Want opinions automatic vs. manual transmission

[anik]

I'm in a situation where I'm assisting another family member in buying a car - this is the first time they've bought a new car in many years (and I've always bought used) so we're not used to having options to pick from. We visited the local Toyota dealer the other day and were pretty sold on the Yaris liftback but the major reason we didn't place an order then and there was because we couldn't decide between automatic and manual transmission.

The primary driver of the car is 55 years old and most of his previous cars have had manual transmission. He lives approximately 50 miles from the dealership and absolutely hates taking a car in for service of any kind (other than oil changes at the local quick lube place), which is one reason we're looking at a Toyota in the first place. He also wants great gas mileage.

But at the same time, he's getting older, and his reflexes aren't what they used to be. We took both a manual and an automatic for a test drive. To me the automatic seemed a bit sluggish in changing gears (but remember I'm not used to automatics either) and it seemed like there were only three gears in getting up to 55 (maybe I missed a gear change). But, he had no trouble driving it at all. With the manual transmission, he did okay, but his current car is a four-speed manual. Maybe that is why a couple times he accidentally downshifted into 3rd when he was actually trying to go into 5th, and I could see that really bothered him. So I guess the bottom line is, he likes the convenience of not having to shift (though that's not a major issue at this point) but he also worries that an automatic will require more maintenance and/or have significantly lower gas mileage.

He is the type that will take a car in at recommended service intervals (at least in the first year or two) but other than that he sort of treats auto shops as though he might catch the bubonic plague by walking inside one (his biggest problem is that he hates to sit around and wait anywhere - he avoids doctors' visits for the same reason) - which might be fine IF he were mechanically inclined, but he isn't (one reason he's ready to trade in his current car is because he's having to add oil ONCE between 3,000 mile trips to the quick oil change place, and he doesn't like to get under the hood at all). So I'm thinking a Toyota is definitely the best choice for him, but wonder which transmission would be the best option. Believe it or not, that choice is the only reason an order hasn't been placed for the Yaris. He can't make up his mind, and I don't know enough about Toyota transmissions to make an informed suggestion.

As long as I'm posting this, I have two other things to ask. First, is there any significant reason that anyone knows of that we might want to wait for the 2008 models to come out? And second, is there anything we should specifically ask of the dealer - in other words, can the dealers offer any discounts, rebates, additions, etc. that you only get if you know enough to ask for them? We're in Michigan, if that makes any difference.

[adamschneider]

The choice between AT and MT is the main reason I haven't placed an order yet myself. It's a really tough call, especially if you live in the city.

To those in the know: does the auto REALLY get gas mileage comparable to the stick? Every time I try to search for this info, I end up with the EPA estimates, which are not to be trusted.

[brickhardmeat]

The choice between AT and MT is the main reason I haven't placed an order yet myself. It's a really tough call, especially if you live in the city.

To those in the know: does the auto REALLY get gas mileage comparable to the stick? Every time I try to search for this info, I end up with the EPA estimates, which are not to be trusted.

There isn't much difference in the gas mileage on auto or manual on these cars. I get great mileage in town with my auto. I find it shifts much better than my truely sluggish golf. I personally hate manual transmissions. I live in the city. I drive in the city.

The gas mileage is affected by how you drive----> if you lay on it and slam on the brakes it will suck.

also there are several threads on this already, have at it

[kurokoma-kun]

From your description, my first impression would be that an automatic sounds safer, especially if the other driver is not used to a stick.

I have a manual, and my experience is that you are always shifting--have to keep the revs up to get any power out of it.

Good luck! :smile:

[petesimac]

Manual, manual, manual; it's such a fun car to drive! Pep is the word; this car has plenty of pep; it's so light and nimble on it's "feet". A joy to drive. Shifting is smooth and the clutch is light, albeit, a bit touchy -- only took a few weeks to get used to it. I would never go to automatic, and I live in Pittsburgh where there are hills upon hills, and still, I prefer the manual.

[gaffo]

automatic is for american tanks.

it is a crime to even offer an automatic on a small econobox!!

a crime against Nature!

Manual all the way!!

fun fun fun!

[webomatics]

Your better of getting a standard transmission IMHO, not to mention you’ll save some more money for upgrades later.

[swng]

The EPA ratings have become easier to believe. Please see:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/calculatorCompareSideBySide.jsp?column=1&id=22749
Be EPA ratings realistic or not, if you compare the fuel economy of the auto Yaris with that of the manual, using EPA ratings in both cases, you are comparing orange with orange. The field is level. Here is the comparison:smile::
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/mpg/overall-high.htm
You will see that the auto is almost as economical as the manual. A rare case indeed!

[brickhardmeat]

The EPA ratings have become easier to believe. Please see:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/calculatorCompareSideBySide.jsp?column=1&id=22749
Be EPA ratings realistic or not, if you compare the fuel economy of the auto Yaris with that of the manual, using EPA ratings in both cases, you are comparing orange with orange. The field is level. Here is the comparison:smile::
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/mpg/overall-high.htm
You will see that the auto is almost as economical as the manual. A rare case indeed!


Thanks for backing up what has been said a thousand times and retards like the posters above don't want to believe because they have some kind of syndrome.

Have fun shifting numbnuts. I prefer my comfy armrest while driving.

[swng]

:redface: :tongue: :smile::laugh: :biggrin: :bellyroll::redface:

[adamschneider]

The fueleconomy.gov page with the real-world mileage reports is very handy, thanks. (I think I ran across it the other day as well, but my head is spinning with all the sites I've been visiting...)

[webomatics]

Can you actually “use” the armrest in our cars? I don’t have one but as i see in the pictures its to low to be comfortable.

[churp]

.........But at the same time, he's getting older, and his reflexes aren't what they used to be. .......

HaHaHa :thumbup: are you researching the nursing homes yet!!!! I'm 56 and dreaming of retirement so I can play!!!

I drive the automatic and love it....my last 4 tanks have been over 40 mpg, but I don't drive much town or freeway on my daily route. If the "old guy" is into hypermiling I would recommend the manual, but normal everyday driving shows very little if any difference in mpg. You never mentioned what driving conditions or what part of the country you're in, so can't recommend much else. My manual tranny toys are in the garage to enjoy when I want, my auto Yaris is where I spend the most time.

By the way my 83 yo Dad hates power windows and drives auto in his cars but 5 speed in his truck.... but I love power windows!

...and give the "old guy" a break, he may outlive ya.....and our reflexes may be slower than 40 years ago, but we can still throw a good sucker punch! :thumbup: :headbang: :thumbup:

[Rizzo]

One thing to keep in mind with an "older" driver is that if they plan to have the car for a few years, the troubles they have now will be nothing compared to what they'll have in a few years. That isn't to say they'll be a bad driver, but if they're already struggling, there's no reason to make it worse. Near the end of your driving life (not saying it is, but this is what you're preparing for, right?), it's better to be comfortable, safe, and happy, than making it more complicated. I vote automatic just because there are fewer things to think about.

When my Grandfather neared the end of his driving life, it was embarrassment more than anything that affected him. Something to keep in mind for the next twenty years or so.

[kaboom]

Can you actually “use” the armrest in our cars? I don’t have one but as i see in the pictures its to low to be comfortable.
i don't know about "low" - mine comes very handy

[kaboom]

Automatic for me. Why not choose convenience? My sedan auto gets consistently 44-46 mpg ( suburbia driving)

[steved]

Automatic for me too. I hate shifting up and down in traffic.

[blacksan]

I prefer the manual on a low torque/horsepower engine. It allows me better control of the power-band in critical areas like merging, passing, etc. It also is more enjoyable for me as I am driving and not simply riding. My VW is pretty much a luxury ride with all the bells & whistles, but I find it almost boring if not hypnotic to do interstate travel with.

[gaffo]

I agree - had a TR7 5spd and a Ford Feista 4sp in the 80's-early90's.

inherited a "new" acura in 93 - through today.

the MOST BORING driving car in earth! - yes it as an automatic. every minute of every day these last 15 yrs I've loathed its pamping ways!

It I want a lazyboy - I'll buy the chair plop in in from of a TV.

For the road I want to DRIVE and not simply "ride" as you say.

I fear the love of "convienence" is the American way. When we have automatic toilet flushers and motorized towel dispensor I KNOW the song "In the year 2525" should our new National Anthem - that day is here ;-/.

the rest of the world understands our love of driving.

[brickhardmeat]

I prefer the manual on a low torque/horsepower engine. It allows me better control of the power-band in critical areas like merging, passing, etc. It also is more enjoyable for me as I am driving and not simply riding. My VW is pretty much a luxury ride with all the bells & whistles, but I find it almost boring if not hypnotic to do interstate travel with.

Which VW model do you have?

[blacksan]

Which VW model do you have?

Passat 4 Motion (made in Germany)

[webomatics]

I prefer the manual on a low torque/horsepower engine. It allows me better control of the power-band in critical areas like merging, passing, etc. It also is more enjoyable for me as I am driving and not simply riding. My VW is pretty much a luxury ride with all the bells & whistles, but I find it almost boring if not hypnotic to do interstate travel with.

Hey Blacksan funny that you mentioned that because that was exactly my situation. I got me a 2007 VW Jetta and I decided to give it to the wife, and one of the things that made me do that was the fact the car was not “fun to drive” sure it was fast and comfortable, but it was also boring to me. I’ll agree that sometimes you would like to have and automatic in certain situations, but overall it applies to each individual driving style. Most of my driving is highway anyway so I need to feel more in control and it’s a feeling I didn’t get with my other car.

[brickhardmeat]

Passat 4 Motion (made in Germany)

nice, wagon or sedan?

[blacksan]

nice, wagon or sedan?

Wagon, it even has such amenities as controllable AC vents in the glove box and rear cargo area. It really is an outstanding car, but not as fun to hammer around in as the yaris!:biggrin:

[TOOL]

I prefer the manual on a low torque/horsepower engine. It allows me better control of the power-band in critical areas like merging, passing, etc. It also is more enjoyable for me as I am driving and not simply riding. My VW is pretty much a luxury ride with all the bells & whistles, but I find it almost boring if not hypnotic to do interstate travel with.

Thats exactly why i like manual:thumbsup: !

[RShatchback]

If they didnt have the liftback in a manual when i was at the dealer - i would not have bought it. If someone gave me it in an auto - it would be sitting in the driveway. The cars not fast - but its fun. In an auto yaris, i'd probably be so bored that i'd fall asleep and injure someone. So my manual is safe and fun for everybody.

[churp]

I prefer the manual on a low torque/horsepower engine. It allows me better control of the power-band in critical areas like merging, passing, etc. .....

That's why I prefer the auto...it kicks down instantly giving the most power it has available when merging and passing, not requiring the nut behind the wheel (ME) to instantly find the proper gear in a (sometimes) emergency situation. Now going thru the twisties is another matter!!!!

[blacksan]

That's why I prefer the auto...it kicks down instantly giving the most power it has available when merging and passing, not requiring the nut behind the wheel (ME) to instantly find the proper gear in a (sometimes) emergency situation. Now going thru the twisties is another matter!!!!

I grew up on a farm learning to drive heavy equipment before I could read and write properly. having said that an automatic will never give you the control a manual transmission will. Now, if you do not have the nuance to take advantage of making your equipment perform to the optimum choose the slush box.

[kimona]

Well, I've always driven a stick, and that's what I wanted when I went out shopping for my Yaris.

But the dealer only had one Yaris, and it was an automatic!

Guess what? After struggling with whether to buy it all day, I finally said okay. Best decision I could have made.

I have to say... I love the automatic! It's quiet, responsive, upshifts and downshifts flawlessly, and it's fun to drive. Hey, the gas mileage is basically the same as the stick.

With high-tech automatics like this, I don't think I'll ever go back to stick.

[blacksan]

Well, I've always driven a stick, and that's what I wanted when I went out shopping for my Yaris.

But the dealer only had one Yaris, and it was an automatic!

Guess what? After struggling with whether to buy it all day, I finally said okay. Best decision I could have made.

I have to say... I love the automatic! It's quiet, responsive, upshifts and downshifts flawlessly, and it's fun to drive. Hey, the gas mileage is basically the same as the stick.

With high-tech automatics like this, I don't think I'll ever go back to stick.



The only automatic I like is my VW, Passat, 4 Motion. Why, because I can bang the stick like a manual. Hey, I am not a kid and can remember the 60's. If you like the auto good on you, but I will stick with da stick!:biggrin:

[kimona]

Hey, Blacksan, we seem to be having a few conversations going here!

Anyway, I grew up in Canada, and I owned and rebuilt every British sport car you can think of from Bug-eye Sprites to E-type Jags to Sunbeam Tigers.

Don't get me wrong, I love sticks. Heck, I still own and drive a couple and I wouldn't trade them for automatics.

But, this Yaris automatic is really a great little tranny. I'm just so surprised how well it performs.

[blacksan]

Hey, Blacksan, we seem to be having a few conversations going here!

Anyway, I grew up in Canada, and I owned and rebuilt every British sport car you can think of from Bug-eye Sprites to E-type Jags to Sunbeam Tigers.

Don't get me wrong, I love sticks. Heck, I still own and drive a couple and I wouldn't trade them for automatics.

But, this Yaris automatic is really a great little tranny. I'm just so surprised how well it performs.

I hear ya!:biggrin:

[churp]

I grew up on a farm learning to drive heavy equipment before I could read and write properly. having said that an automatic will never give you the control a manual transmission will. Now, if you do not have the nuance to take advantage of making your equipment perform to the optimum choose the slush box.

Just stating my O....grew up on the farm with Johny poppers, an old H, and the old granny low pickup. Just believe in some instances an auto can be considered in the same category as ABS brakes.....for most of us it's a safety factor, with a 5 speed I wouldn't normally shift to 2nd or 3rd while passing anticipating someone suddenly appearing head on. IMO ABS and an Auto aren't for fun or racing, but they make sense in everyday driving. Would have picked standard for my Yaris if I didn't have other toys.

[BailOut]

I bought a manual for 2 reasons:

1) I live in a mountainous area and have a mountainous commute, and nothing trashes an automatic transmission faster than listening to it fighting with itself over which gear to hold on quickly changing grades. Sure, you can always force it into a gear, but if I'm handling the shifter like that I may as well just have a standard and have full control all of the time.

2) I bought the Yaris with the specific plan of hypermiling it, and a manual transmission makes things like extended engine braking for a fuel cut-off, bump starting in a high gear, RPM matching for ICE re-entry after a FAS, Pulse & Glide, etc. much easier to accomplish.


My record tank so far was 52.095 MPG. I don't think I could have done quite that well with an automatic.

[brickhardmeat]

I bought a manual for 2 reasons:

1) I live in a mountainous area and have a mountainous commute, and nothing trashes an automatic transmission faster than listening to it fighting with itself over which gear to hold on quickly changing grades. Sure, you can always force it into a gear, but if I'm handling the shifter like that I may as well just have a standard and have full control all of the time.

2) I bought the Yaris with the specific plan of hypermiling it, and a manual transmission makes things like extended engine braking for a fuel cut-off, bump starting in a high gear, RPM matching for ICE re-entry after a FAS, Pulse & Glide, etc. much easier to accomplish.


My record tank so far was 52.095 MPG. I don't think I could have done quite that well with an automatic.


yes but your body requires more organic food to shift those gears and also this causes your body to have to work harder leading to more use of the a/c and not to mention the fuel it takes to grow/deliver that organic food that you eat and the truck that gets it to the grocery store and the energy to keep it fresh and so on and so fourth:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[BailOut]

yes but your body requires more organic food to shift those gears and also this causes your body to have to work harder leading to more use of the a/c and not to mention the fuel it takes to grow/deliver that organic food that you eat and the truck that gets it to the grocery store and the energy to keep it fresh and so on and so fourth:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
The only two times my a/c has been on since I got this car in February of this year was when the wife insisted on it on our drive to and from Vegas, when she was loaded up on post-op pain pills that made her feel hot. My window tint, sun screen and keeping the windows cracked helps keep it cool, and commuting over a 9,000ft. mountain pass every day doesn't hurt in that aspect, either.

It takes no more fuel to get my groceries to me than it does to get yours to you. The sad fact is most of us don't get local food, and you definitely aren't getting any local food at all if you get your groceries at Wal-Mart. The only time I'm sure I'm getting local food is from the seasonal farmer's markets.

You burned a few milligrams of brain-food glucose, and at least 1 calorie with your fingers, making that post, by the way. Not very efficient of you! :wink:

[brickhardmeat]

The only two times my a/c has been on since I got this car in February of this year was when the wife insisted on it on our drive to and from Vegas, when she was loaded up on post-op pain pills that made her feel hot. My window tint, sun screen and keeping the windows cracked helps keep it cool, and commuting over a 9,000ft. mountain pass every day doesn't hurt in that aspect, either.

It takes no more fuel to get my groceries to me than it does to get yours to you. The sad fact is most of us don't get local food, and you definitely aren't getting any local food at all if you get your groceries at Wal-Mart. The only time I'm sure I'm getting local food is from the seasonal farmer's markets.

You burned a few milligrams of brain-food glucose, and at least 1 calorie with your fingers, making that post, by the way. Not very efficient of you! :wink:

I'm just messing with you buddy. I don't buy my groceries at wal mart. I go to various stores for groceries and -never- buy my produce at wal mart as a matter of fact. That is where I get stuff like toilet paper, dog food, shampoo, tooth paste, deoderant, some vitamins and some clothes. They sell Dickies at wal mart. There is a Whole Foods market a block from my house and I also go to other grocer's. We have a Farmer's Market but I never make time for that.

[blacksan]

Just stating my O....grew up on the farm with Johny poppers, an old H, and the old granny low pickup. Just believe in some instances an auto can be considered in the same category as ABS brakes.....for most of us it's a safety factor, with a 5 speed I wouldn't normally shift to 2nd or 3rd while passing anticipating someone suddenly appearing head on. IMO ABS and an Auto aren't for fun or racing, but they make sense in everyday driving. Would have picked standard for my Yaris if I didn't have other toys.

I have an auto (Tiptronic) luxury car and really feel that it moves me away from being a driver and makes me a rider. If true safety was our concern in this country then we should ban cell phones when driving, remove the radio & cup holders and require annual driver testing which requires written, oral and practical driving skills. Most folks (IMO) are piss poor drivers that do not concentrate any further then there own hood ornament. It seems as if though there is an automatic device in many cars that inverts the rectum with the cranium when the drivers seat senses any sort of weight placement.

BTW, the current gen ABS, or traction control I do enjoy. The first few attempts (80's) where terrible as you had in essences anti-breaking under certain conditions such a packed snow. You simply kept rolling through intersections/red lights with those wonderful designs.

[grampi]

The only reason for which I would recommend the auto over the manual is if most of the driving would be in heavy stop and go traffic. For all other situations, the manual is far superior. The auto doesn't just "feel" sluggish compared to the manual, it "is" more sluggish. The manual loses less power through the drivetrain than does the auto therefore it puts more power to the pavement. Also, manuals are more durable, are less prone to failure, and are less expensive to fix if they do require maintenance.

[gaffo]

Manual give more power - but NOT more durable IMO.

My Acura Automatic (which i loathe) has 230K on it. Automatic tranny - never changed the fluid - not servicing at all.

Many other two manuals I had - both had to have cluctch cable and/or master cylinders (both master and slave) replace/rebuilt.

Tr7 had to have a whole new cluctch replaced also - at 70K

clutch plates always need to be resurfaced/replaced way before 230K.

[brickhardmeat]

:redface:

[blacksan]

:redface:

+1

[grampi]

Manual give more power - but NOT more durable IMO.

My Acura Automatic (which i loathe) has 230K on it. Automatic tranny - never changed the fluid - not servicing at all.

Many other two manuals I had - both had to have cluctch cable and/or master cylinders (both master and slave) replace/rebuilt.

Tr7 had to have a whole new cluctch replaced also - at 70K

clutch plates always need to be resurfaced/replaced way before 230K.

Not true. I've seen many, many vehicles with manual trannies go 300K+ without ever having to touch the tranny. If you're a big time clutch slipper maybe, but I think most people will get many more miles from a manual. You can look at any reliability data and it clearly shows automatics just don't hold up as well. Even if it did go, a clutch replacement is far less expensive than rebuilding an automatic.

[ECHOKnight2000]

I bought a manual for 2 reasons:


My record tank so far was 52.095 MPG. I don't think I could have done quite that well with an automatic.


I know I don't have a Yaris but my ECHO is an auto and I've gotten that 50plus mileage before, more than once. The warmer wheather helps. Of course my car is lighter but I know other cars are capable of this as you mentioned with your Yaris.:thumbsup:

[Unknown_Epiphany]

My best tank yet in my 07 Yaris Sedan was 43.96 MPG. I am not a hypermiler by any stretch of the imagination. I don't gun the engine and always stay in the realm of 2200-2600 RPM. In all honesty I don't even know how to use DFCO and i just coast in drive to almost all of the stopsigns and lights. My Fiancee harasses me as well do my co workers but I refuse to buy a wasteful package size increasing supposed badass car.

Also, Walmart is the devil to the American dream and the American way of life. It should always be quality and a reasonable price not a cheap as dirt price and poor quality.

[YarisBlazer]

If we jump 30 years into the future, I think manual will go the way of the dinosaur, at least in the United States; we cannot rely on Mid-East oil forever; I think in the future to have one car will be considered a luxury item; most people will either ride public tranposrt or bicycles, as they do now in China which has over 1 billion people; when the USA has 500+ million people (which it will by 2050) I highly doubt most people will have cars; if they do they'll all be auto transmissions and probably most of them will be ethanol-based, electric, or hybrids; just my 2 cents.

[grampi]

If we jump 30 years into the future, I think manual will go the way of the dinosaur, at least in the United States; we cannot rely on Mid-East oil forever; I think in the future to have one car will be considered a luxury item; most people will either ride public tranposrt or bicycles, as they do now in China which has over 1 billion people; when the USA has 500+ million people (which it will by 2050) I highly doubt most people will have cars; if they do they'll all be auto transmissions and probably most of them will be ethanol-based, electric, or hybrids; just my 2 cents.

I agree with some of your post. I do believe the look of transportation will be vastly different 30 years from now and the internal combustion engine will be a thing of the past. However, it will be easier to convert over to battery powered, or hydrogen powered vehicles than it would be to change the entire structure of our transportation system. People will still have to drive just as much, they just won't be driving gas powered cars.

[brickhardmeat]

agreed, people will just be driving smaller, more efficient, alternatively fueld vehicles in more heavily conjested cities

that is unless we are enslaved to the chinese:biggrin:
or nuked off the face of the earth:frown:

[MudBug]

I bought the AT for all the convenience reasons listed. I thought this little car was just gonna be a daily driver, a means to get around town, nothing more. But I found out that it's actually really fun to drive, there are times I really wish I would have bought the MT.

[Shroomster]

can I say this...if either manuals, or automatics were so unreliable, all the time, as is what everyone is trying to prove or disprove, then there would be no manual or automatic transmissions..there'd obviously be a need for flintstones' type of drivetrains...can we please get back on topic here?


I believe if he is seriously having doubts (as it sounds that you are too) about his driving/shifting capabilities, then I would say go for an automatic transmission. maybe it will be more sluggish, but hell were talking about an economy car, the performance add ons and such are for those who bought an economy car for sporting reasons.

you're looking to buy a car for the sole purpose of putting a person who is nearing the end of their driving life into something they want to feel safe driving while at the same time know they are not guzling gas or worrying about maintenace.

do what feels right for the both of you.

that is my piece.

[petesimac]

Why don't you just ask the gentleman what his preference is? Some like auto; some like manual; some just don't give a damn. There's no right answer here, just a personal preference.

[churp]

I have an auto (Tiptronic) luxury car and really feel that it moves me away from being a driver and makes me a rider. If true safety was our concern in this country then we should ban cell phones when driving, remove the radio & cup holders and require annual driver testing which requires written, oral and practical driving skills. Most folks (IMO) are piss poor drivers that do not concentrate any further then there own hood ornament. It seems as if though there is an automatic device in many cars that inverts the rectum with the cranium when the drivers seat senses any sort of weight placement.

BTW, the current gen ABS, or traction control I do enjoy. The first few attempts (80's) where terrible as you had in essences anti-breaking under certain conditions such a packed snow. You simply kept rolling through intersections/red lights with those wonderful designs.

Agree with everything you say here, just that I like auto in my dd.

[Thotprawsis]

It's a matter of preference...I like to do more than just sit behind the wheel. My vote is manual!

[brickhardmeat]

It's a matter of preference...I like to do more than just sit behind the wheel. My vote is manual!

I usually steer mine. Your probably one of those annoying people who talks on their phone, eh:rolleyes:

[grampi]

brick

Why are you so sarcastic to everyone? Is it just your nature?

[kurokoma-kun]

brick

Why are you so sarcastic to everyone? Is it just your nature?

"What I claim is to live to the full the contradiction of my time, which may well make sarcasm the condition of truth."
--Roland Barthes

:wink:

[TLyttle]

I ran Morris Minors for 30 years or so, and (unlike others) I found them fun to drive, even in hohum commuter traffic. I never had to replace the clutch in any of them, unlike nearly every TR7 I ever ran across!

We bought the Yaris for the same reasons as the Minor: cheap to buy, cheap to run, cheap to fix, and reliable. The only thing I don't see on the Yaris that I had on the Minor is a crank hole in the bumper... Hopefully, I will never need it, either.

Right now we have an old Volvo auto wagon, and it does much of what we want, but (like me) it is getting old. As far as automatics go, this one (Borg Warner?) does the job better than any other I have driven. These days, everything is computer-operated, but I am not ready to have a chip tell me when to shift, thanks very much!

[mikeukrainetz]

Ive probably owned more manuals than autos - always prefered manuals and always will - (replaced way too many neglected autos for a pretty penny).

Admitedly this is the oddest manual Ive driven, the hardest to get used and the weakest. I much prefer the manual in the Yaris since I drove both but have had way too much experience in old tiny HB with autos trying desperately to get going or keep up with traffic in their later days.

Some of the older autos didnt have overdrive so you would max them out at like 100km/h and it would sound like your running in neutral with your foot to the floor... but anway.

Even with its quirks I prefer the manual.

That being said most of my driving is inner city, lots of stop and go and sometimes the manual is just a plain PITA.

[tekmoe]

all 3 cars i have owned (86 vw gti, 02 toyota corolla, 07 toyota yaris) have all been manual transmission.

i don't know how to drive an automatic. :laugh:

[clayky]

all 3 cars i have owned (86 vw gti, 02 toyota corolla, 07 toyota yaris) have all been manual transmission.

i don't know how to drive an automatic. :laugh:

Me either! Unless the car has at least 250hp, I'd never consider an auto and probably not even then.

[15thJuneYarisNamedHaris]

I have been driving an auto (79 Volvo station wagon :laugh: ) since I got my license 7 years ago. I did LEARN to drive in a manual. I ordered a manual yaris but I am a bit worried my driving will be ridiculous for the first few weeks!! :eyebulge: Not to mention the very first day when I pick it up and have to drive it 60km from the central city to the countryside!! :burnrubber:

(wish me luck!! :smile: )

[thomasward00]

I hate to sound negative, I love my yaris but it is not a performance car, nor will it ever be, putting engine mods on this car is a waste of money, thats why I chose an auto. For performance cars then I love manuals.

[Vanderkitten]

I hate to sound negative, I love my yaris but it is not a performance car, nor will it ever be, putting engine mods on this car is a waste of money, thats why I chose an auto. For performance cars then I love manuals.

After a day at the track, I must disagree. With the right mods, the Yaris is a very capable performance car. It will not win any drag races, but you can carry econo-defying corner speed! The SCCA coaches moved me and the Jelly Bean to the Advanced group at the HPDE last week, and that, my friend, is not a lie.

With $2200 into the car, it can corner extremely well. I think that put me at $14,900 (wheels/tires, Megan coil-overs, Weapon-R intake) invested and, well, it out-cornered <insert exotic car here> most of the cars in the B-Group. (There were some I never saw). Read my post about the SCCA school.

So, therefore, I say manual. :headbang:

[churp]

To the original post.....you mention the person interested in the car was having a few problems shifting but still wanted high milage....I recomend the automatic for 2 reasons.

1) The gated shifter works so well that it would be nearly impossible to accidently go from drive into another gear....you can only go from drive to neutral or third without intentionaly trying to get it into another gear, plus with any automatic you put it in drive and go, right? (not very hard).

2) After breaking in, I am now getting 40 to 42 mpg consistantly (most of my driving is open highway which I drive 55-60mph, 55 limit), and driving a manual, without good shifting ability, I doubt he would do that well.

Good luck on your purchase. (I'm 56 in case that matters)

[churp]

Addition to above: I feel this auto works very well and power is not an issue (like it was a few years back) unless racing or doing a little hotdogging.

As far as reliability I've seen 2 posts on the manual....bad synchro, and a broken tranny mount....I haven't seen any posts on problems with the automatic yet (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

[Kioshi]

Welll if you are a quick learner and want to feel like your actually driving with the fact your right hand is doing something other than holding your cell phone, soda, etc......then go w/ manual. And if you want to feel some spunk to your car :)

My Yaris is my first manual pretty much....although I've had a 1 on 1 practice of a manual WRX STi....

The only thing is you have to kick the clutch pedal like theres no tomorrow. With the STI, i had to ease off the cluth semi slowly and i would have smooth ride upshifting..BUT w/ the Yaris i have to slowly let off the clutch. But Dont let off the clutch too slowly as it might damage the cluth plates or something..as told by my mechanic~

[churp]

I'm in a situation where I'm assisting another family member in buying a car - this is the first time they've bought a new car in many years (and I've always bought used) so we're not used to having options to pick from. We visited the local Toyota dealer the other day and were pretty sold on the Yaris liftback but the major reason we didn't place an order then and there was because we couldn't decide between automatic and manual transmission.

The primary driver of the car is 55 years old and most of his previous cars have had manual transmission. He lives approximately 50 miles from the dealership and absolutely hates taking a car in for service of any kind (other than oil changes at the local quick lube place), which is one reason we're looking at a Toyota in the first place. He also wants great gas mileage.

But at the same time, he's getting older, and his reflexes aren't what they used to be. We took both a manual and an automatic for a test drive. To me the automatic seemed a bit sluggish in changing gears (but remember I'm not used to automatics either) and it seemed like there were only three gears in getting up to 55 (maybe I missed a gear change). But, he had no trouble driving it at all. With the manual transmission, he did okay, but his current car is a four-speed manual. Maybe that is why a couple times he accidentally downshifted into 3rd when he was actually trying to go into 5th, and I could see that really bothered him. So I guess the bottom line is, he likes the convenience of not having to shift (though that's not a major issue at this point) but he also worries that an automatic will require more maintenance and/or have significantly lower gas mileage.

He is the type that will take a car in at recommended service intervals (at least in the first year or two) but other than that he sort of treats auto shops as though he might catch the bubonic plague by walking inside one (his biggest problem is that he hates to sit around and wait anywhere - he avoids doctors' visits for the same reason) - which might be fine IF he were mechanically inclined, but he isn't (one reason he's ready to trade in his current car is because he's having to add oil ONCE between 3,000 mile trips to the quick oil change place, and he doesn't like to get under the hood at all). So I'm thinking a Toyota is definitely the best choice for him, but wonder which transmission would be the best option. Believe it or not, that choice is the only reason an order hasn't been placed for the Yaris. He can't make up his mind, and I don't know enough about Toyota transmissions to make an informed suggestion.

As long as I'm posting this, I have two other things to ask. First, is there any significant reason that anyone knows of that we might want to wait for the 2008 models to come out? And second, is there anything we should specifically ask of the dealer - in other words, can the dealers offer any discounts, rebates, additions, etc. that you only get if you know enough to ask for them? We're in Michigan, if that makes any difference.

Hope no one minds me bumping the 1st post here!! :smile:

[njyaris]

manual tranny .. is the way to go when driving a 1.5 liter 4 banger! .. how else do you expect to pass cars when needed? .. i won't lie I almost bought the auto

[brickhardmeat]

manual tranny .. is the way to go when driving a 1.5 liter 4 banger! .. how else do you expect to pass cars when needed? .. i won't lie I almost bought the auto

I am not a race car driver and I have nothing to prove on the road:tongue: but this car has no passing problems with the auto tranny, I applaud all of you manual drivers for your multi-tasking abilities however the auto is great, I hang in traffic just fine without the stick

[grampi]

I hate to sound negative, I love my yaris but it is not a performance car, nor will it ever be, putting engine mods on this car is a waste of money, thats why I chose an auto. For performance cars then I love manuals.

You couldn't be any more wrong. You want a manual tranny ESPECIALLY in a car like the Yaris. With a car like the Yaris that has so little HP, you want to get as much of that power to the pavement as possible. There is more power lost through the driveline with an automatic, so a manual is the only way to go.

[kimona]

You couldn't be any more wrong. You want a manual tranny ESPECIALLY in a car like the Yaris. With a car like the Yaris that has so little HP, you want to get as much of that power to the pavement as possible. There is more power lost through the driveline with an automatic, so a manual is the only way to go.

ENTIRELY MISLEADING AND ABSOLUTE BLOODY NONSENSE!

You're living in the dark ages when automatic transmissions "lost power" through the design of the torque converters. That isn't the case today with Toyota's automatic transmissions.

In fact, many of today's automatic transmissions are every bit as quick as manuals, and are often quicker!

Don't be afraid to step on the Yaris' accelerator and you'll match the stick shift through the quarter mile, and you'll the clean the manual if the driver is even slightly off shift.

The only place, you may wish you had a manual is on the circuit when entering and exiting corners. But, even there, you can manually shift the Yaris' automatic tranny with some impressive performance.

There may be something positive to be said for the manual shift re drifting if the Yaris were a rear wheel drive car... but that's a moot point.

Furthermore, the Toyota automatic is every bit as fuel efficient and reliable as the manual, and over the long run will cost less to maintain.

Indeed, most Yaris automatics are getting better gas mileage than manual shifts due to the driving habits, capabilities, or inexperience of manual shift drivers.

Any argument against purchasing the automatic transmission in favour of the manual shift based on superior performance, better gas mileage, or reliabilty is just plain uninformed foolishness!

The only viable reason for purchasing a manual transmission is the simple fact that you like to shift and/or it makes you feel one with the car and more in control on the road. However; these are all purely psychological factors that not all drivers can relate to.

[lubaloy]

At the ripe old age of 45+, I guess I am nearing the end of my driving life as well.

Add the fact that I have Multiple Sclerosis (http://www.nationalmssociety.org/), and I guess it must be my next -- or maybe last -- incarnation typing this.

Even so, I bought a new 5-SPEED 2007 HB just a little over a week ago, and I could not be happier.

It's been a very long time since I went for a drive just because, and I am grateful to TOYOTA for such a wonderful gift.

Even for a geezer gimp like me, a big part of the fun is shifting through the gears. :thumbsup:

YMMV.

~~~ lubaloy ~~~

[hystria]

I would recommend the automatic transmission for the Yaris. On the manual transmission the clutch is hard to work with, especially in heavy city driving. In city driving the automatic transmission would give better fuel mileage as it computes the best shifting point better that a driver could do with a manual transmission.

[Shroomster]

so what has the original poster decided on?

[brickhardmeat]

honda:bellyroll:

[KwonSau]

The only viable reason for purchasing a manual transmission is the simple fact that you like to shift and/or it makes you feel one with the car and more in control on the road. However; these are all purely psychological factors that not all drivers can relate to.

I'll concede that these are the primary reasons my last three cars have been manuals (including the Yaris).
:burnrubber:

[Vanderkitten]

I didn't read all of the posts, but a manual transmission is more capable of performance oriented driving than a manual, in any car, especially an econobox. The HP to the wheels is greater with a manual, the car is faster and also tends to be lighter.

In a city, an Auto is preferable, but I want performance first, so I went with the manual. But this car is not a performance car out of the box, and if you are not going to try and make it so, the AUTO gives you the ability to chat or one-handed text and drive all day long.

I would imagine resale will be better on the Auto as well.

[Edd]

the AUTO gives you the ability to chat or one-handed text and drive all day long.

Anyone who buys automatic for this reason is completely self indulgent and should NOT be on the road. It's dangerous and illegal, actually worse than being at 0.08 BAC.
The problem is, whether you are looking at the phone or otherwise, your concentration on the road and your surroundings is broken and you put other people at risk. This applies to handsfree as well (but it's not AS bad and is actually legal).

[Motorhead6T5]

ENTIRELY MISLEADING AND ABSOLUTE BLOODY NONSENSE!

You're living in the dark ages when automatic transmissions "lost power" through the design of the torque converters. That isn't the case today with Toyota's automatic transmissions.

In fact, many of today's automatic transmissions are every bit as quick as manuals, and are often quicker!

Don't be afraid to step on the Yaris' accelerator and you'll match the stick shift through the quarter mile, and you'll the clean the manual if the driver is even slightly off shift.

The only place, you may wish you had a manual is on the circuit when entering and exiting corners. But, even there, you can manually shift the Yaris' automatic tranny with some impressive performance.

There may be something positive to be said for the manual shift re drifting if the Yaris were a rear wheel drive car... but that's a moot point.

Furthermore, the Toyota automatic is every bit as fuel efficient and reliable as the manual, and over the long run will cost less to maintain.

Indeed, most Yaris automatics are getting better gas mileage than manual shifts due to the driving habits, capabilities, or inexperience of manual shift drivers.

Any argument against purchasing the automatic transmission in favour of the manual shift based on superior performance, better gas mileage, or reliabilty is just plain uninformed foolishness!

The only viable reason for purchasing a manual transmission is the simple fact that you like to shift and/or it makes you feel one with the car and more in control on the road. However; these are all purely psychological factors that not all drivers can relate to.


http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/Spec_Glance.aspx?year=2007&make=Toyota&model=Yaris&trimid=-1

If you would click this link you will see a performance section,compare the sedan m/t with the sedan a/t.


M/T 0-60=8.84 1/4 mile=16.97 1/4 mile trap speed=84.00
A/T 0-60=10.29 1/4 mile=17.96 1/4 mile trap speed=77.30

That almost 7 mph difference shows a huge differance in power put down to the ground,and the 1 sec quicker in the 1/4 seals the deal.


You can tell yourself whatever you want to help yourself sleep at night though.:thumbup:

[Irishlass]

I'll chime in on this one! A newby here and manual all the way. I'm giving the mice under the hood all the help I can. I can see automatic if you're stuck in a lot of stop and go traffic..... :rolleyes:

[kimona]

http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/Spec_Glance.aspx?year=2007&make=Toyota&model=Yaris&trimid=-1

If you would click this link you will see a performance section,compare the sedan m/t with the sedan a/t.


M/T 0-60=8.84 1/4 mile=16.97 1/4 mile trap speed=84.00
A/T 0-60=10.29 1/4 mile=17.96 1/4 mile trap speed=77.30

That almost 7 mph difference shows a huge differance in power put down to the ground,and the 1 sec quicker in the 1/4 seals the deal.


You can tell yourself whatever you want to help yourself sleep at night though.:thumbup:

Unfortunately, most manual shift drivers are not competent enough to match these 1/4 mile times. For the vast majority of drivers, the automatic transmission will prove faster and more fuel efficient.

Listen, I'm not knocking manual transmissions. I've owned and rebuilt dozens of imports with manual transmissions. I still own and regularly drive several lovingly cared for sport cars; bugeye Sprite, Sunbeam Tiger, Cooper S, and MR2. I enjoy driving with the manual transmision in each of these cars.

I also raced Class "C" sedan all over Canada for many years, so I fully appreciate the performance and driveability of manual transmissions.

But the Yaris is not a sport car, and most drivers are not sport car enthusiasts, but just regular guys looking for a neat little fuel efficient car that they can add a few well chosen accessories to make it look more sporty.

After test-driving the Yaris stick shift, I was dissapointed; this is not a performance tranny and clutch... far far from it! Sure you can make some mods to modestly improve it, but it will never...

Anyway, what I am saying is that for most owners, the Yaris is a daily driver, and the automatic transmission just makes more sense. Period.

[Motorhead6T5]

Unfortunately, most manual shift drivers are not competent enough to match these 1/4 mile times. For the vast majority of drivers, the automatic transmission will prove faster and more fuel efficient.

Listen, I'm not knocking manual transmissions. I've owned and rebuilt dozens of imports with manual transmissions. I still own and regularly drive several lovingly cared for sport cars; bugeye Sprite, Sunbeam Tiger, Cooper S, and MR2. I enjoy driving with the manual transmision in each of these cars.

I also raced Class "C" sedan all over Canada for many years, so I fully appreciate the performance and driveability of manual transmissions.

But the Yaris is not a sport car, and most drivers are not sport car enthusiasts, but just regular guys looking for a neat little fuel efficient car that they can add a few well chosen accessories to make it look more sporty.

After test-driving the Yaris stick shift, I was dissapointed; this is not a performance tranny and clutch... far far from it! Sure you can make some mods to modestly improve it, but it will never...

Anyway, what I am saying is that for most owners, the Yaris is a daily driver, and the automatic transmission just makes more sense. Period.I agree MOST people are faster in an auto,But thats cause most people can't drive well. I was just rebuting the fact that you said with modern tech autos are just as fast even the yaris.

Don't get me wrong,I have a manual valve bodied th350 in my chevelle,but that thing has so much power its more about getting it to the ground consistantly.

If you got a yaris purely for mpg and comfort than yes it would be dumb to get a manual. However if you bought it with the plans to use it for performance use, its dumb to get the auto.

The manual yaris isn't all that slow,I keep hearing people say oh its a econo box it will never be fast,yet you hear this from people with slush box autos that are 1 second behind in the 1/4(10 car lengths). Of course you think the car is slow,you bought the power sucking AUTO thats doing 7mph slower at the end of a 1/4 mile.

You will dump all kinds of money into an auto just to get it to the performance levels of a stock manual. I went through the same thing on 1 of my 5.0 mustangs with an aod.

[joe keeney]

My a/t finds the right gears fast and easy. On test ride watch the cool light shifts easy after lights out. go for the a/t.

[KYYaris]

***1st post***

I love my new Yaris. Just bought a red 07 liftback w/power package and keyless. Let me tell you my story.

I have been following the Yaris since the early days of the Echo in the US. When the water pump on my 92 deville went out (only had 88000 miles), I went to Toyota of Louisville and test-drove the auto-liftback.

It sucked.

It was very slow, and it felt very sluggish off the line. I had never driven a manual and didn't want to learn (especially on a new car). So, I gave up.

I loved the Yaris so much, I learned to drive on my mother-in-law's saturn sc2. I got the hang of it (somewhat) and decided to try the manual on for size.

I went back to the dealer, and they had one manual. It was sitting in the back of their lot, facing away from the building, like a pouting step-child. Since my original visit, they had sold 11 new cars - 7 of them being Yari - all autos.

My manual-enthusiast buddy and I stepped into the 5spd liftback. I took off. It was a bit sketchy at first, but a funny thing happened on the test drive. I stalled it out while turning around ina neighborhood, and a blue mazda bb series pickup got behind me and started revving his engine. That pissed me off. I slowly put the car into 1st, and TOOK OFF. I spun tires for a moment and got up to about 20 mph and then chirped them in 2nd :burnrubber: .

The manual was exponentially more noticeably powerful that the auto. That was enough for me to make my decision - I will never drive an automatic again.

[brickhardmeat]

***1st post***

I love my new Yaris. Just bought a red 07 liftback w/power package and keyless. Let me tell you my story.

I have been following the Yaris since the early days of the Echo in the US. When the water pump on my 92 deville went out (only had 88000 miles), I went to Toyota of Louisville and test-drove the auto-liftback.

It sucked.

It was very slow, and it felt very sluggish off the line. I had never driven a manual and didn't want to learn (especially on a new car). So, I gave up.

I loved the Yaris so much, I learned to drive on my mother-in-law's saturn sc2. I got the hang of it (somewhat) and decided to try the manual on for size.

I went back to the dealer, and they had one manual. It was sitting in the back of their lot, facing away from the building, like a pouting step-child. Since my original visit, they had sold 11 new cars - 7 of them being Yari - all autos.

My manual-enthusiast buddy and I stepped into the 5spd liftback. I took off. It was a bit sketchy at first, but a funny thing happened on the test drive. I stalled it out while turning around ina neighborhood, and a blue mazda bb series pickup got behind me and started revving his engine. That pissed me off. I slowly put the car into 1st, and TOOK OFF. I spun tires for a moment and got up to about 20 mph and then chirped them in 2nd :burnrubber: .

The manual was exponentially more noticeably powerful that the auto. That was enough for me to make my decision - I will never drive an automatic again.:laughabove: :bellyroll: :bs: