not very likely you'll see it in the US as Scion sells the xD which is essentially the same car but with a different look...

[YarisOwnersDad]

Hey, I wonder if I could turn the dealership's having a 2007 Cobalt LS on their lot into an advantage when it comes to getting the most trade-in allowance on my 2008 Cobalt LS?

I could have someone pretend to be interested in the 2007 and ask them for their best price on it. I could then use that as ammunition when I am negotiating the trade-in allowance on mine. I realize that they have to make a reasonable profit on the trade-in when they try to sell it, but I could allow for that in my negotiating with them.

Tom

[frownonfun]

i'm still thinking you should keep your cobalt. i mean it's really more comparable to a corolla than a yaris. it's not a bad looking little car either. plus i know people will give you the 80-90k lifespan propaganda about your chevy but in reality it's not that bad if you take care of it. i love toyota but they aren't perfect either. i've seen plenty of POS camrys and corollas driving around too. plus GM isn't gonna collapse like some may think. they are going through a rough patch no doubt but to think that they are just gonna cease to exist any time soon is silly. plus you don't have to necessarily keep your cobalt til the end of time... just until you get a little closer to payoff.

just my 2 cents.

[yaris-?]

Hey dad (or anyone) how does a Cobalt have more trunk room than a Yaris ? I'm considering a new Cobalt LS or a Yaris or Prius or Honda Insight II ...

[YarisOwnersDad]

Yaris-?:

The Cobalt is more of a compact, while the Yaris is more of a subcompact. With the Cobalt, you will get more front seat room and more trunk room at the expense of a few miles per gallon on gas mileage. You will also find that that 2.2 L Ecotec engine will kick some butt. I couldn't believe the power that little Cobalt has the first time I kicked it down.

I have no complaints with the Cobalt. It's just that I fell in love with the Yaris, and I DO believe the reliability factor favors the Toyota over the Chevy.

Tom

[YarisOwnersDad]

i'm still thinking you should keep your cobalt. i mean it's really more comparable to a corolla than a yaris. it's not a bad looking little car either. plus i know people will give you the 80-90k lifespan propaganda about your chevy but in reality it's not that bad if you take care of it. i love toyota but they aren't perfect either. i've seen plenty of POS camrys and corollas driving around too. plus GM isn't gonna collapse like some may think. they are going through a rough patch no doubt but to think that they are just gonna cease to exist any time soon is silly. plus you don't have to necessarily keep your cobalt til the end of time... just until you get a little closer to payoff.

just my 2 cents.

Common sense definitely says that I should keep the Cobalt. I have never been accused of having a lot of common sense, though. :biggrin:

I probably will not trade at this time.


Tom

[tomato]

it's speculation really... Europe has a 1.8L version of the car with more power and slightly reduced fuel efficiency. It is not very likely you'll see it in the US ...

:cry:

[roxy1]

Ok, what's this about an "improved" Yaris and a 1.8 ? Will the 1.8 still get the same great fuel economy as does the current 1.5? I'll do some searching, but if someone wants to whup a link to some info on the new Yaris on me, it would be appreciated.

Tom

ive got the 2009 corolla w/ a 1.8l engine, and it achieves mpg's very similar to the yaris and is a considerably heavier car. i dont see why that engine in the yaris wouldnt return even a little better mileage.

i think the next gen yaris will be here in 2011. if you are patient, you may like it even more.

[supmet]

ive got the 2009 corolla w/ a 1.8l engine, and it achieves mpg's very similar to the yaris and is a considerably heavier car.

I didn't believe you at first, my 99 was ~2300 pounds if I remember correctly, but the 09 is over 2700.... that's a little dissapointing

[JBougie]

I can't remember exactly where I saw this ... but I heard a crazy rumor about GM possibly going under.

I just don't think Toyota was mentioned in that story.... :)

lol

Toyota Yaris > Anything GM

[roxy1]

I didn't believe you at first, my 99 was ~2300 pounds if I remember correctly, but the 09 is over 2700.... that's a little dissapointing

the 09 corolla didnt get much longer than the 9th gen (if at all), but got a little wider. along w/ added standard safety features/sound insulation, hard to avoid the weight gain. but, its pretty quiet and smooth riding for an eco car. still i get about 1.5-2 mpg less than i did w/ my yaris on the same route, same driving style, so that new 1.8 engine is very efficient. would love to see it in the next gen yaris.

[talnlnky]

Ever since going with my son, Wes, to help him negotiate a deal on a new Yaris on Monday, March 16, 2009, I have not been able to get the Yaris off of my mind.

I had never paid any attention the the Yaris before, but after helping Wes get his, I have been wanting to get one for myself. The Yaris is such a cool little car!

I have a nice 2008 Cobalt sedan that I bought new less than nine months ago, and I was perfectly happy with that car until I was introduced to the Yaris.

The Cobalt has more interior room and more trunk room, has a 50% bigger engine (2.2L vs. the Yaris 1.5L) with almost 50% more horsepower (Approx 150 vs 106), has very good ride and handling qualities, and gets decent gas mileage (about 27 MPG for my overall driving mix).

So, why do I want a Yaris so bad? I would definitely trade for one, if I had not just bought that Cobalt nine months ago. I would do so knowing that the gas savings would not come close to justifying the trade.

Let's say that my overall 27 MPG would become 35 MPG with the Yaris. I drive about 18K miles per year, so I would buy 514 gallons of gas per year with the Yaris vs. 667 gallons with the Cobalt. This savings of 153 gallons of gas at two dollars per gallon is only an annual savings of $306. That is certainly not economic justification for trading cars.

It would definitely feel good to think that I had spared the environment the consequences of burning 153 gallons of gas, and I would know that I had made that small contribution toward lessening our dependence on foreign oil. Also, as I understand it, for every gallon of gas the Yaris burns, it emits less harmful substance than would be the case for almost any other car. So, the Yaris would not only consume fewer gallons of gas, but would also burn the gas that it does consume more efficiently and do less polluting.

That's it! I MUST convince my wife that it is my duty as a responsible inhabitant of this planet to trade my new Cobalt for a new Yaris!

Tom

If you want to trade to be more green... All the power to you, and I stand behind you. If you want to trade cause it is cool.... just sell your car when its like 10k miles away from being out of warranty.

I do think that your calculations are off however for yearly gas savings. Gas is $2/gal right now. my guess is that it'll be at least $3/gal by 4th of July. Prices always go up during the summer months.

[BLAZINBLUEVITZ]

if that cobalt was a SS id keep it......

[YarisOwnersDad]

if that cobalt was a SS id keep it......

Naw, it's just a stripped down LS.

Tom

[BLAZINBLUEVITZ]

Naw, it's just a stripped down LS.

Tom

dropped like yesterday's newspaper if that was mine.....

[YarisOwnersDad]

Still having a hard time shaking the thoughts about the Yaris, despite all the practical reasons that I should keep the Cobalt.

Does anyone know what the rebate will be after today? Today is officially the end of the current $1000 rebate. Will it be extended as is, increased, decreased, or completely done away with? I almost hope it goes away, and then I could quit thinking about trading. :iono:

Tom

P.S.

Does anyone have a REAL GOOD picture of a Yaris sedan in Flint Mica? I have done some looking in the Owner's Garage section, but I haven't looked at every page.

P.P.S.

OK, I guess it is called the Photo-Media-Video section where I have been looking.

[tomato]

Tom> Sorry, I don't have the answer to your question. But if you today is the last day for that rebate, sounds like you're gonna have a long day ahead of you arguing the pros and cons! :bonk: Good luck with your decision ! :biggrin:

[YarisOwnersDad]

Tom> Sorry, I don't have the answer to your question. But if you today is the last day for that rebate, sounds like you're gonna have a long day ahead of you arguing the pros and cons! :bonk: Good luck with your decision ! :biggrin:


Thanks, "Mater."

Tom

[roxy1]

i wouldnt worry about the rebate. as long as car sales are so slow, i expect the rebates to continue.

FWIW, Kelly Blue Book: a 2008 cobalt LS, 4 door automatic w/ 15k miles shows an $8200 trade (excellent condition) down to $7700 (good condition). dealers rarely will give the excellent value on a trade. that is some brutal depreciation. unless you paid close to 9k-10k for your car, you will take an absolute beating on a trade. plus, w/ GM facing a likely bankruptcy, it could be even worse. you might end up w/ a 21k yaris. i like the yaris quite a bit, but only as a sub $15K car.

[YarisOwnersDad]

Help me out here, People. Please, let me hear your opinions as to the MPG I could realistically expect to get with my normal driving mix.

Here's what my normal tank of gas would see. I drive 24 miles each way to work and back five days a week. The two miles at the work end of the trip are in town, the other 22 miles are on rural two lane roads with a few hills and curves and a couple stop signs. I drive about 60 MPH on these roads.

I also drive about 8 miles round trip in town at lunchtime five days a week. There are usually just a couple short trips on weekends, like to church and back, or maybe to the store.

When in town, I try to coast up to redlights in hopes that that the traffic will clear before I have to come to a complete stop, and when I do get caught by a light or have to stop at a stop sign, I don't do jackrabbit starts.

I don't "hypermile," but I don't hotrod either. Well, as peppy as my little Cobalt is, I HAVE to play once in a while, but I don't make a habit of it. :burnrubber:

Given what I just said, what would you guys expect that I would get for MPG with a Yaris sedan with auto tranny on a normal tank of gas?

Also, is the possibility that GM could "go under" a factor that I should consider in this decision? I still have over 20,000 miles of original warranty on tha Cobalt, but what if GM goes out of business? What about future resale value?

Thanks.

Tom

[tomato]

To Tom: I don't know what to tell you, seems from your posts that you are really torturing yourself over this, but I will say this much in case it helps.

I traded in my old Honda CRX mostly because of fear (not that the manufactuer would go under, in my case it was mostly fear that she wouldn't SMOG, and that she would fall apart at the seams - I had to fix the front with duct tape to hold it together among other things)

I still have somewhat mixed feelings about trading in when I did, because I think the CRX could have gone a while longer while I was looking for the "perfect car" for me. It really was just fear that pushed me to close the deal quickly rather than waiting for the best opportunity to come along. I could probably have waited a few more months and gotten a different color or an updated model or even a different car (oooooh, I'm gonna get some nasty comments for this!! lol)

You know how it is, anyway. No matter what you get (whether its a car, or a jacket or whatever) there is always something better than comes along the minute after the money changes hands, it's like an unwritten rule or something (sigh).

Nobody can tell you what to do. Nobody knows what the future holds, or what's going to happen to GM, or whatever.

Personally, I believe there is always another deal and another opportunity and it's not the end of the world if you wait a while. But I'm not in your place. Also, you have to consider your wife's feelings in that regard. Does she want to spend the money? or is she going to make your life hell for a while if you buy the Yaris, lol?

Good luck and let us know what you decide! If you buy the Yaris, we're gonna want pictures!! :)

PS. Note to self, dump GM stocks. JK

[tomato]

PS I didn't say anything about gas mileage because I'm not even sure what I get with the Yaris. Whatever I get, I"m happy with, let's put it this way. I don't think there is any car out there (except maybe hybrid?) that's going to give me a whole lot better so why bother thinking about it. Sorry, don't have any MPG data.

[YarisOwnersDad]

To Tom: I don't know what to tell you, seems from your posts that you are really torturing yourself over this, but I will say this much in case it helps.

I traded in my old Honda CRX mostly because of fear (not that the manufactuer would go under, in my case it was mostly fear that she wouldn't SMOG, and that she would fall apart at the seams - I had to fix the front with duct tape to hold it together among other things)

I still have somewhat mixed feelings about trading in when I did, because I think the CRX could have gone a while longer while I was looking for the "perfect car" for me. It really was just fear that pushed me to close the deal quickly rather than waiting for the best opportunity to come along. I could probably have waited a few more months and gotten a different color or an updated model or even a different car (oooooh, I'm gonna get some nasty comments for this!! lol)

You know how it is, anyway. No matter what you get (whether its a car, or a jacket or whatever) there is always something better than comes along the minute after the money changes hands, it's like an unwritten rule or something (sigh).

Nobody can tell you what to do. Nobody knows what the future holds, or what's going to happen to GM, or whatever.

Personally, I believe there is always another deal and another opportunity and it's not the end of the world if you wait a while. But I'm not in your place. Also, you have to consider your wife's feelings in that regard. Does she want to spend the money? or is she going to make your life hell for a while if you buy the Yaris, lol?

Good luck and let us know what you decide! If you buy the Yaris, we're gonna want pictures!! :)

PS. Note to self, dump GM stocks. JK

You will definitely see some pics, if I pull the trigger on a deal for a Yaris.

Tomster

[roxy1]

even if you pull 40 mpg in a new yaris, i believe you will never recover the losses of that trade. for example, at 17k miles per yr and 28 mpg in the cobalt, you will spend $1214/yr in gas. at 40 mpg in yaris, you will spend $850/yr in gas. so, you will save $364 per year. after 10 yrs and 170,000 miles, you will have saved $3640 in gas by driving the yaris. that wont even come close to covering the trade loss if the cobalt only trades for $8000.

assuming you paid about $14k for the cobalt and you really dont mind losing $6,000 on a trade and you have your heart set on the yaris (which it sounds like you do) then, hey, its your money. you may want to visit a dealer and see what they would realistically give you on a trade.

GM is not going to go under. they will either get bailed out or, more likely, file for bankruptcy. the resale on a cobalt is already awful to the point that you will never get much money for it. the only value you will get out of it is to drive it until it cant go any more.

this isnt like trading in a 1 yr old toyota or honda after 1 yr, where you would still get very good value for the trade. the cobalt lost about $6k in value in only 1 year.

sorry, just trying to be the voice of reason. drive that cobalt into the ground for 10 years. by then, there will be all types of new fangled hybrids and who knows what else pulling 70 mpg's.

[YarisOwnersDad]

Yeah, Roxy, I know all that you are saying makes sense.

This is a battle between my head and my heart. My head says all the same things that you are saying, and my heart says go get that Yaris. :smile:

Tom

[brainless twit]

I think I told you this already, can't remember, but since my 5,000-mile oil change, I've been averaging 41-42 mpg without even trying. Before the oil change I got 35 or so. I'm no granny driver but I'm pretty reasonable behind the wheel unless I get behind a coal truck. Usually 60-65 mph on 431.

For the most part, we're driving on the same roads. I'm guessing you take 70 to work since you aren't going on the parkway?

I do agree with the posters who said that the difference in mpg isn't enough to justify the car. It would be more because you just want it. Not that there's anything wrong with that!

What kind of mileage is Wes getting?

[YarisOwnersDad]

I think I told you this already, can't remember, but since my 5,000-mile oil change, I've been averaging 41-42 mpg without even trying. Before the oil change I got 35 or so. I'm no granny driver but I'm pretty reasonable behind the wheel unless I get behind a coal truck. Usually 60-65 mph on 431.

For the most part, we're driving on the same roads. I'm guessing you take 70 to work since you aren't going on the parkway?

I do agree with the posters who said that the difference in mpg isn't enough to justify the car. It would be more because you just want it. Not that there's anything wrong with that!

What kind of mileage is Wes getting?

Thanks for the post, Twit.

Wes isn't really all that much "into" gas mileage. I mean it is important to him to have a car that gets good mileage, but it is not important to him to know exactly what mileage he is getting. So, he "estimates" his mileage by assuming he has used 11 gallons of gas, since he runs the tank way down to the last bar on the gauge. He divides whatever miles he has driven since the last fill-up by 11. He has gotten 370 to 380 miles on his first couple tanks. We all know that he is not really using 11 gallons of gas, so if we assume he is using ten gallons, then his mileage is about 37 or 38 MPG. Not bad at all!

Tom

[tk-421]

MPG is definitely not enough to justify the trade. But what about service and maintenance costs? The Yaris is very inexpensive in that area as well. As for GM? I'm not so sure...

[YarisOwnersDad]

even if you pull 40 mpg in a new yaris, i believe you will never recover the losses of that trade. for example, at 17k miles per yr and 28 mpg in the cobalt, you will spend $1214/yr in gas. at 40 mpg in yaris, you will spend $850/yr in gas. so, you will save $364 per year. after 10 yrs and 170,000 miles, you will have saved $3640 in gas by driving the yaris. that wont even come close to covering the trade loss if the cobalt only trades for $8000.

assuming you paid about $14k for the cobalt and you really dont mind losing $6,000 on a trade and you have your heart set on the yaris (which it sounds like you do) then, hey, its your money. you may want to visit a dealer and see what they would realistically give you on a trade.

GM is not going to go under. they will either get bailed out or, more likely, file for bankruptcy. the resale on a cobalt is already awful to the point that you will never get much money for it. the only value you will get out of it is to drive it until it cant go any more.

this isnt like trading in a 1 yr old toyota or honda after 1 yr, where you would still get very good value for the trade. the cobalt lost about $6k in value in only 1 year.

sorry, just trying to be the voice of reason. drive that cobalt into the ground for 10 years. by then, there will be all types of new fangled hybrids and who knows what else pulling 70 mpg's.

Roxy:

My Cobalt stickered for $15,530, and GM had a $2000 rebate in effect at the time. So, I got the Cobalt for $13,530 minus about $400 that the dealer knocked off. I had accumulated about $1800 earnings on my GM credit card, which I used on the Cobalt. So, I got the car for $11,330. I let them have my little 89 S-10 pickup with 219,XXX miles on it for $500, and I was able to avoid the $200 repair bill on its air conditioner, so I effectively got $700 for the truck. (I was having the air conditioner on the S-10 fixed when I bought the Cobalt.) So, with my trade-in allowed for, I got the Cobalt for $10,630 plus tax and license.

I get $8962 when I run the Cobalt through Edmunds.com's used car appraisal program. I figure I can get the dealer to over-allow on the Cobalt by a few hundred bucks, or else knock something off the sticker on the Yaris.

The sticker on the Yaris I want, which is equipped exactly like my son's Yaris, is $16,514. Knock the $1000 off that from Toyota and assume that the dealer will give me $9500 for the Cobalt (or else knock $500 or $600 off the Yaris and give me $9000 for the Cobalt), and I am looking at trading for a difference of $6000 plus tax and license. Who knows, they might give me $10,000 on the Cobalt, allowing me to trade for $5500 plus tax and license. Payoff on the Cobalt is about $10,500, so I am not too badly upside down on it.

Tom

[frownonfun]

i too have been trying to be the voice of reason but i gotta admit sometimes you just gotta throw reason out the window and do what you really want to do... just get the yaris. it's only money and you can't take it with you.

[roxy1]

since you owe 10500 on the cobalt, you wouldnt get hurt that bad IF you got 9500+ on the cobalt. but, dealers often like to use kelly blue book as a template, in which case youd be closer to 8k. once you find out what the deasler will actually give you, it will be much easier to mke a decision.

[YarisOwnersDad]

since you owe 10500 on the cobalt, you wouldnt get hurt that bad IF you got 9500+ on the cobalt. but, dealers often like to use kelly blue book as a template, in which case youd be closer to 8k. once you find out what the deasler will actually give you, it will be much easier to mke a decision.

Right, Roxy. The BIG factor here is the trade-in allowance. As you say, what they tell me might make my decision a very easy one to make, if they low ball me.

Tom

[brainless twit]

since you owe 10500 on the cobalt, you wouldnt get hurt that bad IF you got 9500+ on the cobalt. but, dealers often like to use kelly blue book as a template, in which case youd be closer to 8k. once you find out what the deasler will actually give you, it will be much easier to mke a decision.

Actually, every bank and dealership I've ever dealt with uses NADA.

Wes isn't really all that much "into" gas mileage. I mean it is important to him to have a car that gets good mileage, but it is not important to him to know exactly what mileage he is getting. So, he "estimates" his mileage by assuming he has used 11 gallons of gas, since he runs the tank way down to the last bar on the gauge. He divides whatever miles he has driven since the last fill-up by 11. He has gotten 370 to 380 miles on his first couple tanks. We all know that he is not really using 11 gallons of gas, so if we assume he is using ten gallons, then his mileage is about 37 or 38 MPG. Not bad at all!

That's about the same amount I was getting in the beginning. I'm now getting 470 miles per tank, assuming that there are 40 miles left when I get down to one bar (per the manual). Still, when divided by 11, that's closer to 43 mpg. Excellent mileage after my HHR, which is built on a Cobalt frame, that got 27ish.

[roxy1]

some will looks at NADA as well, but not always as their only tool. KBB, NADA, auction house averages. the bottom line is, the trade is worth whatever a dealer will give you for it. im almost all cases, you will be better served to sell the cobalt yourself.

[YarisOwnersDad]

some will looks at NADA as well, but not always as their only tool. KBB, NADA, auction house averages. the bottom line is, the trade is worth whatever a dealer will give you for it. im almost all cases, you will be better served to sell the cobalt yourself.


That's for sure, Roxy. People often have unrealistic expectations on their trade-ins. They forget that the dealer can go to car auctions and buy cars just like the ones they are trying to trade-in for wholesale prices. The dealer has to be able to make a profit on the car we trade-in, so he cannot give us retail price for it.

Selling the old car oneself is often not possible, because that would require that two loan payments be made each month until the old car is sold. Also, it can be a real pain to try to sell a car. People with absolutely no intention of buying will come look at it, test drive it, and then make some ridiculous offer. Others will be truly interested but will need to sell their own car first. I say let the car dealers put up with all of that, and I will take what they are willing to give me on trade-in, if they make a reasonable offer.

Tom

[YarisOwnersDad]

Looks like the rebate is gone. When I checked Edmunds.com and got pricing on a Yaris, the rebate did not show up. Yesterday was the last day for the $1000 rebate, but I thought they would continue it or maybe even increase it.

Maybe the new rebate just hasn't been announced yet?

If there really is no rebate, then my decision is very easy: I will keep the Cobalt.

Tom

[roxy1]

can you/would you drive a stick? do you like the hatch? if so, the 3 dr manual tranny hatch is the cheapest option. under $13k (no power windows/locks-no big deal w/ only 2 doors) would be very easy i would think with gas prices still low. to me that is the the yaris w/ the best value. at $15k-$16k, you could get a honda fit (if you like hatches) or a corolla (if you like sedans). quite honestly, those are just way more car than a yaris, but those cars cant be had for anywhere near $13k. the hatch is what makes a yaris unique (sorry, sedan owners). plus, the stick will be more fun to drive. not to mention, the stick will return better real world mileage if you know how to drive one. look here:

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/calculatorSelectEngine.jsp?year=2007&make=Toyota&model=Yaris (stick owners average about 4 mpg higher than auto owners.

hmmm....where did that voice of reason go:iono:

[YarisOwnersDad]

Roxy:

Yeah, I can drive a stick shift vehicle, and sometimes they are actually fun to drive, like the six speed 94 Z28 Camaro I once owned, for instance. Most of the time, though, I am very glad to have an automatic.

It's the sedan that I'm crazy about, Roxy. I like having four doors AND a trunk.

There is nothing wrong with my little Cobalt, so keeping it is not the end of the world, if that's the way this turns out.

I completely understand what you are saying about the Yaris being at its maximum value in the hatchback form and that once you are up to $16K, you might as well buy the Corolla, except I wonder how close the Corolla would come to the fuel economy of the Yaris?

Tom

[Yaris Hilton]

Well, I can see no advantage to the Corolla personally. One thing that is a big advantage to the Yaris IMO is that it's Japanese built. A politically incorrect thing to say in the US now, I suppose, but I'm happy to have an all-Japanese car.

[tomato]

One thing that is a big advantage to the Yaris IMO is that it's Japanese built. A politically incorrect thing to say in the US now, I suppose, but I'm happy to have an all-Japanese car.


+1 :thumbsup:

[roxy1]

except I wonder how close the Corolla would come to the fuel economy of the Yaris?

Tom

well, i can answer that apples to apples. i traded my 2007 yaris hb manual transmission for a 2009 corolla manual transmission. on the exact same routes with the same driving style, i average 1.5-2 mpg's less than my yaris did. during the spring/summer/early fall i avg 39.5 mpg (calculated, not on my mileage computer, which runs 1-2 mpg high) )with the corolla on 80% highway and light suburban driving. so, the yaris holds very little mileage advantage.

as for the advantages over the yaris sedan, the telescoping wheel and height adjustable seat on the corolla makes for a very comfortable seating position. the car is decidedly much quieter and smoother on the highway. that bit of extra torque is noticeable (something you would REALLY notice going from the cobalt to a yaris). the clutch and shifting action is much smoother, a dream compared to the bizarre uptake and notchy shifter on the yaris. it rolls less around turns. the one single advantage of a yaris sedan is for $15k you would be able to have power windows/locks (and maybe cruise), where a $15k corolla would be a base model w/o these. i added power locks/keyless entry for $300, so i just miss out on the PW. i paid $14900 for the corolla.

having said that, a telescoping steering wheel would have kept me in my Yaris hatchback. it looks unique, the mileage was great, and i had fun driving it. it was just very uncomfortable for me on trips over 15 minutes.

as for being japanese built, my yaris definitely came with more rattles than my corolla. japanese workers arent as die hard loyal as they were a decade ago. they dont have lifetime job security like they used to and toyota and honda have had unprecedented layoffs in japan in the past year. there has been much press in japan about how disgruntled toyota's assembly line workers are due to increase workloads. the quality control is the same at TMMC and NUMMI as it is in japan. in fact the TMMC plant in canada, which has made the corolla since 1988, has won seven plant quality awards. most of the 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th gen corollas sold in the usa were built at one of those two plants and those corollas clearly have a reputation for reliability and longevity. built in japan or canada or california is a non issue, imo.

i doubt if anyone would cross the next gen yaris off their list just because it was going to be built at TMMC in Canada. (just an example. don't know where it will be built)

[DanQ]

Doing the trade for gas mileage purposes is a real waste of money.
Look at it this way, by NOT trading in on the Yaris you save $6,000.

Apply those $ to gas (at 17k miles per yr 28 mpg in cobalt =$1214/yr in gas) and its like getting FREE GAS for the cobalt for almost 5 years!

In 5 years there will be a lot more interesting choices to replace the cobalt..
maybe....http://www.aptera.com/look.php

[tomato]

... the clutch and shifting action is much smoother, a dream compared to the bizarre uptake and notchy shifter on the yaris. it rolls less around turns. ...

as for being japanese built, my yaris definitely came with more rattles than my corolla. japanese workers arent as die hard loyal as they were a decade ago. they dont have lifetime job security like they used to and toyota and honda have had unprecedented layoffs in japan in the past year. ...


You make some great points. I didn't think of that, thanks :thumbsup:

[Yaris Hilton]

No rattles in my family's 3 Yaris sedans, or any other QC faults I've been able to find.

[Mad Goon]

I have a 71 Comet with a "mild" ;) 302 (comp cam, little headwork, forged internals (.030 over, the usual) among other things... While the car is obviously fun in a straight line, my wife's Yaris certainly has a higer fun quotient around the corners.. But with 40 years of technology, why wouldn't it? lol Either way, the car made me look at Toyotas in a different light.

[YarisOwnersDad]

Well, I stopped at the dealership where we bought Wes's car, and I asked them to work up something for me. They didn't even drive my Cobalt, because I guess they know it only has 15K miles on it and is obviously in perfect condition. I'm sure they would take it for a spin just to be sure, if we ever get down to brass tacks.

I didn't want to hang around and let them work up a deal, then start the haggling process tonight. I was on my way home from work, and I just wanted them to get the process started. I told them I would call them tomorrow.

They don't have a Flint Mica Yaris on their lot, and I still have not seen one in person. They did have a black one that was equipped just like Wes's car, except for the little rubber strip on the back bumper, the $79 option. I could easily live without that. They really wanted me to buy that car, but I held out for a Flint Mica. There are two of them at a dealership about 50 miles away, and they told me they work out trades with that dealership all the time.

I would be all over that deep red metallic, if my son's car wasn't that color.

I still don't know what I will do, but at least I can let them work something up. Maybe that will cure me of this "car fever." They will probably make some ridiculous low ball offer on my trade-in.

Oh, they said the $1000 rebate has been extended.

Tom

[tomato]

The suspense is killiing me!! ;) :bonk:

Not surprised they extended the offer, though.

(My 2 c about the little black rubber thingy in the back: I don't think it's worth the $79 at the dealership. I was going to get it but when I saw how small it is and it only covers half the surface it's supposed to protect, I walked away from it, too. I bet there is some aftermarket part you can find that does the job better, in the meantime careful when you load stuff in the trunk because the paint does scratch somewhat easily.)

[YarisOwnersDad]

The suspense is killiing me!! ;) :bonk:

Not surprised they extended the offer, though.

(My 2 c about the little black rubber thingy in the back: I don't think it's worth the $79 at the dealership. I was going to get it but when I saw how small it is and it only covers half the surface it's supposed to protect, I walked away from it, too. I bet there is some aftermarket part you can find that does the job better, in the meantime careful when you load stuff in the trunk because the paint does scratch somewhat easily.)

Stay tuned, then, Mater, and we shall see what we shall see.

If I do trade, I will do so knowing that it makes no economic sense. It will just be a victory for the heart over the head.

But, you know what, it will feel GOOD to be sending my money to a car company (via a financial institution) instead of adding to the profits of the oil companies.

I would be very surprised if they made me an offer that I could live with, so the odds are way in favor of my keeping my Cobalt right now.

I'm with ya on the bumper protection. If the car had it, that would be fine, but if it doesn't, then not a big deal. Those two Flint Micas at the other dealership must have it, because their stickers are exactly the same as was my son's car's sticker price, $16,514.

Tom

[tomato]

If I do trade, I will do so knowing that it makes no economic sense. It will just be a victory for the heart over the head.


And there is NOTHING wrong with that. :thumbsup: It's just a small car, not a castle in England or something ;)

So you've stepped into the :evil: dealership :evil:now... will you come out with or without Yaris car keys? :drool: ahhh the suspense ... :biggrin:

I WILL stay tuned. This is far more interesting than primetime TV :wink:

Don't mind me, I'm just having a bit of fun.
Did you test drive yet, or just crunch numbers?

[YarisOwnersDad]

And there is NOTHING wrong with that. :thumbsup: It's just a small car, not a castle in England or something ;)

So you've stepped into the dealership now... will you come out with or without Yaris car keys? :drool: ahhh the suspense ... :biggrin:

I WILL stay tuned. This is far more interesting than primetime TV :wink:

Did you test drive yet, or just crunch numbers?


No need to test drive, my friend. I drove Wes's car to the body shop to get that mailbox paint removed, so that was my test drive. (Was it in this thread that I told everyone about the mailbox incident?) The shop was only a couple miles from my workplace, so I just drove his car to work that day and left it at the shop. They gave me an old car to get me to work and back to their shop when the Yaris was ready.

Tom

[YarisOwnersDad]

This is what I am driving now. It would not be the end of the world to keep driving it a while, if things don't work out on the Yaris.

It is not because of any dissatisfaction with the Cobalt that I have this itch to trade for a Yaris.

Tom

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y145/tsjay/Cobalt/IMG_0008.jpg

[tomato]

No need to test drive, my friend. I drove Wes's car to the body shop to get that mailbox paint removed, so that was my test drive. (Was it in this thread that I told everyone about the mailbox incident?) The shop was only a couple miles from my workplace, so I just drove his car to work that day and left it at the shop. They gave me an old car to get me to work and back to their shop when the Yaris was ready.

Tom

I beg to differ. I know how you feel about the Yaris, but I wouldn't shake hands or sign anything until after you've done the test drive, if I were you.

The white car looks nice, too, by the way, but we're not talking about the white car, anymore, are we?!



:burnrubber:

[YarisOwnersDad]

Oh, I would definitely drive the one I was about to buy before committing to the deal. I just didn't see any need in driving that black one today, since I knew that would not be the car I would end up with.

I guess they will want some kind of commitment before trading with the other dealer, but I will reserve the right to back out, if I detect something wrong when I test drive the one they bring in.

I just wanted folks to see what I am driving now. It's not a bad car at all, and I might regret getting rid of it later.

Tom

[tomato]

I might regret getting rid of it later.

Tom

Now, now, now.... don't do that to yourself!! Once you make a decision, don't look back!!

When you say you "reserve your right to back out" make sure they put that in writing, too, if you've already commited in writing.

In California, there is no cool-off period for the purchase of a car, so you have to have the dealership write a cancellation clause into the contract, or if they don't, you have to sign a piece of paper saying they offered you the cancellation option but you declined it. The first dealership I set foot in was willing to put in a cancellation option for free, but the second dealership where I eventually got my Yaris wanted $250 to write in that cancellation clause. :rolleyes: I declined. It didn't matter because I had no intention of changing my mind. Different states or different dealership may do business differently but I'd try to get it in writing if I were you.

Some other posters may have some other advice in that regard, though.

[YarisOwnersDad]

Well, I have a good record so far, Mr. Mater. I have never regretted any of my trades, and Lord knows there have sure been plenty of them.

Tom

[tomato]

Sounds like you got everything under control!

[darkmoon87]

That was a good 5 page long read...good luck with your purchase. All the things that were in my head to give you advice has been mentioned already so I guess I will just stay tuned and see how things go.

[roxy1]

I guess they will want some kind of commitment before trading with the other dealer

Tom

is the other dealer local? i know around here, they will not trade w/ any dealers in the same market.

[YarisOwnersDad]

is the other dealer local? i know around here, they will not trade w/ any dealers in the same market.


Roxy:

The other dealer is about 50 miles away, and my dealer said that they work out deals with them all the time. There is a dealer only 30 miles away, and, like you say, they do not deal with them.

It's tough to commit to buying a car when I have not seen one in the same color. I did find some pictures in here in the Owners Garage section of Flint Mica Yarii, and they looked pretty good. Seeing a picture of one is not a substitute for seeing one in person, though.

I would have no trouble deciding on color, if Wes had not bought the Barcelona Red Metallic. :biggrin:

I might not do anything today or tomorrow and try to get around to a dealership that has a Flint Mica or two in inventory this weekend.

The deal might not be attractive enough for me to even worry about checking out Flint Mica Yarii, and it wouldn't necessarily be the dealer's fault. I'm not in a good position to trade, having just traded ten months ago. That is not the Toyota dealer's fault. It's not that I would be too "upside down" on trade-in, it's just that I would not want to take such a huge hit on depreciation.

I'll let everyone know what they offer me for a deal, and we'll go from there. I appreciate everyone's support. Your advice is appreciated and taken into consideration, whether you are saying "go for it" or "don't do it."

Stick with me my friends. I'm enjoying your company on this journey. :smile:

Tomster

[33OH]

I say go for it so we have more Midwesterners for meets! :thumbsup::laugh:

[Giobatera]

Just adding to all previous comments posted here. I had 4 GM cars within the last 6 years, before I switch to my Yaris "SEDAN", and honestly, I had major problems with ALL of them. I can tell you that I love my yaris and I wouldn’t change it for anything else. I have done some basic mods to it, and believe it or not, it is my family car. I have a wife and two kids and they all love the car. When I first bought it, the wife didn’t want me to get it manual. Now, she just loves to drive it. The last car I had prior to my Yaris, was a Ford Expedition, and just the gas money for the Ford, is almost 3 times more then what I pay for my car on a monthly bases. I respect everyone’s opinion, but if you ask me. YARIS IT IS!!!!! SEDAN of course…Lol! :wink:

[YarisOwnersDad]

Well, ain't this sumpthin'?

The dealer where I helped Wes get his car, which is the dealer I have been trying to work with on a Yaris for myself, will not work up a deal for me unless I "follow their procedure." I would have to test drive a Yaris and then sit there while they play the game of the salesman going back and forth between me and the sales manager.

I know exactly what I want, so they should be able to simply appraise my trade-in and tell me what they will do. I can then accept or make a counter offer. I don't want to sit there and play their game.

I'll try another dealer. I have already placed a call.

Tom

[SpaceShot]

Try to get an Internet price (or a Costco or AAA auto program price) from another dealer.
Assume that you are not going to get a good trade and see what Edmunds or CraigsList might get you as a private sale.
(much harder to do well this year than last)

Getting the Internet price reduces the back & forth business to just the extra warranty. (which you can quickly decline if you have a good local mechanic)
Better yet, go in with a credit union financing check in your pocket and avoid the whole discussion on rates and so on.

[tomato]

Well, ain't this sumpthin'?

The dealer where I helped Wes get his car, which is the dealer I have been trying to work with on a Yaris for myself, will not work up a deal for me unless I "follow their procedure." I would have to test drive a Yaris and then sit there while they play the game of the salesman going back and forth between me and the sales manager.

Tom

:rolleyes: Whatever !! :bs: and this is the place where you just bought a car, too??! :rolleyes:


I did too walk away from the first Yaris I test drove (which I liked better than mine, actually, better color, fewer miles) because the 1st dealer was full of it and I could just tell right from the get go that it was gonna be a PIA kind of transaction. The second dealer was more straightforward so it took us very little time to get to the handshake part (only 2 trips to the sales manager in the back, lol!)

Good luck!

[MadMax]

Yeah, I hated the dealership experience as well and I am "lucky" enough to have a half dozen or so Toyota dealers within an hour or so of where we live. Honestly, I only endured it as I wanted the car so badly (it is really a great car!). I traded in a VW Passat wagon I had owned for almost a decade, and it broke my heart but the Yaris is living up to my expectations. I hang on to my cars as long as I can, had I not been in the military and stationed overseas for much of my career I would have probably had less cars for much longer! Heck, I even paid to ship the Passat to Belgium for three years as a second car because I had only owned it for three years prior to that.

You probably already know and realize this, but just as a reminder, buying a car is a negotiation! You have every opportunity to walk away from the deal, so use that leverage if they salespeople are dicking around with you. I have blatantly gotten up and walked out of a dealership because of some of the bullshit they were trying to pull on me. I must look dumber than I am, because I'd have to be pretty stupid to believe some of the things they have said.

If you are lucky and not in a rush to buy, you have the advantage and use it to the fullest. Just keep looking until you find the car and deal you are happy with, then drive away and don't look back!

Cheers! M2

[YarisOwnersDad]

OK, I have contacted the Internet Sales Manager at a dealership in Owensboro, KY. This is the contact I mentioned up the page.

The guy is perfectly willing to make me an offer, even though he is on vacation in FL. He lists his cell phone number on the dealership's website, and I didn't know he was on vacation. He purposely listed his cell phone number, though, because he doesn't want to miss a sale, vacation or not.

He was honest enough to tell me that I would suffer by having such a new car to trade-in. I like this guy.

The dealer where Wes bought his car still has not called me with a deal. I guess they would rather miss a sale than deviate from their "procedure."

I would prefer to deal with these people, since they are located just a mile from my workplace. I'll probably use their service department.

Tom

[33OH]

I bought mine about 50 miles away because of my local dealer being too flaky to deal with. I definitely say to go to the "real person" dealer. :thumbsup:

[SilverBack]

SailDesign might be selling his in the near future. It's got a small dent in it, but that'll pop right out:laugh:

[tomato]

^ :bellyroll:



By the way, I did, too, drive approx. 50 miles to get my Yaris since I wasn't having very good luck with the local dealerhips.

[Yaris Hilton]

I drove 25 miles west to deal with a guy I could talk straight to, at a dealership where the service department isn't run by people with bad attitudes. One Echo and three Yarises later, I'm very happy and would recommend Toyota of Kingsport to anyone. (And Michael Cox, the salesman.)

[PreciousPups4U]

I drove almost 100 miles each way to get what I wanted and I went there and back twice. The first time was to put down the deposit (no one locally was willing to track down the color I wanted) and then I went back 10 days later to pick up the car.

Did most of the negotiation over the telephone. I knew the price over the telephone before I drove up to put down th deposit. They agreed to add the cuise for FREE when I got there to put down the deposit and when I picked it up they had added floor mats for FREE for all my trouble and coming so far. They knew I had gone past 10+ dealerships to get to them.

It's worth it to make the trip to get what you want at the price you want to pay then take it to the other dealer for service just so they know you bought one any way. :laugh:

[YarisOwnersDad]

Ok, the "vacationing" car salesman from Don Moore Toyota in Owensboro, KY, has taken the time to respond to my inquiry.

He included a page of auction sales results in his Email to show me that 2008 Cobalt LS's are going anywhere from $7000 to $9200. See the chart below.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y145/tsjay/Cobalt/auctionresultsforCobalts.png

The salesman, Jeff, says that he can probably let the Yaris go at invoice price and give me $8000 to $9000 trade-in. I asked him if invoice on the Yaris and $9500 trade-in would be out of the question, considering that the Cobalt is in PERFECT condition. (I pointed out to him that, according to what he sent me, a couple "average" condition cars went for $9000.)

I told him to get back to his vacation and wait until next week to get back to me, if he wanted to.

Tom

[computerlove87]

I would definitely make the trade. The Yaris will probably stay more reliable than the cobalt as it gets older, and it will hold its value better, so if you decide to sell it in 3 years, it will still be worth something.

[YarisOwnersDad]

OK, Jeff got back to me and said that my proposed deal of invoice on the Yaris and $9500 trade-in allowance on the Cobalt might work, but we would have to get together in person and let their "official appraiser" see my car. That's reasonable.

The question is, IF I get that deal, SHOULD I do it???? :iono:

Tomster

[brainless twit]

The question is, IF I get that deal, SHOULD I do it???? :iono:


And this is probably the worst place to ask that question, because you already know what most of us are going to say. :biggrin:

[YarisOwnersDad]

Well, if you go back and read the post where I told about the deal I got on the Cobalt, you will see that when all rebates, my GM Card earnings, and my trade-in allowance on that old beater pickup are applied, I got the Cobalt for $10,630 plus tax and license.

If I get $9500 for it, I would be losing only $1100 on it, looking at it like that.

I know, it STILL doesn't make sense, since I have perfectly good car with only 15K miles on it that gets decent gas mileage and has a monthly payment of only $228.

Tomster

[33OH]

I say heck yeah, do it!

They're giving you a more than reasonable offer for your Cobalt.

I know your Cobalt is a nice car, but you obviously don't have that bond between man and machine. :wub::cool:

[MadMax]

OK, Jeff got back to me and said that my proposed deal of invoice on the Yaris and $9500 trade-in allowance on the Cobalt might work, but we would have to get together in person and let their "official appraiser" see my car. That's reasonable.

The question is, IF I get that deal, SHOULD I do it???? :iono:

Tomster

In my opinion, yes. As computerlove87 pointed out, in a few years a Yaris will be worth much more than your Cobalt. Nothing against your car, but it is a Chevy; and if they are willing to give you a good trade-in on it, and you want the Yaris so bad (which is completely understandable), then you should take the offer.

My Passat was starting to fall apart but it probably had a couple of years left in it, and I was happy not making payments on a second car at the time; but I just fell for the Yaris hatchback so much that I knew I was going to get one. I had the same desire for a Jeep for the longest time, and finally got one two years ago but now I wish I had done so sooner. Life's too short to put off the good things, as long as the rest of your life is stable and secure (job, mortgage payments, etc) and you can afford it, I would say go for it!

Cheers! M2

[detroiter]

If your going to only lose out on 1100, and everything else will be close such as monthly payments, etc...then I say go for it. Like everyone else said, if you stick it out with the Yaris, it's resale value will definately make up that 1100 down the road...probably even much more so then that. I see it all the time around here in Detroit, the domestic vehicles usually always resell for alot cheaper then the imports which can usually pull a higher premium even if it has more miles, worse condition, etc.

And if the bug bites you, you can always style up the Yaris or put some mods on it to handle like a street legal go-kart. Not to mention the car should last years due to the Toyota engine. I've never owned a Toyota before mine but I hear all the time about how tough they are so I guess I'll find out if it's true or not, so far I find it very believeable :)

[Giobatera]

Well, with that being said, let me put it this way. "HELL YEAH BRO!!!!" Get the Yaris and enjoy it to the extreme!!!!!!

[tomato]

The question is, IF I get that deal, SHOULD I do it???? :iono:

Tomster


Sad to say, $1100 doesn't go very far these days, so if that's the only obstacle I'd say get the Yaris already! :headbang:

[mr9865]

Do it!

[YarisOwnersDad]

Ok, if the loan calculator on Edmunds.com is correct, if the dealer rip-off fee is the same at Don Moore Toyota as it was on my son's car deal at Hudson's in Madisonville, if I really do get the Yaris at invoice ($15,386 vs $16,285 MSRP), and if I do get $9500 trade-in allowance on the Cobalt, and if I go through my credit union for 5.25% for 72 months, the payment would be only be $267 vs the current $228. That's just $39 per month difference, and I would get most of that back in gas savings.

I would, of course, be making 72 payments of $267, for a total of $19,224, but by keeping the Cobalt, I would make 53 more payments of $228, for a total of $12,084. Would it be worth $7140 (minus gas savings) over the next six years for me to get the Yaris??????

Hmmmmmmmmm.

Tom

[33OH]

Would it be worth $7140 (minus gas savings) over the next six years for me to get the Yaris??????



Unfortunately, only you can make that decision.

I would suggest to see if your son will switch you cars for a week, and make sure you absolutely love it before you decide to spend the $7K more.

[YarisOwnersDad]

Well, I will have saved a couple thousand in gas expense after those six years. (If I keep driving 18K miles per year, and if I get 38 MPG on the Yaris vs. 28 MPG on the Cobalt, then I will save $2030 in six years on gas, using $2.00 per gallon for the gas price. I think we all know that it will go back up eventually, as much as we wish it wouldn't.)

At the end of the six years, I will have a seven year old Cobalt with 126,000 miles on it, if I don't trade, or I will have a six year old Yaris with 108,000 miles on it, it I do trade. Not sure how much difference there would be in the value of those cars.

We haven't brought insurance into this equation yet, either. I need to find out how much it will go up, but I doubt it will be very much.

Tom

[YarisOwnersDad]

I just checked to see how much my six month premium would go up, and I'm afraid we have a show stopper here.

NOT!

It would go up $13.82 per six month premium. :w00t:

[tomato]

At the end of the six years, I will have a seven year old Cobalt with 126,000 miles on it, if I don't trade, or I will have a six year old Yaris with 108,000 miles on it, it I do trade. Not sure how much difference there would be in the value of those cars.

We haven't brought insurance into this equation yet, either. I need to find out how much it will go up, but I doubt it will be very much.

Tom

I doubt if insurance will go up that much, maybe not at all, but you'll only know that after you call them up.

So now, according to your calculations, you're looking at adding an approx. $5K to drive the Toyota?

Hmmm... indeed. :frown:

You forgot something, though. Estimated maintenance and repair costs?

As far as depreciation goes, we don't know what will happen, of course, but we all bought the Yaris thinking (hoping) it would hold its value better than other cars.

[YarisOwnersDad]

I doubt if insurance will go up that much, maybe not at all, but you'll only know that after you call them up.

So now, according to your calculations, you're looking at adding an approx. $5K to drive the Toyota?

Hmmm... indeed. :frown:

You forgot something, though. Estimated maintenance and repair costs?

As far as depreciation goes, we don't know what will happen, of course, but we all bought the Yaris thinking (hoping) it would hold its value better than other cars.


Mater, I checked with my insurance company and posted that the cost will only be $13.82 per six month premium higher. I made that post within just a few minutes of the one you saw, so I guess you missed that second one.

Tom

[roxy1]

I would suggest to see if your son will switch you cars for a week, and make sure you absolutely love it before you decide to spend the $7K more.

i'd second that. you havent spent enough time in one to have much more than infatuation w/ the yaris. IMO, the cobalt is a boring looking sedan, but the yaris sedan is a boring looking sedan also. the cobalt is quieter on acceleration and at cruise. the cobalt has quite a bit better torque/acceleration. the interior of the yaris is a little different, but to be honest it is pretty cheap looking. the one real advantage is the gas mileage of the yaris, but as you noted you will never come very close to recovering the extra costs of this transaction. remeber, after 53 months, you could drop your full coverage insurance on the cobalt, a reasonable proposition since a 5+ yr old cobalt with 100k+ miles would not be worth much even if totalled.

a week in the yaris would insure that these differences wouldnt wear on you after a while, especially important if you are going to take on an extra 1 1/2 yrs of payments (and higher payments at that).

[YarisOwnersDad]

Yeah, Roxy, you and the others who offer that same advice make sense. I think I am starting to "see the light."

I simply LOVE to trade cars, and I am suffering today because of my past "sins." I will be able to get over this, if I just ride it out.

I have been asking myself, and anyone else who would listen, WHY would I want to go from a compact to a subcompact, giving up front seat room and trunk room? Why would I want to give up almost 150 HP for just over 100 HP and lose all that acceleration? Why would I want to give up a pretty fair sound system for one of lower quality? The extra gas mileage would be great, but that in itself does not begin to justify the trade. When the "new" wears off in a few months, am I going to regret having made this trade?

I get like this every so often, and I have too often gone ahead and traded. Car salesmen have been injured as they all try to be the first one to get through the door when I pull up on the lot. Many car salesmen were able to send their kids to college because of me. Many have named their children after me. The dealers have cubicles reserved for me. :biggrin: OK, that might be a SLIGHT exaggeration.

I said somewhere up this thread that I have never made a trade that I regretted, and that is true of each deal individually. Collectively, however, there have been way too many trades, and I regret having made so many.

Thanks for letting me use you guys for a sounding board. I STILL don't know which way this will end up. I go back and forth, as you guys can see from this thread.

At the bare minimum, I should wait a while, until I am SURE about this.

Tom

[tomato]

"I simply LOVE to trade cars, and I am suffering today because of my past "sins." I will be able to get over this, if I just ride it out..."


Sounds like you know your way around a dealership, then ! :respekt:

Well, even if you don't buy the Yaris... Maybe you could start a new thread (or a blog on this forum) designed to give those of us who are pretty green at this, some basic advice? What's MSRP? Invoice? How do you get the dealer to meet you half way? How to find out the real value of a car? When does it make sense to trade in? Stuff like that.

These may be real basic questions to you and some of the forum members, but the Yaris is the first new car purchase of many, so it might be very useful info, plus you can continue to talk about what you love ... without having to spend any money on a new car you don't really need :wink: Just a thought!

:burnrubber:

[tomato]

PS. "Why would I want to give up almost 150 HP for just over 100 HP and lose all that acceleration?"

That's a damn good question. I miss the little extra power my last car had almost erery time I drive the Yaris! (I had an old Honda CRX, may she rest in peace ) :wink:

[YarisOwnersDad]

"I simply LOVE to trade cars, and I am suffering today because of my past "sins." I will be able to get over this, if I just ride it out..."


Sounds like you know your way around a dealership, then ! :respekt:

Well, even if you don't buy the Yaris... Maybe you could start a new thread (or a blog on this forum) designed to give those of us who are pretty green at this, some basic advice? What's MSRP? Invoice? How do you get the dealer to meet you half way? How to find out the real value of a car? When does it make sense to trade in? Stuff like that.

These may be real basic questions to you and some of the forum members, but the Yaris is the first new car purchase of many, so it might be very useful info, plus you can continue to talk about what you love ... without having to spend any money on a new car you don't really need :wink: Just a thought!

:burnrubber:

Mater:

I don't claim to be an "expert" at making car deals, but I HAVE been around the block a few times. I have learned how to get cars at pretty darn near the lowest possible price, but I have traded way too often. Have you ever heard the expression, "There's no such thing as a good deal on something that you don't need?"

I would be glad to share the benefit of my experience with anyone who has questions about trading cars.

Tomster

[mr9865]

Just thought I would add that I went to a local dealer and was quoted there "best price" of 12295 for a 07 yaris sedan with 30,000 miles, auto, power package, they seem to hold there value quite well. They offered $3000 for my focus as trade, figure I could get $1000 more off of craigslist, so I am going that route.

[YarisOwnersDad]

Just thought I would add that I went to a local dealer and was quoted there "best price" of 12295 for a 07 yaris sedan with 30,000 miles, auto, power package, they seem to hold there value quite well. They offered $3000 for my focus as trade, figure I could get $1000 more off of craigslist, so I am going that route.

Now that is pretty impressive, if it is representative. What does kbb.com or Edmunds.com say about the retail price for such a vehicle?

Tom

[mr9865]

for my area kbb.com says retail $13020, private party $11,020 in excellent conditon (it was perfect too, even smelled new) trade in is $9,075.

[Yaris Hilton]

Sounds like you know what to do.

On the color question, the three Yaris sedans in my family are Barcelona Red metallic, Flint/Mica Gray metallic, and black. They all look great.

[YarisOwnersDad]

for my area kbb.com says retail $13020, private party $11,020 in excellent conditon (it was perfect too, even smelled new) trade in is $9,075.


Well, that is definitely some nice value retention.

[mr9865]

I think I want one as bad as you do too. that test drive hooked me

[roxy1]

for my area kbb.com says retail $13020, private party $11,020 in excellent conditon (it was perfect too, even smelled new) trade in is $9,075.


Well, that is definitely some nice value retention.

if you want to know about yaris resale, get this: i bought the yaris new in june 2007 for $12800 which was pretty much retail (3 dr hatch, 5 speed, conv package). 1 year and 3 months later (sept '08) and 21k miles and i got $11,100 trade in value. this was not in lieu of fiddling with the corolla price, which i got for $300 over invoice. i may have sold it for more privately, but not by much. for me it was worth avoiding the hassle.

that is a 13% loss in 15 months and 20,000 miles. i was impressed.

so, yes, i had the itch for a different car after barely more than one year. without the awesome reslae value of the yaris, i would not have done it.

[AlexNet0]

if your 72 month payment calc is correct, you are still paying less than me in the end, I bought mine with 25 miles on it in may 07 for $12.9k? for 72mo, no down payment, no previous credit history, no co-signer 14.5% interest. for 289 and some change per month. Its still worth it to me. lol

[YarisOwnersDad]

if your 72 month payment calc is correct, you are still paying less than me in the end, I bought mine with 25 miles on it in may 07 for $12.9k? for 72mo, no down payment, no previous credit history, no co-signer 14.5% interest. for 289 and some change per month. Its still worth it to me. lol

Well, congrats on your first new car. It sounds like you are still very enthusiastic about your Yaris, even though you have had it for almost two years now. Sounds like the "honeymoon" is still on.

Thanks for your contribution to this thread.

Tom

[YarisOwnersDad]

You know, Peeps, even though the cold hard economics plainly show that the cost of the extra gas that I am burning with the Cobalt is far less than the cost of trading for the Yaris, I just cannot help but think about how GOOD it would feel to put that gas nozzle back on the gas pump, tighten my gas cap, get back in my car, take note of the miles accumulated on the trip odometer since the last fill-up, divide that number by the number of gallons I just bought, and come up with a figure in the neighborhood of 40 MPG.

Brainless Twit said she got 42 MPG on each of her last two tanks, and her commute is somewhat similar to mine, although she drives further each way. If anything, she woud encounter more traffic than I would. She actually goes through a couple little towns before getting to the town she works in. Now that I think about it, I definitely should be able to get at least as many MPG as she does.

Hmmmmmmmm. Here we go again. The pendulum is swinging back in the direction of buying the Yaris again.

I know you guys must think I am nuts. Trust me, I have never agonized over a car purchase decision to this extent before. I usually just get the urge and go do it.

I think part of this is that even though the Cobalt performs so well and is such a good car, I don't have that special "connection" with it that I like to have with the car or truck that I drive daily. Someone earlier in this thread said something along those lines, and I think they hit the nail on the head.

I'm going to suck up to the wife and take her out for a steak dinner this afternoon over at Owensboro, and I think we might just swing by Don Moore Toyota for my first look at a Flint Mica Yaris. If I trade again, that woman ain't gonna be happy. (Can you blame her?) :help:

Tom

[YarisOwnersDad]

I really appreciate the help from all of you Yaris folks. Your comments are truly helping me make this decision. I know that in a lot of cases, people have their minds made up, and when they solicit advice, they are really only looking for confirmation for the decision that they have already made. I have been guilty of that myself.

Things that have been said in this thread have truly caused me to think. Regardless of which way I go on this, and regardless of which way your advice was pointing me, I thank you for taking the time to express your thoughts on this.

Keep the posts coming. Help me get through this.

Thanks, my friends.

Tomster

[Yaris Hilton]

As you've doubtless heard, your mileage may vary. I've filled my 2009 AT sedan three times. First tank averaged 32.4 MPG (and included some hard driving chasing my preacher to his house to pick up a package!) Second was 37.5. Third was 36.0. I expect I'll average in the mid-30s, as I'm a sensible driver but not a hard core hypermiler, and most of my driving's around town. I'm quite happy with that.

[YarisOwnersDad]

As you've doubtless heard, your mileage may vary. I've filled my 2009 AT sedan three times. First tank averaged 32.4 MPG (and included some hard driving chasing my preacher to his house to pick up a package!) Second was 37.5. Third was 36.0. I expect I'll average in the mid-30s, as I'm a sensible driver but not a hard core hypermiler, and most of my driving's around town. I'm quite happy with that.

Thanks for that info, YH. Your experience is actually very encouraging, since I live in a rural area and do very little in town driving. If your mileage is that good, then mine should be even better, more like what Brainless Twit gets.

Tom

[AlexNet0]

oh yeah, i have the 5spd in rural area and i get a consistant 38-42

[YarisOwnersDad]

oh yeah, i have the 5spd in rural area and i get a consistant 38-42

SUPER! Music to my ears. :w00t:

Tom

[tomato]

I know that in a lot of cases, people have their minds made up, and when they solicit advice, they are really only looking for confirmation for the decision that they have already made. I have been guilty of that myself.



I agree with you there.

Never mind the Yaris for a minute. I find that generally, if a purchase requires you to think about it too much - I don't mean the research part, I mean if you're not sure, you have to put it on hold because you want to think about it, you're 50/50 about it so you need people's opinion to help tip the scale one way or the other, etc, then you probably shouldn't go through with the purchase. That's my experience. Because the part of you that is holding you back right now is the part of you that may continue to haunt you later "see, I told you not to get that POS..." If you been through this before, you know what I mean.

Cars, houses, and certain BIG purchases like that, require a lot of research for most people and all input is good. But you know what I mean. If you have to think about it too much...

Personally, ever since you said 1) you were going for the sedan and not the liftback, and 2) you explained how much $$$ it's really going to cost you in the long run, I think you should walk away from the Yaris and just wait a couple of years to see what's on the market then. Seems to me you're trading down, not up and not getting that much more in exchange.

I got the Yaris liftback because there are very few subcompact vehicles with a hatchback to choose from, so the Yaris ended up being in my top 3. Plus, I think the Yaris LB is the best looking of them all :wub: (hey, that counts! ) but if the Yaris TS showed up in the US tomorrow, I'd be all over it in less time than it takes me to write this post, believe me, whether it makes financial sense or not... so yeah, I know what you mean.

But you're looking at sedans, and there really is a lot to choose from out there, so... I don't know...

:burnrubber:

[tomato]

@ Yaris Hilton:

I nearly fell off my chair when I saw your new avatar yesterday!! :eyebulge: Big difference! :biggrin:

[anonymous user]

I get teased by one of my best mates for the fact that i love cheap, crappy cars.
Atleast i am only down to one now :)

[AlexNet0]

I get teased by one of my best mates for the fact that i love cheap, crappy cars.
Atleast i am only down to one now :)


? no crap here, just quality cheapness

[tomato]

:eek: crappy car?!! :eek:


Better be a typo !! :hitcomputer:

[Yaris Hilton]

@ Yaris Hilton:

I nearly fell off my chair when I saw your new avatar yesterday!! :eyebulge: Big difference! :biggrin:

Yeah, well, it's springtime and the beard's lining bird nests now. :biggrin:

[MadMax]

I get teased by one of my best mates for the fact that i love cheap, crappy cars.
Atleast i am only down to one now :)

What the hell?!?

The Yaris is not cheap, it is inexpensive and far from crappy!

[YarisOwnersDad]

Ok, Peeps, I went to Don Moore Toyota today and took a little test drive in one of those Flint Micas that they had in inventory. My salesman, Jeff, is still on vacation, and I made it clear to the salesman, Bill, who helped me today that I was dealing with Jeff. Bill said that there was no problem and that he would help me just as a favor to Jeff and would not expect any of the commission if I bought the car.

I was shocked when I saw the Flint Mica, because it was much darker than I thought it would be. At first I was not sure I liked it, but after the wife and I went and had us a steak, I went back the second time, which is when I took the test drive, and I decided that the longer I saw the car, the more I liked the color.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y145/tsjay/Tom%20Yaris/PICT0011.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y145/tsjay/Tom%20Yaris/PICT0012.jpg

It sure "felt right" behind the wheel of that car as I test drove it. I just may have to go over there Monday morning and make the deal! Even my wife is not having a hissy over this deal, like I thought she would.

Tom

[YarisOwnersDad]

I may have to change my username next week to DadGot12. :)

Tom

[YarisOwnersDad]

Oh, yeah, they now have 0% interest for 60 months, if the customer would prefer that to the $1000 cash rebate. If I am doing the calculating right, I would have a $291 per month payment for 60 months (at zero percent interest) by trading, compared to 53 more payments of $228 by keeping the Cobalt. That's only $5376 difference, and that would be partially offset by five years worth of fuel savings, $1692! That is IF gas stays at $2.00 per gallon.

Tom

[tomato]

I just checked the website of a local Toyota dealership. Looks like they too, are offering 0% financing or cash rebate in California, on the Yaris.

California just increased the sales tax 1%, though, which brings it to 9 or 9.5% depending where you live (sigh). :rolleyes:

Er.. not that I'm ready to trade in or anything :wink:

[anonymous user]

? no crap here, just quality cheapness


:eek: crappy car?!! :eek:


Better be a typo !! :hitcomputer:

What the hell?!?

The Yaris is not cheap, it is inexpensive and far from crappy!

There is no way to explain why i love my yaris, but i'd be happy in an echo as well. I do love jdm kei-cars though. Probably till i die. :evil:

[eTiMaGo]

YarisOwnersDadWhoMightSoonOwnOneTooMaybeNotSureYet ,

:biggrin:

Flint Mica's a great color for the sedan, you would not go wrong with it, very classy and understated

[YarisOwnersDad]

Well, Peeps, this journey toward becoming a Yaris owner is very close to its end. Thanks to all of you who have traveled this road with me and helped me consider the things that needed to be considered. Lord willing, I will go in the morning and pick up that Flint Mica Yaris.

Now, I am going to need a new username, right?

Tomster

[tomato]

Now, I am going to need a new username, right?

Tomster

Don't know about that but you're definitely going to need to change your "what are you driving" entry!

So this is it? Well, let us know when it's in your driveway so we can have one :drinking: with you (virtually, that is). :biggrin:


:burnrubber:

[YarisOwnersDad]

Thanks, Mater. Yeah, I definitely need to change my "what you're driving" thingy.

Tom

[YarisOwnersDad]

Sure hope they will give me a big discount on those Yaris floor mats, or even throw them in for free tomorrow. I could negotiate them into the deal, I guess. Who wants to pay $150 for floor mats, no matter how nice they are?

The floor mats have been added to the window sticker by the dealership. The original window sticker did not list the floor mats as an included option.

Tom

[Giobatera]

Good luck tomorrow and congrats!:thumbup:

[YarisOwnersDad]

Good luck tomorrow and congrats!:thumbup:

Thanks, Gio.

They had a white sedan there yesterday that looked really nice, but I had a white pickup that I traded in on the white Cobalt, so I am ready for a change. Otherwise, I just might have picked white for the Yaris. I STILL think the very sharpest color is that Barcelona Red Metallic that my son got on his car.

Tom

[brainless twit]

Well, now I'll know you when I pass you on the road. I'll be sure to honk and wave! (Be careful, though, there are 2 silver streak mica sedans running around the county. Mine will be the dirty one.)

[YarisOwnersDad]

Well, now I'll know you when I pass you on the road. I'll be sure to honk and wave! (Be careful, though, there are 2 silver streak mica sedans running around the county. Mine will be the dirty one.)


Hi, Twit.

I hope to be at Don Moore by 9:00 AM, since that is when my salesman is supposed to get to work. I guess you will have been by there long before then on your way to work.

Tom

[SLIK4]

congrats and excellent choice in car :thumbsup: sedan ftw!

[YarisOwnersDad]

congrats and excellent choice in car :thumbsup: sedan ftw!

Thanks, Slik.

Tomster

[YarisOwnersDad]

Maybe we are jumping the gun a little bit here. I hope not, but until the deal is put down on paper for me to see, I cannot say for sure that I will do this. I don't foresee any problems, but I will feel better when the deal is official.

Tomster

[tomato]

This is getting interesting and exciting! :w00t:

I wonder if Tom's wife will log in next and say she wants one too! :biggrin:

[YarisOwnersDad]

Morning, Everyone. It's 5:40 AM, and I hope to be a Yaris owner in about 4 hours or less. I'm an early riser, obviously, but I think the excitement over getting my Yaris made getting up a little easier this morning.

It is NOT a very nice day weather-wise to be buying a new car. It will be nice and clean only until I have driven half a block. It is raining. :cry:

Tomster

[SLIK4]

thats no fun man. ya im in kansas and every time i get my car washed it seems to rain or snow a day later. sure does make it tough to keep clean so it is dirty 95% of the time.

[33OH]

Congrats and look forward to the purchase! :thumbsup:

[YarisOwnersDad]

Thanks, Ryan.

Well, I am just about ready to step out the door and take my last trip in my Cobalt.

I have to give that Cobalt the credit it is due. It has been a fine car, and it is not because of any dissatisfaction with it that I am trading it. It didn't do too bad on gas, about 27 to 28 MPG overall average.

Well, here I go! Next time you guys hear from me, I should be a Yaris owner!

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehawwwwwwwwww!!!!!!!!!

Tomster

[33OH]

Thanks, Ryan.



Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehawwwwwwwwww!!!!!!!!!


:burnrubber::thumbup:

[Giobatera]

Hey Tom, I’m hopping that by now you are officially a Yaris Owner! We are all looking foward to see the pics of your new Yaris "SEDAN" of course!!! LOL!
Hoping that you had a smooth negociation! :drinking:

[tomato]

:biggrin:

Good luck!

[SLIK4]

have fun :burnrubber:

[YarisOwnersDad]

Well, Peeps, I tried. :frown:

My salesman was BIG TIME overly optimistic about what the official appraiser would say. Of course, he made it clear that he could not make me an official offer via Email and that we would have to let the appraiser see the Cobalt.

I'm not PO'd at the salesman, even though I do think that he should have been experienced enough to come closer in estimating what the appraiser would agree to than he was.

The appraiser said $8000, instead of the $9500 that I thought we had a tentative deal for. Jeff, the salesman, thought we might get him up to $8500, but that would still be $1000 less than I was expecting.

So, I could have traded for invoice on the Yaris and MAYBE received $8500 trade-in. Sorry, but that ain't gonna get the job done.

Hey, I have a great car to drive that is almost new. I got a KILLER deal on it just ten months ago, and I thank the Good Lord for it. Maybe this was just God's way of saying that I should hang onto what He has already blessed me with and be grateful?

The Old Tomster is glad to have made some new friends here and will probably stick around.

Thanks to everyone who participated in this thread. God bless each of you, and enjoy those Yarii. :thumbsup:

Tomster

[SLIK4]

im sorry man maybe someday :smile:

[33OH]

Sorry to hear that Tom. Good idea on hanging onto the Cobalt, and you never know.. they may call you and give in to your wants.

You should still stick around the forums, we could use a cool guy such as yourself. :thumbsup:

Ryan

[SLIK4]

^ agreed please stick around. and your son can get on too

[tomato]

Awwww. How disappointing for you. We know how much you wanted it. :cry:

Well, look at it this way: you have a good car, and you know you're interested in the Yarii. Keep your eyes open for deals, for new models. Maybe in a year or two...

I too, hope you stick around. We love having you here! :thumbsup:

:headbang:




:burnrubber:

[tomato]

By the way, how much did you pay for the Cobalt, just curious, thanks.

[Giobatera]

Hey, I know you REALLY wanted the Yarii, but as you said yourself, maybe was just God's sign for you to keep the Cobalt for now. Keep in mind that it doesn't mean you won't get it eventually though. Anything that it’s your heart’s desire and you ask with faith, you’ll get it. You just have to wait for God’s perfect time. I hope you stick around and have your son join us! Be glad that you did everything that was under your power to make it happen :clap:

[YarisOwnersDad]

Thanks for the words of encouragement, my friends.

I really am OK with this. I would have traded, if I could have gotten the deal that I thought we had worked out, and I know I would have been happy with that little Yaris. But, I am also very happy with my Cobalt, so I was kind of in a "can't lose" situation.

Mater, you asked about the deal I got on the Cobalt. I was thinking that I had spelled that out earlier in this thread, but I don't mind doing it again.

The Cobalt stickered for $15,530. GM had a $2000 rebate in effect, so now we are down to $13,330. The dealer knocked off $400, so we are at $13,130. I had approximately $1800 in accumulated GM Credit Card earnings, which I redeemed on the Cobalt, so now we are at $11,330. They gave me $700 trade-in on my old S-10 pickup with 219,xxx miles on it, and that brought the price of the Cobalt down to $10,630. There was tax and license, of course, on top of the $10,630.

One way to look at it would be that it would be a shame to trade a car that I had gotten such a good deal on so soon and take a beating that would offset the benefits of that great deal.

Like I said, I have made new friends, and that is the best thing about all of this.

Take care, Peeps. I'll be checking in pretty often.

Hey, I think I know what Yaris means:

You
Are
Riding
In
Style


Tomster

[SLIK4]

^ true that :thumbup:

[tomato]

Y..
A..
R
I
S


^ Word! :headbang:

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I think I missed that part the first time around. See you around, Tom, thanks for the great thread! :) :biggrin:

[YarisOwnersDad]

My salesman, Jeff, Emailed me to say he was sorry that things didn't work out on my Yaris. He said he is not happy either, since he gets no commission when there is no sale.

Jeff told me that they already have 17 Cobalts in their used car inventory. That sure didn't help matters any. He also reminded me that with all the crazy incentives that GM is giving now on new cars, the used GM cars are suffering big time in depreciation. That makes sense. Why would someone buy a used car, if they can get a brand new one for $1000 to $2000 more?

Banks are more likely to provide financing on a new car, longer term loans can be obtained on new cars vs. used cars, and interest rates are lower on new units. All of these factors hurt the value of used cars, especially the later model used cars like mine.

I can see why they only offered me $8000 trade-in, but I just can't trade like that. It's not the dealer's fault.

Tomster

[33OH]

Maybe someday, Tom.

I rented a Pontiac G5 (which is the exact same car as a Cobalt I believe), and it wasn't too bad. Was getting around 30 mpg highway, had a little more pep than the Yaris.

I usually get around 40-44 mpg highway in the Yaris even with 17's on it, and if I really try I can reach 50, but that's with over-inflated tires and going 60mph.

[tomato]

Banks are more likely to provide financing on a new car, longer term loans can be obtained on new cars vs. used cars, and interest rates are lower on new units.
Tomster

I didn't know that. Why is that? Some used cars hold their values real well (Hondas come to mind)

[YarisOwnersDad]

Beats me, Mater. The biggest hit on depreciation on a car occurs when it is new as soon as it is driven off the lot, so if it is a matter of security, it looks to me like the used car would come closer to covering the principal in case of default.

Tom

[tomato]

"The biggest hit on depreciation on a car occurs when it is new as soon as it is driven off the lot"

Yeah, I would think so, too. Thanks for the response. :)

[YarisOwnersDad]

Went back this afternoon to the car dealer where my son bought his car and humored them. (I test drove a black Yaris that they have in their inventory and then sat in the "hot seat" while they tried to low ball me big time on my Cobalt. I had tried to get them to figure me a deal last week, but they wouldn't do it unless I test drove a car and then let them put me in the hot seat.)

They offered me $6875 for the Cobalt, which is the Kelly Blue Book value for a 2008 Cobalt LS with auto tranny and a spoiler, which is the way mine is equipped, in "Fair" condition. Fair condition my foot! My Cobalt is spotless! Never been smoked in, never had any body work, and does not even have ONE door ding! If that car is not considered to be in "Excellent" condition, then NO car in this world is in excellent condition. The value for "Excellent" condition is $8425 by Kelly Blue Book and $9298 by Edmunds.com. BIG difference between the two, and of course the dealer says that Edmunds is way high.

They came up to $8000 pretty quickly, but I told them that I had walked away from a deal like that at Don Moore on Monday. We shook hands, and I told them that I knew that I was in a bad position, with my Cobalt being so new and all. I told them I would give them another shot sometime down the road when I was looking to buy a car.

I had not driven more than a quarter of a mile when my cell phone rang, and it was the sales manager saying that he had BEGGED the used car guy to give me $8500, and that the guy had agreed. (Some pretty high speed begging, huh?) I had told them earlier that I would trade on the spot, if they would give me $9000 on my Cobalt. The guy said he was meeting me half way, but I told him that he might have to meet me half way again and go to $8750. I told him I would sleep on it, and that I might decide to take $8750. Of course, THEY have not agreed to the $8750 yet..

We are at invoice on the new Yaris, plus $145 for a lifetime warranty on the drive train. They advertise that as being a no cost to the customer, but they said that since there was a dealer trade involved in my deal, they would charge me for the warranty. They don't have a Yaris in Flint Mica, so they will need to do a dealer trade to get one from a dealer about 50 miles away.

So, the saga continues!

Tom

[tomato]

"he BEGGED the used car guy ... " Puuuuuuuuuuuuuleez!!! :laugh: They're so full of it!!!

Well, here is keeping our fingers crossed for ya, and welcome back! :biggrin:

[PreciousPups4U]

And the saga continues.......................

Excellent. Glad you are not giving up. Hopefully a new Yaris owner very soon. You are only asking for another $250. Surely that's doable. Good Luck!

[bobselectric]

I've seen this thread a few times and finally got the time to read through it. IMHO, the gas mileage part of the argument is an excuse. You don't need an excuse. You are a grown man who likes to trade cars. Nothing to be ashamed of. If you like the Yaris, and who doesn't, get it.
I had an employee that owned the Cobalt SS. At 20k, the little things started to go bad. The clips that held the front end on, didn't. The plastic in the wheel wells cracked and fell off. Every week, he'd come in with another compliant. I'm not saying that all GM cars are like this, or that your Cobalt will be like this, but I hear a lot more stories about small problems with domestic cars than imports.

I do hope that you can resolve this issue to your satisfaction. I stopped in my local dealer today and negotiated a new 3dr in Carmine red with MT- basic car for my daughter. Total price will be under 14k- out the door. Sales tax in my area is 7.375%.
I even got a Yaris World discount. She will be very happy and will be joining the festivities here soon. Good Luck!

[PreciousPups4U]

WOW 7.375% on a car? That's nuts. Our sales tax here is 6%, but there is a $300 cap, so the most you ever pay in $300.

If you buy a very used Kia for $5000 you pay $300 sales tax, if you buy a brand new Corvette for $70,000 you pay only $300 sales tax.

Never really paid any attention to what a bonus that is.

[tomato]

^^ hmmm... you're lucky. In California, we just got hit with a 1% increase in sales tax and another increase in income tax. our sales tax is now up to 9.5% in some counties :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Oh, and vehicle registration fees and licenses went up too (sigh).

[SailDesign]

^^ hmmm... you're lucky. In California, we just got hit with a 1% increase in sales tax and another increase in income tax. our sales tax is now up to 9.5% in some counties :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Oh, and vehicle registration fees and licenses went up too (sigh).

We get 7% on cars in RI (0% on boats, though).
luckily, I got a tax credit for my total, so i'm only paying tax on about $2500 forthe new car.

[YarisOwnersDad]

I've seen this thread a few times and finally got the time to read through it. IMHO, the gas mileage part of the argument is an excuse. You don't need an excuse. You are a grown man who likes to trade cars. Nothing to be ashamed of. If you like the Yaris, and who doesn't, get it.
I had an employee that owned the Cobalt SS. At 20k, the little things started to go bad. The clips that held the front end on, didn't. The plastic in the wheel wells cracked and fell off. Every week, he'd come in with another compliant. I'm not saying that all GM cars are like this, or that your Cobalt will be like this, but I hear a lot more stories about small problems with domestic cars than imports.

I do hope that you can resolve this issue to your satisfaction. I stopped in my local dealer today and negotiated a new 3dr in Carmine red with MT- basic car for my daughter. Total price will be under 14k- out the door. Sales tax in my area is 7.375%.
I even got a Yaris World discount. She will be very happy and will be joining the festivities here soon. Good Luck!

I know the gas mileage does not begin to justify this trade. I said that earlier in the thread, I believe.

You are right, I don't need any more justification other than the fact that I just plain want to trade. I do want a good deal, though.

What is a Yaris World discount? Is that something that I might be able to take advantage of?

Thanks.

Tom

[PreciousPups4U]

^^ hmmm... you're lucky. In California, we just got hit with a 1% increase in sales tax and another increase in income tax. our sales tax is now up to 9.5% in some counties :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Oh, and vehicle registration fees and licenses went up too (sigh).

We get 7% on cars in RI (0% on boats, though).
luckily, I got a tax credit for my total, so i'm only paying tax on about $2500 forthe new car.

We do pay property tax on every vehicle (and boat) every year though in addition to the registration fees/license plate. Not sure if ya'll have to pay that. Property tax varies on value of the vehicle and the area where you live. Yaris runs about $300/year plus tag fee of about $30, A luxury type car can be $1200/year (or more) plus tag fees.

Just paid for the 1999 Dodge Ram in March, $173.77. Husband's manual 2008 Yaris is due in April, $245.97 and daughter's 2008 Scion tc is due in May, $335.41.

I guess the taxes get you one way or another. Of course we have State Income Tax as well.

[PreciousPups4U]

I did not "need" the Yaris either. Just wanted it. Don't regret it one bit. It's a very fun car and is my daily driver for sure, but when I need a truck I have the Ram and when I need the room/power I have the Excursion. Luckily they are both paid for.

Hey, if all it takes is a new car to make you happy and you can afford it, I say go for it.

[cdavidhess]

I've been following this thread too. It's very entertaining! I've bought 22 new cars in the last 32 years. I know what new car fever is like. I also like to play with car salesmen. Of course, I'm a bachelor. :smile:

Good luck!

[Forrest]

You want a new Yaris? Just go for it !!!

[bobselectric]

Yaris World discount- When the dealer you go to supports car shows and recognizes you from the shows you have been at before, he starts the negotiation with a small but reasonable deduction on the price of the new car as an appreciation of his loyalty. It was nice not having to argue for the extra reduction!

BTW, can't hurt to mention that you are an active member of the forum- you constantly speak with other toyota owners and wannabe toyota owners. Positive feedback goes a loooooooong way in ensuring repeat and new business

[YarisOwnersDad]

This MIGHT be the day, folks.

I will definitely post to let everyone know how things turn out.

Tomster

[bobselectric]

oh, the suspense--- it's a-killin' me!

[33OH]

This MIGHT be the day, folks.

I will definitely post to let everyone know how things turn out.

Tomster

Glad to see you didn't give up.. Good luck! :w00t:

[tomato]

(drum rolls) ....

[MauiDan]

Hi Tom...Dan here...I just bought our 2nd Yaris Auto (no power) sedan in under 2 years. The first was an 07 Flint Mica- love the car and color..last week I bought an 09 (wife is getting the 07 and her old Taurus going to our son).
The 09 is Silver Streak Mica althoiugh another Flint Mica woulda been fine.

I'm 53. I thought this may help you.

I have never bought a car without the dealer going into holdback on it.

That said I have always bought either at the end of a model year or end of a month. I bought the 09 on 3-31-09. Better bargaining position in my humble opinion.

Now back to dealer holdback. The dealer does have more room on your cobalt because in effect if he is selling you the new yaris AT invoice (and ask to see the invoice of course) he still has approx. $275.00 which was the dealer holdback on my 09 auto sedan (with no power just conv. pkg,all weather and mats).

So if he "begs" the trade in guy to go to 8750 on your cobalt then tell him you are going to wait until May...go in on the 29th or 30th of April and tell him you will buy if he goes 8750 on the trade AND goes 200.00 into the Holdback. Or just give you 8950 for the trade and sell the car to me AT invoice.

Hope that helps Tom.

Both times I was under invoice on the Yarii because I refused to buy at or over invoice and played 3 dealers (Bermuda Triangle) against each other in a 45 mile radius. It always works for me here in upstate NY.

Good Luck.

-Dan

[YarisOwnersDad]

Well, I guess it's over, my friends. I thank all of you for your patience with me and for your input into this thread.

The dealer and I had come to an agreement, and I was going to trade for $100 over invoice, since this would involve a trade with another dealer 50 miles away to get the color I wanted. Otherwise, I would not have gone over invoice. I would have taken the $8500 trade-in allowance on my Cobalt.

The problem is my wife is having a fit, and when you get right down to it, the only real justification for this trade is just because I want to do it. If I were single, then I would be signing papers right now on the Yaris. I even took the afternoon off to make the deal, but at literally the last moment, I took my wife's feelings to heart and decided that I could not in good conscience go against her wishes. If there were overwhelming good reasons to trade, I might have gone ahead, despite her objections. Sure wouldn't have been the first time. :biggrin:

Sorry, Peeps.

Tom

[Altitude]

:frown:

Of course...the wife.

[bobselectric]

WHIPPED



just kidding, i know the feeling... I'd be in my third year of parole if I killed her on our wedding night-- thats 23 years to the uninitiated.

Please stay in touch and let us all know if there is a way to exert some influence on your wife.

[tomato]

:cry: Aww.. I was really hoping you'd get it! :frown:

In the end, though, you did the right thing, even though I imagine it must sting a little. :respekt::respekt:

We hope you stick around the forum anyway! :biggrin:

[33OH]

http://www.langkawi.dk/smileys/a1092.gif


Okay, had to do it. :biggrin:

You did the right thing, Tom. Along with not being able to justify it, I'm glad you took your wife's feelings into consideration. :clap:

[tomato]

I have never bought a car without the dealer going into holdback on it...

... The dealer does have more room on your cobalt because in effect if he is selling you the new yaris AT invoice (and ask to see the invoice of course) he still has approx. $275.00 which was the dealer holdback on my 09 auto sedan (with no power just conv. pkg,all weather and mats).




What is "dealer holdback" and also what EXACTLY is invoice and how much negotiating room is there around that?

Thanks

[Lambpasty]

Hey, there's always next year or the year after that too. I'm sure the Yarii won't be going anywhere ;)

[PetersRedYaris]

What about YOUR feelings? Marriage is about mutual respect... :biggrin:

[roxy1]

Hey, there's always next year or the year after that too. I'm sure the Yarii won't be going anywhere ;)

but, unlike with a toyota or honda, the cobalt will depreciate at a faster rate than the amount owed will lower via payments. so, he will never be in a great position. best to just drive that cobalt til its last breath............................................ .....so, yeah, about a year or two:wink:

[NaturalTopaz]

If you feel the need to wait, do so. The 2010 Yaris will have more standard features available and by 2011, VSC and Trac will be standard (by law) as well. Toyota is planning on coming out with a Hybrid version of the Yaris sometime around 2012 or so to offer a lower price point on a hybrid vehicle (instead of the low 20's for the current Prius, think mid-teens).
You have some options for trading up now, but more later as well. It will be up to you when you decide to go "green" and get a more fuel efficient econo-box car.

NT

[Altitude]

What about YOUR feelings? Marriage is about mutual respect... :biggrin:

That's an urban myth.

[YarisOwnersDad]

Guys and Gals:

IF I could justify getting the Cobalt for any solid reasons, I would just go ahead and trade, and I would let my wife do her venting and get over it. You wouldn't believe how many times I have done that over the years. :smile:

I just bought the Cobalt ten months ago. There is absolutley nothing wrong with it. It gets pretty decent gas mileage, too. I got 28.4 MPG on the last tank when I filled up while ago. That was just on my normal driving.

There is no doubt in my mind that the Yaris would hold its value better and would need fewer repairs down the road, if any at all. It sure sounds to me like I could count on 40 MPG on a typical tank of gas vs. my current 28 MPG. That would offset about $30 per month of the higher car payment, meaning I would be spending about $56 more per month on the combined expenditure for gas and car payment than I am now.

Favoring the Cobalt is its size compared to the Yaris (compact vs. subcompact) and its acceleration. Of course, keeping it would mean making 53 more payments of $228 vs. making 60 payments of $314 (taking the zero percent interest option rather than the $1000 cash).

If I felt strongly enough about this, I would just do it, like I have so many times before. My wife has managed to get over it every time so far. :biggrin:

EVERYONE among my family and friends is telling me that I would be an idiot to trade. I just wish I could make this decision without all the pressure. It would be nice to be able to just think it through and do what I think would make me happy in the long run, without having to worry about who is going to get upset about it.

Tom

[NaturalTopaz]

Then, by all means, wait. Your options will get better, devote extra payments to your cobalt and pay it down (every extra $ helps in the monthly payment). Toyota has some plans in place for its little tyke and you'll have wider options available in just a couple of years. The Yaris will be around for a while.

[YarisOwnersDad]

What is "dealer holdback" and also what EXACTLY is invoice and how much negotiating room is there around that?

Thanks


Mater:

Hold back is what the dealers make when they sell a car at invoice price. I believe it is normally three percent of the invoice price. Invoice price is what dealers pay the factory for the car, but they get three percent back.


MSRP is "Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price," and that is what you see on the window sticker. "Sticker price," in other words. The difference between sticker price and invoice price is profit for the dealer.

A good way to shop for cars is to make the dealer show you the invoice and tell him what you are willing to pay in relation to invoice price. The dealers like for us to use MSRP as the baseline, but savvy car buyers work off of invoice price.

Tomster

[tomato]

Mater:

Hold back is what the dealers make when they sell a car at invoice price. I believe it is normally three percent of the invoice price. Invoice price is what dealers pay the factory for the car, but they get three percent back.


MSRP is "Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price," and that is what you see on the window sticker. "Sticker price," in other words. The difference between sticker price and invoice price is profit for the dealer.

A good way to shop for cars is to make the dealer show you the invoice and tell him what you are willing to pay in relation to invoice price. The dealers like for us to use MSRP as the baseline, but savvy car buyers work off of invoice price.

Tomster

Awesome. Thanks, that helps a lot!

Don't laugh but all this talk about trading in had me doing a lot of thinking lately :wink: I'm in no hurry, though, but it's a never a bad idea to be ready. You just never know when a good opportunity might present itself! :biggrin:

[YarisOwnersDad]

Awesome. Thanks, that helps a lot!

Don't laugh but all this talk about trading in had me doing a lot of thinking lately :wink: I'm in no hurry, though, but it's a never a bad idea to be ready. You just never know when a good opportunity might present itself! :biggrin:

Since cars are equipped differently, it is hard to know what kind of deals people are getting, unless they get a car equipped just like the one you want to buy. Someone can tell you what he paid for his car, but if he had fewer options than you want, his price is not directly comparable with yours. The same would be true if he were getting more options.

The beauty of working with invoice price is that you can compare deals on cars that do not necessarily have the same options. Find out what people are paying in relation to invoice for the type of car you want, and then start calling dealers asking them how much in relation to invoice they are willing to sell your type of car for. Obviously, invoice is higher on a car with more options and is less on cars with fewer options, but for comparing deals, finding out how much over or under invoice the dealer is willing to sell for will give you a good idea of how good the deal is.

Tom

[roxy1]

IM







FEELING







THIS








ISNT










OVER:iono:

[tomato]

:bellyroll: LOL Roxy!

[YarisOwnersDad]

You might be right, Roxy. :smile:

I have always before gone ahead and made the deal when I have gotten this torn up over a car.

Tom

[cdavidhess]

I repeat my earlier comment:

I've bought 22 new cars in the last 32 years. I know what new car fever is like. I also like to play with car salesmen. Of course, I'm a bachelor. :smile:

Of course, if you weren't married, you would not have your son. So you would not have gone car shopping with him. So you wouldn't have got infected with the Yaris bug!

[tomato]

Since cars are equipped differently, it is hard to know what kind of deals people are getting, unless they get a car equipped just like the one you want to buy. Someone can tell you what he paid for his car, but if he had fewer options than you want, his price is not directly comparable with yours. The same would be true if he were getting more options.

The beauty of working with invoice price is that you can compare deals on cars that do not necessarily have the same options. Find out what people are paying in relation to invoice for the type of car you want, and then start calling dealers asking them how much in relation to invoice they are willing to sell your type of car for. Obviously, invoice is higher on a car with more options and is less on cars with fewer options, but for comparing deals, finding out how much over or under invoice the dealer is willing to sell for will give you a good idea of how good the deal is.

Tom


I understand that part. Kind of like buying a computer directly from the manufacturer's website and configuring the options you like, and seeing the price change depending on what you want. No problem.

The part that confuses me a bit more is all the game playing at the dealership, the back-and-forth between the sales guy and the guy in the back office, and all this other stuff, the last minute paperwork, add-ons, etc.. I didn't know you could ask to see the invoice, so thanks for that.

BTW, would the invoice price be the same thing as the price quoted on Toyota manufacturer's website when you configure your vehicle yourself?

Sorry if these questions seem real basic but always bought my cars used from private parties before I got this Yaris, and getting a car from a dealership (even a used car) is a bit of a headache if you're not used to the process. :bonk:

PS. And these questions help the wanna-be Yaris owners out there still lurking in the forum :biggrin:

[YarisOwnersDad]

Hi Tom...Dan here...I just bought our 2nd Yaris Auto (no power) sedan in under 2 years. The first was an 07 Flint Mica- love the car and color..last week I bought an 09 (wife is getting the 07 and her old Taurus going to our son).
The 09 is Silver Streak Mica althoiugh another Flint Mica woulda been fine.

I'm 53. I thought this may help you.

I have never bought a car without the dealer going into holdback on it.

That said I have always bought either at the end of a model year or end of a month. I bought the 09 on 3-31-09. Better bargaining position in my humble opinion.

Now back to dealer holdback. The dealer does have more room on your cobalt because in effect if he is selling you the new yaris AT invoice (and ask to see the invoice of course) he still has approx. $275.00 which was the dealer holdback on my 09 auto sedan (with no power just conv. pkg,all weather and mats).

So if he "begs" the trade in guy to go to 8750 on your cobalt then tell him you are going to wait until May...go in on the 29th or 30th of April and tell him you will buy if he goes 8750 on the trade AND goes 200.00 into the Holdback. Or just give you 8950 for the trade and sell the car to me AT invoice.

Hope that helps Tom.

Both times I was under invoice on the Yarii because I refused to buy at or over invoice and played 3 dealers (Bermuda Triangle) against each other in a 45 mile radius. It always works for me here in upstate NY.

Good Luck.

-Dan

Dan:

Thanks for the nice long post. I appreciate your taking the time to do that for me.

You know, I would not lose sleep if I thought that maybe I had left a couple hundred bucks on the table after agreeing to a deal. I don't want to be ripped off, but allowing the dealer to make a couple hundred bucks above his absolute minimum profit margin doesn't bother me all that much, ESCPECIALLY if I am going to be going to that dealership for service after the sale.

I feel that I am ALWAYS treated better in the service departments of the dealerships where the cars were bought. Warranty work has to be done by any dealer, I know, but the dealership service departments where I have bought my cars seem to work with me better on scheduling, and they have also done a lot of things to save me money.

The Service Manager and the Parts Manager have a lot of discretion on what they can charge the customer, and that can be worth much more in the long run than the $200 or $300 one might have saved on the trade by going somewhere else.

Maybe one of these days I will get that Yaris! :smile:

Thanks again.

Tom

[YarisOwnersDad]

I understand that part. Kind of like buying a computer directly from the manufacturer's website and configuring the options you like, and seeing the price change depending on what you want. No problem.

The part that confuses me a bit more is all the game playing at the dealership, the back-and-forth between the sales guy and the guy in the back office, and all this other stuff, the last minute paperwork, add-ons, etc.. I didn't know you could ask to see the invoice, so thanks for that.

BTW, would the invoice price be the same thing as the price quoted on Toyota manufacturer's website when you configure your vehicle yourself?

Sorry if these questions seem real basic but always bought my cars used from private parties before I got this Yaris, and getting a car from a dealership (even a used car) is a bit of a headache if you're not used to the process. :bonk:

PS. And these questions help the wanna-be Yaris owners out there still lurking in the forum :biggrin:

No, absolutely not! They would give you MSRP, or "sticker price." In the "old days," the customer never saw the invoice, and it would have been considered "rude" to ask to see it. I guess it was only after websites like Edmunds.com started posting invoice prices that it became common practice for customers to know how much in relation to invoice they were paying for their cars.

Don't be embarrassed about asking questions, Mater. No one is going to make fun of you for it. How else are you going to learn?

Tom

[YarisOwnersDad]

Here we go again! Please tell me if I am simply trying to justify this trade, or is this really a logical way to weigh the pros and cons of trading my Cobalt for a Yaris. If I am being unbiased and am truly considering all the pertinent factors, then this trade seems to be a reasonable thing to do. It would be sort of a toss up, I think. It sure does NOT make the trade sound like utter foolishness.

I posted this in my Yaris World blog.

"Am I just rationalizing, or does looking at it this way really make sense?

If I keep the Cobalt, I pay 53 more payments of $228, or $12,084.

If I trade for the Yaris sedan, which stickers at $16,514, and if I take the dealer up on his offer to sell the Yaris at $100 over invoice and to allow me $8500 trade-in on the Cobalt, and if I go with the 0% interest for 60 months that is available now, I will pay 60 payments of $314, or $18,840.

The difference, then, between paying off the Cobalt and trading it in on the new Yaris is $6756. A conservative estimate of savings on fuel during those 60 months is $1800, and that asssumes that gas stays at $2.00 per gallon. Who believes THAT is gonna happen?

So, $6756 minus the $1800 fuel savings means that the net effect of this trade over the next five years would be no more than $4956.

What would the difference in resale value be between a six year old Cobalt with 108,000 miles on it vs. a five year old Yaris with 90,000 miles on it? Would that possibly be another $1500 to $2000 that I could knock off from that $4956 cost to trade?

Somebody chime in here and help me!

Tom"

[evil genius]

This could be a stretch but with GM on the edge of collapse, the value of the cobalt could be $0 by the end of this year.

[frownonfun]

GM isn't gonna collapse. geez. bankruptcy maybe but the company will still be there all the same.

[evil genius]

GM isn't gonna collapse. geez. bankruptcy maybe but the company will still be there all the same.

Sorry if I offended you. I thought that saying it was a stretch would imply that I was kidding.

Just trying to help the guy out. When I try to justify something I grasp at every last straw I can get.

[YarisOwnersDad]

I appreciate all the help I can get. :smile:

Tom

[evil genius]

Here's a real factor to look into. Possible tax credit on new car purchases through end of 2009.
As long as you make less than $250,000 a year and purchase a car less than $50,000 you could qualify for tax credit on interest and sales/excise tax.

[Ed_]

Dont' know if Insurance would become a factor?
Of course you haven't mentioned upgrades:-)
And then again, have you figured in the counseling sessions if you don't get a Yaris:-)
Just asking;-)

[tomato]

No, absolutely not! They would give you MSRP, or "sticker price." In the "old days," the customer never saw the invoice, and it would have been considered "rude" to ask to see it. I guess it was only after websites like Edmunds.com started posting invoice prices that it became common practice for customers to know how much in relation to invoice they were paying for their cars.

Don't be embarrassed about asking questions, Mater. No one is going to make fun of you for it. How else are you going to learn?

Tom

Really?!!! Good to know!!! Thank you!!! :w00t:

[tomato]

Here's a real factor to look into. Possible tax credit on new car purchases through end of 2009.
As long as you make less than $250,000 a year and purchase a car less than $50,000 you could qualify for tax credit on interest and sales/excise tax.

Tax credit? Please tell us more!

[roxy1]

What would the difference in resale value be between a six year old Cobalt with 108,000 miles on it vs. a five year old Yaris with 90,000 miles on it? Would that possibly be another $1500 to $2000 that I could knock off from that $4956 cost to trade?
[/I][/B]

i think safe to say a 5 yr old yaris sedan w/ 90k would easily be worth more than a six yr old cobalt w/ 108k. how much exactly is hard to say. as gas prices shoot up, the difference should increase even more.

to be blunt about it, it is hard to imagine that with your history you will be driving the yaris 5 years from now.

does this sound familiar?

"I said somewhere up this thread that I have never made a trade that I regretted, and that is true of each deal individually. Collectively, however, there have been way too many trades, and I regret having made so many."

[frownonfun]

Sorry if I offended you. I thought that saying it was a stretch would imply that I was kidding.

Just trying to help the guy out. When I try to justify something I grasp at every last straw I can get.

no i'm not offended. i've never really owned anything but honda, toyota, or yamaha. when i had a choice that is. didn't realize you were kidding. my bad.



as for the OP i think you should just buy the yaris already.

[cdavidhess]

Tax credit? Please tell us more!

Special Tax Break Available for New Car Purchases This Year (http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=205863,00.html)


IR-2009-30, March 30, 2009

WASHINGTON — The Internal Revenue Service announced today that taxpayers who buy a new passenger vehicle this year may be entitled to deduct state and local sales and excise taxes paid on the purchase on their 2009 tax returns next year.

“For those thinking about buying a new car this year, this deduction may give them a little more drive to make their purchase this year,” said IRS Commissioner Doug Shulman. “This deduction enables taxpayers to buy now and get cash back later on their tax returns.”

The deduction is limited to the state and local sales and excise taxes paid on up to $49,500 of the purchase price of a qualified new car, light truck, motor home or motorcycle.

The amount of the deduction is phased out for taxpayers whose modified adjusted gross income is between $125,000 and $135,000 for individual filers and between $250,000 and $260,000 for joint filers.

IRS also alerted taxpayers that the vehicle must be purchased after Feb. 16, 2009, and before Jan. 1, 2010, to qualify for the deduction.

The special deduction is available regardless of whether a taxpayer itemizes deductions on their return. The IRS reminded taxpayers the deduction may not be taken on 2008 tax returns.

[tomato]

:biggrin: Thanks you for the link! ^
Although at the same time, California has increased the sales tax and income tax, so... I will definitely check that out, thanks!!!

[Yaris Hilton]

That actually spurred my wife and me to go looking, ending in our buying two new Yarises. That and recent slow sales causing nice sales incentives and flexible deals.

[tomato]

^ gotcha. What were you driving before, Yaris Hilton?

BTW, I found this at Turbotax:


"Deduct the Sales Tax Paid on a New Car
If you buy a new car, pickup truck, motorcycle or motor home this year you could qualify for a new sales tax deduction, thanks to the stimulus law passed on February 17, 2009.

You can deduct the sales tax you pay on a new vehicle, if you buy it between February 17 and December 31, 2009. And you get this tax break even if you claim the standard deduction—as most taxpayers do—rather than itemizing deductions on your tax return.

For people who take the standard deduction on their 2009 returns next spring, the sales tax deduction will be added to their standard deduction. For example, the standard deduction for married couples for 2009 is $11,400. If a couple pays 6 percent sales tax on a $30,000 car, they can add the $1,800 sales tax to the $11,400 and claim a standard deduction of $13,200. That $1,800 deduction could be worth as much as $450 in tax savings for a car buyer who’s in the 25 percent tax bracket.

Taxpayers who itemize deductions will include their vehicle sales taxes with other qualifying expenses, such as state and local income and property taxes, mortgage interest, charitable contributions and medical expenses ... "

http://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tools/tax-tips/deductions-and-credits/7113.html

hmmm... :biggrin:

[Yaris Hilton]

I was driving a pretty red 1995 Volvo 850 Turbo with spoiler, mag wheels and sunroof. Nice fun car, but it needed work soon.

[YarisOwnersDad]

MAJOR DEVELOPMENT!

The wife has agreed to take a trip down to Clarksville, TN, about an hour away, where they have a couple of the Flint Mica Yarii and a few in other colors. I want to see as many colors live and in person as possible before I buy. This is the dealership where my dealer will be getting my car, if I go with the Flint Mica or some other color that they have and that my dealer doesn't have.

This does not mean that I have the green light from the wife to get a Yaris, but it is a major step in the right direction.

Woooooooohooooooooooo!!!!!!!

Tomster

[MadMax]

I was driving a pretty red 1995 Volvo 850 Turbo with spoiler, mag wheels and sunroof. Nice fun car, but it needed work soon.

Ditto here, a 96 VW Passat GLX wagon with the VR6 and a 5-speed. Had it almost ten years (bought it when we got back from Germany, and shipped it over to Belgium on my own nickel); but it was starting to show its age. It was a blast to drive, fast as snot (had a Neuspeed P-flow & K&N air filter on it, so it had a real vicious induction sound to it), and handled great; but I was destined for trouble in it, so I got the Yaris.

The funny thing is, my wife was the one who pushed getting Sprocket, God bless her little heart! And I have slowed down considerably in it, as it is fun to drive that way. On my way home from work on Friday, a truck coming from the other direction was flashing its lights at me, the usual sign there was a police car with radar up ahead; but I was going five miles under the speed limit on this particular back road. I just smiled as I passed the cop car hidden in the bushes...:w00t:

I don't know why, but I have no desire to drive this car like a maniac! :burnrubber:

Cheers! M2

[YarisOwnersDad]

OK, we are back from Clarksville, and I think the wife has resolved herself to the fact that I am about to become a Yaris owner, which is a step short of endorsing my purchase, but, hey, I'll settle for "resovled." :thumbup:

Now, help me pick the color. I am still not sure about Flint Mica. It's OK, but I'm not sure it is my top choice any more. Well, Barcelona Red Metallic is my TOP choice, but because of Wes having that color, I cannot get one. They had a white one that looked good, but my Cobalt is white. Still, I would consider white, and there is already a white one at my local dealer, so he might knock off a hundred or so for not having to do a dealer trade. That Pacific Blue did not look bad. Silver was a good color, but the only silver was an "S" model. That doesn't meant that the local dealer couldn't locate a silver base sedan elsewhere, though. (Twit, I can see why you chose silver.)

Decisions, decisions, decisions! I LOVE IT!

I hope to be a Yaris owner sometime tomorrow!

Tom

[PETERPOOP]

WHITE. Easiest to keep clean. That and silver. If you get flint mica, scratches will show more. But depends what you want. If I could do it over again, I'd get black. Don't regret your choice! Think long and hard!

[cdavidhess]

I think she must love you.:smile:

[cdavidhess]

I like white!

http://theparson.net/yaris_front.jpg

[tomato]

Well, Barcelona Red Metallic is my TOP choice, but because of Wes having that color, I cannot get one.

Tom

Why not? That's the one you really want, isn't it?

I don't see why you're trying to compromise on a different color if that's the only one you like. If you're wife can get over it, then Wes definitely can, too :iono:

Can't help with the colors, because I haven't see them in person and colors are clearly a matter of personal taste.

:burnrubber:

[cdavidhess]

I agree. If you really like red, go for it!

[YarisOwnersDad]

No, Peeps, I won't do that to my son. He would die if I got one EXACTLY like his, color and all. I don't want to take away from his enjoyment of his new car.

His previous new cars were ones that I bought and made payments on while he was in school, the second of which he paid off a couple years ago. This is his first new car that I had nothing to do with, except to help him get a better deal.

Tom

[YarisOwnersDad]

I like white!

http://theparson.net/yaris_front.jpg


Me too, but my Cobalt is white, and I might be better satisfied getting something different this time. Maybe not, though.

Tom

[YarisOwnersDad]

Can you guys believe this? It looks like I am REALLY gonna get my Yaris!

Yeeeeeeeeeeeehawwwwwwwww!!!!!!!!!!!

Now, tell me the truth, how many of you thought that I would get a Yaris at this time? I sure had my ups and downs, didn't I? I had a wife big time opposed to my trading, and I had my own doubts about it. I just couldn't get the Yaris out of my mind, though. I couldn't give up on the idea. Thanks for all the support you guys and gals have given me. It is going to be a lot of fun belonging to this community as an actual Yaris owner!

Gonna have to re-register with a new username, huh? Maybe "DadGotOneToo," or "DadGot12?"

Tomster

[mr9865]

Best thread on the site!

[YarisOwnersDad]

How about "YarisOldAsYaFeel?" Would that be a good username?

Tomster

[mr9865]

I think you should just keep yours

[Yaris Hilton]

Resolved or resigned?

I sure do like my Barcelona Red Metallic. Didn't bother me a bit to see a 2007 that looks just like it twice in Johnson City this week. (A skinny redheaded college girl drives it and puts on her makeup while doing so.) :eek:

Do something else to distinguish yours from your son's, like put a spoiler or some wheels on it. Or a custom front license plate.