Help negotiating on a price

[msmith]

I have a question and I hope I'm in the right spot. I'm totally new to this site. After a lot of research, I've decided to get a Yaris. I'm wondering how much I can I talk a dealer down on a new 2012 4-door LE hatchback with only 130 miles? Their sticker price is $16,696 and I want to pay cash. My goal is to go in with $13 or $14,000 and see if they'll take it but is that too low?

[bronsin]

Sounds low but you never know. Its a 2012 and soon the 2014s will be in.

Its like throwing a plate of spaghetti against the wall.

Do it and see what sticks.

Make your offer and if they dont go for it walk out. :headbang:

Just make sure they have your phone #. :thumbsup:

[msmith]

Thanks! I also might bringing a guy friend along. I'm worried, as a woman, they'll think I don't know anything about cars and try to take advantage.

[NEexpat]

One thing I have learned over the years buying cars is to be prepared to get up and walk out the door. Don't feel you have to buy anything.

Don't tell them you need a car, don't tell them you are going to pay cash, nowadays I wouldn't tie up 15k-16k if I am only paying .9% interest etc. But that is up to you. Save the cash thing until you have gotten their best last botton price and then use that to knock it down a little more. Some dealers don't care either way.

There are sites out there that can tell you what the dealer paid for the car, then it it is just a question of how much you're going to pay over their invoice.

And just because you got the price you wanted from the salesman/woman you will then face the finance manager who is going to try to upsell you all kinds of stuff you can/can't live without. Scotchguarding, rustproofing, transparent film paint protectors, extended warranties etc.

Just be prepared to walk if you are not !00% comfortable. Any "deal" only good today will probably be good tomorrow.

Good luck, cheers

[djhuddy2442]

listen anyone who has any quesstions about buying their next car yaris or not i am a car consultant for a dealership i will be glad to help in any way i can looking up VIN to even helping with prices and whats fair

[Septembersrain]

Definitely agree on bringing a guy friend. Either that or go in a really nice decked out suit.
Play hard ball.
The best negotiating tactic is to appear as if you've got plenty of options.
Bring in your patience and best poker face.
Tell them how much you want the car for but aim low first.
Bring in market values, KBB pricing, any other collateral with pricing that fits what you want to pay.
Then as you've already given them a lower price first, You can negotiate up into the middle (With the extras you want) and end up paying right around what you originally could afford.

Don't get too excited about the car even if you really are.
They'll see that.
As a sales person myself, You can definitely gauge how much a person is willing to bend by their want for the item.

I'd suggest going later in the day, The sales people and finance are likely ready to go home.
Buy the car between Monday-Thursday, Less people to contend with as well.
If they are about to close and have had a slow day, They may be more likely to jump through hoops for you.
Just keep in mind that it's okay to walk away.
If you sit on it for a few days and you made sure they knew that you were absolutely serious and sure, 90% they'll call you.

Sneaky tip: Pick out a newer sales person. They'll likely not know exactly how much leeway they've got so they may be easier to get into a negotiation.
They are also trying to prove their worth as the sales industry is full of turn-over, So they'll try to play "Hero" by getting you a better deal than anyone else.

Also, remember cash talks. ;-P

Good luck!:clap:

[djhuddy2442]

Definitely agree on bringing a guy friend. Either that or go in a really nice decked out suit.
Play hard ball.
The best negotiating tactic is to appear as if you've got plenty of options.
Bring in your patience and best poker face.
Tell them how much you want the car for but aim low first.
Bring in market values, KBB pricing, any other collateral with pricing that fits what you want to pay.
Then as you've already given them a lower price first, You can negotiate up into the middle and end up paying right around what you originally could afford.

Don't get too excited about the car even if you really are.
They'll see that.
As a sales person myself, You can definitely gauge how much a person is willing to bend by their want for the item.

I'd suggest going later in the day, The sales people and finance are likely ready to go home.
Buy the car between Monday-Thursday, Less people to contend with as well.
If they are about to close and have had a slow day, They may be more likely to jump through hoops for you.
Just keep in mind that it's okay to walk away.
If you sit on it for a few days and you made sure they knew that you were absolutely serious and sure, 90% they'll call you.

Sneaky tip: Pick out a newer sales person. They'll likely not know exactly how much leeway they've got so they may be easier to get into a negotiation.
They are also trying to prove their worth as the sales industry is full of turn-over, So they'll try to play "Hero" by getting you a better deal than anyone else.

Good luck!:clap:

only problem with the new salesman theory sometimes they are watched like a hawk by their manager and dont get much leeway so yea sometimes good sometimes bad

[Septembersrain]

only problem with the new salesman theory sometimes they are watched like a hawk by their manager and dont get much leeway so yea sometimes good sometimes bad

Good point.
You can't go asking all of them who hasn't reached their quota either. LOL
Who do you recommend in terms of sales person?

[sex]

Ask for AAA/Costco pricing if you're a member

[YarisSedan]

I used to be a car salesman years ago and I can tell you the markup on the base model car is a lot lower than their mid range to high end cars which means they have less room to negotiate on price. Sometimes the markup is only 500 dollars. So after delivery fees the dealer may have actually paid about 16,000 for the car more than likely they arent going to sell it for less than what they paid for it. Some delears you can ask to see the invoice and offer 100 bucks above the dealer cost on on the low end models and they might take it depending on how slow the month is and if they want to push a few cars out to get some newer models. I highly doubt you will get it for 13,000 thats how much my girlfriend paid for her used 09 yaris. Keep in mind you have to pay taxes as well so even if you can get them down to 15k your going to be back up to 16 after taxes and title transfer fees.

[Hershey]

Go to KBB , Edmunds , and NADA to get a used trade in value of the car . Put in the current mileage , condition as Excellent , etc.. Then get an average price of all 3 sites as a purchase point ( ex. $13,850 + $ $14,780 + $15,200 divided by 3 , thus $14,610 ) . You'll see a big dip when driving off the lot . If they won't move , then go elsewhere . I believe YARIS sales are down and would work to your advantage . Good Luck .

[Foot]

I called around to 5.. different dealers all within a 100mile radius when I looked. Local dealer wanted 15.5k for a new 2010 base model with the package of 15rims, and few other things. Would not budge on price... none zero... after an hour of talking I left. Went on a 70mile trip and got the exact same car for 13k out the door. IF they want you to come in for a price, hang up and call someone else.

[nookandcrannycar]

I used to be a car salesman years ago and I can tell you the markup on the base model car is a lot lower than their mid range to high end cars which means they have less room to negotiate on price. Sometimes the markup is only 500 dollars. So after delivery fees the dealer may have actually paid about 16,000 for the car more than likely they arent going to sell it for less than what they paid for it. Some delears you can ask to see the invoice and offer 100 bucks above the dealer cost on on the low end models and they might take it depending on how slow the month is and if they want to push a few cars out to get some newer models.

True, but what matters is what the dealer effectively paid for the car, and this would include the monetary arrangement between the manufacturer (or distributor) and the dealer known as a 'holdback'. Any holdback will effectively reduce the amount the dealer is paying for the car (if a holdback exists for that model or trim level). The holdback isn't reflected on the invoice.

I would read Absolutely Red 12's posts re his purchases. Figure out the percentage he paid below the sticker (I figured it out when I was advising someone else, but I threw away my calculations... I may have included them on a post though). If your trim level, etc is different from his, just take the same percentage and apply it to the FACTORY sticker on the car you want and then offer the dealer that amount. If they say no, say "Why. I know someone who paid this amount". If they don't change the amount to match the calculation, contact another dealer. You have to negotiate from a position of strength and be willing to walk away. Absolutely Red 12 did this, and he never even visited any of the dealerships :thumbsup:.

[nookandcrannycar]

To the OP --- oops, I only read Yaris Sedan's post and didn't realize you were talking about a 2012 :redface:. However, my advice is still the same because I would wonder why a 2012 with 130 miles on it was on the lot. I'd try looking into what I mentioned in my post above re a 2013. Absolutely Red 12 just bought his son a 2013 Yaris, so I imagine he got a similarly great deal on the 2013. My ex- girlfriend's dad used to be able to get his Nissans for $50 (IIRC) over dealer cost INCLUDING the holdback because he bought 7 Nissans in a row from the same dealership (having as many as 4 at one time), got all of the maintenance and any needed repairs done at the dealership, and used that fact to hammer out the price he did.

[TRD15L]

just go in an ask who wants to make a sale today.
I am a buyer not a looker an see who wants to make some commission this month.

[Septembersrain]

just go in an ask who wants to make a sale today.
I am a buyer not a looker an see who wants to make some commission this month.

I go in as a looker, If they treat me good knowing I'm not buying, imagine how they'll treat me when I do buy. ^_^

[jambo101]

Be aware that dealers dont make that much profit on their economy cars, expecting them to lower their price by $2-$3K is wildly optimistic. But i guess it doesnt hurt to try.
I'd be really concerned about that 130 mile already on the car. When you ask why they'll probably say it had to be transferred from another dealer,at that point you say 130 miles makes that a used car,i'll give you $13K for it.
I'd also get it checked out by an independent mechanic to eliminate the possibility it wasnt in a wreck,if the dealer doesnt let you get it inspected dont even think of buying this car.
If a deal at a dealer doesnt go to your liking you have the final option of walking out the door and taking your business/money elsewhere.

[nookandcrannycar]

One thing I have learned over the years buying cars is to be prepared to get up and walk out the door. Don't feel you have to buy anything.

:clap:. Or hang up the phone without making a purchase if you are doing the whole thing by phone/fax as Absolutely Red 12 did.

Don't tell them you need a car, don't tell them you are going to pay cash, nowadays I wouldn't tie up 15k-16k if I am only paying .9% interest etc. But that is up to you. Save the cash thing until you have gotten their best last botton price and then use that to knock it down a little more. Some dealers don't care either way.

The only thing is, if you finance the car, then you have to spend the extra money to get collision and would only come out ahead if the after tax return on the money the car cost represents = more than the cost of adding collision insurance. I'd rather pay cash, not have collision, and rely on my driving skill to keep me free of damage to the car....betting that I won't need to write a check for damage or a new car. However, I probably wouldn't feel as I do if I had to drive during the winter in your area.

There are sites out there that can tell you what the dealer paid for the car, then it it is just a question of how much you're going to pay over their invoice.

Invoice doesn't include any holdback arrangement between the manufacturer and the dealer (if there is one), but knowing the invoice price is definitely better than not knowing.

And just because you got the price you wanted from the salesman/woman you will then face the finance manager who is going to try to upsell you all kinds of stuff you can/can't live without. Scotchguarding, rustproofing, transparent film paint protectors, extended warranties etc.

LOL. The upsell person (not the finance manager) re my Yaris looked like Kate Upton....and I had an older saleswoman directly before that....and the dealership I purchased from is in a fairly conservative area.

Just be prepared to walk if you are not !00% comfortable. Any "deal" only good today will probably be good tomorrow.

:thumbsup:

Good luck, cheers

[nookandcrannycar]

I'd be really concerned about that 130 mile already on the car. When you ask why they'll probably say it had to be transferred from another dealer,at that point you say 130 miles makes that a used car,i'll give you $13K for it.

I'd be more concerned that it was a previous model year. My Yaris has 120 miles on it -- the dealership of delivery = another dealership owned by the same family in an area with much less foot traffic and volume (north of CTScott and enviri's neck of the woods). I went with the flow as 5 speeds were so hard to find, and I haven't regretted that decision.

I'd also get it checked out by an independent mechanic to eliminate the possibility it wasnt in a wreck,if the dealer doesnt let you get it inspected dont even think of buying this car.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap: Absolutely on the money with this. Remember, as has been asked and answered on another thread, the odometer can be manipulated.

If a deal at a dealer doesnt go to your liking you have the final option of walking out the door and taking your business/money elsewhere.

:thumbsup:

[msmith]

This is all very helpful. Thank you.

[msmith]

Thanks everyone. I'm going in tomorrow to try an negotiate. We'll see what happens

[Absolutely Red 12]

I pm'd you.

But forgot to add one thing.

DO NOT walk in the front door cold.
The floor salespeople have no negotiating power, they will go back and forth to their manager.

CALL the "internet" "fleet" manager first, and either negotiate on the phone, or make an appointment to see him/her.

I negotiated the 2012, well I made an offer!! Over the phone, they called back and accepted. The 2013, I walked in with a prefilled check for the amount I wanted to pay.
I told them I only brought one.

[YarisSedan]

I pm'd you.

But forgot to add one thing.

DO NOT walk in the front door cold.
The floor salespeople have no negotiating power, they will go back and forth to their manager.

CALL the "internet" "fleet" manager first, and either negotiate on the phone, or make an appointment to see him/her.

I negotiated the 2012, well I made an offer!! Over the phone, they called back and accepted. The 2013, I walked in with a prefilled check for the amount I wanted to pay.
I told them I only brought one.

Yeah thats good advice the internet fleet manager has the most power to adjust the price when you deal directly through a salesman his comission comes out of the total sale so he will pretend to be your friend but really its a game they play between him and the sales manager they will go back in forth to make you think your getting the best deal but his commission comes out of a percentage of the total profit of the sale the dealer makes, if you go through fleet manager you cut out the middle man and without the dealer having the pay the salesman commission they are able to give you a better discount pretty much close to rock bottom you ever will get.

From my experience 90 percent of the cheapest sales are always through internet sales you can actually chat online with them before you even go down, when i bought my yaris it was through internet sales as well.

[Absolutely Red 12]

Definitely agree on bringing a guy friend. Either that or go in a really nice decked out suit.
Play hard ball.
The best negotiating tactic is to appear as if you've got plenty of options.
Bring in your patience and best poker face.


Good luck!:clap:

I wear jeans and a Motorhead t-shirt when I buy a car. If they judge me, they dont need to deal with me.
I'm a 56 year old ex-rocker with hair past my shoulders!!
Should have seen the faces when I walked in the door, sat in my future GTR, and told them I wanted to drive it off the floor!! Ironically, I had to deal with the sales manager, and negotiating price on a GTR, is unheard of.

I tell them, I want to buy a car, and spend no more than 45 minutes in that showroom.


The best negotiating tactic, is walking out the door. Yaris sales were down last month.

[nookandcrannycar]

The 2013, I walked in with a prefilled check for the amount I wanted to pay.
I told them I only brought one.

:thumbsup: I did this with my GTI except I brought a bunch of blank (re payee)
$1,000.00 money orders and one blank check for the last little bit. I also had the benefit of dealers doing price wars in the L.A. Times, but I still got an even lower price.

[nookandcrannycar]

:thumbsup: I did this with my GTI except I brought a bunch of blank (re payee)
$1,000.00 money orders and one blank check for the last little bit. I also had the benefit of dealers doing price wars in the L.A. Times, but I still got an even lower price.

Actually, I can't remember if (for the rest other than the money orders) if I paid with paper currency or wrote a check. There are two things everyone seems to be saying in one way or another -- 1. Demonstrate seriousness and 2. Be very willing to walk away. Re everything beyond that -- listen to Absolutely Red 12 :biggrin:. My Yaris purchase was the only vehicle purchase where I didn't feel I had the upper hand, and I didn't like that. The dealership knew that they had one of only five 5-speeds in the northeast...they knew I was a far away out of state buyer (those two things I couldn't do anything about)....but my worry that the car would get sold out from under me was probably too apparent (I will never make that mistake again). One reason I don't want to wait until my Yaris needs an immediate repair (when I get to around 400k miles) is that I want that ability to walk away that I've always had in the past. I may end up buying out of state again if I want the All Weather Package (last time I checked Gulf States Toyota (the distributor) wasn't allowing that option in Texas), but I'll make sure that my current Yaris is still in good enough condition to be able to walk out without any qualms.

[jambo101]

As i may buy a car every 5 years or so theres no way i can match the knowledge, wiles or cunning a dealer can bring to bare as he does this routine several times every day.
Best i can do on a new car is know the ball park price for the car i'm interested in with the options i want, if he comes up with the price i have in mind we will probably do business.
http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/nailing-down-the-best-deal-when-buying-a-car.html
Buying a used car is a total coin toss as to whether or not you'll get your monies worth.

[Septembersrain]

I wear jeans and a Motorhead t-shirt when I buy a car. If they judge me, they dont need to deal with me.
I'm a 56 year old ex-rocker with hair past my shoulders!!
Should have seen the faces when I walked in the door, sat in my future GTR, and told them I wanted to drive it off the floor!! Ironically, I had to deal with the sales manager, and negotiating price on a GTR, is unheard of.

I tell them, I want to buy a car, and spend no more than 45 minutes in that showroom.


The best negotiating tactic, is walking out the door. Yaris sales were down last month.

Yeah but they always downplay a woman, No matter what.
So for me, I like to give the appearance of someone who takes no BS.

It doesn't help that I look like a teenager at 28 either. =P

Good luck OP! Hope everything works out like you want it to!

[Aetre]

Thanks! I also might bringing a guy friend along. I'm worried, as a woman, they'll think I don't know anything about cars and try to take advantage.

My wife had some *bad* experiences with car dealers pulling stuff on her. She spoke with management at two different dealerships because of it. One manager scoffed and tried to lecture her about financing; she left that place and never came back. The other manager immediately apologized and took over the sales process, and made sure she got a fair price without being insulted.

Though I think the most hilarious one was the dealership where she asked to test-drive a stick-shift, and four or five salesmen gathered around to see the spectacle that was a woman who wanted to drive stick, say how awesome they thought that was, and started talking engines and torque and such. She said it was as if the minute she said, "stick," she suddenly became "one of the guys."

[bronsin]

What is this crap? :iono:

[nookandcrannycar]

What is this crap? :iono:

The piles of SPAM (very irritating, but only on other threads), or member's opinions on this thread :biggrin:.?

[Septembersrain]

I'd rather have a thread full of useful suggestions and opinions than someone selling some crap I've never heard of (Or ever want to hear of again). =D

and yeah, Being a female who drives automatic.. I always have to watch the sales/finance people.
I have to read all the fine print and usually I have to walk away at least twice to get a good deal.
The people at the dealership are so uncouth on how they think women are inferior and easily to take advantage of. =/

[nookandcrannycar]

I'd rather have a thread full of useful suggestions and opinions than someone selling some crap I've never heard of (Or ever want to hear of again). =D

and yeah, Being a female who drives automatic.. I always have to watch the sales/finance people.
I have to read all the fine print and usually I have to walk away at least twice to get a good deal.
The people at the dealership are so uncouth on how they think women are inferior and easily to take advantage of. =/

I was teasing bronsin, that's why I included the big grin. I think he was talking about the SPAM, but he doesn't come out and actually say so and he put that message on a thread (this one) that doesn't include any SPAM.

Re financing, it's usually better (if possible) to get pre approved by your bank or a credit union so that all you have to negotiate with the dealer is the price.

You are right there are a fair number of biases in the car business that should have been elimated long ago. I also think (and I don't mean to offend anyone's religion) that the law in Texas where a dealership has to be closed one of the two weekend days is kind of silly.

[Septembersrain]

the law in Texas where a dealership has to be closed one of the two weekend days is kind of silly.

I remembered having someone tell me that when I didn't know.
I was like "Oh joy, I work every day but Sunday."
Guess what is the only dealership open on Sunday?
Ancira... That dealership can jump in a lake along with their credit flinging tactics that ruin credit!
I like them about as much as I like Red McCombs.. Which isn't saying much.

[nookandcrannycar]

I remembered having someone tell me that when I didn't know.
I was like "Oh joy, I work every day but Sunday."
Guess what is the only dealership open on Sunday?
Ancira... That dealership can jump in a lake along with their credit flinging tactics that ruin credit!
I like them about as much as I like Red McCombs.. Which isn't saying much.

There are 2 Fred Haas Toyota dealerships here, both North of Beltway 8, one is on SH249 and the other on Interstate 45. One is closed only on Saturdays and the other is closed only on Sundays (at least that was the case the last time I checked).

[DebbyM46227]

Thanks everyone. I'm going in tomorrow to try an negotiate. We'll see what happens

Which dealer? Beck Toyota on US 31? I got my Yaris there, they didn't treat me any different because I'm a woman and I went alone :smile: Even when they took me back to the Finance Manager to try and add all the extras on, I only had to say "NO" once.

[screenprintr]

I have a car broker if you're interested. He can find what you want or need new or used. He can even get you a loan if you need it.

The Broker is in NJ, and mostly does NJ, NY, CT and PA. However he can do anywhere in the US.

I Always hear dealers saying, this or that doesn't make sense. However, they never explain what that means. Usually it means that it Doesn't Make Sense, because we Can Not Afford a certain car.

Instead of saying that, they just say, you want that car, but it doesn't make sense.

Makes sense to me!

What this Broker will do or any other Broker or Banker, they put you in a car you can afford, not what we want.

Guess this is why we're all in Yaris'

[Absolutely Red 12]

Re financing, it's usually better (if possible) to get pre approved by your bank or a credit union so that all you have to negotiate with the dealer is the price.





I'll respectfully disagree with that statement.
Dealer financing is always a better rate thank bank or credit union. (With tier I credit of course)
You need to make the deal on the car first, then bring ip financing, once you locked in the price.

I bought a Ford 10 years ago, stating I will get financing from the CU.
We made the deal, then deducted the rebates, and I told them I would be back with a CU check.
They shat their pants, no way was I leaving without the car!!
The manager bought me and the wife breakfast, (Galpin Ford has a restaurant), asked if they could run my credit.
He came back with 0.9% financing. I told them I would rather have the rebates, along with CU financing, as it would be less in the long run.

Guess what, I got the rebate along with the 0.9 financing!! Plus a Ford Credit loyalty rebate on top of that!!

DO NOT let the dealer run the "Four Square System" (search this) make one negotiation at a time.
If you have a trade, then bring it up after the deal, and financing have been dealt. You can always Carmax it for more.

[Absolutely Red 12]

I have a car broker if you're interested. He can find what you want or need new or used. He can even get you a loan if you need it.

The Broker is in NJ, and mostly does NJ, NY, CT and PA. However he can do anywhere in the US.

I Always hear dealers saying, this or that doesn't make sense. However, they never explain what that means. Usually it means that it Doesn't Make Sense, because we Can Not Afford a certain car.

Instead of saying that, they just say, you want that car, but it doesn't make sense.

Makes sense to me!

What this Broker will do or any other Broker or Banker, they put you in a car you can afford, not what we want.

Guess this is why we're all in Yaris'

Brokers get a fee, where it comes from is usually out of your pocket.
The time I would spend with a broker would be more than going into a dealer educated.

I'm into 2 Yaris', 1 Infiniti FX35, and 1 Nissan GTR!!

[nookandcrannycar]

Brokers get a fee, where it comes from is usually out of your pocket.
The time I would spend with a broker would be more than going into a dealer educated.

^^^^^ This x 10.

[nookandcrannycar]

DO NOT let the dealer run the "Four Square System" (search this) make one negotiation at a time.
If you have a trade, then bring it up after the deal, and financing have been dealt. You can always Carmax it for more.

^^^^^ This x 10...(at least SOME things haven't changed in the car business :biggrin:)

Your reference to 'dealer financing'...do you mean the dealer's outside inexpensive source or do you mean the actual dealer (or a financing source that the dealer owns) taking the paper?

When my dad was in car sales (20 + years ago = his last year -- new and used -- and he has passed ) dealer financing was more expensive for the customer. That was also before the Internet helped level the playing field for for customers able to arm themselves with information and required a sharper focus and attention to more varied profit streams on the dealer end.

Given the cost of a Yaris, do you think most people with Tier 1 credit would even bother to play the spread rather than pay cash? Playing the spread (rather than paying cash) has never appealed to me for 2 reasons -- 1. I'd rather be able to not be required to have collision and save that premium (and this makes more sense the cheaper the car is as the total of the spread = fewer dollars) and 2. There could be some screw up where a computer system malfunctions and the automatic payment doesn't get applied in a timely manner --- with cash, that situation wouldn't exist.

[Absolutely Red 12]

^^^^^ This x 10...(at least SOME things haven't changed in the car business :biggrin:)

Your reference to 'dealer financing'...do you mean the dealer's outside inexpensive source or do you mean the actual dealer (or a financing source that the dealer owns) taking the paper?



Sorry, Factory financing, always a great deal for tier 1!!

[daf62757]

Sorry, Factory financing, always a great deal for tier 1!!

When in the interest rate is below 3%, its great no matter who gives it to you.

[yougojay]

I have to say I wish msmith would have brought some closure to this thread. Did she get the 2012 or a Yaris at all? If she did, she should be posting here!!!
Sorry, peeves me, I like closure - :iono:
This is the first car I have ever financed, I got a 1.9% interest rate & the payments are under 100 bucks a month - I may pay it off after awhile, we'll see. They knocked $800 off of the sticker price, we're happy.

[NEexpat]

^lol, I saw the thread and was thinking the same thing, what ended up happening?














She bought a Fit! j/k

[Septembersrain]

>_> ANTICIPATION!

[yougojay]

DID SHE BUY A FORD FIESTA with the dual clutch transmission?? :eek: