greddy turbo kit

[Scubaru Steve]

who all is running this kit?

so now we have had this kit for a while, it seems like this turbo just runs out of potential at 4500rpm... leave 1500 rpm of suck!.

ive been looking around and i have found people recommending a td04 hybrid.
funny thing is i have a td04 on my shelf.. then i found this!
http://i.ebayimg.com/13/!CB6!THQBGk~$(KGrHqQOKkIE0YRojg,kBNJbdwP-fg~~_12.JPG
http://cgi.ebay.ca/Turbo-CHRA-Upgrade-Mitsubishi-4M41T-TF035-3-TF035HL-15T-/280693763961?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item415aa6ef79

keeps the same turbine housing but center cartridge and comp housing is changed.
any thoughts? and i plan on doing a full port of the turbine housing to improve the flow rate at higher rpm as well.

[thebarber]

are you tuned?

[cali yaris]

Go for it! Then report!

[Scubaru Steve]

are you tuned?

haltech sprint 500 is on the way, no piggy back can tame this echo.
it seem like its standalone or nothing.... unless there is an fic pro in alberta.

[ilikerice]

so now we have had this kit for a while, it seems like this turbo just runs out of potential at 4500rpm... leave 1500 rpm of suck!

Has it always done this or is this a new problem recently?

In other words, did it spool up sooner then 4500 rmp's before?

[Scubaru Steve]

Has it always done this or is this a new problem recently?

In other words, did it spool up sooner then 4500 rmp's before?

5psi at 2-2200rpm. you can feel it running out of breath at higher rpm, and no, it has always been like that. we have a 2.25 straight through exhaust. so there is no choking. intake is free flowing as well.

[johnny_vitz]

are you tuned?

Is it? Emanage blue is working well for me

[ilikerice]

5psi at 2-2200rpm. you can feel it running out of breath at higher rpm, and no, it has always been like that. we have a 2.25 straight through exhaust. so there is no choking. intake is free flowing as well.

yea dude, sounds like you need a turbo upgrade.. I think you have pushed everything that turbo has to offer.

I agree with CaliYaris, get it and report back to us. lol, if you gots the money

[thebarber]

Is it? Emanage blue is working well for me

but didnt you say the tune from greddy left a lot on the table...?

[pimp my yaris]

I got my FIC dialed in great.

[Scubaru Steve]

well we have the fic and emanage blue for sale if anyone wants them.
the echo wont leave closed loop untill 5000rpm... its stupid. and still.
we had the fic tuned great. but it only works 50% of the time. this echo is just taking us for a ride, so go standalone and no more fighting with the factory ecu.

im thinking that this compressor upgrade still wont help top end, and looking at the dimensions. i dont think it will even clear the valve cover.
so im thinking i need to buy a microimage manifold, turbo and dp and start over.... sigh* anyone want to buy a greddy turbo kit? its sad becuase 5psi is had right at 2000 rpm....

[Focus_Sh1ft]

Uh... Why don't you just turn up the boost if you're concerned with making more power? That compressor housing still isn't a bad idea though.

I really don't think it's worth wasting money on a standalone unless you have substantial boost (10+psi) and even possibly a built engine / cams / head. You can get the FIC "working" 100% of the time by just tuning in open loop bro.

[Scubaru Steve]

Uh... Why don't you just turn up the boost if you're concerned with making more power? That compressor housing still isn't a bad idea though.

I really don't think it's worth wasting money on a standalone unless you have substantial boost (10+psi) and even possibly a built engine / cams / head. You can get the FIC "working" 100% of the time by just tuning in open loop bro.

larger compressor housing will help, but with that added air going through, there is more air that needs to go through the already too small turbine housing. that make the exhaust very restrictive and limits power. you can run 20psi, but the restriction from the exhaust will make the added boost pressure useless.

as i said before the car doesnt go into open loop untill 5000rpm at times and full boost is had before 2500rpm, we could force open loop but that isnt what we want for a daily driver. i have been thinking a lot about this project.

[Bluevitz-rs]

Before you get too far, try one thing for me. (Something I wanted to try myself but forgot to before taking everything off...) Unplug the VVT-i solenoid and give it a go again. I was also going to close the gap on the plugs a bit thinking maybe the spark is getting blown out at higher RPM.

[Focus_Sh1ft]

larger compressor housing will help, but with that added air going through, there is more air that needs to go through the already too small turbine housing. that make the exhaust very restrictive and limits power. you can run 20psi, but the restriction from the exhaust will make the added boost pressure useless.

as i said before the car doesnt go into open loop untill 5000rpm at times and full boost is had before 2500rpm, we could force open loop but that isnt what we want for a daily driver. i have been thinking a lot about this project.

There's no reason why you can't open up the exhaust more. What's the downpipe / rest of the exhaust diameter?

I think it goes without saying you want the turbine a/r to be as small as possible though to get those ridiculous 2k rpm spool up times. However, you say you want more power in the top end, then state it's for a daily driver. You can somewhat have both, but which is more important to you?

As for the forced open loop tuning I can't stress enough how easy it is to deal with. I only have to make a couple tweaks when the weather gets substantially colder / hotter. Since I've already made a winter map and now am running a summer map, I shouldn't even need to do any tweaking next season.

Oh and also:
spark is getting blown out at higher RPM.

If you have this problem you'll know it lol. At least I did. You can feel the "hesitation."

[Scubaru Steve]

Before you get too far, try one thing for me. (Something I wanted to try myself but forgot to before taking everything off...) Unplug the VVT-i solenoid and give it a go again. I was also going to close the gap on the plugs a bit thinking maybe the spark is getting blown out at higher RPM.

i shall do that, the one thing i did notice, since the car is not tuned, i have the wastegate lock wired 100% open. and as we get to 5000 rpm we hit 5psi.

[johnny_vitz]

but didnt you say the tune from greddy left a lot on the table...?

The base map from Greddy was awful, that's why I was wondering if he had it properly tuned. It works awesome now, no bog anywhere and it pulls hard all the time

[Scubaru Steve]

There's no reason why you can't open up the exhaust more. What's the downpipe / rest of the exhaust diameter?

cast greddy manifold, dp is a belmouth cast 2-21/4, the rest is 2 1/4, 2 resinators and a straight through dynomax.

I think it goes without saying you want the turbine a/r to be as small as possible though to get those ridiculous 2k rpm spool up times. However, you say you want more power in the top end, then state it's for a daily driver. You can somewhat have both, but which is more important to you?
need the top end because of the automatic, it sucks so bad when you stand on it, car downshifts and its not even in its power band. id rather it spool at 3k rpm and have the power up top.

As for the forced open loop tuning I can't stress enough how easy it is to deal with. I only have to make a couple tweaks when the weather gets substantially colder / hotter. Since I've already made a winter map and now am running a summer map, I shouldn't even need to do any tweaking next season.
any tips on forcing open loop when entering boost? coolant temp wont work as car is set to shift at 4k rpm if its cold. any ideas would be great.
a 3psi trigger would be sweet.

[Focus_Sh1ft]

Oh man, I didn't realize it was automatic. I feel your pain lol... Shifts are TERRIBLE with a turbo on an automatic that isn't factory. Honestly, I think putting in / changing the housing to get a higher CFM is only going to make the current problem worse. I don't know what the Echo is like, but I know with the Yaris I really have to let off the throttle and help the trans shift. And past 4-4.5k RPMs forget it lol.

As for forcing open loop... I did some research that I'll dig up and show you. However none of it was very promising and I quickly gave up when I saw how easy it was to tune in open loop. Your other option is an O2 skew - weren't you doing that?

Ok, here were the ways to enter open loop:

1. TPS > 75%
2. Cold start until water temp > ? (Can't find the exact temperature)
3. DFCO

One thought I also had:

Oh and also - I was reading the service manual and noticed the AFR sensor heater operates between .9 and 10 Amps. A code is thrown if the current drops below .8A. Could it be possible to greatly limit the current that reaches the heater? My thought is that maybe, just maybe, we could limit its performance enough to prevent the AFR sensor from functioning correctly, thus putting the car in open loop.

Unfortunately you can't do much with option 1 because TPS directly affects fuel injection so you'll be flooding the engine by manipulating it at < 75%. Option 2 really needs to be researched more because it's the best bet. Option 3 is basically equal to pulling the AFR plug.

The first idea that comes to mind for me is to create a circuit. Basically you would monitor tps and as soon as the tps is reached where boost begins building, have a switch throw automatically to drop water temp to the point of throwing open loop. I'm not sure how you would build such a circuit, but I'm pretty sure it's theoretically possible.

That's enough rambling for one day. :laugh:

[cali yaris]

Couldn't you just split the TPS wire, sending it to both the ECU and the aftermarket management, and manipulate one signal so TPS is always > 75% to the management?

I'm not an engineer or knowledgeable about electronics, it just seems like an easy circuit to build to cheat the system.

[Focus_Sh1ft]

I don't think that would work. Here's why: If you manipulate the ECU side of the TPS circuit you'll be causing all sorts of problems. If you manipulate the FIC side of the circuit it still won't throw the car into open loop.

Oh and splitting the circuit would split the amperage as well. The ECU probably won't like that too much lol.

[Bluevitz-rs]

I know that if the ecu doesn't see the car warming up within a certain time it WILL through a code for thermostat failure. I know this because I've had it happen on our '03 Matrix XRS. So tricking the ECU into thinking it's staying cold or switching back and forth will only work for a while.

[thebarber]

as i posted in february http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showpost.php?p=557522&postcount=18

i have a couple of friends with s/c'd 2zz's, here is what was said via msn...
adam barber says:
do you know how evil and pmag tuned w/ piggyback?

is it all open loop?

i seem to recall evil had some kind of trick to fool the maf or ecu or something...

drunkennewfiemidget says:

Yea..

The ECU goes into open loop when you go WOT.

So he has the TPS signal run into a relay.

And then the emanage outputs a faked TPS signal.

When it detects boost, the relay fires (digital output), switching the tps signal from the actual tps to the faked tps value from the emanage.

Putting the car into open loop.

The other option is to tap into narrowband and fake the o2 reading to have the factory ecu richen the mixture.

[Focus_Sh1ft]

^ WOW. That makes perfect sense. The injectors will have the completely wrong duty cycle as a result, but that's where the piggyback comes in. I'm curious though - wouldn't the ECU see this as a circuit failure and immediately throw the car into fail safe? Even if not immediately, the same could happen after a few drive cycles.

[thebarber]

my friends have been using this on their boosted xrs's for at least 2 years w/o issue

[Scubaru Steve]

my only concern with at is that with an auto will it downshift when that signal goes to 100%.
not sure how the auto works.

[Bluevitz-rs]

I'm starting to think this is the problem with making high RPM power. The ports for each cylinder are like 3/4 each max, to an opening for the turbo that's what, maybe 1.5".

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c250/BLUEVITZ/DSC_5799.jpg

[Scubaru Steve]

im wondering, if a dremel my help, or reduce flow.
im still leaning towards the mirco manifold and a t3 turbo .43ar. just think it may be overkill. hard to say. i cannot find a gt25 with the .6ar for under 500..

buy me suby spun a bearing and i think i need to start focusing on that for a while :frown:

[Blown_xa]

im wondering, if a dremel my help, or reduce flow.
im still leaning towards the mirco manifold and a t3 turbo .43ar. just think it may be overkill. hard to say. i cannot find a gt25 with the .6ar for under 500..

buy me suby spun a bearing and i think i need to start focusing on that for a while :frown:

I had the Greddy kit for years, and eventually figured out how to get the most out of it. I can tell you, the tiny turbo is still big enough to exceed the strength of a stock motor. The key is, having a short intake to cut down suctional loss. That along with a 3'' exhaust will enable you to make power to redline. I saw a 25whp gain going from 2.25 to 3'', and a 17whp gain running a short intake (moved maf to charge pipe / blow through setup) . This was all at moderate boost levels, nothing crazy.

Also, with your tuning issues ... the emanage should work just fine. Sounds like you pegged out your maf voltage.... anything over 5psi I would tune utilizing greddy pressure sensor, and clamp maf to 4.3v.

[Blown_xa]

I just checked out your pics in your other thread, definately ditch that soft rubber 90 degree coupler on your turbo inlet. I have seen that very coupler colapse from the suction the turbo creates while boosting, claiming gobs of power. Even if you dont do a short intake , change that coupler to a rienforced 4 ply.

[Scubaru Steve]

do you have any pics of your old setup? i already upgraded the inlet elbow, and dont know how to make the intake much shorter.
the emanage did nothing for us so we went with the fic already, still have the emanage laying around. the big problem is with the echo it tries to stay in closed loop as long as possible. ive seen it stay as long as 5000rpm. so tuning is a challange. what kind of top end did you get out of this turbo? full boost at 2200rpm and being able to flow air at 6000rpm isnt easy for most turbos on the market, my wrx has the same spool characteristics and ran out of flow at 5000rpm.
i know im not maxing maf voltage yet, still only at 5psi. and im at 12:1 afr so its not a fueling issue.

im interested in any information on your setup, pics, dynos, tuning. how you beat closed loop ect.

Thanks.

[Blown_xa]

As far as the intake , trimming of the rain gutter is required. It isnt hard though , as the whole thing unbolts (after removing wipers, wiper motor assembly ). This is the only picture I could find below. The filter is tucked under plastic cowling with a red hydrashield. The green lines ( solid is hp, dotted is torque) on the dyno graph represent the greddy kit maxed out with 3'' exhaust, water meth, and intercooler . It holds boost well to redline and still made power to there. It was 19 to 21 psi, cant remember exactly. Just as a reference point, 86whp is what a stock MT 1nzfe puts down on our dyno. 116whp is what the Greddy kit puts down out of the box with stock exhaust. 225whp is what a stock evo puts down.

[ilikerice]

is what the Greddy kit puts down out of the box with stock exhaust

How much PSI does the Greddy kit come when installed? 30Whp gain is kinda low for a turbo. Is that 4-6psi?

[Bluevitz-rs]

The kit is set at 5 psi out of the box with no intercooler.

[ilikerice]

ahh, coolbeans.. that makes sense then. thanks