Oxidation/rust of engine parts in 2017 Yaris

[jowii]

Hello everybody! This is my first post here. Hoping to become a Yaris owner :smile: I hope this is the correct place to post this.

I am looking to buy a used 2017 Toyota Yaris Hatchback from Hertz.

I plan to take it to a mechanic as soon as I can before I decide to buy, but hoping to possibly clear my mind of some worry in the meantime (trying to remain optimistic because I really like this car). It has a few miles left on the basic warranty and 20 thousand or so left on the powertrain warranty.

I found what I consider to be an unusual amount of rust under the hood for a two year old car (images attached). They regularly maintain these vehicles, so I would think that if there was a huge concern, they would have addressed it...? You can't pop open the hood to do anything and not see it. Although I would think that clearing rust is something important to maintaining the vehicle as well.

The car otherwise runs really well and is in great shape. I won't be able to get a really good look at the undercarriage until I have a mechanic lift it. I know some metal parts can oxidize very easily with any amount of moisture and/or salt. Also this car originated from the northeast US...

I'm hoping that this is a sign of some parts that oxidize easily and not a sign of something worse. Parts towards the bottom of the engine bay don't seem to be rusted at all (from what I can see), it's more towards the top. Could this just be normal reaction to driving in coastal areas, humid areas, salt treated streets, etc.? Maybe someone let a little moisture get in with the hood open and that was enough?

Aside from letting moisture directly in, does enough moisture, such as driving in heavy rain or behind a traffic on the interstate, get in through the grille or bottom to cause this? Mostly, I guess I'm looking for answers that this may be caused by less severe things than driving through high water...

Thanks in advance! I'm hoping this turns out to be a non-issue and just needs a good cleaning. And I'm looking forward to becoming a Yaris owner and hanging out here. Looks like you all have a great community :smile:

[06YarisRS]

It's interesting that there's that much corrosion on the motor mount specifically. My formerly rust belt driven '06 is anywhere near that rusty, nor is my currently winter driven '08. I do rustproof everything but these cars were both close to 10 years old when I bought them. The rear battery bracket retainer and hood latch assembly seem abnormally rusty too. I have seen some newer cars with similar rust and I think it's possible that there there a inconsistencies in paint quality and paint application by the supplier of parts to the car manufacturer. And, the US northeast states do use a lot of salt on the winter roads. Although those rental companies do a good job of exterior and interior cleaning, I don't think they touch the engine bays. If the car was run in very salty conditions and then sat for a period of time on the lot, I suppose these poorly painted parts could rust quickly.

Since the car comes from a reputable rental company, ask for a Carfax vehicle history report. I think you're safe as, as far as I know, major companies like Hertz don't circumvent reporting of damage as some unscrupulous used car dealers might.

You could also check out the car's title via vehicle history.gov.

Have your mechanic thoroughly inspect the car and like you say, look for rust underneath and debris in nooks and crannies, under engine cover, mud or silt under carpets. Given its location, flood damage seems unlikely. It's most likely that the car was just in conditions that allowed for condensation under the hood. My '06 is in an unheated garage and when the ambient temp changes, the car can have moisture under the hood.

I hope it pans out for you and if you buy it...see you in the forums! :thumbsup:

[jowii]

It's interesting that there's that much corrosion on the motor mount specifically. My formerly rust belt driven '06 is anywhere near that rusty, nor is my currently winter driven '08. I do rustproof everything but these cars were both close to 10 years old when I bought them. The rear battery bracket retainer and hood latch assembly seem abnormally rusty too. I have seen some newer cars with similar rust and I think it's possible that there there a inconsistencies in paint quality and paint application by the supplier of parts to the car manufacturer. And, the US northeast states do use a lot of salt on the winter roads. Although those rental companies do a good job of exterior and interior cleaning, I don't think they touch the engine bays. If the car was run in very salty conditions and then sat for a period of time in the lot, I suppose these poorly painted parts could rust quickly.

Since the car comes from a reputable rental company, ask for a Carfax vehicle history report. I think you're safe as, as far as I know, major companies like Hertz don't circumvent reporting of damage as some unscrupulous used car dealers might.

You could also check out the car's title via vehicle history.gov.

Have your mechanic thoroughly inspect the car and like you say, look for rust underneath and debris in nooks and crannies, under engine cover, mud or silt under carpets. Given its location, flood damage seems unlikely. It's most likely that the car was just in conditions that allowed for condensation under the hood. My '06 is in an unheated garage and when the ambient temp changes, the car can have moisture under the hood.

I hope it pans out for you and if you buy it...see you in the forums! :thumbsup:

Thanks so much for your response...and for the hope that this might not be too serious as I wait for my inspection appointment tomorrow. We'll see! I guess if trying to remain positive in regards to any possible rust issues...the Yaris is a small car with less surface area to worry about...

Hertz did provide an AutoCheck report, and at least on that there is no reported accidents or any damage...

Either other similar cars don't suffer this corrosion, or Hertz does clean up the engine when they certify them. I've looked at pictures of other certified Yaris vehicles at other Hertz locations out of town, and the engine bay certainly looks to have been cleaned. Those cars remain in the lot at those locations. The one I am considering is a "rent2buy" which came right from the rental fleet. Downside of going the rent2buy route, aside from the certification (which offers the same warranty and you'd still want to take it to a mechanic anyways) is they don't offer pictures up front (since they can't guarantee the condition of the car while in use). Upside is they are a few less miles, slightly cheaper, and bigger selection at times in terms of colors.

Hertz assures that all of their vehicles are well maintained, but they don't supply maintenance records (aside from the last safety inspection and oil change). Although a blog post on their site (albeit a few years old) suggests getting the maintenance records when buying a rental car...

I noticed that the Yaris does have a 60-month, unlimited mile, rust-through warranty through Toyota. However, under what is NOT covered, it says:
• Airborne chemicals, tree sap, road
debris (including stone chips), rail dust,
salt, hail, floods, wind storms, lightning
and other environmental conditions
• Water contamination

Do you know anymore about that? It seems quite confusing, because I'm not sure how else oxidation occurs :iono: how can they determine what exactly caused it? And when they do, what causes are left that are covered? Otherwise, without that caveat, it would be comforting to know that warranty would apply.

I was debating just taking it straight to a Toyota dealer for inspection, since they might be able to give a more definitive answer on all of this if they were to find anything concerning. But not sure how that would go since they are also the business to sell cars... I'm also unsure if they even do used car inspections. I'll check.

Hoping tomorrow everything turns out ok (fingers crossed)!
Thanks again for your help! :smile:

[06YarisRS]

Though I have never investigated in depth any car corrosion warranties, my understanding is that largely the warranties offered refer to perforation of body panels from the inside out which rarely happens before that aspect of the warranty expires. It often happens slightly after it expires. The only manufacturer I know of that really appears to stand behind their body and paint work is VW. My nephew had his near 10 year old hood repainted by VW as it had some blistering paint at the leading edge.

That rust in your pics just seems like light surface rust and easily repaired if you were so inclined. A wire brush, some tape, newspaper, rust converter, primer, paint and artist brushes and it could look like new. I'd then give it a light mist of rustproofing after it's cured.

The car is probably perfectly fine. Maybe if you took it to Toyota, tell them you bought it and plan to bring it to them for occasional repairs and maintenance, you'd get a more unbiased evaluation of the car's overall condition.

Tangent: If you buy the car, I would recommend a serious rustproofing regimen. I've discovered many areas on the 2nd gen. Yaris that are potential trouble areas. My experience is that rustproofing chains/companies do not do a thorough job. Yes, they can lay on a good undercoat, but there are internal substructures (water/condensation traps) that they rarely get although they may claim to. I also can't underscore strongly enough the benefits of a good quality floor liner (WeatherTech, Husky, even some of the eBay ones) - ones that are fully molded and have large lips/edges. Water from boots quickly soaks into and through carpets and sits on the floor pan seams even though they are seam sealed.

Best of luck! I'm guessing you'll be satisified with the report and go through with the purchase. If so, take lots of pics! One thing we like here is lots of pictures. Well, I do anyway. :laugh:

[dogsridewith]

Yarii will die of rust from the rear forward due to salt spray from front tires. Colorado is generally dry and easy on vehicles...but who knows where that one has been. My Yaris underhood area gets the wettest of any prior car from my washing w/ low pressure water through a Walmart brush-head wand. Also maybe wind driven rain. I think some of this may be due to unusual cowl HVAC intake design.
Thread vehicle rust could be related to regular rental car washing method?

[Leegamer]

Looks like surface rust. If you scrub it off and put on some anti-rust treatment it should be fine.

[jowii]

Thanks everybody! I'll report back with what I find out.
I'll definitely give it a cleaning. I guess I've been more concerned with the possible cause since it's difficult for me to find pictures showing rust on the motor mounts and in the engine bay in general...and what other possible issues that might allude to.

So assuming this might have gathered some salt from roads from being up north, probably a good idea regardless if they find signs of rust now, to get the undercarriage cleaned?

[dogsridewith]

I hate to see a pressure washed engine bay. Am spritzing around green, interesting smelling Corrosion Block--Florida snake oil from those big serpents in their swamps. (An experiment, not advice.) My SoCal 07 got some rust on that big engine mount too with a couple years in the Appalachians.

[jowii]

The undercarriage is ok. There's a list of other maintenance things that seem a little overdue, but manageable. Hertz claims to keep vehicles well maintained, but they don't provide maintenance records (even though their blog on their own site suggests getting maintenance records when buying a rental car) :confused: They won't even supply them after you buy the vehicle.

I actually had taken it to the local Toyota dealer who does pre-purchase inspections. So I trust their eyes and experience. They were really helpful and nice to work with. If anybody around here was selling a Yaris with this low of miles for this price, I would've jumped on it. And I was also searching for new ones, but it is incredibly difficult to find baseline models and near impossible to find hatchbacks in new inventory. I'd also like a 5-speed manual...which seems rare to find in the US.

[06YarisRS]

The undercarriage is ok. There's a list of other maintenance things that seem a little overdue, but manageable. Hertz claims to keep vehicles well maintained, but they don't provide maintenance records (even though their blog on their own site suggests getting maintenance records when buying a rental car) :confused: They won't even supply them after you buy the vehicle.

I actually had taken it to the local Toyota dealer who does pre-purchase inspections. So I trust their eyes and experience. They were really helpful and nice to work with. If anybody around here was selling a Yaris with this low of miles for this price, I would've jumped on it. And I was also searching for new ones, but it is incredibly difficult to find baseline models and near impossible to find hatchbacks in new inventory. I'd also like a 5-speed manual...which seems rare to find in the US.

That's great news! So, is there a purchase in the near future?

[jowii]

That's great news! So, is there a purchase in the near future?

Yup!:smile:

Thanks again!

[dogsridewith]

Surprised their was even one manual shift short-term rental anywhere.

[Leegamer]

Surprised their was even one manual shift short-term rental anywhere.

Good point! I've never seen one.

[thebarber]

That rust is fine.

Is oil spraying a thig in CO?

[tmontague]

Definitely check the rest of the chassis for rust. If it all clears then don't be concerned with surface rust on one isolated part like the engine mount. As others have stated, could he simply poor paint applications on that specific part and not a big deal.

Dont trust the rust warranties of any manufacturer as they are all nothing more than sales tactics. Make sure you go ahead and have all of the maintenance up to date unless you have proof that it was previously done.

[jowii]

Surprised their was even one manual shift short-term rental anywhere.

Oh I meant when shopping new. Kind of left with what the dealerships have or are willing to hunt down and get in without ending up paying lots extra for what should be the cheaper option of transmission choices.

[jowii]

Definitely check the rest of the chassis for rust. If it all clears then don't be concerned with surface rust on one isolated part like the engine mount. As others have stated, could he simply poor paint applications on that specific part and not a big deal.

Dont trust the rust warranties of any manufacturer as they are all nothing more than sales tactics. Make sure you go ahead and have all of the maintenance up to date unless you have proof that it was previously done.

Yup it looks ok and is rust free there. Thanks!

[jowii]

One small issue I'm having right now is that there is a creaking when steering at low speeds. Initially I thought it was just noise of the steering column itself, but of course the steering wheel doesn't make a noise when at a complete stop and turning the wheel. Wasn't sure if that was something to expect from the Yaris...otherwise, what I have read points to possible bad suspension joints. Having it looked at now...

[tmontague]

Hmm odd, and not really a common problem. No way to tell without getting underneath it and checking the various components while compressing the suspension

[jowii]

One small issue I'm having right now is that there is a creaking when steering at low speeds. Initially I thought it was just noise of the steering column itself, but of course the steering wheel doesn't make a noise when at a complete stop and turning the wheel. Wasn't sure if that was something to expect from the Yaris...otherwise, what I have read points to possible bad suspension joints. Having it looked at now...

Apparently what I'm hearing is common to the Yaris. They compared to others they had on the lot that behaved the same way. They explained it was just the behavior of economy cars and not being as quiet in the cabin.

[tmontague]

That was something I was going to mentions. At the end of the day it is an eco box. They make noises, you learn to live with them. As long as nothing is worn out or broken then you get used to it

[jowii]

That was something I was going to mentions. At the end of the day it is an eco box. They make noises, you learn to live with them. As long as nothing is worn out or broken then you get used to it

Also, as I'm learning as I go, I learned that the Yaris has electronic power steering and I imagine what I'm likely hearing is a subtle sound from that motor.

Much of my online research in general yielded results of "under no circumstances should you hear sound when steering...any sound points to a problem" (for cars in general) and I think those statements don't account for EPS, let alone EPS in economy cars.

[Hamster]

jowii - My ten year old Yaris makes no creaking, or noises from the power steering motor. The only noise the car makes is from the engine. I'm no mechanic, but it sounds really strange that you would hear a sound when steering. I don't think that's normal. Sounds like this car has a bunch of red flags.

[jowii]

jowii - My ten year old Yaris makes no creaking, or noises from the power steering motor. The only noise the car makes is from the engine. I'm no mechanic, but it sounds really strange that you would hear a sound when steering. I don't think that's normal. Sounds like this car has a bunch of red flags.

Thanks. I called Toyota directly and they could not answer the question unfortunately. They said it's up to the dealership to decide, which the one I had already taken it to said it was to be expected.

The other thing I can certainly do is ask to look at another Yaris at Hertz to compare. If the issue isn't in the next one, not sure my next move because I also don't want to take a gamble on what might be wrong in the next vehicle and don't want to spend more money for a mechanic to look at another car...

Does your Yaris use electronic power steering?

[dogsridewith]

Could steering noise be rubber creaking...maybe at the ball joint cover or something at the top of the strut? I'm pretty sure my Corrosion Block spritzing made some suspension creak go away, and now I'm hitting everything rubber or plastic (white sway bar bushings). Just my experiment...not advice.

[06YarisRS]

Could steering noise be rubber creaking...maybe at the ball joint cover or something at the top of the strut? I'm pretty sure my Corrosion Block spritzing made some suspension creak go away, and now I'm hitting everything rubber or plastic (white sway bar bushings). Just my experiment...not advice.

Are you not worried about the potentially adverse reactions between rubber/plastic components and a petroleum based product? It probably wouldn't hurt anything in the short term, but long term exposure could cause crumbling, swelling, distortion of bushings/other rubber parts etc. I've definitely seem that happen and have caused it myself before I became attuned to it and now try to avoid direct contact.

[tmontague]

Thanks. I called Toyota directly and they could not answer the question unfortunately. They said it's up to the dealership to decide, which the one I had already taken it to said it was to be expected.

The other thing I can certainly do is ask to look at another Yaris at Hertz to compare. If the issue isn't in the next one, not sure my next move because I also don't want to take a gamble on what might be wrong in the next vehicle and don't want to spend more money for a mechanic to look at another car...

Does your Yaris use electronic power steering?

A creak I'd nothing serious and likely is a rubber bushing in the suspension. That said if you cannot or do not do the work yourself, it was add up to a costly fix. If you do the work yourself then it's relatively cheap.

Could be something as simple as sway bar bushings, but like I said this isnt a common issue on 2nd gen or 1st gens and this is only a 2 year old car we are talking aboht

[dogsridewith]

Are you not worried about the potentially adverse reactions between rubber/plastic components and a petroleum based product? It probably wouldn't hurt anything in the short term, but long term exposure could cause crumbling, swelling, distortion of bushings/other rubber parts etc. I've definitely seem that happen and have caused it myself before I became attuned to it and now try to avoid direct contact.

"What...me worry?"

Concerned. Yes. On a couple prior vehicles I was lubing rubber bushings w/ DOT5 brake fluid. (Silicone) Here my thinking was that silicone sprays had other stuff besides silicone in the formula that could hurt "rubber." Results? Don't know for sure.

Don't know what's in it and just went w/ Corrosion Block because of what was on their web site. Marketing towards spraying everything under the covers of outboard motors used in salt water...which includes wiring, etc. Main purpose for me was rustproofing w/o hurting wiring, electronics and rubber tubing...notice some some of this around Yaris fuel tank.

An experiment. Stuff doesn't smell bad...sort of interesting, actually.

[jowii]

A creak I'd nothing serious and likely is a rubber bushing in the suspension. That said if you cannot or do not do the work yourself, it was add up to a costly fix. If you do the work yourself then it's relatively cheap.

Could be something as simple as sway bar bushings, but like I said this isnt a common issue on 2nd gen or 1st gens and this is only a 2 year old car we are talking aboht

Thanks. The dealership drove it around and said they compared it to other vehicles and said it was similar... I called Toyota's main customer support and they couldn't give an answer and they told me that they leave it to the dealer to decide. I asked if since I have a ticket created for the concern, if it would be honored under warranty if it does become an apparent issue after the warranty expires, and I think the answer is no...

I've attached an audio file with what I'm hearing (startup and then steering about halfway through until end). Unfortunately when I record a video with my phone, the cheap phone mic and audio compression in the video make it sound much worse than it is.

Some folks tell me it sounds like power steering fluid being low, which the Yaris doesn't have right? Or maybe it's just a noisy EPS motor or things are easier to hear in the Yaris. Which by the way, when I'm driving around I do find myself freaking out more than I did in my other car, because everything starts to sound like it's coming from the car (other people's cars, the texture of the road, etc.) lol

[06YarisRS]

"What...me worry?"

Concerned. Yes. On a couple prior vehicles I was lubing rubber bushings w/ DOT5 brake fluid. (Silicone) Here my thinking was that silicone sprays had other stuff besides silicone in the formula that could hurt "rubber." Results? Don't know for sure.

Don't know what's in it and just went w/ Corrosion Block because of what was on their web site. Marketing towards spraying everything under the covers of outboard motors used in salt water...which includes wiring, etc. Main purpose for me was rustproofing w/o hurting wiring, electronics and rubber tubing...notice some some of this around Yaris fuel tank.

An experiment. Stuff doesn't smell bad...sort of interesting, actually.

It's probably great stuff for rustproofing. I've been trying to nail down a strange rumble I get when my '08 hits dips on the highway. I found a crumbling trailing arm bushing and I had inadvertently hit it a few times with oil-based goop. The core of the bushing is solid, but I pulled off chunks of the bits of rubber that extend to outer part of the bushing. I'm just a little cautious now, I guess. Also, in the past, I ruined a few door gaskets as the thin oil-based stuff I used dripped down, swelling them.

[06YarisRS]

Thanks. The dealership drove it around and said they compared it to other vehicles and said it was similar... I called Toyota's main customer support and they couldn't give an answer and they told me that they leave it to the dealer to decide. I asked if since I have a ticket created for the concern, if it would be honored under warranty if it does become an apparent issue after the warranty expires, and I think the answer is no...

I've attached an audio file with what I'm hearing (startup and then steering about halfway through until end). Unfortunately when I record a video with my phone, the cheap phone mic and audio compression in the video make it sound much worse than it is.

Some folks tell me it sounds like power steering fluid being low, which the Yaris doesn't have right? Or maybe it's just a noisy EPS motor or things are easier to hear in the Yaris. Which by the way, when I'm driving around I do find myself freaking out more than I did in my other car, because everything starts to sound like it's coming from the car (other people's cars, the texture of the road, etc.) lol

I heard it. It's the 3 sort of scraping sounds? Is it happening as you cycle the steering wheel back and forth? Is it smooth when you turn the wheel, or any roughness?

I'll go out in a bit and cycle the steering wheel on my '08 and see if I have any noise. Mine is a lot older, so it may not be an apples to apples comparison.

[jowii]

I heard it. It's the 3 sort of scraping sounds? Is it happening as you cycle the steering wheel back and forth? Is it smooth when you turn the wheel, or any roughness?

I'll go out in a bit and cycle the steering wheel on my '08 and see if I have any noise. Mine is a lot older, so it may not be an apples to apples comparison.

Thanks I appreciate it.

Yeah it's those sounds when moving the wheel any amount. It feels smooth, just makes sound. And it comes directly from the steering wheel column area. Doesn't make the sound when the car is off and I can move the wheel little bits, so I'm sure it's not something actually scraping in the column. Sounds a bit mechanical/electronic I guess. Maybe similar in ways to what I might hear in other vehicles with conventional power steering when turning the wheel all the way "full lock", but maybe more subtle. Not really sure how to best describe the sound.

[dogsridewith]

Is the car rolling during these steering sound tests? Engine on and engine off?
(Might be in a column bushing that is differently loaded in the different test protocols?)

My 1989 Tercel had a clunking column bushing that was much louder in winter cold. (Was happy to finally find it not being a suspension part)

[jowii]

Is the car rolling during these steering sound tests? Engine on and engine off?
(Might be in a column bushing that is differently loaded in the different test protocols?)

My 1989 Tercel had a clunking column bushing that was much louder in winter cold. (Was happy to finally find it not being a suspension part)

It does it when rolling, but the example is while parked and engine is running. It sounds like it's coming right from the column behind the wheel. I know how well sound travels within the Yaris, so I suppose the source might not be immediately located where I'm hearing the sound, but I imagine it has to do with the EPS motor or soemthing in there. Not sure how to get a look at it.

[jowii]

I realize at this point that I should have perhaps created a separate thread for this?

Doing more research about EPS, I found this write-up about EPS, but perhaps pertaining more to GM:
https://evwest.com/support/How%20this%20steering%20works.pdf
It says, "Remember though that a slight noise (humming or quiet whine) is a normal operating characteristic."

Who knows if the Toyota would have the same operating characteristics for the same reasons with different parts and assembly, but it at least challenges some of these other articles that say, "Under normal circumstances, no steering wheel makes noise when turning." It would certainly be nice if it didn't! :smile:
https://carfromjapan.com/article/car-maintenance/causes-steering-wheel-makes-noise-turning/

I did find this other post by a Toyota owner, perhaps a similar situation (who was assuming something with the motor)...
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/Discussion-t37109_ds673149
No follow-up though.

But maybe it's more related to torque sensors which might account for the more direct sound if I'm looking at the diagram correctly? I'm also still reading up on exactly how it works... I understand the principle, but not all the parts yet.

[tmontague]

Try it while parked with the engine running and again with the key in but the engine off. It will help you isolate if it is related the the EPs motor or not

[Hamster]

I listened to the audio. I heard sounds that my car definitely doesn't make.

Also, someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the power steering is all electric, therefore there is no fluid. I've looked under the hood of my car who knows how many times, and I've never seen a power steering fluid reservoir.

[Dodge Aries K]

I believe that to be the electric power steering system. Both of the 16's I owned (one I bought brand new) and my 14 made that same noise especially when it's been cold as hell outside. I personally wouldn't worry about that.

[jowii]

Try it while parked with the engine running and again with the key in but the engine off. It will help you isolate if it is related the the EPs motor or not

Ok I'll try this again. I'm pretty sure I can't turn the wheel unless the engine is running. I did put the key in and turn it to the on position without starting, which allowed some play in the wheel, and although I couldn't turn it a great deal, I wasn't getting the sound when doing that. I'll double check.

[jowii]

I listened to the audio. I heard sounds that my car definitely doesn't make.

Also, someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the power steering is all electric, therefore there is no fluid. I've looked under the hood of my car who knows how many times, and I've never seen a power steering fluid reservoir.

As far as I know, that is correct. Everything I've searched says that there is no power steering fluid for the Toyota EPS system. Others I've spoken to claim that there is fluid even for EPS systems, but I'm not sure if maybe other systems have it?

[jowii]

I believe that to be the electric power steering system. Both of the 16's I owned (one I bought brand new) and my 14 made that same noise especially when it's been cold as hell outside. I personally wouldn't worry about that.

Thank you. That's good to hear. I still have an appointment to have it looked at along with some other things...so I'll still have them affirm that it's not an issue.

There certainly seems to be inconsistencies in the experiences of Yaris owners. And it would be nice for Toyota's main customer support to have it on hand that some noise could be normal (since it sort of defies the thinking and red flags of more familiar hydraulic systems, where any sound when steering is likely a problem).

It could just be the luck of the draw with economy cars that have EPS, such as, "Does your dashboard rattle?" Which by the way, the audio display in this Yaris starts to creak and pop once the car warms up and I'm not on a perfectly smooth road, but that's just an annoyance and not a concern. And maybe some folks just end up with quieter EPS components. Or maybe it is just a cold thing? And the other folks are in warmer weather?

[06YarisRS]

Ok, so I tested my steering. I do not have the sounds that are audible in your audio clip. This certainly doesn't mean anything is wrong with yours.

[jowii]

To any forum moderator: I was going to edit the title of this thread to be more inclusive to the issues being discussed, so if others experiencing some of the same things search or browse for it, they might be more likely to find it. But it seems I'm not able to change the title.

I was thinking of just naming it "rust on engine parts / sound of EPS steering"

Or I could also just create a new thread about steering, summarizing with a full report, once I have a conclusion. Whatever you think works best!

[jowii]

Ok, so I tested my steering. I do not have the sounds that are audible in your audio clip. This certainly doesn't mean anything is wrong with yours.

Yeah, I wonder if there's just an inconsistency. Karl above seems to happen upon it with every Yaris.

When did the Yaris start incorporating EPS? I also imagine that the system could have changed over the years with different, maybe even cheaper parts. Maybe even different assemblies with the components ending up in different places? I know this Yaris has most of the components in the steering column. I'm not sure about other years of the Yaris, but I do know now that some cars with EPS have the components closer to or on the axle.

[jowii]

Ok so back to the motor mounts... Maybe my motor mounts are bad?

I've noticed a light clunk when shifting into reverse. It's subtle. Honestly I probably wouldn't give it a second thought if it wasn't a vehicle I was looking to buy. But everything has my attention now.

When I had someone else shift while I had the hood open to look at the engine, I noticed the engine moves quite a bit when shifting between park, reverse, and drive.

What is the normal behavior of the Yaris engine when shifting? Is it normal to see some movement?

[WeeYari]

My thoughts; you are getting way to inside your head about this. The Yaris makes noises, and they don't all exhibit identical characteristics.

EPS was introduced with the introduction of the Gen2, so depending on the market, model year 2006/07.

The motor mounts are somewhat sloppy and the engine will move considerably.

Sent from my EML-L09 using Tapatalk

[jowii]

My thoughts; you are getting way to inside your head about this. The Yaris makes noises, and they don't all exhibit identical characteristics.

EPS was introduced with the introduction of the Gen2, so depending on the market, model year 2006/07.

The motor mounts are somewhat sloppy and the engine will move considerably.

Sent from my EML-L09 using Tapatalk

Thank you. Yeah, I'm in a holding pattern right now until the next steps of the buying process...the whole process has been a bit slow and now it's a holiday weekend. So I've just had more time with the vehicle to notice more things. But they're still things I would probably question even after the purchase and good to have knowledge of to be able to diagnose potential problems later. I appreciate it.

[dogsridewith]

A low or at floor clutch disengagement is a Yaris thing when the system needs to be bled. (My pedal came up a little.)
Clunk and rocking engine at stopped shifts could be related...or it could be the no-reverse-gear-synchro thing. (and stiff first gear thing) Threads here on this.

[Dodge Aries K]

The squeak/rattle by the radio happened on both of my 2016's. Swapping in a bezel from a 12-14 will stop it or get some thin foam tape and put it around the bezel. The 12-14 bezels have some foam tape on them already.

Also, my wife's 2012, a 2013 I didn't have long, and my 2007 Yaris don't make the power steering noise really. Those are all Japanese built cars and the 14 and 16s were French made units so maybe that's why?

[tmontague]

My thoughts; you are getting way to inside your head about this. The Yaris makes noises, and they don't all exhibit identical characteristics.

EPS was introduced with the introduction of the Gen2, so depending on the market, model year 2006/07.

The motor mounts are somewhat sloppy and the engine will move considerably.

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Agreed. No way 2 year old factory motor mounts are bad. The stock mounts are doughy and meant for an economic box to be as quiet as possible. If you think about this too much it will drive you crazy. There will always be odd creaks and or noises on this caliber of car (as well as many others). Bottom line, as long as the oil changes were done properly on this yaris and the rust thing checks out then you have a stupid reliable car in your hands, creak squeaks and all

[jowii]

Thanks, everybody!

Yeah the creaks I can certainly live with and they don't cause me anxiety.

It's the other mechanical stuff with the Yaris that I'm just not familiar with and want to be sure about.

Sometimes particular research can be less than helpful...when so many articles say that any sound from steering is pointing at an issue or or that bad motor mounts can be diagnosed by seeing the engine move considerable when shifting between reverse and park, etc... All of which don't account for EPS in an economy car and a car with only 2 motor mounts where many cars have 4...

So I'm happy to have found this place :)
Also the Toyota dealer I am going to has been very helpful to explain and verify these things with me as well.

[Hamster]

Just curious, but how much are you paying for the Yaris? And how many miles does it have?

[jowii]

Just curious, but how much are you paying for the Yaris? And how many miles does it have?

$9k and 36k miles

[dogsridewith]

Did this thread say where it was made?

[jowii]

Did this thread say where it was made?

France

[jowii]

I am having a weird fuel gauge issue.

I was at half a tank.
I filled it until it the pump clicked and shutoff. It was 3 gallons. But once I started the car, it also read just below F...
1 mile down the road, it dropped to 1/8th of a tank below full on the gauge.

As I understand, this tank is 11.1 gallons. Even from half a tank to where it is sitting now would be a little over 4 gallons.

It's a little confusing. Hoping it's just a simple sensor issue and not point at something more serious.

[tmontague]

normal, due to the digital nature of the gauge it can appear to read slightly high right after a almost but not full fill up, only to then drop a bar on the gauge shortly after.

What wasn't normal was the pump shutting off before you were actually full. This happens sometimes are various pumps depending on various things especially full fill rate. I have had this happen to me a few times but I know it should take more so I keep filling it and it eventually shuts off when it should.

Just be careful doing this on a new to you car where you're unfamiliar with the tank capacity and its characteristics. if you overfill a tank it can damage the charcoal canister and lead to the premature stopping every time you try and fill the car with fuel.

[jowii]

normal, due to the digital nature of the gauge it can appear to read slightly high right after a almost but not full fill up, only to then drop a bar on the gauge shortly after.

What wasn't normal was the pump shutting off before you were actually full. This happens sometimes are various pumps depending on various things especially full fill rate. I have had this happen to me a few times but I know it should take more so I keep filling it and it eventually shuts off when it should.

Just be careful doing this on a new to you car where you're unfamiliar with the tank capacity and its characteristics. if you overfill a tank it can damage the charcoal canister and lead to the premature stopping every time you try and fill the car with fuel.

Yeah who knows if someone who had the car previously overfilled the tank, which had crossed my mind. One mechanic told me in those cases, that the check engine light will come on if it's something serious.

[tmontague]

One mechanic told me in those cases, that the check engine light will come on if it's something serious.

not necessarily, and in my experience as well as others on this forum who had this issue in different cars, a CEL did not illuminate.

You would know if this was damaged from a previous user. You would have the pump constantly shutting off if you try to even come close to filling it at full force. You may also smell gasoline vapors when the tank is full. (this happens on my Vibe, but it still allows me to fill it fully without shutting off the pump)

[jowii]

not necessarily, and in my experience as well as others on this forum who had this issue in different cars, a CEL did not illuminate.

You would know if this was damaged from a previous user. You would have the pump constantly shutting off if you try to even come close to filling it at full force. You may also smell gasoline vapors when the tank is full. (this happens on my Vibe, but it still allows me to fill it fully without shutting off the pump)

It does have a 'lightly rough' idle occasionally, which I guess can be a symptom of something going on with the vapor cannister... But I had figured it might have just been the cold.

I can also see the RPM a little low sometimes when at a stop light. Feels smooth around 1k RPM, but when it drops lower than that, there can be a bit of a lightly pulsating vibration.

[tmontague]

^also normal for a small 4 banger with a low idle like the yaris has. The car is likely a good purchase. Less worrying and more driving/enjoying, it's more fun that way!

[jowii]

^also normal for a small 4 banger with a low idle like the yaris has. The car is likely a good purchase. Less worrying and more driving/enjoying, it's more fun that way!

Oh for sure! Thanks!

[WeeYari]

Have you actually bought it, or still on your extended test drive?

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[Dodge Aries K]

Did this thread say where it was made?

No but any US sold Yaris after 2014 is made in France by default.

[WeeYari]

No but any US sold Yaris after 2014 is made in France by default.Post#55

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[jowii]

Have you actually bought it, or still on your extended test drive?

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Haven't bought yet because of the long process. Toyota couldn't find anything wrong, but admitted that what is happening with the fuel gauge is very odd and had no explanation for it :iono: Suggested I bring it back again to have them check by fueling it.

[Dodge Aries K]

Post#55

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Damn, my stupid computer didn't show any post after that question hahaha.

[jowii]

Haven't bought yet because of the long process. Toyota couldn't find anything wrong, but admitted that what is happening with the fuel gauge is very odd and had no explanation for it :iono: Suggested I bring it back again to have them check by fueling it.

Wait a sec...

So the pump cutting off before full and then dropping down quickly to what is 7/8 a tank after filling up from from 1/2 tank is one thing, but what it dropped down to might actually represent about 3 gallons?...considering if there is a gallon or so left after reaching empty on the gauge.

For reference, this is what I saw at the gas pump earlier...
It then pretty quickly dropped to 7/8.

[dogsridewith]

I see a near full gauge and a half full gauge. What is 7/8? What were time and conditions between fill up and needle drop? Did it do this right after key was turned on?

If there is a fuel gauge problem, I'd consider demanding fixed or a price drop on this French built rental...or just walk away. (There's also a thread mention somewhere here of bad timing chains on French Yarii.)

[jowii]

I see a near full gauge and a half full gauge. What is 7/8? What were time and conditions between fill up and needle drop? Did it do this right after key was turned on?

If there is a fuel gauge problem, I'd consider demanding fixed or a price drop on this French built rental...or just walk away. (There's also a thread mention somewhere here of bad timing chains on French Yarii.)

It was about a mile or two down the road that it dropped to that first line. They won't adjust the price, I've tried based on some other stuff. It does have a few hundred miles left on the comprehensive warranty. Toyota looked at it and said everything was functioning as it should, but to bring it back with half a tank so they can look into it further. And they said they had it noted, so if there is anything wrong past the warranty time, they could honor it.

[dogsridewith]

Sorry that I can't understand the math and descriptions and photos of this fuel gauge problem. If the gauge just dropped from F to a little bit below F driving off, then I don't see any problem. If it stopped filling at 15/16 to "F" and dropped to 7/8 a mile down the road, I also wouldn't worry or dribble in more on the next fills to push the needle above 15/16.
Slope of the fill-up location makes some difference in fill amount and level sensing too.

[tmontague]

^agreed, even a mild slope has a lot to do with it

[jowii]

Sorry that I can't understand the math and descriptions and photos of this fuel gauge problem. If the gauge just dropped from F to a little bit below F driving off, then I don't see any problem. If it stopped filling at 15/16 to "F" and dropped to 7/8 a mile down the road, I also wouldn't worry or dribble in more on the next fills to push the needle above 15/16.
Slope of the fill-up location makes some difference in fill amount and level sensing too.

Gotcha. I guess I may also be misinterpreting what the gauge represents. It was unexpected that between 1/2 and 7/8 on the gauge would be just 3 gallons.

[WeeYari]

If the behaviour of the Gen3 analog gauge mimics the Gen2 digital gauge, the the top 1/8th is closer to 1/4. I can drive almost 2 times further on the first 8th than I can on any of the subsequent 8ths.

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[myfirstyota]

If the behaviour of the Gen3 analog gauge mimics the Gen2 digital gauge, the the top 1/8th is closer to 1/4. I can drive almost 2 times further on the first 8th than I can on any of the subsequent 8ths.

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+1. I used to get well over 100km before the gauge showed 7/8ths before my big snow tires. Same with the last 3 door I had.

[tmontague]

+1

[jowii]

Good to know. I think I read somewhere that it might have something to do with the shape of the tank...?

This thread could also be called "Used Yaris newbie questions" :biggrin:
But seriously :)

My next question is about the radiator fan...
Should that always be running? Or only when necessary?
The one in my last car was always on... So just looked weird to see this one not spinning.

[WeeYari]

Only when necessary.

Now hurry up and buy the damn thing and regale us with your exploits, not your concerns.

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[jowii]

Only when necessary.

Now hurry up and buy the damn thing and regale us with your exploits, not your concerns.

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:thumbup:

Oh yeah I've already started the process...now it's my bank and them talking to finalize everything.

It will soon officially be my "Blueberry" :smile:

Any Psych (tv show) fans here? Anybody own an Echo?
That's what has inspired me to call this the Blueberry lol

[WeeYari]

One and only post from this dude dated June 6, 2007. Check out user name.

i ordered my Yaris RS on the second week of june, and did'nt get it untill the 5 of september! manufacture date is 07/06 so mine hadnt even been on the assembly line at the time of my order, i ended up getting the RS cause i wanted the 60/40 split rear adjustable seats, which gave me alloy wheels,fog lights , power wondows keyless entry, 6-disk indash changer(not so great) and the rear spoiler, first 07 RS in the maritimes(so im told) but not the only one, love that damn car!!! fun as hell to drive!!!

[jowii]

One and only post from this dude dated June 6, 2007. Check out user name.

Haha nice :headbang:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zW0aU97Dhck

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6KZq953EEc