2018 Yaris SE 5MT - T-Sport w/Valvematic!

[atomic_hoji]

Hello All!

I've loved my 2007 FJ Cruiser and had lots of good times with it, but we decided as the family has grown and everyone needs to be out and about to different places all the time that it's time to move on from the truck; seriously, the FJC rear doors are not small kid friendly.. :laugh: After some serious reading (lots here on Yaris World) we've decided to stay in the Toyota family and have a 2018 Yaris SE 5MT on order - coming soon (soon'ish? Not soon enough!). Apparently SEs aren't common and neither are 5MTs, so have to wait for a build.

As there's no picture yet, posted a placeholder (with appropriate details blanked) for the time being.. :smile:
-- Adam

EDIT (16-Oct-2017): It's here! Arrived last Saturday, been driving it this week - fun little ride. Engine pic to show the 1NZ before the swap; for reminiscing. When I paid for oil spray (we salt the heck out of our roads) I assumed it was underspray, not all-over-the-entire-body-of-the-car spray.

59010
59011

EDIT (27-May-2018): Picture of the final engine bay after the 2ZR-FAE install.
59589

--

Overall Swap Summary
This thread is a build as it progressed and has tidbits of information, discussion, etc.. through-out. I've included this brief summary as the short, to-the-point version noting what was needed to do the swap, but without discussion as to how it was completed.

Engine
A complete 2ZR-FAE from the wrecker including the main engine wiring harness, intake and exhaust manifolds, injectors and fuel system, ignition coils, all sensors, and ancillaries such as starter, A/C compressor, and alternator. The RH engine mounts - both the engine side bracket and the frame side mount - from a Scion xD were used as per the 2ZR-FE swaps already documented.

Cooling System
Radiator filler neck, and radiator and heater hoses from the Scion xD were used: inlet and outlet heater hoses, and upper radiator hose; lower radiator hose from the Yaris was retained, though is a tight fit on the 2ZR thermostat housing. The Yaris radiator was retained. A short piece of 30mm radiator hose is needed to connect the Scion xD filler next to the radiator. The hoses route much easier versus using the Yaris hoses and create space for the main engine harness to the new ECM location.

Exhaust
A 2012 Scion xD complete exhaust system was used, however it does not bolt up without modification. The main pipe is not long enough to reach the rear hanger on the Yaris so the pipe was cut and extended. The rear hanger bracket is in a different location and had to be cut and re-welded to match the Yaris location. The 2ZR-FAE exhaust manifold from the iM does not center in the Yaris exhaust hole so the manifold to main pipe connection is poor - a modified bolt-up method was used to clamp the two parts enough to stop exhaust leakage.

Intake
The Injen Cold Air Intake system for a Scion xD was installed, however, like the exhaust it requires modification. The shape of the 3rd gen. Yaris front-end means the CAI interferes with the LH headlight assembly and the bumper reinforcement. The CAI was cut and shortened to make a 'ram air intake' instead.

Ancillaries
Most of the ancillaries on the engine were retained and plugged in without modification. The A/C hoses from the Yaris were retained and matched the ports on the iM A/C compressor with a bit of finagling. Reinforced PVC hose was run between the vacuum pump and the brake booster as the 2ZR-FAE uses a separate vacuum pump; there is no OEM hose to use. Similarly, heater hose (to be replaced with PVC when canister is installed) was used to run the connection between the PCV port and the intake manifold.

Transmission
The C50 from the Yaris was used and generally unmodified - the Yaris back-up switch was removed and replaced with a iM style back-up switch to match the main engine wiring harness connector. Flywheel, clutch, and pressure plate from the 2ZR were already installed on the engine, so those were used in place of the Yaris setup.

Electrical & Wiring
The ECM was relocated from the RH side firewall to the LH side of the engine bay. Custom brackets were built to hold the Scion iM ECM in front of the battery location. The wiring was fished out of the Yaris harness and re-routed to the new location, and the iM engine harness is bent over the Valvematic box to mate at the new location. The engine to body connector was converted from 18-pin + 2 pin connector setup to match the Yaris' 26-pin connector. An additional connection to power the Valvematic system was also wired in. Modification to the fuel pump control system was made to run the fuel pump and an external cooling fan control setup was installed due to differences between the Yaris and iM ECM control methods.

[atomic_hoji]

And now the reason for the title and the post to the Performance section... :biggrin:

Why? Because http://www.subcompactculture.com/2016/02/subcompact-showcase-armstrong-racings.html

The addiction to build a 2ZR was then fuelled by the awesome threads found here on Yaris World. And now here I am... 2ZR-FAE from a 2016 Scion iM sitting in my garage awaiting it's new home.

I'm working through wiring diagrams and know I need to repin a couple of connectors so far, but overall it looks well do-able. Have a couple of small items on order, few parts to collect, and connectors to order, but given the quoted time for delivery is October.. lol.

[atomic_hoji]

Hmm.. YW newbe, follow-up post with 2ZR-FAE pic is MIA. Mod approval req'd? Not quite the same as SONTT.

BTW - If there's any former SONTT members out in YW say Hello!

-- Adam

edit: updated with eye candy; including that magic valvematic black box!

[Kalispel]

Grats on the pre-order. The Yaris SE is very nearly the perfect little runabout. :thumbsup:

[atomic_hoji]

Appreciate it, thanks! :thumbsup:

I haven't come across a 3rd gen. swap yet or one that uses the 2ZR-FAE. So, I'm going to use this thread to document what I run into as I go in hopes of helping others that want to do it as well.

The 2ZR-FE swap is well documented on YW - and big thanks to those who have put so much good information up for the rest of us! The article on Subcompact Culture about Tom Armstrong's 2nd gen. sedan and the related YouTube video on TheSmokingTire channel is how I caught the bug.. Lurking YW sealed the deal. :biggrin:

One of the elegant parts to the 2ZR-FE swap for the 2nd gen. is using the Scion xD harness and ECM as it is plug and play with the 2nd gen. Yaris. I don't have the 2nd gen. EWDs (if/when I subscribe to TIS again I'll have to remember to get them..) but I imagine a lot of the 3rd gen. wiring is the same or similar, save for additions such as TSS-C, etc.. so it would likely still work or maybe require modification - probably less than using a Corolla or iM; wait, why am I doing this the hard way..? lol However, the Scion xD isn't as common as a Corolla or iM, has no -FAE option, and won't have the updated features of the newest models. Unfortunately, sourcing from a Corolla or iM isn't quite as plug and play - very similar in many ways as fortunately Toyota is standard (lazy? :wink:) about wiring - but will open the option of Valvematic and the modern ECUs have the gadget support if you can get a hold of a new enough ECU. Working through and documenting the wiring differences will provide an alternative to get the 2ZR-F(A)E into our 3rd gen. Yaris'.

With rainy weather yesterday and today I've been doing a rundown on the ECM diagrams. I'm using a 2016 Scion iM 6MT engine, harness, and ECM. Because most of the engine related sensors etc.. are on the large, 135-pin connector and included direct in the engine harness, and I have the matched set I'm less worried about these; also, it's 135-pins and mildly intimidating! lol I did the rundown on the 60-pin connector for differences between the iM and the Yaris..

-- Adam


Updated (18-Nov-2017): keep wiring information for the swap in one post in the thread, clean up the post, and add some additional information.)
Updated (27-May-2018): modifications to wiring as installed with the engine running.
--

ECM Relocation
As the Scion iM has the ECM on the LH side of the engine bay, along where the main engine Junction Box (JB) is, we have to re-route the 60-pin engine to body connector from the Yaris location on the RH side of the firewall over to the LH side of the engine bay.

This is most easily done with the 1NZ engine, the cowl, etc.. is already removed so that the engine bay is most accessible. Drop the wiring loom and fish the wires for the 60-pin connector out all the way back to the LH side of the engine bay. Then tape and re-install the remaining wires back up under the cowl. I installed 1/2" wire loom over the ECM connector wires and ran the line down the firewall to the LH side of the brake booster, under the main engine JB, to the front of the battery tray, where I have the ECM installed. Here's a picture showing how I fished the wires out. The ECM with the connector is shown in the picture in post #01 of the overall installation.

59587

Modifications to ECM Connectors
The modern Toyota ECMs as used on both the Toyota Yaris and the Scion iM use two main connectors: a 135-pin ECM connector, called 'B38' in the iM EWD, is the main engine harness, which is on the engine and matches the iM ECM, so there's nothing to re-pin or worry about; and a 60-pin ECM connector, called 'A72' for Yaris or 'A31' for iM in respective EWDs, is the connection between the ECM and the engine room harness in the Yaris. There are 2 outputs on the 60-pin ECM connector that are 'dead-ended' due to differences between the iM and the Yaris.

Cooling Fan Control
45 - RFC - on the Scion iM outputs a variable signal from the ECM to a Cooling Fan ECU that controls the fan speed. The Yaris control, however, uses a simple relay system that provides grounds to terminals 07 - FANL - FAN NO.1 Relay, and 08 - FANH - FAN NO.2 Relay to select low or high fan speed. The Yaris connector has no wire for pin 45 of the 60-pin connector, so no wire was abandoned.

As I was not able to run a wire, I instead opted for an aftermarket fan controller. I used the Mishimoto Adjustable Fan Controller (MMFAN-CNTL-U18NPT); using NPT type sensor requires using an inline adapter versus the radiator probe - I used the Mishimoto Water Temperature Sensor Adapter - 30mm (MMWHS-30). Installation followed the instructions (ish). Since I pulled the fan control relays, I followed the install directions for drilling and screwing the controller and running the ground wire, however I instead used 12-16 AWG 1/4" male blade (aka: disconnect) terminals to create a jumper across the FAN NO. 1 relay (switch side) to power the fan, and from the FAN NO. 2 relay (switch side) to return the line to the fan controller. 12V ignition power was run to the FAN NO. 1 relay (coil side) via a 18-22 AWG 3/16" male blade terminal to provide the controller with power.

59583
59584
59585

Fuel Pump Control
21 - FPC - Similar to fan control, the Scion iM outputs a variable signal from the ECM to the Fuel Pump Control ECU that controls a variable speed fuel pump. The Yaris control is, again, a simple ground to enable a relay that provides power to the fuel pump once the engine is seen to be cranking. The Yaris connector does have a corresponding pin 21 for FPC, which using the modification below we will disconnect from the main engine JB connector and 'dead end' the wire with heat shrink; I've de-pinned the connector and kept the wire terminal intact to allow reversal if need be.

This is posted on page 3 of this thread - post #48 - but I've moved it in here for documentation purposes.

WARNING - this solution bypasses ECM control of the fuel pump! The factory ECM is designed to shut off the fuel pump in the event of an accident. If you do not, or are unable to, turn the ignition off in the event of an accident there is an increased risk of injury or death due to fuel system fire.

Intense, but seriously, it bypasses a safety feature - always be careful, and understand what you've changed and how it impacts the vehicle.. :thumbsup:

To jumper the fuel pump to the IGN signal remove the upper half of the main engine JB, disconnect connector 1E from the bottom side of the integrated relay assembly (skinny white rectangle), and pop out pin-11 (violet). Blank the pin as it will still have a live signal from the ECM with heat shrink and/or electrical tape. From a spare harness, I grabbed a matching terminal with a length of wire, inserted the new terminal into pin-11, and ran the loose end to a body ground connection. Alternatively you can cut the violet wire leaving a pigtail and solder/crimp to existing terminal, then run to body ground. What this does is put a permanent ground on the C/OPN relay coil which, since the relay coil is only provided power when the IGN relay is energized (key to ON), it won't have power when the car is off but once the key hits ON it will energize and start the fuel pump.

Note: I have the common relay block removed - you don't need to remove it, just unplug the connector from the bottom side once you're into the main engine JB and make your modifications.

59581

--

Modification of Engine to Body Connectors
The connector(s) between the main engine harness and the body harness, 18-pin 'BA2' and 2-pin 'BA3' on iM and 26-pin 'CA3' on Yaris in the respective EWDs, supply power and signals from elsewhere in the vehicle to items on the engine. Left is the BA2 connector we are going from, the right is the CA3 connector we're switching to.

59586

Below is the re-map that I used to map wires from BA2 into an OEM 26-pin female connector (p/n: 90980-12771) to mate with the Yaris' CA3 male connector:
(shown as iM BA2 PIN# [terminal size] --> Yaris CA3 PIN# [terminal size])

01 [1.5] --> 12 [0.64II]
02 [1.5] --> 20 [0.64II]
03 [1.5] --> 14 [1.5]
04 [1.5] --> 01 [1.5]
05 [1.5] --> 01 [1.5]
06 [1.5] --> 15 [1.5]
07 [1.5] --> blank
08 [n/a on ALL]
09 [0.64II] --> 'CA4' 04 - provide shielding for O2 sensor
10 [0.64II] --> 25 [0.64II]
11 [0.64II] --> 25 [0.64II]
12 [1.5] --> 19 [0.64II]
13 [n/a on MT]
14 [0.64II] --> 22 [0.64II]
15 [0.64II] --> 08 [0.64II]
16 [0.64II] --> 24 [0.64II]
17 [0.64II] --> 02 [0.64II]
18 [1.5] --> 15 [1.5]

and BA3 --> CA3
01 [1.5] --> 26 [1.5]
02 [1.5] --> new connector

There are a few differences to note. First, there are a few wires that need to be re-terminated to smaller size wire terminals - the BA2 connector uses more of the larger, 1.5 size terminals. You can order the correct sized open barrel terminals and re-terminate the wire or find a spare harness at a wrecker, cut and de-pin a connector to create 'pigtails' to use. I bought some open barrel terminals, but found the small sizes are so delicate that I was mangling more than I had success with. Ultimately I found a wrecker about an hour drive away, chopped and pulled a large section of engine bay wire harness from a 2007 Toyota Yaris hatchback, paid my cash, and have a number of spare OEM connectors and wire pigtails now.

Second, there are some differences in how wires are used on the iM engine harness versus supply from the Yaris side body harness. These are as follows:

The Yaris uses 1 power supply wire that is shared by both the injectors and the ignition coils, where-as the iM has separate supply wires, BA2-04 and -05 respectively. I have 'Y' or 'T' connected these two wires into one to map to CA3-01. As both use the same resistance injectors and ignition coils I'm making the leap of faith that the supply will be sufficient for both on the iM engine harness.

The MAF B+ line is different between the two harnesses - the Yaris runs direct from the main engine JB to the MAF, where-as the iM expects a power line on the BA2 connector.
BA2-06 is Y/T connected with BA2-18 to map to CA3-15 to receive power.

BA2-07 is a ground to the engine block, however CA3 uses fewer ground connections, to the pin is folded back into the wire loom and heat shrinked.

BA2-09 is for the canister module ground, however the Yaris uses a local ground connection on the canister module, so it isn't needed for the same purpose. As for BA2-07 the Yaris needs fewer grounds on CA3, however the connector CA4 is the connector from the engine harness to the body harness for the O2 sensor, which needs a shielding wire (ground), so I've instead run this to CA4-04 for this purpose.

As for injectors and ignition above, the Yaris has only a single supply for the back-up switch and Generator IG lines, where-as the iM uses separate wires. These are similarly Y/T connected to map to CA3-25.

A new 30A fused wire from the battery was run for the Valvematic power supply (BA3-02) using a new, 2-pin male + female connector combo. I picked up a 5 pack of aftermarket connectors that are a match for the OEM cooling fan power connector through an online order. The terminals are a more manageable size than the connectors, so it was pretty straight forward to crimp the wires and install the sealed terminals into the new connector.

Transmission Back-up Switch
A simple change that was made was to remove the Yaris back-up switch which uses a different connector and install a iM style back-up switch in place. The threads are the same, so it is literally a matter of removing the old and installing the new. When the transmission is mated to the 2ZR the connector is routed right into place where the new switch sits.

59588

[deng]

I love how much research your putting in to your swap. Only 3 posts, no questions, or bs, straight to the point.

Respect.

[atomic_hoji]

Thanks for the props, deng. :thumbup:

Plan is to be have these differences documented and addressed ahead of time so when I'm ready to swap it goes in smooth - don't want an on-going, troubleshooting nightmare with my reliable set of wheels. Hell, if I get it all correct and it goes in smooth maybe it'll encourage others to follow suit with the -FAE. :laugh:

With more rain today interfering with my wood shed building plan I decided to rundown the 135-pin ECM connector for a bit this afternoon instead - garage does smell great with the stacked spruce lumber.. lol

Found P/N: 82121-12U30 is for the 2016 Scion iM MT if you need to buy a new, complete harness ($$$). The same part number also applies for the 2017 Corolla iM MT. So if you're searching the wreckers either year will work, but be aware of (or prepared to repair) wiring harness butchering! Also, if you have a newer model Yaris the 2017 ECM will support the TSS-C functions; I will give TSS-C up for this swap using the 2016 ECM.

Never-the-less, the important part: for the 135-pin ECM connector, which is integrated into the engine harness, I tracked all wires by colour and connector and everything from the ECM pinned out on the 135-pin connector is on the engine harness proper (sensors, MAF, cam control, etc..) or goes to the vehicle via the 2 interface connectors (18-pin + 2-pin), respectively. Unfortunately, my meter leads are too fat to fit in the 135-pin connector so I wasn't able to continuity test each wire to verify, but all the colours jived at the appropriate connectors.

Still working to map those 2 connectors to the respective connector on the Yaris, but at a glance it should be do-able.

Quick note for my case: my engine harness was 95% complete from the wrecker - I got pretty lucky that they disconnected most connectors instead of butchering the wiring. Unfortunately, they did chop the wires right at the harness that run to the O2 sensor. On the iM this is a straight wire run, however on the Yaris the wiring to the O2 sensor goes via a connector at the engine room JB. I'll have to do a repair and pin them into the Yaris connector to pick-up the Yaris' O2 sensor. Also had a good bit of news about my engine pull via the CarProof report. Seems the car was at the dealership for service at 101 kms, then 6 weeks later was written off in a rear-end accident. I figure, assuming average driving, there can't be more than 2000 kms on it. Feel bad about the poor luck of the person who purchased it, but am happy to score a seriously low mileage unit! :biggrin:

-- Adam

[atomic_hoji]

Been busy on a plant equipment shutdown crew, then started a new job a couple weeks ago, but as noted above new Yaris arrived and bits ordered have been showing up over the past few weeks so thought I'd put in a quick update.

Parts collection is on-going, but have the below shopping list complete:

2ZR-FAE motor w/manifolds; flywheel, clutch & pressure plate; throttle body; water pump; alternator; and starter included.
A/C compressor
ECM and complete engine wire harness (need O2 repair)
Injen CAI w/MAF sensor


Still need to find:

Axle-back exhaust for 2.25" exhaust
Mid-pipe (direct fit catalytic w/resonator)
Passenger side engine mount (frame & engine) w/hardware
Wiring terminals and connectors


Started opening packages and found that my spangly new Toyota connectors so I can change the Scion iM connector to mate do not come with terminals :confused: Literally just the plastic housing - all the aftermarket connectors I've bought for wiring lights or other ancillaries have always come with terminals and grommets (if used)! If anyone out there has a good source for terminals I'd appreciate a heads up! :help:

With cold weather settling in I have some outdoor projects to complete before we get winter settling in. But hoping with a few more internet purchases I'll soon have her ready to roll into the garage to start the swap!

-- Adam

[tmontague]

Awesome thread. Fwiw I've used a reman'd eBay a/c compressor and for the past 20k I'm I've put on it since the swap it has given me no issues.

Good luck with the wiring, an fae would be great

[Kalispel]

:thumbsup:

[CrankyOldMan]

Wow, that's an awesome score on your engine! My 2ZR-FE only had 3700 miles on it before the vehicle was rolled. It sat in the warehouse for almost 7 years as well, but fired right up and runs like a champ all day long!

Which terminals do you need? I've got a few bins of spaghetti wire harness mess that could be used for pigtails if I have the right ones. You'd be hard pressed to find the actual terminals in loose/bulk packaging and the OEM crimp tool probably costs $500 or more. Toyota isn't nearly as open with their connector sourcing as some of the USDM companies are, resulting in high costs or outright zero availability of them.

[atomic_hoji]

Hey, thanks for the support guys. :thumbsup:

Winter decided to show-up with gusto last night.. Fortunately, I picked up a set of 172/65R15 Michelin X-Ice XI3s (which feel like fat little bicycle tires, I laughed when I got home from work and saw they had been delivered. Honestly, being used to running 33"+ tires on my trucks they're hilarious, but oh so much easier on the back to install! :laugh:). Unfortunately, they weren't actually on the car this morning when they'd have been handy, so that was this evenings task.

But anywho, with respect to the 2ZR..

I was able to get a line on a used A/C compressor from another 2ZR vehicle; Corolla or Matrix I think the guy said. It fits, has a 6-rib pulley, and sounds like tmontague's experience shows good luck, so I'll run with it.. :thumbsup:

Had a disappointing follow-up email about the Magnaflow midpipe though. Seems there's no ETA from Magnaflow for stock, so the order is on hold. Means back to looking for an exhaust setup. Debating waiting until Black Friday sales in a couple of weeks and having something shipped to Port Huron, then make a trip down.

Appreciate the heads up Cranky re: wiring. I found that Ballenger Motorsports carries some of the Sumitomo line of wire terminals that have equivalent Toyota part numbers. I assume they crimp on normally?! To document for those running into wiring in future, I found the following using the EWDs for each vehicle and the Toyota Wire Harness Repair Manual.

. I need to re-pin the main connector between the engine harness and the body (18-pin BA2 and 2-pin BA3 from the 2016 Scion iM MT wire harness, and 26-pin CA3 on the 2018 Yaris harness).
[BA2: 90980-12745]
Toyota: 82998-24290 --> Sumitomo TS F025 (08)
Toyota: 82998-24350 --> Sumitomo TS F060 (10)
[BA3: 90980-10916]
Toyota: 82998-12380 --> Sumitomo TS F187 (02)
** have to map to Sumitomo TS F060 as connector CA3 doesn't use the larger pins.

[CA3: 90980-12771]
Toyota: 82998-24290 --> Sumitomo TS F025 (22)
Toyota: 82998-24350 --> Sumitomo TS F060 (04)
** -12771 isn't listed in the version of the repair manual I have, but I matched the sizes found on BA2; number of pins overall and of each type differs from BA2.

. Need to run a line for the cooling fan CPU from JB to CPU, and power from CPU to fan.
[A24: 90980-10841]
Toyota: ???
[z1: 90980-10928]
Toyota: ???

. Need to repair 4 wires at harness to CA4 for exhaust O2 sensor.
[CA4: 90980–12639]
Toyota: 82998-24290 --> Sumitomo TS F025 (16)
Toyota: 82998-12340 --> Sumitomo TS F090 (04)

I guess that's the long version... :biggrin: Short answer is some wires with female terminals from an engine to body connector and what seem to be larger ones to populate the cooling fan connectors; haven't found the type of terminal yet. I'll get pictures when I'm in the garage this weekend and post them up and see if I can add a picture/description for each of the terminal types.

Take care.
-- Adam

[atomic_hoji]

Wow, that's an awesome score on your engine! My 2ZR-FE only had 3700 miles on it before the vehicle was rolled. It sat in the warehouse for almost 7 years as well, but fired right up and runs like a champ all day long!

...



Man, you made a pretty good score there as well! Good to know there's few to no worries about time sitting on a shelf at the wreckers :w00t:

Ya, I got pretty lucky, especially that they had all the matching parts, excepting the A/C compressor. I just happened to find it via car-part.com when looking around for a low mileage 2ZR-FE and debating the swap; decided to commit to the swap with -FAE and jumped on it! Once I picked it up and had the VIN I was able to get the CarProof report so I'd have something to verify / estimate the mileage, as if I recall the mileage was not listed in the ad, but they said it was very low. We'll see if my luck holds on with the rest of the project.. :wink:

-- Adam

[atomic_hoji]

For the main engine wiring harness connector this is what I'm trying to change. I should note that, like a lot of things I'm running into, I'm doing this to make the swap as elegant a solution as possible; i.e. plug 'n play as much as is reasonable. If you are so inclined you could always cut the 1NZ harness and retrieve 'pigtails' with the needed terminals - I just want to pull the 1NZ complete and unmodified, and leave an unmolested body harness; I don't intend to swap back to the 1NZ, but you never know what may come up.

The below pictures demonstrate the conversion that needs to happen and the terminals involved. LHS is the female BA2 connector on my 2ZR harness, RHS is the female CA3 to match the Yaris. I popped one of the larger terminals, but my camera just can't take a picture that close up. The 2 types of terminals are shown in the Wire Harness Repair Manual diagrams.

[CrankyOldMan]

The smaller terminals can be removed with a paperclip or sewing needle. Make sure the retention lock is disengaged, poke the needle into the smile-shaped hole, gently pry up/down while pulling on the wire. Shouldn't take any real force to extract them.

What wires/signals don't match up, if any?

[atomic_hoji]

^ Good tip, thanks Cranky! :thumbsup:

I did buy a $10 set of connector tools - they so far work 'so-so' :rolleyes: Will try your technique as well.

So, after finally mapping everything out, it's actually not as terrible as I thought it might be; guess it makes sense that if on one vehicle you need an 18awg wire, it'll likely be the same size wire for the same function on the other vehicle.. :laugh:

I updated post #4 with the complete map (just pin numbers and terminal sizes; could add functions if there's interest, but got really busy and cluttered when I started putting it in..) The ones that don't match are:
(pin# [terminal size] --> pin# [terminal size] for function)

01 [1.5] --> 12 [0.64II] for Combo. Meter CHG- -> Generator L
02 [1.5] --> 20 [0.64II] for 5A ICS/ALT-S Fuse -> Generator S
07 [1.5] --> 22 [0.64II] for Cruise ECC; DLC3 SG -> Ground
12 [1.5] --> 19 [0.64II] for Brake Actuator EXI3 -> Back-Up Light Sw.

pin 07 --> pin 22 could actually work if I tie pin 07 & pin 14 together and use the pin 14 terminal to match the corresponding size on the male (Yaris) side.

And I made an executive decision to leave the 2-pin connector stuff separate and just completely re-connector it, instead of dorking around trying to find the associated 4.8 size terminals - this also gives me a 1.5 size location to run the MAF B+ line, which is different between the two vehicles.

I keep trying to avoid modification of the existing harness as much as possible, but it is creating more of a chore; there's something to be said for just getting an aftermarket connector with all the associated parts and just creating a new connection instead of mucking about. :tongue:

[atomic_hoji]

Quick update: parts collections is slower than I'd hoped due to unavailability of the exhaust, as well as delays on the order for engine mounts and other misc. parts. Good news is both orders should be shipped next week. Also had an offer from a wheeling buddy to pillage the wiring harness from a parked 4Runner to see if I can find the connectors and terminals I need; I'll check into that this weekend.

With respect to the swap, I have a plan. :biggrin:

Time is a bit of a premium at the moment since I'm currently on the first 6 month portion of training for my new job and have regular progress tests I have to study for. BUT, we break for the Christmas holidays, so I will have a 10 day stretch over the weekend before Christmas until New Years off. I figure that should give me enough time to finish outdoor clean-up before snow sets in, get the garage clear, and collect the remaining parts. Then I'll roll the Yaris into the garage for the break, and roll her out in 2018 a new machine. :cool:

Once into the teardown and install I can get some pictures and update the thread with some (hopefully) useful solutions. The wait is killing me.. lol

-- Adam

[atomic_hoji]

Hope everyone had a great holiday and happy new year! :thumbup:

Long time since last update, but progress, slowly but surely, 'ish - mostly busy. Had a good holiday, lots of visits, had friends we don't see stay extra time from the New Year's weekend as well. Also had another progress test at work for training, so that took some important time; final course this month, then the big exam in February.

Got the 1NZ disconnected and pulled successfully. Things I'd do differently (i) get a cheap digital camera to document! The 2ZR swap is already documented well in other threads, but for my own use it'd be handy. I do have a cell phone camera, but between filthy hands and just forgetting about it as I got busy I didn't grab enough (many at all) pictures.. (ii) follow the goddamn instructions! :laugh: I hadn't removed the front bumper, rad, etc.. assembly as I figured using an overheard 1 ton hoist I could pop it up and out.. maybe could have, but I made a whoops with my rigging and found the hard way there's not much space in the engine bay - found I had it all nicely setup, but engine mount was caught up, when it came free the transmission side dropped and the whole thing jump and banged around; nothing appears damaged on the Yaris, and on me it was mostly my pride and underoos - scrape and bruise will heal. Did scare the bejesus out of myself though..

Never-the-less, picture proof of progress: a naked engine bay and the clean looking little 1NZ with C50 on the floor.

-- Adam

[atomic_hoji]

^^^ is how she's been for a bit over a week now. When I went out 23/24-Dec the garage was a balmy 8 C, with the cold snap lately it's about 2 C and is a bit miserable on the fingers and toes being out there. However, even in light of the chill, I've started into the wiring changes today, separating the line to the ECU from the body so it can be relocated to the main JB/battery area.

Good news, it does work! :thumbsup:

Pretty straight forward, but for someone following as reference I did the following: dropped the wiring plastic clips to get it free. Then as I removed the tape from the wire bunch gently separated the wires for the ECU connector from the rest of the body harness and reapplied tape as I went to avoid it becoming a loose mess. Only tools were a sharp knife, pliers for the clips, and electrical tape. Obvious note: be careful what you cut! :tongue:

The main body wiring will get the plastic clips reattached and put back into it's stock position up under the metal lip you can see in the pictures.

I was able to run the ECU wires all the way back to where they come out of the hard plastic unit by the brake booster. This should give enough to run the connector to the ECU if I mount it at the main JB/relay box. The ECU wiring will get bunched and a few pieces of tape and then some plastic wiring loom over it for protection in the engine bay. If I do need to run it back to the stock location I will just run it alongside and retape it to the main body wire bunch.

-- Adam

[atomic_hoji]

On a side note, with the holidays done, I needed wheels to get back to work last week.

Upside: I get to play with my FJ Cruiser again for one more winter.

Downside: I had to dig her out of over a foot of snow and change those mud terrain tires out for winter tires in -24 C weather. They dug through the snowbank nicely to get unburied, but are awful on packed snow / plowed roads. :laugh:

-- Adam

[tmontague]

Great to see the progress, are you all set for the wiring or are there still unknowns about that?

Id love to source a corolla ecu and slowly build up a proper harness so I could just do a plug and play with an fae engine and take advantage of the valve lift.

I can't have my car down for more than a day or two sonc sits my dd. If you're able to document the electrical and it works with everything else in the Yaris then this opens many doors for other YW members down the road for a somewhat straight forward swap

[atomic_hoji]

Hey, thanks for the support man. :biggrin:

Ya, I'm very lucky that I've been able to keep my truck in the meantime. I know for most people if it's a DD they need a weekend project, not multiple weeks of fuddling about.

I'm pretty confident about all of the wiring I need to take care of, but won't call it 100% until I get it completed (and proven to work!). I found while disconnecting the Yaris wiring that I had a mis-understanding of a couple of things - at least 1 thing will make life easier (woo!), the others not so much easier or harder, just a difference between what I expected and what's there. As I get the wiring steps done I'll get more pictures in and do a final write-up for others to follow once I've proven it works.

Without looking at the xD wiring, I would imagine with having the xD 2ZR-FE harness you could probably put that on a 2ZR-FAE and run the few wires for the VALVMATIC control and power; would have to confirm ECM mapping and finding wire terminals to match the ECM connector - might be tough if they aren't the same as other types used on the wire harness. Of course, I say that, but have still yet to open the connector to do the wire swap to give me my cooling fan ECU output.. lol

-- Adam

[atomic_hoji]

Quick update: the cake is a lie; for now.

Short version: Yaris is in the same sad state sitting on jackstands as it was a few weeks ago, and is lowest on priority list for now until life is back in order.

The long, personal blogosphere version is that after such a good holiday, tides turned and it's been a bit of a rough go the past few weeks. Got news my Mum has cancer, she's now started chemo. Week later I got sick with what I thought was a dose of influenza; turned into pneumonia - been face down the past 2 weeks. Work is accommodating missed test, but exams are a different group, so bit anxious about being behind the 8 ball by 2 weeks..

Did find there's a semi-local U-Pull yard - wife drove past en route to a market with a friend - and from their website, they have a 2nd gen. Yaris in the yard. Once I'm up and about I'm going to go see what I can pull more harness and wiring; give me some spare bits and pre-crimped wires to play with.

-- Adam

[Jeanseb29]

Hi Adam, hope everything is going to get better for you and your mom

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk

[Jeanseb29]

It's a pleasure reading your posts and seeing how your car is progressing but take your time for taking care of yourself and your family. We will be here when you come back :)

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk

[atomic_hoji]

Appreciate the kind words, thank you! :biggrin:

We're getting there.. slowly but surely. lol Looking forward to early March when the chaos is (should be) done and we're closer to status quo.

-- Adam

[hichamaziz]

Appreciate it, thanks

[atomic_hoji]

Ok, try #2 to update.. last Tuesday I had a day off before going back to my shift crew, so I thought I'd get an update posted. Then low and behold while I was logged into YW reviewing new posts I got a call from the hospital saying my Mum was in ICU and that if we can get up to the hospital we should do so asap; turned into a helluva week.. :eek: Mum's in stable condition, and the calm has finally returned again; for now anyway.

I'm not dead (not for lack of trying apparently.. lol) or run away from YW; the swap is not abandoned 'nor forgotten; and I haven't cut the 2ZR-FAE loose and put the 1NZ-FE back in. I also haven't copied the photos over from my phone, lol, so I'll have to update the post when I'm off next, but here's the skinny..

Progress:

2ZR-FAE fits in a 3rd gen. Yaris using Scion xD RH engine mount and Yaris dogbone and LH transmission mounts; it's tight.. props to those who personhandled (zing Mr. Prime Minister, lol) the engine & transmission combo in solo!

Driveshafts are installed so car is finally sitting on the ground again - I've gotten used to it on jack stands, it's so low now! Caused myself extra work when I spun the axle nut off as I mangled the threads. Bought a rethread die and cleaned it up, worked a treat. :thumbsup:

O2 wire repair done; harness plug conversion nearly swapped - had to borrow a soldering iron and stuff to solder. I found the prefab solder and shrink conectors were a mess to deal with - heat shrink got a pinhole when solder melted and dripped. Doing the rest of the wires the old fashioned way with solder and heat shrink tube.

Pulled a 2nd gen. Yaris harness to get donor wires from so I can do a clean install (see below), but ...


Issues I have discovered:

In post #21 above I mentioned I misunderstood something. Ya, it's an oversight that I'm really embarassed about. I was so careful about all the wiring, then I neglected to pay attention to ECU pin sizes, so my idea of moving a FANH or FANL wire to RFC for an elegant solution was a no go. Unfortunately Toyota doesn't leave any unused wires for the AT on the MT harness, so no spare tiny pin wire to use either. Then I pulled a 2007 harness at a U-Pull and found the ECU difference between generations; figures, can't be bothered to change the rest of the car, but they go an update the connectors!

2nd gen. Yaris ECU connectors are very different.. it uses 2 sizes of pins: large and small. 3rd gen. Yaris ECU and Scion iM ECU also use 2 sizes of pins: small and tiny. Two major things come out of this:

I have no wire to steal to run my RFC (cooling fan) wire, and
Based on this 2007 harness and the pictures of up to 2011 ECUs I found in a search (searching wire harness numbers found a ton of varying numbers over 2006 to 2011, so not as useful as I'd hoped..) the 2ZR-FAE swap as I'm doing it with the Scion iM ECU will not work on 2nd gen. Yaris'. :cry: Or rather, will not plug in as simply - you would need to find a modern 60-pin connector from a donor harness and chop it, then chop your ECU connector, remap, and solder all the active wires. I'd need a 2nd gen. set of EWDs to have a better idea. Here's hoping I'm wrong..

Yaris heater hoses are useable, but are a miserable mess; need to order Scion xD hoses.
Need custom hose for the vacuum piping between vacuum switch and hard pipe/tube on the firewall.
2ZR-FAE uses an external, auxiliary vacuum pump! Crazy. Apparently an artifact of VALVEMATIC is that it can't use intake manifold for brake booster, so it has a vacuum pump on the rear side driven by the exhaust camshaft. Needs a short, custom tube between it and the brake booster.


So that's where it's at. Some reassembly in progress, which once the hoses and such are connected I'll fire the rad. support, rad., etc.. on and fill with fluids.

Looking towards an external, aftermarket cooling fan control setup. They exist and are pretty straight forward from what I've found in a quick search. Expect that the missing RFC line won't cause a problem since it's a variable resistance output only, but we'll see if it causes a CEL.

-- Adam

edit: added the evidence it's actually installed! :biggrin:
59411
59412

and the difference between 2007 (left, bottom) and 2018 (right, top) ECU (body side) connectors:
59413

[stidnam]

I've been watching your thread pretty closely eagerly awaiting updates. Sorry to hear about your personal situation. Hope things work out ok!

It sounds like a source for ECU pins/pigtails is your biggest problem at this point? Any chance of getting to a pick a part style wrecker to grab a few wires. Co-incidentally, I was at a wrecker last weekend here in Aus and they had an equivalent of your Scion IM in the yard :S

I've previously used this guy to source connectors and terminals in the past. Can highly recommend! - https://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Elec__Products/Connectors/connectors.html

FYI - you may also need to invest in a decent crimper if you don't already have one!

Personally, I think using the factory Toyota fan controller would be the cleanest solution. In saying that, I'd also agree with you re the CEL - That fan controller isn't connected to the CAN bus, and I wouldn't think the ECU would expect any feedback on FAN operation. Do you know what type of signal the RFC pin outputs? I thought it might be square wave, but perhaps it's a varying voltage?

On a separate point, I note you only used that RH engine mount and retained the other Yaris mounts. I was under the impression that this would result in miss-alignment of the motor (if only by a smidge). Have you found this to be the case? I'm currently hunting for the appropriate scion xd brackets, but they are proving very difficult to obtain from US based wreckers :(.

[tmontague]

hope you mom is doing better, sorry to hear about the setbacks but that's how it sometimes goes with projects cars. In this case you are also taking on a new project seeing as a 2018 has never been swapped with a 2zr and an FAE has also never been swapped.

After reading about your challenges I can see why the FE is typically the go to, seems to be a much easier plug and play since that is what the Scion xD uses

[ArmstrongRacing]

I've been so impressed by this thread I haven't even known how or what to contribute...

Im sorry to hear about you mom, keep your head up buddy.

Let me know if I can be of any assistance.

[atomic_hoji]

I really appreciate the kind words, thanks guys! Was a bit of a rough time a couple weeks ago, but things are heading in the positive direction so far. :thumbsup:

Was on my first set of night shifts in several months over the weekend, so no further progress, but off work the next couple days so I'm aiming to wrap up the last of the wiring (less the fan control) and re-assemble, fill fluids, etc.. that I can. Got my phone hooked up and downloaded the pictures to the computers, so I added the pics of the 2ZR in the engine bay and the clearance on each side as well. I have a bunch of odd and sod pictures of wiring bits, etc.. - trying to get pictures of things I've changed. Lots to go back through and update through the thread to ensure it's clear; sounds like a 'once-its-running' task.. :biggrin:


...
It sounds like a source for ECU pins/pigtails is your biggest problem at this point? Any chance of getting to a pick a part style wrecker to grab a few wires. Co-incidentally, I was at a wrecker last weekend here in Aus and they had an equivalent of your Scion IM in the yard :S

I've previously used this guy to source connectors and terminals in the past. Can highly recommend! - https://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Elec__Products/Connectors/connectors.html

Personally, I think using the factory Toyota fan controller would be the cleanest solution. In saying that, I'd also agree with you re the CEL - That fan controller isn't connected to the CAN bus, and I wouldn't think the ECU would expect any feedback on FAN operation. Do you know what type of signal the RFC pin outputs? I thought it might be square wave, but perhaps it's a varying voltage?

On a separate point, I note you only used that RH engine mount and retained the other Yaris mounts. I was under the impression that this would result in miss-alignment of the motor (if only by a smidge). Have you found this to be the case? I'm currently hunting for the appropriate scion xd brackets, but they are proving very difficult to obtain from US based wreckers :(.

With respect to the ECU pins, yes and no. Yes, because the RFC line for 2ZR fan control isn't going to work out the way I had imagined; if I'd looked closer in the first place I'd have maybe figured that out, but live and learn, lol. I say no because the ECU isn't really a problem in general as (less the fan control) connector-wise it is literally plug-n-play (does require ECU relocation). The conversion the main engine harness to body harness connectors - 18-pin 'BA2' and 2-pin 'BA3' on iM to 26-pin 'CA3' on Yaris - has been a bit of a pain; although I have the 'knack' for de-pinning now, so that part has become easy enough, lol. I have been fussing about with how to make that conversion as neat as possible. Of course, the real test will be plugging it in and nothing popping (best case a fuse..) and/or catching fire.. :laugh: I've bookmarked the Eastern Beaver site, thanks! I used Rakuten Market (hi-1000) for the terminals I ordered, but always good to have many sources. Not many wreckers up in my area (pick-n-pull or not) have new enough Toyotas, but I'll keep an eye and plan the conversion to the factory fan control as an upgrade in future.

In searching the manual in the troubleshooting section I found a good description of the RFC output - it is a square wave output as you say and control is done by varying duty cycle based on engine coolant temperature; i.e. more demand, increase duration of 'on' portion of each pulse. But ya, since there's no feedback and it's not a CAN based control, I doubt it'll cause a CEL; worst case I imagine would be a troubleshooting code for 'fan not connected' or some such thing.

I did use only the Scion xD RH engine mount and it seems to sit in there fairly naturally. Using a chainfall (and not removing the sub-frame because I'm a dum-dum) it was a grunt to get it into the mounts. Once I had it in the RH engine mount, I had to use a prybar and force the whole assembly toward the RH side as the bolt for the LH transmission mount was about a 1/2" too far toward the LH side; this does mean that the LH transmission mount bushing is constantly loaded outward. Once it's driveable I will see if it has clunks and thunks, lol. Some of the guys that have done the 2ZR swap in the 2nd gens might be able to comment if they ran into the same thing (I don't recall reading that was the case, but those memory marbles were pushed out by exam prep. lol). I am a bit concerned about long-term impact on that bushing, but we'll see. I actually just ended-up ordering a new RH engine mount from an online Scion parts dealer. Maybe eBay? I've found some large wrecker companies are using eBay listings; it's how I picked up the correct A/C compressor actually.


...
After reading about your challenges I can see why the FE is typically the go to, seems to be a much easier plug and play since that is what the Scion xD uses

lol, agreed! Although, that said, the FE is more straight-forward now because the odd and sod tidbits have been documented and worked through; tricks discovered by you guys who have finished the swap successfully. I imagine when Tom was working through the FE swap the first time he ran into unknowns. Once this is running and I look back and summarize what was really needed to make it work, maybe it won't seem like such a pain.

-- Adam

[atomic_hoji]

I've been so impressed by this thread I haven't even known how or what to contribute...

Im sorry to hear about you mom, keep your head up buddy.

Let me know if I can be of any assistance.

Appreciate that, thanks Tom! :biggrin:

All the work done by yourself and the others on YW documenting the original swap has been a huge amount of groundwork laid for doing this swap. I'm glad I can build on it, work my way through and document the FAE for the next person.

I'll keep the assistance offer in mind, thanks - I suspect most likely the call for help will be if I go to fire it all up and the immobilizer handshake doesn't work, lol. :laugh:

-- Adam

[ArmstrongRacing]

The issue you mentioned with the LH mount being forced into alignment is exactly how I’ve been running my car since the swap. I chose that setup because it holds the drive-train tighter, and for racing purposes that seemed better. The mount is still in good condition with no tears (yet), but I’m unsure it it contributes to vibrations

[atomic_hoji]

Haven't updated in a while - only jumped on YW at all for quick posts - partly due to personal life and work being busy. Generally things are going much better, Mum's home now with appointments for follow-up and physiotherapy, and I ended up back on a day job (vs shift work). Again, appreciate the support from you folks on YW, thanks! :biggrin:

Delayed thanks to Tom for the response on the engine / transmission mounts - good to know I'm seeing the same thing and you haven't (so far!) had any issues with it, even with the stress of racing being put on the car. :thumbsup:

-- Adam

[atomic_hoji]

So by far the biggest hold up to wrenching has been waiting for parts. You wouldn't think getting a couple of hoses would be so damn hard! :tongue: I live a nice, rural area but unfortunately we don't have a lot of the big supply places - even the chains have to order most of what I want in.. Oddly the dealership had the part I wanted faster! lol

I solved an issue with the coolant line (upper rad.) and electrical (main ECU bundle) both wanting to occupy the same, small space between the Valvematic control box and the battery. Using the Scion xD filler neck assembly (p/n: ) and upper rad. hose will route the line under the air intake instead of over like in the Yaris. Did also order and use the Scion xD heater hoses - they route much better than the Yaris hoses do. Added the Mishimoto inline temperature probe adapter unit into the upper rad. hose so I can power the external fan controller as well.

So after finding enough bravery, I connected all the electrics (nothing exploded - woo!) and went through the Main ECM <-> Immobilizer ECU registration process, and ..

it's

ALIVE

...

almost.

So, this is where I'd appreciate any troubleshooting help you guys may be able to think of.. The summary of what's happened with it so far:

After registering the communication ID I went from ON to Start and it fired - actually, popped loudly, which startled the daylights out of me and I let off Start; found after that I had left the masking tape on the exhaust manifold.. lol Went from ON to Start again and it fired, ran for about 15s (counting mississippis) and stalled. I figured the immobilizer registered successfully as the manual says "ensure engine starts and runs for more than 3 seconds"; it did. So, I gathered it ran on fuel left in the fuel rail, but the fuel line just needed to refill. I disconnected the battery again (don't trust it yet) and went inside for the afternoon - watched Formula Drift Orlando Top 16 with the family.. :biggrin:

Today, went out still with the assumption the immobilizer was solved and I needed to check I was getting fuel. Installed the exhaust - the short run stank out the garage and is loud as hell. Tried to fire it up to test it out and got combustion and a few second run, then fluttered, then stalled. Tried again, feathering the throttle, still assuming I needed to push fuel, ran for a few and then stalled even with the throttle slightly in. Did some checks, e.g. realized I forgot the O2 plug so plugged it back in, and found there's a buzzing/whine on the throttle body housing - wedged a board in the throttle pedal and confirmed the throttle body did open. Went OFF, then ON with OBD2 scanner hooked up and found no codes.. then Start to try again, and got the same thing - fires and flumps. Still trying to start with combustion, but something cuts it out right away - that part feels like immobilizer.

I have an OBD2 scanner, but realized (after trying a couple of times of course), that it's a pretty simple device that may not be reading the DTC code for the immobilizer, or any other Toyota specific DTCs. No generic codes are showing, but then the engine isn't running long, so may not have time to generate a code either.

One of the first times I tried today, after the 15s 'success' yesterday, I feel like I got several seconds, but wasn't counting.. These two things make me think the immobilizer isn't the issue, but with the various tries I have a (conservatively, since I didn't always cycle back to OFF and then ON) count of 10 tries. Manual says absolutely do not cycle more than 20 times or it will lock the immobilizer transponder ECU out and it will require replacement.

I'd like to put an immobilizer bypass in place and see if it fires and runs or behaves the same. If the bypass is a guarantee to work then it will rule out the immobilizer as an issue and I can focus on drive-by-wire, fuel (?), and start the dreaded task of chasing electrical gremlins - since I'm positive my soldering isn't perfect; though I thought I did a decent job, if I do say so myself. Alternatively, a bypass could prove the immobilizer was the issue and it'll start and run; in which case I'll put the hood on and give it a test drive.. lol.

As always, appreciate the support from everyone on YW! So close.. :eek:

-- Adam

p.s. - do have more pictures, and have a list that feels like a mile long of things to run through so that I have everything captured. May try my hand at a video walking through the changes.. dunno if I have the mad camera skills like Tom. :wink:

[tmontague]

Did you disconnect the immobilizer wires from the ecu?

My current set up had me running a non immobilizer ecu but i still had to disconnect 3 immo wires going into the ecu so it doesn't think that it should have an immo.

If your ecu has an immo I'm not too sure what the process would be other then using Toyota techstream software are having the ecu and immo ecu (located at the ignition) properly communicate to eachother

[atomic_hoji]

<placeholder>
Some wiring pictures.. have been removed. New pics to be added soon!

[atomic_hoji]

Did you disconnect the immobilizer wires from the ecu?

My current set up had me running a non immobilizer ecu but i still had to disconnect 3 immo wires going into the ecu so it doesn't think that it should have an immo.

If your ecu has an immo I'm not too sure what the process would be other then using Toyota techstream software are having the ecu and immo ecu (located at the ignition) properly communicate to eachother

The iM will be an immobilizer enabled ECU. The Yaris workshop manual has a 'registration' of the communication ID between the ECM and the transponder ECU, which I followed and thought I had success with - looks like maybe not. I have read on Lexus forums that this worked for an ISF engine swap into a IS350.

Going to try a few things to troubleshoot first, but may end up with a TechStream VCI cable and a 2 day subscription. Have to see if the 2 day will do a VIN registration or immobilizer tweaking.

-- Adam

[ArmstrongRacing]

If your using an IM ECM than you have no choice but to go through the immobilizer registration process. There is no way to bypass that I know of that will work with an IMM ECM

[CrankyOldMan]

You're definitely into uncharted territory from our standpoint. If your ECU requires an immobilizer to work, then you have to find a way to make them happy together.

Where the hell is CTScott when you need him??

[atomic_hoji]

Hey Tom, thanks for the tidbit. Do you mean the DLC3 jumper registration as described in the workshop manual or a TechStream registration..?

-- Adam

[atomic_hoji]

Hmmm... so pin pull is strictly for an immobilzer car with a non-immobilzer system only? Thought with a bypass there was a clever way to trick the ECM into thinking it had a legit signal.

Maybe Scott will see the thread and jump in with some ideas. :biggrin:

-- Adam

[ArmstrongRacing]

Hey Tom, thanks for the tidbit. Do you mean the DLC3 jumper registration as described in the workshop manual or a TechStream registration..?

-- Adam

At first I didn’t think the DLC method would work at all, but if your engine ran for 15 seconds it must have worked on some level. I say this because every single ECM swap I’ve done, the engine fires up for maybe 2-3 seconds and dies. After that it will only crank and never run again until you disconnect the battery.

The only fix I’ve ever seen was to bypass the IM module if you have a non-IM ECM, or to register completely via the dealership process. I’ve hear of people getting the donor cars IM module and key to make it work as well.

Another thing to consider is those guys that come and cut keys for you, I’ve heard they have a way to register keys.

[atomic_hoji]

I figure I'll give it a try again tomorrow and see if maybe disconnecting the battery right after knackered it..

Because the engine was from a wrecker I don't think I could get the transponder ECU, but I'll give them a shout in case it was saved.

Good call on the mobile lock and key, may be able to make the link if they have TechStream Security access.. Have to make some calls.

-- Adam

[atomic_hoji]

Had a tinker this morning and..


It's

ALIVE

...

for real! :eek:

Just posting up excitement at the moment, but she ran for about 30s while I checked belts, etc.. and she stinks bad - exhaust leak at the manifold to downpipe because the xD exhaust doesn't mate with the hangers on the Yaris.. BUT, sits and idles OK.

Having a tasty beverage and heading out to run errands, pick-up kids from school, etc.. will plug away more soon.

-- Adam

[tmontague]

Congrats buddy!

[ArmstrongRacing]

OMG shit just got REAL!!!!

Congrats dude and great work!!!

Now, what fixed it? Lol

[atomic_hoji]

Thanks guys! :thumbup:

Sorry on the delay - executive decision with nice weather to get some other things finished yesterday; poor truck must feel for attention, everything is breaking - rear caliper hung-up (fixed now), exhaust literally broke in two so the muffler is dangling, front half-shaft inner CV is sloppy and clunks around, and since I put the mud terrain summer tires back on the steering is like a battletank.. seriously, vehicle jealousy must be real. :eek:

...

The short version is - FUEL! I'll put my long-winded troubleshooting below, but basically the solution was to 'jumper' the fuel pump to turn on with the ignition signal (IGN). The technical explanation and and how to implement the solution is as follows:

On the Yaris pin-21 on A72 (small ECM connector) is for fuel pump control (FPC). When the ECM detects crankshaft rotation, it puts a signal to pin-21 to provide a ground. This provides power to the C/OPN relay coil in the main engine junction box (JB), closing the relay switch which provides power from the EFI Main circuit to the fuel pump; fuel pump runs steady as long as the car is running.

In the iM, pin-21 on A72 is also FPC, but it works differently. When the ECM detects a need for fuel it outputs a control signal to a separate fuel pump control ECM which in turn controls the fuel pump; apparently a variable speed pump. So, at low fuel, i.e. idle, low signal, but when you hit the throttle it needs more fuel, signal increases.

Before the modification, the iM ECM was basically being incorrectly used as a ground as the circuit expected from the stock Yaris ECM. It was likely working when I first fired it up as idle would have a very low fuel demand, but as the signal varied at pin-21 (I touched the throttle) I believe it was causing the C/OPN relay coil to chatter or de-energize, cutting the fuel pump and stalling. This seems to jive as the latter times I was trying to start it I was pushing the throttle in part way thinking it would help it rev and avoid stalling and it was stalling out more quickly - hence thinking < 3s the immobilizer was killing it.

WARNING - this solution bypasses ECM control of the fuel pump! The factory ECM is designed to shut off the fuel pump in the event of an accident. If you do not, or are unable to, turn the ignition off in the event of an accident there is an increased risk of injury or death due to fuel system fire.

Intense, but seriously, it bypasses a safety feature - always be careful, and understand what you've changed and how it impacts the vehicle.. :thumbsup:

To jumper the fuel pump to the IGN signal remove the upper half of the main engine JB, disconnect connector 1E from the bottom side of the integrated relay assembly (skinny white rectangle), and pop out pin-11 (violet). Blank the pin as it will still have a live signal from the ECM with heat shrink and/or electrical tape. From a spare harness, I grabbed a matching terminal with a length of wire, inserted the new terminal into pin-11, and ran the loose end to a body ground connection. Alternatively you can cut the violet wire leaving a pigtail and solder/crimp to existing terminal, then run to body ground. What this does is put a permanent ground on the C/OPN relay coil which, since the relay coil is only provided power when the IGN relay is energized (key to ON), it won't have power when the car is off but once the key hits ON it will energize and start the fuel pump.

...

Basically, as much as the way it was behaving seemed like the immobilizer had me beat I couldn't explain why I had it fire up for the first 15s the first try. I was willing to accept maybe a fluke, but I would have sworn I had a ~6s run as well; wasn't counting so could have been wrong. It was Tom's comment about how the immobilizer would let it fire and die in 2-3s and then just crank, i.e. no combustion, that I thought some further troubleshooting was worthwhile as I each time I was getting combustion; it was just short lived and the engine literally shuddered and stalled out. There was buzzing/whine from the throttle body assembly and what I thought was the vacuum canister pump (which turned out to be the fuel pump) noises that I didn't understand either. So, I decided to run through the basics: air, fuel, spark.

Air seemed like a possibility as the throttle body was making noise and the MAF sensor was a cheap Chinese purchase. I randown the MAF and drive-by-wire electrical drawings and they seemed fine as I had recalled. My solder isn't perfect, so checked the voltage at the MAF and it was fine. Pushed the throttle pedal and checked the throttle body was responding and it was. I looked up the on-vehicle checks for each and they were easy enough to check and put them on the list. Nothing obviously outstanding that was telling me air was likely the problem.

Fuel was in the rail and getting into cylinders as I had combustion, but wasn't sustained. I reviewed the electrical drawings and came across the difference in the Yaris and the iM fuel pump control - which shouldn't have surprised me given the more complicated cooling fan control setup on the iM vs. the simple relay setup on the Yaris! I suspect with all the flipping back and forth of drawings when I made my original notes way back in the Fall I either missed it or accidentally looked at the same drawing for both and concluded they were the same - I caught myself on that once or twice; too many windows open at once is a setup for confusion! lol After digging into the SFI troubleshooting sections of each workshop manual and understanding better I was pretty convinced fuel was the problem - in running my start attempts through my head again it made sense that it was cutting sooner as each try I was pushing throttle in to get it to rev and avoid stalling. So, I jumpered the fuel pump to the battery before I connected anything and verified that the sound I was hearing was the fuel pump - it was - and then spent some time figuring out how to make the above solution to make the fuel pump circuit in the Yaris work with the iM FPC output. Tried it again and off to the races! (Then posted in excitement.. lol)

Never got to spark, which was pretty low suspect because it had been firing and when it was at idle the short time it was behaving.

...

More assembly today after work - got the interior, cowl, wiper etc.. all installed. The Injen cold air intake (CAI) just doesn't fit, so I can't get the LH headlight and bumper re-installed. I'll get the hood on and roll the car outside so I can pull the metal working stuff out and fab ECM brackets next. Once it's in place and final electrical routing and tidy-up is done I'll have to have a hack at the Injen CAI for fitment. Then: test drive.

-- Adam

[ArmstrongRacing]

This is so awesome. You need to make a thread about the immobilizer registration process too, because you just proved we can use IM ECM’s.

That means every engine including a tC swap is now on the table!

[atomic_hoji]

Started! (http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60629) - in progress.. But will keep working on making it a decent resource to follow. :thumbsup:

LOL - it's funny you say the Scion tC. When I was first debating the swap I naturally wandered down the path of the 2AR. This led to searching for Yaris 2AR swaps, which led to the Papadakis Racing 2AR powered Corolla iM Formula Drift car, which led to YouTube, which has resulted in Formula Drift making the Family Calendar on event weekends.

If I recall, the bit I found led me to believe that the engine mount setup wasn't straight forward like the 2ZR and it would have involved more frame cutting due to the length of the 2AR; also exhaust is opposite side, etc.. etc.. Ultimately, the 2ZR approach was a much more elegant solution for a boost in performance on a daily driver, so here we are!

Of course, that's not to say you shouldn't have a go at the 2AR swap... and start a thread... soon... so we can couch co-pilot the build with you. :laugh:

-- Adam

[ArmstrongRacing]

Hahaha, yeah racing has a way of taking over the whole families free time. I’m just blessed with an understanding wife and very committed sponsors!

The 2AR is tempting, but I’d like to keep playing with the 2ZR since it’s lighter. Also I am interested in using the 3ZR block to do a 2.0L hybrid build one day

[atomic_hoji]

Long delay since last post.. Wish I could say I was ripping around the county with the awesomeness of the 2ZR under the hood, but unfortunately that's not the case. Had a miserable couple of weeks going back and forth to hospital, taking care of finances, etc.. for my Mum; she then passed over the holiday weekend (Victoria Day here in Canada). Feel like I've volumes or time on my hands, but on the other hand basically no time at all - probably spent most of it pacing or flopped on the couch when not actively busy with things. Got off my butt and up to some wrenching and other chores today - finding it's better to keep occupied than dwell; although, man, I needed the catch up on sleep.. Have the rest of the week off on bereavement leave to attend to services, lawyer meetings, etc.. but going to try to get some much needed updates into this and the immobilizer threads to keep focused on something enjoyable.

---

Swap update! :eek:

When I took the car for a quick rip I've found that it's not firing smooth at idle and actually stalled out when I rolled into the driveway with the clutch in. So I checked the OBD2 codes and found that I have codes P030# (0 to 4 inclusive; 0: misfire on multiple cylinders, and then 1-4: misfire in respective # cylinder) and P0171: running lean; codes all pending, I suspect not stored as I haven't been through a second 'drive cycle'..

So far, I've checked the MAF and it seems to be reasonably in spec - brought it in the house and let it sit at room temp of 21C then took a measurement of the resistance and the number is at the low side of spec, which is for 20C, so it seems like it's not the culprit. I also had a run through of the connections in case there is air in-leakage, but they seem reasonably tight. Wondering if the Injen cold air intake is causing it to lean out - it is designed for a 2ZR-FE, but then the FE runs via throttle body, where-as once warm the FAE apparently throttles using the inlet valves and the throttle body is wide-open (at least that the gist of what I've read - digging into it more). Of course, piss-poor electrical connections are on the short list.. lol

Ideas for troubleshooting appreciated as I'm sure there will be things I'm overlooking.

-- Adam

[atomic_hoji]

Hahaha, yeah racing has a way of taking over the whole families free time. I’m just blessed with an understanding wife and very committed sponsors!

The 2AR is tempting, but I’d like to keep playing with the 2ZR since it’s lighter. Also I am interested in using the 3ZR block to do a 2.0L hybrid build one day

lol - it's true, it does. The car/truck bug requires a very understanding relationship. I'm very fortunate that in the several years since we moved into our current house my wife has yet to park in the garage including all winter (neither have I, of course. lol). The garage is no place for a running vehicle, that's where we build! :laugh:

Love the idea of playing with the 3ZR to make a 2.0L setup. From what I've seen, but without pulling one apart, I think the ZR is really the little sister to the AR and has the potential to produce power in the same way - obviously scaled. But I bet a lot of the same tricks will work, if you can find the supporting parts. Have my mind on the idea of doing a 2ZR-FE teardown and documenting it; can't let that get on the radar until the Yaris is resolved and I clear out some truck stuff - my wife's understanding does have limits... lol

-- Adam

[3cyltrbo]

So sorry to hear of your mom passing.

When my dad passed 4 years ago, I spent alot of time in the garage tinkering on stuff in the days and weeks after.

For me, I found that I could be in a totally different place emotionally when I was in the calmness of the garage. Laying on my back under a car and tinkering, really helped me.

I must have made 25 adjustments back and forth to the rear suspension in my Yaris........ just subconsciously keeping myself focused on something other than the lost loved one.

As far as the swap, hopefully you get it sorted in order to take advantage of our too short summer season.

Cheers

Will

[atomic_hoji]

Appreciate the kind words, thanks Will. I find the same thing, that tinkering has been a good way to keep distracted from other things; have definitely been occupied with troubleshooting the lean condition - I think I've pulled the battery in and out about a dozen times going after various sensors, etc.. lol. We've also kept busy doing family activities together, which has been good.

Summer too short? It's already starting in May and will stay hot until September! :biggrin:

Am looking forward to having it run reliably. My 1981 Toyota truck with a 1987 22RE swapped in took a fresh battery, didn't start, I kicked the F* out of the starter, and she runs - always runs for me.. FJC is the same way. Just don't have the trust with the Yaris yet. Apparently the rule of not messing with the daily driver was supposed to apply to cars as it did with my trucks, so my wife says now.. :tongue:

Never-the-less, did make progress - dumped the fuel tank to a jerry can, as much as would siphon out, and added a dozen liters of fresh fuel. The misfires have cleared now, but still lean. Running through fuel, air, spark as usual...

Can't imagine fuel is still a problem. Fuel is fresh(er), and being delivered; other 2ZR swaps haven't upgraded the fuel pump, so I don't imagine I'm starving the injectors; could be weak power to injectors if it was wiring.. maybe? Or maybe still just poor quality fuel.

Air: there's too much of it, lol. I've clamped up the exhaust leak good and tight now (no smell, fumes, 'smoke' etc.. detectable), and chased all the lines downstream of the MAF for in leakage - can't find anything. MAF checks out resistance measurement wise, but still wondering if the Cold Air Intake is causing issue due to differing diameters - the diameter narrows at the MAF in order to avoid the issue, but again, maybe the FAE is more picky? Throttle body makes some weird noises, but seems to operate open and closed when in the ON position.

Spark: doesn't seem to be an issue, as it runs, but then maybe a weak spark if the wiring is causing an issue? Haven't put too much weight on the spark, but open to suggestions.

Waiting on a Techstream compatible cable to arrive from an online order. Once I have it and get it setup I'll get a 2-day subscription over a weekend and run through the workshop manual troubleshooting that requires Techstream - it will be able to run sensor and component tests beyond resistance and voltage measurements that I can do currently.

So far, I'm boggled.

I DID, however, get my Mishimoto Fan Controller installed and wired up - was actually fairly straight forward, and I actually used some jumpers in the main Junction Box to keep the factory fan connector in place; once again, if I have to pull the whole sh-bang, there's no modification to the factory Yaris harness.

-- Adam

[atomic_hoji]

Quick update: replaced MAF with a proper one (as opposed to the cheap, online purchase via chinese market); disconnected the fuel line and used the fuel pump to empty the tank this time and put 10L premium (did some testing) and added another 10L regular fuel in; did another check of all possible air in-leakage points... OBD2 scanner shows fuel trim is now more toward too rich v. too lean.. :iono: but at least the codes are all clear.

Took it for a longer test drive out some county roads and around a good 'test' loop - nice place to open a car up a bit and power around a curvy industrial road. Engine seems to run well for the most part - exhaust definitely needs to get welded, god what a noise.. lol

Bigger concern with it now is that when I was going around a long, left-hand bend in the road there's a rough noise, almost a growl - reminds me of an out of balance or too much angle on a driveshaft, e.g. when a truck gets lifted.. wondering if either I've dinked installing an axle shaft or if the engine or exhaust is being bumped against the frame/body and causing a vibration.

Oh, and the slip light stays on all the time - guessing due to the difference in 2016 ABS/VSC/TRAC system vs. the 2018 TSS-C system; or iM v. Yaris and they don't want to talk..?

Received my techstream cable in the mail during the week and got the software installed. Didn't purchase a subscription for this weekend as I was away a good portion of the weekend. Will try this upcoming weekend and see what I can play with! :biggrin:

Progress..
-- Adam

[tmontague]

Fwiw my car has always had fuel trims showing too rich (approx 10%) ever since I got a custom exhaust made, even back when I had my 1nz, and I have no exhaust leaks.

The noise you are hearing on corners could be axle bind and chances are it would be more violent. Turn sharper and see what happens to see if it gets worse

[DarkShadowFox]

why does your engine bay look burned . - .

[tmontague]

:confused:why does your engine bay look burned . - .

[atomic_hoji]

Fwiw my car has always had fuel trims showing too rich (approx 10%) ever since I got a custom exhaust made, even back when I had my 1nz, and I have no exhaust leaks.

The noise you are hearing on corners could be axle bind and chances are it would be more violent. Turn sharper and see what happens to see if it gets worse

Hmm.. well that's good to keep in mind, thanks for the tidbit! :thumbsup:

I was reading (and re-reading) last night and went back through your thread on using the Tercel axle to solve the bind problem - which is awesome clever btw.. I took the car out again today and gave a good swerve back and forth. Seems to be only when turning left, but sounds like it's on the right side - which would be the long-side (passenger) axle, not the driver side as you found. Over-extending the passenger side? I doubt I'm tire rubbing as I"m stock height suspension and stock wheel & tire setup. I had also thought the brakes were just coated with rust and such from sitting, but confirmed today that it has a constant vibration in the brake pedal under braking. The noise when turning isn't very loud or bang like, more like a growl... On the drive the CEL/MIL and TRAC OFF lights both came on. I did a bit of searching and, not surprisingly like much of the iM parts, the brake actuator is iM specific; not shared with Yaris or even the Corolla sedan. They communicated via CAN bus, and the being the Yaris brake actuator wired to the Yaris speed sensors, etc.. they're happy, but I wonder if the brake actuator is getting garbage from the ECM and vice versa.. Will have to see.

why does your engine bay look burned . - .

+1 :confused: Not sure what you mean by burnt.. The yellow-orange dis-colouration is the oil "under" (all over) coating. It's a waxy oil coating and is tacky and nasty to work in the engine bay - living in the salt belt it will be good for the car in the long run, but it is a p.i.t.a when wrenching. :rolleyes:

-- Adam

[DarkShadowFox]

Hmm.. well that's good to keep in mind, thanks for the tidbit! :thumbsup:

I was reading (and re-reading) last night and went back through your thread on using the Tercel axle to solve the bind problem - which is awesome clever btw.. I took the car out again today and gave a good swerve back and forth. Seems to be only when turning left, but sounds like it's on the right side - which would be the long-side (passenger) axle, not the driver side as you found. Over-extending the passenger side? I doubt I'm tire rubbing as I"m stock height suspension and stock wheel & tire setup. I had also thought the brakes were just coated with rust and such from sitting, but confirmed today that it has a constant vibration in the brake pedal under braking. The noise when turning isn't very loud or bang like, more like a growl... On the drive the CEL/MIL and TRAC OFF lights both came on. I did a bit of searching and, not surprisingly like much of the iM parts, the brake actuator is iM specific; not shared with Yaris or even the Corolla sedan. They communicated via CAN bus, and the being the Yaris brake actuator wired to the Yaris speed sensors, etc.. they're happy, but I wonder if the brake actuator is getting garbage from the ECM and vice versa.. Will have to see.



+1 :confused: Not sure what you mean by burnt.. The yellow-orange dis-colouration is the oil "under" (all over) coating. It's a waxy oil coating and is tacky and nasty to work in the engine bay - living in the salt belt it will be good for the car in the long run, but it is a p.i.t.a when wrenching. :rolleyes:

-- Adam

my manual said "wax coating applied to engine bay" that must be the "WAX" coating they are talking about.


also cant you just mount up the IM brake actuator thing to the... yeah

heres what you can do when thats happening is like. run it, run an OBD2 scanner while driving see if it throws any codes. I think. I'm an armchair mechanic.

[atomic_hoji]

My guess is that's what they meant by wax coating then, ya... the shop that did mine got a little carried away I think - it's supposed to be a nice, thin coating, not a globular mess.. lol

Already started shopping for an iM brake actuator, BUT ... before getting too far down that rabbit hole, I checked and the connectors on the Yaris and the iM are completely different; would mean needing to find a connector and terminals and re-wire my Yaris body harness - do-able, but think it needs some troubleshooting and thought first. Also wondering with the change in 2017 to the Corolla iM with TSS-C is the 2017 ECM would play better with the Yaris' brake actuator..

Going to pull the brake actuator connector, fire it up, and see how she behaves without any brake control/assistance. My FJC is a 2007, which is pre-disable VSC/TRAC capability. I found if you pull the ABS sensor on the brake actuator it goes into "I don't know what to do, so I'll do nothing, throw a bunch of lights, and just act like a normal, non-ABS brake system" mode. Figure it's worth a try with the Yaris and see if the brake stutter goes away, hopefully the growl as well, as it would mean the brake actuator is mis-behaving and nothing mechanically is wrong.

There's a solution to this problem... it just needs to be found. :biggrin:

-- Adam

[atomic_hoji]

(Un)fortunately?! the solution is not the brake actuator - dis-connected it and the drive is the exact same, although has a vast number more lights on the dash, lol.

CEL/MIL is on and officially running too rich - LTFT is at 30%! And exhaust has soot build-up; it's like having a diesel again. Also threw a code about MAF out of range...

Path forward I think is when I yank the battery to re-connect the brake actuator I'm going to pull the wiring on the O2 sensor out and have an inspection, maybe cut out the sketchy heat-shrink, built-in solder mess and crimp and seal a new connection on those wires. Going to put the front back up on jackstands, pull the wheels and go over everything again.. see if there's signs of rubbing.. check the axles are back in and seated, etc..

With having everything disconnected there's a good chance the alignment is out of whack... I figured it'd be alright, at least in the short term. Anyone heard of alignment being out of whack causing a growl / vibration under braking and steering?

Hot smell of (what I assume) is exhaust and undercoating is also sketchy feeling.. lol

Finding out what is not the problem is progress still, right? :biggrin:

-- Adam

[ArmstrongRacing]

30% LTFT is insane man, definitely not good.

The MAF input to the ECM is extremely important on these cars since thats our only air measurement device.

The only time ive ever seen MAF codes is when its unplugged, or electrically shorted. check the sensor inside the MAF, and check the voltage reading the ECM is receiving.

[CrankyOldMan]

What did you do to wire in the MAF power? The xD harness uses a different pin than the Yaris and the connector is different.

[atomic_hoji]

Hey, thanks for the replies guys. :thumbsup:

30% LTFT is insane man, definitely not good.
The MAF input to the ECM is extremely important on these cars since thats our only air measurement device.
The only time ive ever seen MAF codes is when its unplugged, or electrically shorted. check the sensor inside the MAF, and check the voltage reading the ECM is receiving.

I didn't actually verify the measurement checks on the new MAF... I'll do that, and do some other checks as you mentioned, thanks Tom. Ya, the ECM for the iM won't even let the car start without the MAF plugged in - found that out by accident, lol.

What did you do to wire in the MAF power? The xD harness uses a different pin than the Yaris and the connector is different.

So the Yaris uses a dedicated power from the main JB to the MAF, which I left the wires and connector in place for the Yaris and just tucked it aside. The iM main engine harness has all the wires direct from the ECM, except 12V power which comes from the connector that goes to the main JB. On the iM the line supplying the MAF is shared back with the ECM +B +B2 and the canister pump, so I tapped the 12V supply that goes to the AFR and purge solenoid, figuring it could handle the current. I've been suspecting that there's too much noise or something on that line, but with the cheap MAF having the paint rub off and the cover disconnecting it was easier to blame - was hoping I wouldn't have to cut and resolder... Think it's time to run a dedicated 12V line for the MAF.

Other suspect wiring is the O2 sensor, however the codes being thrown are connected to the AFR sensor, not the O2 sensor - to be honest I'm not really sure what the O2 sensor does on these cars... lol

It's weird that after replacing the MAF with a better quality unit that the LTFT went from nearly +30% running lean on the cheap MAF to -30% running rich on the new MAF with no changes to wiring, etc.. But, unfortunately, I may just have to admit that my wiring is questionable. :redface:

Again, appreciate the support from everyone! :thumbup: There are some things I'm good with on cars, but then there's plenty I still need to learnify..

-- Adam

[tmontague]

The o2 sensor afaik is essentially there just for emissions/car converter efficiency checks. You are correct that the trim codes are due to a reading performed by the afr sensor. I wouldn't worry too much about the o2 sensor for now. Check for exhaust leaks as well as wiring to the maf

[atomic_hoji]

Thanks for the confirmation; I also agree because the O2 wire repair is on the backside of the Valvematic box, just above the heater line - i.e. huge p.i.t.a. to get at, lol. :biggrin:

Put the car up on jackstands to have a look underneath and see if the vibration, etc.. and found what I strongly suspect is my problem..
<no picture, it's just embarrassing..>
EDIT: Jumped the gun.. with tires on the ground, full range of motion has at least an inch or more of clearance through-out.. suspect that the wear is leftover from test drives without bumper plastics installed. Dammit.. there's nothing (else) obviously rubbing, wrong or untorqued that I can find.

In the progress of opening up my wiring this afternoon - solder really does look fine, I suspect it's unhappy about the power supply being shared with the AFR sensor etc.. My wife's Dad is coming up this weekend, he spent years soldering and repair circuit boards, electronics, etc.. so I'll get him to have a look with me and show me the soldering mojo.

-- Adam

[atomic_hoji]

Quick update - wiring changes made no difference, but hooking the computer up while driving brought to light a couple things. Monitoring STFT and LTFT while driving shows how the STFT is changing under load. With little load it pulls the fuel trim way back, but give it throttle it moves toward neutral (0%). I had the epiphany that the iM demands fuel pump by duty cycle, but the way I've got it setup it is ignoring the duty cycle request and always giving 100%; the ECM asks for x% and the system is ramming 100% to the injectors all the time. Made sense to me anyway..
-- Adam

[CrankyOldMan]

I had the epiphany that the iM demands fuel pump by duty cycle, but the way I've got it setup it is ignoring the duty cycle request and always giving 100%; the ECM asks for x% and the system is ramming 100% to the injectors all the time. Made sense to me anyway..
-- Adam

Makes sense to me that it's pulling fuel then. It's getting too much fuel for the expected injector duty cycle.

[atomic_hoji]

Makes sense to me that it's pulling fuel then. It's getting too much fuel for the expected injector duty cycle.

At least if I'm wrong the problem had us both duped?! :biggrin:

Here's a plot from when I had Techstream running on the weekend.. The Fuel Pump duty request was only about 75% (scale labels are goofy) most of the time - only jumped up to about 90% when I jumped on the throttle some. STFT is all over the place, not surprisingly, but does average out to around 0%'ish... sort of... LTFT (not shown, doesn't change much like STFT) was still -30%, but did jump up and down some. Used a reset Utility to clear all the learned values; even though I had the battery disconnected while I was doing wiring repair, the LTFT was still way off. I'm sure a bad learned value isn't helping the cause.

59635

Have queries in to a couple of online places to see what the price new is for a Fuel Pump Control ECU is; will also need the connector, which is ~$10 or so, and hope I have terminals to use with it.. if not, it's time to Hodge Podge Bodge the bugger.. :laugh: In all honesty, I think proper FPC should help sort out the fuel trim. Was hoping my clever fuel pump bypass had solved the problem, but seems like it will just end up running overly rich and likely have terrible fuel economy if I leave it this way.

Also dropped the exhaust and notched the flange where it was rubbing the body - not perfect, but a dramatic reduction in the nasty vibration when steering left. When I drop it again to weld the repair piece in I'll round out a bit more off the flange and see if I can 'clearance' the tunnel slightly - yes, I mean use a hammer... :biggrin:

-- Adam

[CrankyOldMan]

At least if I'm wrong the problem had us both duped?! :biggrin:

Here's a plot from when I had Techstream running on the weekend.. The Fuel Pump duty request was only about 75% (scale labels are goofy) most of the time - only jumped up to about 90% when I jumped on the throttle some. STFT is all over the place, not surprisingly, but does average out to around 0%'ish... sort of... LTFT (not shown, doesn't change much like STFT) was still -30%, but did jump up and down some. Used a reset Utility to clear all the learned values; even though I had the battery disconnected while I was doing wiring repair, the LTFT was still way off. I'm sure a bad learned value isn't helping the cause.

Have queries in to a couple of online places to see what the price new is for a Fuel Pump Control ECU is; will also need the connector, which is ~$10 or so, and hope I have terminals to use with it.. if not, it's time to Hodge Podge Bodge the bugger.. :laugh: In all honesty, I think proper FPC should help sort out the fuel trim. Was hoping my clever fuel pump bypass had solved the problem, but seems like it will just end up running overly rich and likely have terrible fuel economy if I leave it this way.

Also dropped the exhaust and notched the flange where it was rubbing the body - not perfect, but a dramatic reduction in the nasty vibration when steering left. When I drop it again to weld the repair piece in I'll round out a bit more off the flange and see if I can 'clearance' the tunnel slightly - yes, I mean use a hammer... :biggrin:

-- Adam

What about swapping the fuel pump itself for one that doesn't use PWM? I'm not sure if the previous gen Yaris uses a fixed rate pump or not, but none of the 2ZR-FE swaps have the same fuel problem.

[atomic_hoji]

What about swapping the fuel pump itself for one that doesn't use PWM? I'm not sure if the previous gen Yaris uses a fixed rate pump or not, but none of the 2ZR-FE swaps have the same fuel problem.

Mm.. I don't think my Yaris fuel pump is the issue. Looks like all Yaris - older and current - all use fixed ON/OFF fuel pumps. The ECM detects IGN and crank motion, grounds FPC terminal to energize the C/OPN relay and the fuel pump runs - nice and simple. My Google-fu finds the 10th gen. Corolla and xD use this same fuel pump control method, hence why in those swaps the ECMs worked without issue with the Yaris fuel pump setup.

Why I'm running into problems is that 2014+ systems have this fuel pump control ECU that receives the ECM duty cycle output signal and controls power to the fuel pump motor. The ECM must be programmed with injection pulse widths expecting that the fuel pump flow is corresponigly reduced as the ECM is requesting on the FPC output. Where-as my Yaris fuel pump flow is hardwired to run ON/OFF style, so when the ECM is for example set to open the fuel injector for # ms and is requesting 77% fuel pump flow, what is happening is the injectors open for # ms with the fuel pump at 100%; the AFR detects it's way rich and pulls the fuel trim to meet target air:fuel.

Or at least that's how I understand it.. :biggrin:

Have a fuel pump control ECU ordered with the associated 6-pin connector. Having to bring it in from the California warehouse he said, so could be a bit to get it across the border and out to me. I'll run thr FPC wire this weekend, I think. And see if my 1.75" exhaust tube comes in tomorrow - the truck's muffler has been broken for months, so I've become kind of used to exhaust noise.. lol

-- Adam

[CrankyOldMan]

Interesting. So it's the same part number for the pump itself?

I ask because the company I work for makes an oil pump that can do both, depending on what communication it sees, without the need for an intermediate controller.

[atomic_hoji]

I apologize Sam, I think I mis-understood what you meant.. An aftermarket setup could be an alternative solution if there was such a beast made for in tank fuel pump setups. Assuming it cost less than a fuel pump control ECU, connector, etc.. that would be a slick way to go!

Anywho, you did give me some ideas to look into as well.. The part numbers on the fuel pumps are different across the board - Yaris is shared with Prius; xD has it's own; iM has it's own; early Corolla shares with Matrix, but later has it's own - i.e. 2009-2013 IS different vs. 2014+. Not sure what the differences are across each - I imagine very little, maybe something to match the internals in the tank, i.e. mounting, etc.. Maybe flow matched to ECMs better? Not sure.

I did also double check the workshop manual on the fuel pump operation, just in case there's anything special noted that would make me think I need to replace the fuel pump.. The fuel pumps on the newer cars that are driven by the fuel pump control ECU are controlled as follows: a duty cycle signal from the ECM to the ECU - this signal requests % fuel pump duty to the ECU, the ECU then varies the output voltage to the fuel pump motor to change the speed of the fuel pump. Since the Yaris' fuel pump is a basic electric motor, changing the voltage should have the same effect on it as the iM (or any other) basic electric motor fuel pump - I believe; we'll see.

While the 2ZR-FAE has been an interesting challenge, I'm not sure it's worth the extra hassle, lol. Although, that being said, a newer Corolla 2ZR-FE would have the same issues and (without verifying, but I suspect) if you're on a 3rd gen. Yaris platform, due to the change of pins on the modern ECMs, you may be stuck with these. In a round-about way I think I've justified that this is the way it goes on the 3rd gens... lol

Just about there - at least it's driveable (although I imagine fuel economy would be terrible, lol) as it is now, so shows it can be done. Exhaust is out for welding, so back to truck until that's finished - not happy with that whole deal, but it'll work for the time being.

-- Adam

[CrankyOldMan]

I think I misunderstood what I meant to say as well. =) Basically, I wanted to verify if the pump was the same for the Yaris and iM with only the controller being different. The anecdote about a pump we make at work was only related in that it has the ability to respond to different types of input, not that fuel pumps would have the same ability. It's non-trivial to add that capability to a simple DC motor.

I think you've done a spectacular job with this. So many people would have just give up when it wouldn't start, but you've pressed on and discovered a TON of valuable info for the rest of the community. Yes, it's been a headache for you at times, but you've done something that nobody else has (that we know of) and set the stage for even crazier stuff to come!

[atomic_hoji]

lol - fair enough. Maybe not a simple conversion (at at a quick Google a bust), but perhaps you're on to a new business idea here, Sam!? :biggrin:

I appreciate the feedback, thanks. I really do hope that even though it isn't quite as neat and clean a swap as it is on the 2nd gen. Yaris we'll see some more 2ZR-FE/FAE swaps on the 3rd gen. platform.

Set the stage ... crazier stuff - ssshhh... don't tell the wife about the turbo kit! :laugh: jk'ing ... one can dream though.

-- Adam

[ArmstrongRacing]

At least if I'm wrong the problem had us both duped?! :biggrin:

Here's a plot from when I had Techstream running on the weekend.. The Fuel Pump duty request was only about 75% (scale labels are goofy) most of the time - only jumped up to about 90% when I jumped on the throttle some. STFT is all over the place, not surprisingly, but does average out to around 0%'ish... sort of... LTFT (not shown, doesn't change much like STFT) was still -30%, but did jump up and down some. Used a reset Utility to clear all the learned values; even though I had the battery disconnected while I was doing wiring repair, the LTFT was still way off. I'm sure a bad learned value isn't helping the cause.

59635
:

-- Adam
The graphs look somewhat normal to me. The only thing that looks strange is at the end where you start stabbing the throttle. It’s proving feedback on the first stab but then it just starts reading a full rich condition. That tells me either it went into Open Loop or you A/F sensor is not reading properly???

[atomic_hoji]

The graphs look somewhat normal to me. The only thing that looks strange is at the end where you start stabbing the throttle. It’s proving feedback on the first stab but then it just starts reading a full rich condition. That tells me either it went into Open Loop or you A/F sensor is not reading properly???

That's good to know, thanks. :thumbsup: Getting into fuel trims and some (most) of this stuff is new ground for me, so nice to know what's normal.

Unfortunately I don't recall what I was doing when I did the run, though looks like accelerating and shifting under mid-throttle - seems about right..? I have checked the AFR resistance and it was in spec, but ya maybe the AFR is mis-behaving or something related is tripping the ECM up and going open loop. Going to try some more troubleshooting once I have the FPC ECU installed - which is on order and was able to pick-up a 2000 mile unit off eBay for about half the price.

-- Adam

[atomic_hoji]

Found a new issue today, which is more of a nuisance than it is a serious problem...

After getting the exhaust welded through the week and re-installed yesterday I needed fuel, so I did a run into town this morning. Given it's 40C with humidex today and there's no A/C in the Yaris yet, it was actually miserable, but I digress.. lol. What I did find is that putting ~24L of fuel into the tank causes the fuel gauge on the display cluster to read nearly full! :eek: Had a think on it and a quick review of the workshop manuals, and came up with <something completely wrong>.

Solution ... ? Going to have to see if there's an option to reset Combination Meter learning, or check the fuel sender isn't gunked from sitting for months.. or leave it and hope it goes away after a few fills. :biggrin:

-- Adam

edited: because I'm a dummy and can't read a system diagram properly, lol.

[ArmstrongRacing]

I don’t think fuel tank size has anything to do with the reading on the cluster. It’s just a resistance feedback from a swing style gauge. The wires run up the driver side to the left most fuse box connector, pass through the fuse box to the meter.

[atomic_hoji]

... you are correct, sir. And I is a dum-dum.. :redface:

"FUEL: Receives fuel level signal from fuel sender gauge assembly (Direct line)."

Apparently the large, rectangle on the system diagram is the Combination Meter, not the ECM.. d'oh. :facepalm: It sounded so good.. That does then make me wonder why the gauge is donkey'd. Combination Meter ECU learning? Hm...

Never-the-less, above edited to avoid confusion.

-- Adam

[atomic_hoji]

There's a quote about failures and experience and such... but I'm not biting; just failing.. :rolleyes:

So, for the record, the Toyota Tercel CV trick a. did not solve my problem, and b. does not work on the 3rd gen. hatchback with the 2ZR swap as I have it setup. In trying to fix my left-hand turn growl I decided to pick-up and install a 1998 Tercel CV on the driver side as tmontague had done with success. Unfortunately, I set the car down off the jack, fired it up, put it in reverse and heard BANG, BANG as the car rolled. On inspection the inner CV boot was all twisted up. I knew when I installed it that it was pulling on the axle as I tightened up on the nut, but apparently it pulls too much. :eek:

The Fuel Pump Control (FPC) ECU is installed in the trunk area with relative ease - if you are going to do this setup then run the wire while everything is out and apart! I spent way too long futzing about with a nice run and gave up - it's in 1/4" wire loom from engine bay, along the fuel pump lines, and up into the fuel pump access under the rear seat - works fine, just not quite as clean an install. After a test run today (with the stock CV axle installed again re: the above mess) I found that the LTFT started better (I reset it) and then as the car warmed up and I did a longer, several kilometer drive, took a crap back to way deep in the -'ves again. So seems that was not the awesome solution I had hoped for.

Next plan is to check the wiring and if they match swap the 1NZ spangly new AFR sensor into the 2ZR and see if that works; which was what Tom noted earlier that the plots were showing a weird response so maybe the AFR sensor was shot. Being that it was a low mileage engine and bunged when removed by the wrecker (and a very simple sensor) I didn't go for it first; looking like it's worth a try now..

OH, side note - I did find that fuel tank senders must have some non-linearity to them, so I'm not just crazy... I put a jerry can of fuel into my truck, about 15L worth, and the needle moved from just under 3/4 to just over 3/4 full - 15L is slightly less than a 1/4 tank on the FJCs 65L tank, so I would have thought it'd have changed a lot more, but no.. Maybe this isn't a surprise to you guys and it's just me.. :biggrin:

-- Adam

[tmontague]

Tough go on all of the challenges. I wouldn't worry about the noise in your front end. Worry about the essential like your fuel trims etc and figure out the noises later so all your focus is on what needs to be fixed asap.

I've also come to realize that the 2zr swap is going to cause some noises and clunks that a stock yaris won't Have, that's the nature of putting in an engine that isn't fully designed for the chassis (although the t sport does have this engine).

I still get some loud clunk on one of turns at TMP when i accelerate out of it as well as sometimes when going in out out of the driveway. I've chalked it up to aftermarket suspension and extremely stiff spring rates plus a transmission that is shifted over in the engine bay.

Driving a car is more fun than trying to quiet it down ;)

[DarkShadowFox]

Tough go on all of the challenges. I wouldn't worry about the noise in your front end. Worry about the essential like your fuel trims etc and figure out the noises later so all your focus is on what needs to be fixed asap.

I've also come to realize that the 2zr swap is going to cause some noises and clunks that a stock yaris won't Have, that's the nature of putting in an engine that isn't fully designed for the chassis (although the t sport does have this engine).

I still get some loud clunk on one of turns at TMP when i accelerate out of it as well as sometimes when going in out out of the driveway. I've chalked it up to aftermarket suspension and extremely stiff spring rates plus a transmission that is shifted over in the engine bay.

Driving a car is more fun than trying to quiet it down ;)

maybe the clunk is your bushings.

[tmontague]

All brand new poly bushings. Not a single part of my suspension is original including ball joints

[stidnam]

Not trying to be argumentative tmontague, but Toyota did match the 2zr to the HB chassis, like you mentioned. If using all of the factory mounts and driveshafts, I wouldn't expect a single clunk or growl from the drive train. I wouldn't expect that to apply to a Vios though.

Now that may not necessarily be the fix for this problem, but it'd be something I'd keep in mind if the problem persists and you've ruled everything else out Adam.

Interesting tidbit of information - the mounts and brackets used in the new 2018 GRMN Yaris are exactly the same as the 2008 South African and New Zealand ZSP90. Looks like Toyota went and just dug through the parts bin. It should also be noted that all of those vehicles use a 6 speed transmission - 2008 models used an EC67.

Anyway I digress. Adam, I've read back through your thread and I couldn't see which drive shafts you used? Assuming the Yaris ones. Not sure what the exact differences are, but it may be also worth investigating the differences in the XD shaft lengths and whether that might also be a solution - just thinking if the 2zr rh mount has shifted the motor and box towards the left...

[DarkShadowFox]

Not trying to be argumentative tmontague, but Toyota did match the 2zr to the HB chassis, like you mentioned. If using all of the factory mounts and driveshafts, I wouldn't expect a single clunk or growl from the drive train. I wouldn't expect that to apply to a Vios though.

Now that may not necessarily be the fix for this problem, but it'd be something I'd keep in mind if the problem persists and you've ruled everything else out Adam.

Interesting tidbit of information - the mounts and brackets used in the new 2018 GRMN Yaris are exactly the same as the 2008 South African and New Zealand ZSP90. Looks like Toyota went and just dug through the parts bin. It should also be noted that all of those vehicles use a 6 speed transmission - 2008 models used an EC67.



Anyway I digress. Adam, I've read back through your thread and I couldn't see which drive shafts you used? Assuming the Yaris ones. Not sure what the exact differences are, but it may be also worth investigating the differences in the XD shaft lengths and whether that might also be a solution - just thinking if the 2zr rh mount has shifted the motor and box towards the left...

2018 GRMN uses a lotus derived motor and supercharger with some one off pieces " " but its all mostly parts bin.

[atomic_hoji]

...
Driving a car is more fun than trying to quiet it down ;)

lol - this is true. I have been daily driving the car up until I put it in the garage for a couple days to run the FPC ECU wiring and try the CV axle swap. I figured it was low hanging fruit to try the Tercel CV axle trick... apparently not. :rolleyes:

Appreciate the replies everyone. With respect to the CV axles, I am running both stock Yaris axles - good point and worth documenting. Had a search on RockAuto (because some of the manufacturers list CV sizes, so it's convenient) and yes, there are definitely differences between the xD and the Yaris. If I recall Tom's thread addressed this as well; if not elsewhere - have to go back and re-read some of the other 2ZR swap threads. But quick summary:

xD_LH = 24 29/32" & xD_RH = 35 3/4"
Yaris_LH = 25 3/4" & Yaris_RH = 35 1/4"

So, not surprisingly the xD setup is shorter on the LH side and longer on the RH side as the transmission assembly is pushed ~3/4" - 1" toward the LH side. Saying that, I was surprised that the Tercel axle, which is 24 13/16" (only 3/32" shorter than the xD length) was way too short - as in, sounded like it imploded and twisted up the CV boot as soon as the car rolled..

I have a 'tape test' going right now. While I was under I had a thorough check around and it looks like there's a paint rub spot on the notched edge of the frame on the LH side - could be bumped during the install or could be the transmission bumping the frame on corners. Figure it's worth a check.

As Trevor noted, the air-fuel ratio problem that's causing the CEL/MIL on is the bigger issue. With respect to trying the AFR sensor - I have been defeated by the sensor.. :redface: I tried to pop the one from the 2ZR out and just can't generate enough oomph to break it loose. Sometime this week I'll see if I can borrow the hoist in a friend's shop and have another go. I did check it against the workshop manual numbers with the multi-meter and it is still good.. getting battery voltage less 0.2V on the supply side too. Would like to inspect it and see if there's anything visually wrong with it - soot, corrosion, etc..

-- Adam

[tmontague]

Not trying to be argumentative tmontague, but Toyota did match the 2zr to the HB chassis, like you mentioned. If using all of the factory mounts and driveshafts, I wouldn't expect a single clunk or growl from the drive train. I wouldn't expect that to apply to a Vios though.

Now that may not necessarily be the fix for this problem, but it'd be something I'd keep in mind if the problem persists and you've ruled everything else out Adam.

Interesting tidbit of information - the mounts and brackets used in the new 2018 GRMN Yaris are exactly the same as the 2008 South African and New Zealand ZSP90. Looks like Toyota went and just dug through the parts bin. It should also be noted that all of those vehicles use a 6 speed transmission - 2008 models used an EC67.

Anyway I digress. Adam, I've read back through your thread and I couldn't see which drive shafts you used? Assuming the Yaris ones. Not sure what the exact differences are, but it may be also worth investigating the differences in the XD shaft lengths and whether that might also be a solution - just thinking if the 2zr rh mount has shifted the motor and box towards the left...

I agree w/ you but all of us 2zr swaps hb or sedan have originally kept yaris axles. If the swap was to be done totally to factory spec in a HB then yes I would expect it to be silent. With the mix and match to keep costs down that most of us have, noises are inevitable. Plus most who have done the swap are racing their cars and have other modifications in it either transmission gears/lsd or engine mounts which leads to all kinds of fun nvh that factory spec won't leave you with.

At this point I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the fuel trims level out as that is the main issue currently. Unfortunately I'm not much help as this is out of my wheel house in regards to what it could be

[atomic_hoji]

So, no such luck on the AFR sensor. Swapped the Yaris' 1NZ sensor in and it didn't change the behaviour - now, the Yaris does use a different part number, but same electrical checks, 4-wire, etc.. and the car ran the same using it. I cleaned the 2ZR sensor by soaking it in gas for several hours and wiping clean - it was pretty clean when I pulled it anyway, but I thought while it was out I'd do it for good measure.

What I did find after I swapped the 1NZ AFR sensor is that when I went to clear the codes there is now a MAF code as well for 'MAF sensor circuit out of expected range' or similar; I'll have to check the OBD2 code, but I think it's P0101. This is new since installing the FPC ECU.

I did also find that the LTFT is better than it was before. The test drive I did after installing the FPC ECU sets the LTFT at -27% (this was before playing with the AFR sensors at all, but after installing FPC ECU) instead of the almost -40% worst case that I had seen prior; loaded the old data and it was fugly, lol. So I think the FPC ECU has helped, but then it's hard to say given there's clearly some other problem.

In a quick read on the P0101 code, apparently the MAF can get tripped up reporting air flow if the signal is noisy from nearby, high current wires. Since I've checked and double-checked the wiring supplying the MAF, I tried a shielding wire quickly - a grounded wire wrapped around - with no change. But, the MAF is basically snuggy-bunny with the main ECM, so going to have to try to rig up a test where I can move the ECM well away from the MAF and see if that helps. The other thing is the OBD2 code does point to a MAF problem, which I boggles me because it's a brand new MAF and electrically checks out when doing the troubleshooting checks. Thinking that maybe mixing the xD 2ZR-FE intake with a 2ZR-FAE iM MAF could cause an issue?! :confused: If the calibration assumes a larger intake diameter, so it's reporting X g/s air flow, but in reality with the smaller intake only X-- air is getting in, so it runs rich and the ECM adjusts ST/LTFTs to accommodate ...? Also going to look at the injectors as a last check - they're pink, like they're supposed to be, but who knows, maybe the iM owner had bigger injectors installed?! I can't read the injector numbers while they're in place, so I figure as a last resort I'll confirm the numbers and make sure they match the model injectors.

So more troubleshooting to do.. Generally it drives ok. Misbehaves some at idle and is rough when shutdown; like shutting a diesel off, lol. Since installing the FPC ECU I have found it's touchy when dropping throttle from accelerating; e.g. pulling into traffic and accelerating up to speed quickly, then shifting and letting off the throttle to cruise the revs 'wobble' and rock the engine around on the mounts.. like stabbing at the throttle. Not sure if the FPC ECU change is related or if it's whatever else is causing the fuel issues worsening.

I feel like when I figure this out the AH-HA moment I will feel both relieved and like a dumb-ass - it feels like it's going to be one of those simple things.. :rolleyes:

-- Adam

[atomic_hoji]

SO, another quick update - fortunately someone jogged me as I've been busy with plant shutdown at work, kids back to school, back to shift work (rotating days/nights) etc.. etc.. and realized it's been forever since I've jumped on to YW.

SUCCESS! Somewhat.. :biggrin:

My 'stick-tape-everywhere-that-could-be-rubbing' test found the issue, which in hindsight I can't believe I didn't find earlier, but in my defense it's really hard to see down in there. I happened to stick my hand in around between the front side of the engine and the frame-side body mount and noticed it's really close - when looking from above it's blocked by the cover on the frame mount and underneath there's a ton on pulleys and A/C piping in the way.. Sure enough, tape test revealed rubbing. Supported the engine, dropped the engine mount, frame mount, and pulled the engine bracket off. Using a grinder clearanced it about a 1/4", painted, and re-installed - voila, no more left-hand turn vibration! I took a picture of the brackets, showing there wear marks, but then got excited and re-installed without showing the mod.. whoops.

Take away: if you do the 2ZR swap in a 3rd gen. HB and find you have a left-hand turn growl/vibration, trying gaining some clearance by modifying the engine bracket with a grinder by about 1/4" along the outer rib - runs between the top 2 bolts.

Also played with some ideas on the intake side of things which supported my suspicion about the mixing xD intake with iM MAF. I ordered and (finally) received an AEM Scion/Corolla iM short-ram intake kit, installed it, and the P0101 and P0172 codes are now gone. When monitoring the LTFT it is sill quite low, but resolved enough that it's not tripping up the ECM and throwing a code anymore. In going for a ride with a buddy in his new Tacoma, we found that general, daily type driving he sits around -7 to -10 LTFT on his 2GR V6, BUT at start-up the learned value remains approx. 0 for both. Seems like Toyota's run a bit negative LTFT while driving around normally. Might try my FJC next time I'm out and get another sample...

Maybe it seems obvious, but a combination of using the Fuel Pump Control ECU and installing an iM intake has adjusted the LTFT to the point where it no longer throws a code - or, in other words, install the stuff the ECM is expecting and it works. lol

As a side note, and good to document, this came about because I was focused on using the Scion xD parts for the swap - the xD parts work for a lot of things, especially on the 2nd. gen swaps. For this -FAE swap from the iM, the mechanical parts, e.g. engine mounts, heater & rad. hoses, etc.. the xD parts work, however where the electrical bits are concerned, e.g. MAF, the differences cause the iM ECM issues. Using the MAF example, fit the same and has the same electrical connections, but do not work the same, and even though the intake piping is a mechanical piece, since it supports the MAF it also needs to meet iM spec, not the xD - mix and match == bad. :biggrin:

***

Other general, on-going things I've been finding with the swap:

The throttle is extremely touchy; it's not that I needed to get used to it, it's spaztastic in the first 10-20% (ish?) of travel.. lol. And it still has some fuelling related problems - idles rough, nearly stalls for the first split second until fuel picks up when accelerating (like a delayed response) so I use more throttle when starting than I did with the 1NZ (or in any manual car I've driven), and shudders at shutdown. Basically same issues as above, excepting that I found the weird 'stabbing' on the throttle issue is user error.. apparently if your big-ass, clompy safety shoes remain on said touchy pedal and you don't notice it will cause issue - I found my days off it was fine (sandals) then had the issue when I went in to work the next set of nights... two and two together = oooohh... dum-dum. :rolleyes:

I hate (I mean vehemently hate) my exahust setup, and want to change it. Given the Corolla / iM uses an approx 2" exhaust, and the performance setups at 2.25", I won't be surprised if replacing the 1.75" xD/Yaris-with-crappy-bends-making-it-more-like-1.5"-in-some-places setup helps dramatically improve the remaining issues.

Progress.. Slowly working down the little issues here and there. That said, I do daily it to and from work without issue (except the exhaust rattling, which is just annoying as F*). We did a couple hour trip in it and, less needing the A/C recharged still (d'oh!), it ran a treat. Tracked fuel economy now that it seems to be having less LTFT issues and found on a trip of ~200 kms, driving mostly rural roads ~90kph it was sitting at 8.2 L/100km or ~28 MPG(US).

Take care,
-- Adam

[stidnam]

Great update and glad to hear you've ironed out those bigger issues. Bet that's a good feeling :)

I suspect that the Yaris gearbox mounts and mounting points aren't providing enough space for the 2zr to bolt to the gearbox and clear the frame. Just out of interest, was there a little lateral tension on that engine mount when you unbolted it?

Good to know about the need to keep things matching up :)

Interesting on the throttle point as well. I actually find the stock Yaris throttle in the first 10 to 20% to give me no throttle, which to me is not what I'm expecting coming from a car with a cable operated throttle. I'd welcome a linear throttle that mapped 1:1 what my foot was doing! Speaking of gas pedals, the pedal is damn aweful as well but I've been eyeing off a replacement option from another Toyota that should make heal toe a little easier.

[tmontague]

Great to hear you are figuring out the issues!
Fwiw- my 1nz and now 2zr all sit around -10 to 12 % LTFT. This has never caused any issue in my engine and it runs fine so as long as you are not getting a CEL then I'd just leave it as is.

Toyota throttle by wire system is very light and not very refined. I just outright stopped driving my car with my winter boots on as it became ridiculous.

Enjoy driving your unique car and congrats on what you've done!

[atomic_hoji]

Thanks for the positive feedback guys... it is nice having a peppy, reliable ('ish?!) daily driver. Does also mean the FJC's time in the driveway is coming to an end.. :cry:

...
I suspect that the Yaris gearbox mounts and mounting points aren't providing enough space for the 2zr to bolt to the gearbox and clear the frame. Just out of interest, was there a little lateral tension on that engine mount when you unbolted it?
...


It is definitely pushing hard into the LHS (transmission) mount, and required a lot of 'persuasion' when I had to get the RHS mounts installed and back into place. I knew that was going to happen from the effort required when it went in the first time. Optimally, I would like to pull the trans. side mount, dig out the rubber and re-position the steel tube for the bolt offset, then pour polyurethane to make a DIY mount that holds it tight toward the LHS better. I'll add it to the projects list... :biggrin:

Great to hear you are figuring out the issues!
Fwiw- my 1nz and now 2zr all sit around -10 to 12 % LTFT. This has never caused any issue in my engine and it runs fine so as long as you are not getting a CEL then I'd just leave it as is.

Toyota throttle by wire system is very light and not very refined. I just outright stopped driving my car with my winter boots on as it became ridiculous.
...


I recall you saying that and thought about it when I was going for a ride in the Tacoma. Curious to see if the FJC also does it, but looks like that's well within' the norm. Driving around into town last I was sitting -15 to -17% LTFT, dropping into the -24% range, so I suspect it's still not perfect, but as you said, no CEL/MIL is a win for daily driveability.

LOL, I'm now slightly more worried that winter is coming soon.. jk'ing - but, have to see how I manage in work boots.

-- Adam

[atomic_hoji]

SO ... LTFT is back to -35% or so and CEL/MIL is on again ... :mad:

I was under the hood and realized in doing troubleshooting I'd disconnected the PCV vent from the valve cover to the air intake... so I diligently reconnected it and blammo, back to the same old problem.

Since the PCV seems to be directly impacting the LTFT I decided to pull the intake manifold and check the PCV valve - turns out it works fine, but not a big waste as I figure I'll install the catch can I bought.. BUT, the intake has quite a bit of oil and a stanky smell. The oil has a couple thousand kilometers on it, but I decided to change it anyway to see how it was doing - the engine did sit at the wrecker for who knows how long. Oil is 0W20 and was warm, but came out very thin, nearly like water, is very dark, almost black, and stinks god awful - same smell as in the intake manifold.. I've smelled gas in oil before - reasonably recently when a friend's bike carb was flooding and dumping gas into the oil - this isn't quite the same, and the same friend dropped over and didn't think it was quite the same either.. The smell is nasty though, almost like exhaust gases or the oil being burnt..? :confused:

Not really sure what's up with this stubborn thing... borrowed a compression tester from a friend to do due diligence and make sure I don't have bad rings, but given it only has a few thousand kilometers on it I wouldn't have thought rings would be suspect.. That said, I did have the oops with leaving the exhaust manifold taped and starting the engine - made a good bang, scared myself stupid.. lol - but I wouldn't have imagined that could have blown a piston ring.. ?? :eek:

Open to other ideas re: sources of super stinky oil and would be causing combustion to be too rich...

-- Adam

[ArmstrongRacing]

I've replaced many PCV valves due to vehicles running lean before, its not uncommon.

The only way I found that was the issue is by 1) doing smoke test on the manifold and found ZERO leaks. 2)replaced A/F sensor due to a rapid fluctuation between 0 and -30% STFT. 3)After that the LTFT was staying around -17%. 4)Thats when I replaced the PCV valve and the LTFT dropped down to 8-10%

What are the codes youre getting and hows it run?

[atomic_hoji]

Hey Tom, thanks for the note! The code I'm squabbling with is P0172 System to Rich, which jives with the way negative LTFT. For general driving it seems alright, has a bit of a howl/vibration when I left off throttle and coast, but the only real nuisance is a terrible idle - it's very rough, has a lot of vibration, and shudders; which I assume is the ECM pulling so much fuel trim that it's wanting to stall (never has though..).

For the small cost of a PCV valve I may just give replacing it a try too, just to rule it out.

After I had pulled the intake I did a little driving around with the emissions disconnected at the air intake - so disconnected the PCV to the intake manifold, the valve cover vent, and the fuel purge at the throttle body and taped them all off. When I compare the plots for AFR, STFT, LTFT it doesn't appeared to have made much if any difference, which seems to bust my theory that it's pulling oil or fuel vapour into the intake and causing the ECM to pull fuel trim.

I did find that there seems to be a correlation between the AFR sensor going way lean when the purge solenoid operation. Originally I had thought about fuel vapour getting into the air intake and when the solenoid closed it stopped adding it, so it leaned out and fuel trim had to adjust. Now, after trying the line disconnected, I'm wondering if there's an electrical noise issue where the solenoid energizing / de-energizing is tripping up the AFR sensor.. Just a quick theory, but haven't chased it.

The other obvious culprit with a fuel problem could be the injectors dripping/leaking. I haven't had the time to pop them out and give them a check, but hoping to get at it soon; unfortunately available time is getting less and less, not better..

I did do a compression test last weekend (or one prior..?) and it was solid numbers across all cylinders; good pressure, consistent across cylinders, and held steady.. Not surprisingly I don't think there's a mechanical problem with such a new engine, but was worth a check - and a huge p.i.t.a to get at those spark plugs and get a tester hooked up. lol

Thanks as always for the help!
-- Adam

[ArmstrongRacing]

It seems you’ve done the right steps in eliminating possible issues. The odds are low that an injection is the issue, but have you checked the MAF signal at all? It should gradually rise with the RPM, and spike pretty high when you stab the throttle.

I remember you saying something about a different fuel pump control strategy on the IM right?

[atomic_hoji]

Thanks for the feedback Tom! I agree, it seems unlikely the injectors are an issue, was thinking it would rule them out at least - the engine did sit at a wrecker for about a year with the fuel line crimped and no idea if it was drained properly, I figured maybe ethanol gunk stuck in one of more injectors.

After I replaced the MAF and intake with iM models vs. xD and the MAF related codes went away I'd been ruling out MAF problems and basically ignoring it to chase other things. BUT, you bring a good point - I've been so focused on trending the LTFT and AFR, but I haven't included the MAF signal to see how it's responding! I'll have to play with the data I had collected already and plot it again with the MAF signal. And, definitely worth running it through the rpm range as you suggest to see if it's even behaving as it should.

The iM does run a Fuel Pump Control ECU like the 2014+ Corolla and a number of other newer Toyota's do; except the Yaris, which is out-dated... which is also great because it's simple! lol I have wired an iM FPC ECU in and it seems to respond as it should, which is basically demand 70% fuel pump duty unless you go full throttle, then it bumps up to 100% fuel pump duty.

I'll have a try at a couple of things as you suggested before I go and start yanking injectors.. :biggrin:

Thanks as always for the help!
-- Adam

[ArmstrongRacing]

So do you have a xD intake that your not using any more? I may be interested in that

[atomic_hoji]

I do actually.. I did modify it to fit the 3rd Gen. as it doesn't fit under the headlight like on the xD. When I'm home tonight I'll have a dig around and see if I can get you a picture of what I've got. I'll PM you tonight.

I did also have a look back through some data and did a few 2nd to 3rd gear pulls at different loads; well, wife drove while I data logged. The MAF responds linearly with revs, but when you throw the clutch in the MAF tanks and everything goes squirrelly from there.. And some random squirrelly stuff here and there with the AFR - which I did run a known working AFR sensor with the same results. I started plotting other things, like VALVMATIC angles as the Lift has a huge impact on air, but don't know what's normal on there or abnormal - I did notice VALVMATIC Target angle is never populated.. always reads 0. wondering if it has an issue and when load drops it's dropping Lift, reducing air flow, and the system goes squirrelly from there..

Just thinking out loud..

-- Adam

[atomic_hoji]

Since I can't figure out how to stash the picture somewhere without making it super tiny...

-- Adam
60008

[ArmstrongRacing]

#6

[atomic_hoji]

Quick update: been busy busy with studying for work, but after the last test I took the weekend off to kickback, relax, and actually did a bit of work on the Yaris. Unfortunately, I think the brain marbles as to the troubleshooting I've done on the Yaris have been displaced by studying. :rolleyes:

I followed Tom's advice and had a run through the MAF response. Took the car out with my wife driving and had her pull through gears gently, then progressively using more throttle up to basically flooring it in 1st, through 2nd and 3rd. MAF seems to respond as expected. Do find that the values are a little high as compared to the service manual (not surprising there's extra air given the negative fuel trim) but then my idle is a bit on the high side anyway - more on a related, new issue in a minute.. :face palm:

Using my fancy little jig I also cleaned the injectors with carb cleaner, just for the sake of due diligence. It didn't help, but it's done, and it's the first time I've tried it so it was an educational experience, lol.

In a prior job I was a Control Tech and in flow measuring applications where you had short pipe runs and turbulence we would install flow straighteners to help stabilize the flow readings. There are the same sorts of things for automotive intakes - some manufacturers actually use a rough sort of straightener in their intakes. I installed a piece of door screen across the end of the intake (held by the filter clamp) and it brought the LTFT down into the -20% to -26% region - the car will go for a couple of days before the codes pop back on now; PROGRESS! :thumbup: I've ordered an actual flow straightener to fit my intake and I'll have to see if it helps. Also ordered a used, OEM MAF from eBay - I still have a dis-trust of this aftermarket MAF and the used OEM was actually cheaper than what I paid for the aftermarket! Have a couple of other ideas related to airflow as well that I'll keep in my back pocket..

Anyhow, new issue: after clearing the learned values and resetting everything after messing about with the car I now have a revving problem. I've read the Scion iMs have a "rev-hang" issue between shifts, but that's not quite the issue.. When I put the clutch in the revs drop, then bounce up to about 3000 rpm and sit there for about 2-3s, then drop off. I have to stop at a guardhouse on my way in to work and I get looked at funny as to why I'm sitting revving my engine - I'm just waiting to get hauled aside.. lol Now, the embarrassing part: this could be something to do with the injector cleaning or the screen on the air intake (not too bad); it could be because I kicked my ECM across the garage floor on accident (dammit!); or it could be because I disconnected my throttle body while powered (the clue should have been that it was making an electrical whine.. :face palm:)

Ever have one of those days..? lol

OH, on a much better note, I did get my microimage engine bay short shift kit installed. Fits great, and I can now install the block heater as an added bonus. Transmission is nice and notchy now; because #racecar! :biggrin:

-- Adam

[06YarisRS]

Ever have one of those days..? lol

Yup, many of them.

And, I too unplugged my MAF while powered. I heard the "whine". No adverse effects as of yet.

My chance to offer encouragement in return. Keep goooooooing! Can't wait to witness the end result. It will be legendary!

[atomic_hoji]

lol, thanks man. A dash clear of warning lights will feel pretty good. :biggrin:

I didn't mention, but is a nicety, that I finally re-installed my trim pieces; center console, windscreen bits, etc.. so it looks like a complete car again and no a ghetto-mobile as my wife has referred to it. lol

-- Adam

[ArmstrongRacing]

I’d still say that -20% is still going to eventually result in a rich condition fault. Let’s see how it goes though, I’m inexperienced with the valvematic fuel mapping

[atomic_hoji]

For reference / interest, this is the setup I used to the clean the injectors. Installed a piece of tygon hose onto the injector at one end, sprayed carb cleaner fluid into the tygon, then put an air attachment on the other end. Secured with hose clamps. It uses the air to pressurize the setup to 10-15 psi; fuel pressure is ~50psi or so, so no issue for injector, but I didn't trust the hose clamps to go too high.. lol

To fire the injectors I had a couple of wires attached to my 12V powersports battery from my ATV for power (not shown). While I held the injector assembly, I had my wife hold the negative on one terminal and rapidly tap the positive on the other terminal. Did this until the injector was clear of fluid. Carb cleaner stinks - do this in a well ventilated area!

Spray patterns looked decent when we were doing it; because of the tip installed on the injector there are two distinct injection sprays - one to each intake port.

-- Adam

60073

[atomic_hoji]

I’d still say that -20% is still going to eventually result in a rich condition fault. Let’s see how it goes though, I’m inexperienced with the valvematic fuel mapping

Without looking it up, I believe you're right - beyond +/- 15% LTFT rings a bell for being considered abnormal. I'll see how these changes work and if it brings the LTFT value down further having a proper airflow straightener installed vs. door screen. Still waiting on my OEM MAF to arrive too. Fingers crossed.

I does sit in the back of my mind whether or not using a regular VVTi would have caused the same issues and/or been easier to troubleshoot. There really isn't a ton of information out there on Valvematic even though it's been around for a while. But, now I know for next time.. :biggrin:

-- Adam

[06YarisRS]

Home cleaning of injectors = very cool. :thumbsup:

[tmontague]

For reference / interest, this is the setup I used to the clean the injectors. Installed a piece of tygon hose onto the injector at one end, sprayed carb cleaner fluid into the tygon, then put an air attachment on the other end. Secured with hose clamps. It uses the air to pressurize the setup to 10-15 psi; fuel pressure is ~50psi or so, so no issue for injector, but I didn't trust the hose clamps to go too high.. lol

To fire the injectors I had a couple of wires attached to my 12V powersports battery from my ATV for power (not shown). While I held the injector assembly, I had my wife hold the negative on one terminal and rapidly tap the positive on the other terminal. Did this until the injector was clear of fluid. Carb cleaner stinks - do this in a well ventilated area!

Spray patterns looked decent when we were doing it; because of the tip installed on the injector there are two distinct injection sprays - one to each intake port.

-- Adam

60073

Nice set up for the injectors:thumbsup:

[DarkShadowFox]

how much HP is this swap good for stock again.

[atomic_hoji]

Home cleaning of injectors = very cool. :thumbsup:
Nice set up for the injectors:thumbsup:

Thanks guys. I've seen a bunch of videos on YouTube where people use the pressure from the carb cleaner can and it seems to work ok. I just figured a steady air pressure set by a PRV on the fluid would push the cleaner through as well or (hopefully) a bit better. Still not a professional cleaning and calibration by any means, but it was a good run to see if there was any injectors with poor spray patterns, streams, etc..

how much HP is this swap good for stock again.

2016 Scion iM literature calls the 2ZR-FAE 137 hp and 126 ft-lb at the crank - vs. 1NZ-FE 106 hp and 103 ft-lb at the crank. Yields an increase of 29% hp and 22% torque. As I've noted before, it's not #zomgihaveasportzcar fast, but it's noticeably quicker and makes the power differently than the 1NZ-FE. I keep it well under 100 mph. :wink:

-- Adam

[DarkShadowFox]

Thanks guys. I've seen a bunch of videos on YouTube where people use the pressure from the carb cleaner can and it seems to work ok. I just figured a steady air pressure set by a PRV on the fluid would push the cleaner through as well or (hopefully) a bit better. Still not a professional cleaning and calibration by any means, but it was a good run to see if there was any injectors with poor spray patterns, streams, etc..



2016 Scion iM literature calls the 2ZR-FAE 137 hp and 126 ft-lb at the crank - vs. 1NZ-FE 106 hp and 103 ft-lb at the crank. Yields an increase of 29% hp and 22% torque. As I've noted before, it's not #zomgihaveasportzcar fast, but it's noticeably quicker and makes the power differently than the 1NZ-FE. I keep it well under 100 mph. :wink:

-- Adam


i think i will use the LE eco corolla because it has 140 hp

[atomic_hoji]

i think i will use the LE eco corolla because it has 140 hp

My recollection is that the Corolla LE ECO only came with a CVT; I could be wrong if you look back to earlier years though.. If that suits what you want then you're aces - and may have the first CVT swapped Yaris? However, if you want to run with the Yaris AT or MT then you will run into difficulties. Pulling the engine from a Corolla LE ECO will get you a 2ZR-FAE, but just mind the fact that you'll need an iM (or other -FAE based) ECM to run stock with the AT or MT transmissions.

Of course, if you're mixing and matching engines and transmissions and not using a stock setup then you're well out of my league and diving into new territory. :thumbsup:

-- Adam

[DarkShadowFox]

My recollection is that the Corolla LE ECO only came with a CVT; I could be wrong if you look back to earlier years though.. If that suits what you want then you're aces - and may have the first CVT swapped Yaris? However, if you want to run with the Yaris AT or MT then you will run into difficulties. Pulling the engine from a Corolla LE ECO will get you a 2ZR-FAE, but just mind the fact that you'll need an iM (or other -FAE based) ECM to run stock with the AT or MT transmissions.

Of course, if you're mixing and matching engines and transmissions and not using a stock setup then you're well out of my league and diving into new territory. :thumbsup:

-- Adam

the 4AT is much stronger then the CVT why i wanted to use it, and i wanted the extra hp the torque numbers look absymal though on both vehicles both motors for these cars run for under 1000$ so this might be the next budget swap when working with the 3rd gens. #corollacru

Edit: Do the scion IM gauges fit on this car those are looking very similar to a certain model that was released in europe, minus the auris hybrid face.

edit 2: might have to just bite the bullet for now to get better performance after seeing this thread and seeing how cheap they are, i wanted an AWD turbo motor but theres no sense in going for more HP if its unusable and will cost more weight, the lighter engine from the IM will offset the small gain in HP.

[atomic_hoji]

the 4AT is much stronger then the CVT why i wanted to use it,
...
Edit: Do the scion IM gauges fit on this car those are looking very similar to a certain model that was released in europe, minus the auris hybrid face.
...
edit 2: might have to just bite the bullet for now to get better performance after seeing this thread and seeing how cheap they are, i wanted an AWD ...

If you're going to use the AT from the Yaris then I think you're best bet is an iM ECM; definitely have a look into it. Not sure about the gauges, I use the Yaris gauge cluster. Not sure there's an AWD drivetrain that mates to a ZR engine, that's new territory.

Update on the LTFT: I installed the airflow straightener this afternoon and went for a drive. It looked like the LTFT was getting better as it seemed to float around -17% or so, sometimes getting better, occasionally dropping into the -20s%. I reset the learned values and drove it home from in town... and... it's... -36% again. Poop. So either it was working, and then honking on it flung it into the intake and it's stuck in there against the MAF or throttle body (uh-oh!) or it's not working at all - in fact the door screen actually seemed better at that point, lol.

Still waiting on the OEM MAF to arrive.. fingers crossed.

-- Adam

[DarkShadowFox]

If you're going to use the AT from the Yaris then I think you're best bet is an iM ECM; definitely have a look into it. Not sure about the gauges, I use the Yaris gauge cluster. Not sure there's an AWD drivetrain that mates to a ZR engine, that's new territory.

Update on the LTFT: I installed the airflow straightener this afternoon and went for a drive. It looked like the LTFT was getting better as it seemed to float around -17% or so, sometimes getting better, occasionally dropping into the -20s%. I reset the learned values and drove it home from in town... and... it's... -36% again. Poop. So either it was working, and then honking on it flung it into the intake and it's stuck in there against the MAF or throttle body (uh-oh!) or it's not working at all - in fact the door screen actually seemed better at that point, lol.

Still waiting on the OEM MAF to arrive.. fingers crossed.

-- Adam

japans auris aka scion IM 2011(huurp i think)-2017 model years gets 4wd optional, what wont the japanese put 4wd on

ITS A BED IT HAS 4wd !!!11111

edit the gauges i am thinking of is a 2017 Sport plus gauge cluster face on an IM Frame.

[atomic_hoji]

japans auris aka scion IM 2011(huurp i think)-2017 model years gets 4wd optional, what wont the japanese put 4wd on
...

Well that might give you your cake and let you eat it too. :thumbsup:

--

Regarding the on-going fuel issues - GOOD news... for people who like... GOOD NEWS (for a change). :biggrin:

After the flow straightener seemed to not do too much, I received my used OEM MAF in the mail on Monday and popped it in, reset learned values, etc.. I did a quick run and it seemed to be happier - but then I've thought that before. Over the past week I have seen squat for CEL/MIL and a run into town last night to get gas I found LTFT is both more stable (less variation) and slightly positive (+6% to +8%). I think I can officially say it's a successful 2ZR-FAE swap now. :thumbup:

After all the reading, troubleshooting, checking and double-checking, the problem was an aftermarket - brand new, popular aftermarket brand - MAF that did actually meet the service manual checks, but apparently is calibrated incorrectly or functionally can't meet the specs of the OEM unit. The real kick in the pants is that although I had looked briefly at the time I bought the new MAF, I found this used OEM unit for about half the price too! :rolleyes: In this case, the internet is right - pop for an OEM unit, it's really worth it. Too late to return the aftermarket unit, but I've requested a warranty replacement with the hopes that I'll get one that works and can keep it as a backup or sell it.

Never-the-less.. car seems happy. It's funny, it ran noticeably different after changing the MAF - different idle sound and feel. Of course, because fuelling is different and it wasn't revving as much I found myself having to avoid stalling it for the first couple of days, lol - the only upside before replacement, the kick-up in idle revs made it ready for go time off each stop! :laugh: But, over the week the stupid high revs at idle sorted itself and it hasn't done that in a couple of days either.

Other than a few wiring tidy-up things, the only additional improvement regarding daily driving for the car would be to find a 2017+ Corolla iM that includes TSS-C so the pre-collision system will stop complaining; the ECM has no idea what's talking to it, so it causes issues with the VSC/TRAC - which is actually disabled when a CEL/MIL comes on, so the MAF issue fixed gives VSC/TRAC back now too.

Thanks again to everyone who has helped and/ore encouraged through the whole swap process, the support here is awesome and hugely appreciated. :w00t:

-- Adam

[tmontague]

:eek::thumbup: DUUUDE this is great news, really happy you were able to figure out the issue and although you're probably banging your head against the wall, I'm sure you're glad that it was something so simple and not more compliacted.

Enjoy the new whip. We have to get everyone together this summer who's somewhat local in the GTA or who can make the drive and meet at a track or soemthing.

[ArmstrongRacing]

Well I can’t say I’m surprised, diagnosing a MAF is usually a shot in the dark. I believe we discussed this earlier in the thread, and last year I wrote up a blog on how tricky MAF’s can be. They show good voltage and a clean signal, but still causes issues. Little bastards...

[DarkShadowFox]

when it comes to MAF unlesss your going to be running a standalone like haltech or something always run the OEM maf and run a piggyback.

[DarkShadowFox]

Well that might give you your cake and let you eat it too. :thumbsup:

--

Regarding the on-going fuel issues - GOOD news... for people who like... GOOD NEWS (for a change). :biggrin:

After the flow straightener seemed to not do too much, I received my used OEM MAF in the mail on Monday and popped it in, reset learned values, etc.. I did a quick run and it seemed to be happier - but then I've thought that before. Over the past week I have seen squat for CEL/MIL and a run into town last night to get gas I found LTFT is both more stable (less variation) and slightly positive (+6% to +8%). I think I can officially say it's a successful 2ZR-FAE swap now. :thumbup:

After all the reading, troubleshooting, checking and double-checking, the problem was an aftermarket - brand new, popular aftermarket brand - MAF that did actually meet the service manual checks, but apparently is calibrated incorrectly or functionally can't meet the specs of the OEM unit. The real kick in the pants is that although I had looked briefly at the time I bought the new MAF, I found this used OEM unit for about half the price too! :rolleyes: In this case, the internet is right - pop for an OEM unit, it's really worth it. Too late to return the aftermarket unit, but I've requested a warranty replacement with the hopes that I'll get one that works and can keep it as a backup or sell it.

Never-the-less.. car seems happy. It's funny, it ran noticeably different after changing the MAF - different idle sound and feel. Of course, because fuelling is different and it wasn't revving as much I found myself having to avoid stalling it for the first couple of days, lol - the only upside before replacement, the kick-up in idle revs made it ready for go time off each stop! :laugh: But, over the week the stupid high revs at idle sorted itself and it hasn't done that in a couple of days either.

Other than a few wiring tidy-up things, the only additional improvement regarding daily driving for the car would be to find a 2017+ Corolla iM that includes TSS-C so the pre-collision system will stop complaining; the ECM has no idea what's talking to it, so it causes issues with the VSC/TRAC - which is actually disabled when a CEL/MIL comes on, so the MAF issue fixed gives VSC/TRAC back now too.

Thanks again to everyone who has helped and/ore encouraged through the whole swap process, the support here is awesome and hugely appreciated. :w00t:

-- Adam

https://parts.camelbacktoyota.com/parts/2017/Toyota/Corolla%20iM/index.cfm?siteid=214329

https://jp-carparts.com/toyota/carlist.php?maker=toyota

[06YarisRS]

Congrats, Adam!!! Such awesome news! :thumbup:

[DarkShadowFox]

you know i forgot to ask, which gauge cluster did you use in the yaris and how did you fit it?

[atomic_hoji]

:eek::thumbup: DUUUDE this is great news, really happy you were able to figure out the issue and although you're probably banging your head against the wall, I'm sure you're glad that it was something so simple and not more compliacted.

Enjoy the new whip. We have to get everyone together this summer who's somewhat local in the GTA or who can make the drive and meet at a track or soemthing.

Yes, yes I am - the blessing that it was simple, the curse that it was something I overlooked for too long.. lol

A meet and/or track day would be great. Wasn't able to make it down this summer, but hoping 2019 should be better - at least early in the summer is looking more likely. Either way, looking forward to getting down to meet up with some of the GTA and area YW folks. :w00t:

Well I can’t say I’m surprised, diagnosing a MAF is usually a shot in the dark. I believe we discussed this earlier in the thread, and last year I wrote up a blog on how tricky MAF’s can be. They show good voltage and a clean signal, but still causes issues. Little bastards...

Ya, I recall you suggesting it and really thought I had done due diligence to test the damn thing; it really looked like it was responding, etc.. But, as you say, the little bastards are fickle beasts..

Congrats, Adam!!! Such awesome news! :thumbup:

Thanks buddy! :thumbsup:

you know i forgot to ask, which gauge cluster did you use in the yaris and how did you fit it?

No change in gauge cluster, everything works with the stock 3rd. gen cluster; I do have an SE if that makes a difference on the dash - I haven't seen an LE to know if it's the same.

-- Adam

[DarkShadowFox]

so in terms of the steering rack and subframe and assorted components how does all of this entire thing assemble into a third gen. can i get more detailed pictures, i have my entire GSIC for my yaris i just like to see the handiwork.

[atomic_hoji]

No changes to the steering rack, subframe or anything else under there. You need to the RH engine mount from the Scion xD - both frame side mount and engine bracket - but the dogbone and LH trans mounts from the Yaris work. Some careful movements and serious grunt and that gets the engine into the engine bay. Should find it's documented briefly here, and in more detail in one of the 2nd gen. swap threads.

I didn't take any pictures of subframe, etc.. because there were no changes needed - 1NZ out, 2ZR in with the xD mounts.

-- Adam

[logoris]

fantastic build, glad it all worked out.

It gives me some hope for mine once its paid off.

Id certainly like to meet the yw people in the gta