Didn't buy; awkward shifting?

[drmitch]

Hey all

Well, I did not get the Yaris hatch this weekend. I test drove the red 5 spd and once again was struck by how awkward the shifting is, compared to the Miata. It's not that the shifter itself isn't good; it's just that the reach is odd, especially into 2nd gear. I suppose one could get used to it but...does anyone else find the shifting awkward? In the hour stop-and-go daily commute home, that could get old fast. For that reason, I'm reconsidering the A/T but...not sure. A local dealer had the A/T for $11,988 this past weekend but I didn't know about it until this a.m.

I'm also considering the Smart ForTwo...I'd love to have a back seat after 7 yrs in the Miata but...the Smart has such a fun, unique look and the word is it's going to achieve close to 50 mpg fwy, 40 city...official numbers are 40 fwy but general consensus is it'll do better than that.

Thoughts?

[BailOut]

The shifting issue is a personal one, so only you can decide.

The Smart Fortwo is a horrible purchase. It has no back seat, the same emissions as the Yaris, the same fuel economy as the Yaris, 1 less star on its crash rating, etc., but costs more than a Yaris. Not exactly a lot of bang for the buck.

Let's also not forget that Smart is owned by Daimler-Chrylser-Benz, which is in the process of being bought by Cerebrus, who has already promised to shake up what's left of that conglomerate as soon as the transaction completes. No one knows what their stance on the Smart line will be. They may just eliminate it, leaving you with some half-assed 3rd party service contract in place of a warranty.

[Black Yaris]

you get used to the shifting... plus there are short shifters that help
http://www.twmperformance.com/shortshifters/toyotashortshifters/toyotayaris-2006-shortshifters.htm
or the linkage short shifter
http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6258&highlight=NST+SSK
either/or improve the shifting experience for minimal amount of money

[ChinoCharles]

I also found the placement of the stock shifter on the Yaris a little odd. I felt like I had to reach too far upward to get a grip, so I chopped her down. However, I could have and would have got used to the stock shifter.

I'm not buying the hype about the Smart. With semi trailers, Escalades, Sierras, and all the other gargantuan vehicles on US roads, I don't feel like the Smart makes any sense. Even the Yaris is pushing it. I don't care how many stars they give it... logic tells me you don't want to be in a car that small during an accident.

If I were you I would strongly consider the A/T. Sure, it isn't as much fun, but it sounds like you're looking for a commuter anyway.

[ALY]

I also considered the smart for two; however, I opted for the Yaris for the following reasons:

Lower Interest Rate
Lower Monthly Payments
More room if I need it (I came from a 2 seater as well)
More Power (Smart = 0-60 in 19.2 sec)
TOYOTA Reliability
Toyota Maintenance is cheapest in industry

After taking the lower monthly payments of the Yaris and both cars (expected Fuel Economy)... The Yaris worked out to be $5 cheaper per month.

I did all this research/ purchasing prior to working for TOYOTA. Also Compare (In Canada) the number of used Yaris vs number of Smart Cars.

As for Manual Transmission... I found it tough to get used to as well; however, after a week, you will be a pro.

[Black Yaris]

if you are thinking about a smart watch this and think again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju6t-yyoU8s

[kurokoma-kun]

The shift throw in Miata is one of the shortest ever, anything seems long in comparison. I got used to it, but am still putting a short shift kit on there.

Other different thing about shifting is your angle of approach is different; Miata has cockpit style seat position, Yaris has very upright, dining room chair type position :laugh:

Also, the Miata has a direct linkage shifter whereas the Yaris has "fly by wire" type. This is never gonna give you the same responsiveness.

The thing that bugged me most was the friction point on the clutch. In Miata it's up really high, in Yaris it's like 1/2" off the floor. For me this meant a lot of tire squeal on launch, especially with those shitty stock tires; for others it means lots of stalling. Again, you get used to it quickly.

But if you have had a Miata for a while I'm sure you are not afraid to get the revs way up there--you really can flog the Yaris' thrashy lil engine if'n you want to :tongue:

[kimona]

I owned 2 Miatas. The Yaris stick/clutch doesn't even begin to compare to the Miata.

There was a time, not too long ago, when I wouldn't even consider buying a car with an automatic transmission. But, the Yaris changed my mind; it's my frirst small car with an automatic, and I love it!

I first drove the Yaris/Vitz (both stick and auto) in Japan ( I lived there for 6 years). I fell in love with the car's design and function then, but didn't care much for the stick/clutch. Most Japanese, even the young guys, opt for the automatic.

Later, I test drove the Yaris here in the States several times before buying.
I really made an effort to sell myself on the stick, and I kept returning to the dealer to try one more time before making the final decision. The automatic won out.

The automatic performs extremely well up-shifting and down-shifting smoothly at precisely the right points for a daily driver. Plus, you can manual shift it if you so desire. It's quick, quiet, and responsive.

Under ideal conditions the auto will get just 1 mile per gallon less than the stick. However, I believe most drivers will obtain better mileage with the automatic tranny for 2 reasons: (1) most drivers are not highly skilled with a manual shift, regardless how long they've been driving a stick; and (2) many drivers with a stick tend to drive the car a little harder and therefore use more gas.

Sure, you can make a few good mods to improve the Yaris' manual shift, but it will never be a great driving experience, and it will never be a Miata.

If it's a toss up between manual vs. auto, then go for the automatic.

[Motorhead6T5]

I drove mustang 5 speeds my whole life so the forward shifter position didn't bother me much,is night and day to my 05 stang though,I loved the placement on that shifter and it never needed a short throw.

But I got use to the yaris,even the steering wheel thats realy far forward for me(6'1). On short on ramps I couldn't imagine trying to get up to speed in time with an auto. The 5speed at wide open throttle is just enough to not get killed somtimes lol. In town autos are king though.

[kimona]

Hey, Motorhead, I've think we've had this conversation before. You're obviously a driver, and in fact, so am I.

But, we agreed before that most are not skilled stick shift drivers, and for them the Yaris would perform better in all respects with an automatic than stick.

We also discuused the fact that the manual shift Yaris is indeed 1 second quicker in the 1/4 mile than the automatic, but this is for drivers skilled on the track. For most, the automatic will prove faster (and more fuel efficient than the stick).

So, let's not mislead those just looking for a good daily driver. Let's not make it sound like the car can't get out of it's own way with the automatic because that just isn't so. With a heavy foot, the automatic transmission will perform every bit as well (probably better) than the manual shift... for most drivers anyway.

[WRBlue]

Let's also not forget that Smart is owned by Daimler-Chrylser-Benz, which is in the process of being bought by Cerebrus, who has already promised to shake up what's left of that conglomerate as soon as the transaction completes. No one knows what their stance on the Smart line will be. They may just eliminate it, leaving you with some half-assed 3rd party service contract in place of a warranty.

DaimlerChrylser, as the company used to be known, has only sold the Chrysler Group, which only includes Dodge, Jeep, and Chrysler. All other portions of Diamler stay German - Mercedes, Maybach, Freightliner, MitsubishiFuso, Sterling, and Smart. The new, Chrylser-less Daimler will be known as Daimler AG.

Smart cars, which are not being sold to any other manufacturer, will be sold through United Auto Group dealers. United Auto is Penske's dealer network. Its huge (253 dealerships), and based in Bloomfield Hills. You can see Chrysler's HQ from their design center - I interviewed there last summer.

[kimona]

I drove a Smart for about a week when I lived in Taiwan. Cute, nimble, and easy to park, but it makes the Yaris look and feel like a big car!

The Smart reminded me of a sewing machine!

For my money, I'd stick with Toyota value and reliability.

[sherryberry]

wow the Smart is just way too small for comfort. I'd be afraid what would happen in an accident to the person. I cannot see someone surviving the crash that was shown in that youtube vid.. or else they'll survive with their legs chopped off.

[roxy84]

well, there must be a large number of super skilled 5 speed yaris drivers out there. i just dont think you have to be particularly skilled to get better fuel economy with a manual tranny. when i researched every possible forum discussing the yaris before buying one, the vast majority of drivers getting the real high mileages were driving the 5 speed. i think anyone who has driven a stick most of their life will better the auto fuel economy by more that 1 mpg. my last 2 tanks at 60/40 highway/city were 42.6 mpg and 42.4 mpg, and the car has only 980 miles, so its not even broken in.

fueleconomy.gov users show closer to a 2 mpg disparity between a stick and auto yaris.

agreed, if you bought the stick so you can thrash the little yaris engine or you dont know how to pick the proper shift points for optimal fuel economy, you may not beat the auto tranny mileage.

[drmitch]

Very interesting and helpful replies; thank you. In the video, I doubt we'd be in very good shape in that 70 mph crash in EITHER the Smart or the Yaris...anyway, I'm contacting the dealer who had the auto trans for $11988 to see if they'll still give me that price. If so, I may take the plunge after all...

[Black Yaris]

DaimlerChrylser, as the company used to be known, has only sold the Chrysler Group, which only includes Dodge, Jeep, and Chrysler. All other portions of Diamler stay German - Mercedes, Maybach, Freightliner, MitsubishiFuso, Sterling, and Smart. The new, Chrylser-less Daimler will be known as Daimler AG.

Smart cars, which are not being sold to any other manufacturer, will be sold through United Auto Group dealers. United Auto is Penske's dealer network. Its huge (253 dealerships), and based in Bloomfield Hills. You can see Chrysler's HQ from their design center - I interviewed there last summer.

I wanted to point that out as well... I just did not want to start another fight between BailOut and I

[TLyttle]

I had no problem with the stick itself, placement is always a matter or personal preference. I own a Mustang and an Ominous, no problem with either, and expected the same with the Yaris. Wrong.

The Yaris box/linkage works fine for me, better than the previous vehicles, but it took me a while to get used to the clutch. Now the clutch is broken in, it is fine.

It is the damn throttle that is so vague! Wave your foot over it, and you got another 1,000 rpm, actually touch it, and away it goes, and I hate that. I considered a tougher throttle spring, we'll see what the dealer says. For now, it is the ONLY complaint that I have about the vehicle.

In very many ways, the Yaris reminds me of my old Morris: just plain fun to drive.

[BailOut]

DaimlerChrylser, as the company used to be known, has only sold the Chrysler Group, which only includes Dodge, Jeep, and Chrysler. All other portions of Diamler stay German - Mercedes, Maybach, Freightliner, MitsubishiFuso, Sterling, and Smart. The new, Chrylser-less Daimler will be known as Daimler AG.

Smart cars, which are not being sold to any other manufacturer, will be sold through United Auto Group dealers. United Auto is Penske's dealer network. Its huge (253 dealerships), and based in Bloomfield Hills. You can see Chrysler's HQ from their design center - I interviewed there last summer.

Good to know, and thanks for the corrections. That's what I get for listening to hearsay on that one. :wink:

I'm glad that Chrysler's well-earned fall won't be taking much else down with it.

[Motorhead6T5]

Hey, Motorhead, I've think we've had this conversation before. You're obviously a driver, and in fact, so am I.

But, we agreed before that most are not skilled stick shift drivers, and for them the Yaris would perform better in all respects with an automatic than stick.

We also discuused the fact that the manual shift Yaris is indeed 1 second quicker in the 1/4 mile than the automatic, but this is for drivers skilled on the track. For most, the automatic will prove faster (and more fuel efficient than the stick).

So, let's not mislead those just looking for a good daily driver. Let's not make it sound like the car can't get out of it's own way with the automatic because that just isn't so. With a heavy foot, the automatic transmission will perform every bit as well (probably better) than the manual shift... for most drivers anyway.*sigh**runs back to performance section*

[Black Yaris]

*sigh**runs back to performance section*

I'm with ya.... the Auto is just for the lazy, everything you just quoted from kimona can not be backed up, and the manual trans is the superior trans for the Yaris

[grampi]

From what I remember about my short Yaris 5 speed test drive, its tranny is far smoother than that in my '99 Corolla, which isn't bad. It's closer to the silky smooth manuals found in the Hondas than it is to my Corolla's.

[death is my gift]

At 17, my first car was a standard. I loved it SO much. Then I bought a new car at 21. It was an automatic. I instantly regretted it. I got ANOTHER car at age 24. Another automatic. I traded that in for my Yaris, which is a standard. I adore it. No problems on my end.

[kimona]

I'm with ya.... the Auto is just for the lazy, everything you just quoted from kimona can not be backed up, and the manual trans is the superior trans for the Yaris

That's a lot of crap, man. If you like the stick, great... enjoy it! But some like the auto for good reasons.

[PetersRedYaris]

if you are thinking about a smart watch this and think again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju6t-yyoU8s

If you think a Yaris would fare any better against a concrete wall at 70MPH, you kidding yourself. You'll die in either one just the same. With any small car you need to drive extremley defensivley; I think the only advantage of the Yaris is a little extra power to get out of the way should you need to.

[PetersRedYaris]

I'm with ya.... the Auto is just for the lazy, everything you just quoted from kimona can not be backed up, and the manual trans is the superior trans for the Yaris

Transmission type is purely personal preference. Those of you driving a manual and thinking it's a fast car have lost touch with reality. Their BOTH slow.

[stuffy]

if you are thinking about a smart watch this and think again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju6t-yyoU8s
__________________

wow the Smart is just way too small for comfort. I'd be afraid what would happen in an accident to the person. I cannot see someone surviving the crash that was shown in that youtube vid.. or else they'll survive with their legs chopped off.

the point of that program on youtube was to show how well the smart stood up in a crash with a speed of 80 mp/h into a concrete barrier, the yaris would not have stood up as well in a similar crash.

no one would survive that crash in a smart, yaris and maybe not any other type of larger vehicle because the stop is too sudden for your internal organs to withstand.

[drmitch]

Exactly. I was quite impressed with how the Smart stood up to the impact. Given a fender-bender, it would appear one would be just as safe in the Smart as in any other smaller vehicle. In a 70 mph crash into a concrete wall...I dunno WHAT you'd be "safe" in, or survive in. I'd like to see a side-impact test with the Smart.

[TLyttle]

Good question, drmitch, even survival at that speed becomes a poor option.

[Black Yaris]

If you think a Yaris would fare any better against a concrete wall at 70MPH, you kidding yourself. You'll die in either one just the same. With any small car you need to drive extremley defensivley; I think the only advantage of the Yaris is a little extra power to get out of the way should you need to.

reason I posted that exact video is because is showed another car similar in size to the Yaris... the White car looked like a liveable crash... maybe.... but the Smart.... hell no

[Black Yaris]

Transmission type is purely personal preference. Those of you driving a manual and thinking it's a fast car have lost touch with reality. Their BOTH slow.

but the auto is much more slugish, I test drove the auto when I was decieding on which Yaris, but it just did not have enough balls for me
but yes they are both slow... for now

[Vanderkitten]

As a commuter the Auto is the no-brainer. As an attempt to extract the maximum amount of straight line performance out of the car, the stick is the obvious choice for accelerating AND braking (barring a panic stop).

Corner speed, however, is identical, and I would also agree that those not skilled with proper gear selection, nor caring, should opt for the auto. I have had the luck to run with an automatic Yaris both in the city and on the freeway, and unfortunately, there is no comparison in slow v. slower, the stick is less-slow. =)

The Yaris feel like your sitting on a kiddie booster seat eating cheerios with your hands and no milk... but at the track it surprises a lot of fast cars and a lot Miatas as well (with the right mods).

Again, improve the driver, improve the car... that's the best upgrade!

[gsalsiri]

I've had the Yaris now only for a couple of weeks and found the shifting to be equal if not better to my old Golf's.

[grampi]

but the auto is much more slugish, I test drove the auto when I was decieding on which Yaris, but it just did not have enough balls for me
but yes they are both slow... for now

I agree. The manual definitely accelerates better than the auto.

[eTiMaGo]

I agree, the shifting was awkward at first, especially the clutch, but like most other things in life, it's something you can get used to. I can drive smoother than ever before now :smile:

As mentioned before, in the end, the decision between manual and auto depends entirely on your preference and driving style. i.e., do you drive the car, or do you ride the car?

If you'll just be using the car to get you from point A to point B around town, then an automatic is more than adequate, you won't have to worry about overdeveloped left leg muscles, you can drink your coffee or talk on the phone calmly with one hand :biggrin:. But a manual is just fine as well if you yourself are comfortable with driving manuals on a daily basis in general.

As soon as you start thinking about autocross, quarter-mile or going around a track, then you should seriously consider the manual. Sure, the automatic transmission is more than capable of handling those tasks, and you can still have a lot of fun with it, but it really can't compare to the control that a manual brings to the table.

And come on, you can probably impress chicks by showing them you have the skillz to drive manual. Though having a free hand with an automatic can be advantageous in this situation :laugh:

So there you go, my own 2 cents on the matter :biggrin:

[Thirty-Nine]

And come on, you can probably impress chicks by showing them you have the skillz to drive manual. Though having a free hand with an automatic can be advantageous in this situation :laugh:


LOL! I like that!

[drmitch]

Been driving manual for the last 13 years... 84Honda CRX, 86 Honda Civic Hatch, 95 Miata, 00 BMW Z3 and now 99 Miata so having the skill to drive a stick is not an issue...I've no intention to autocross and the days of doing recreational runs through the twisties with my Miata are over...I just can't justify it in terms of consumption/emissions. So, I'm mostly looking at my commute, the occasional trip to Vegas, still enjoying the look and feel of my car, not feeling like I'm traveling in a mobile living room or a conservative grandpamobile AND feeling like I'm doing what I can afford to do in terms of decreasing my carbon footprint. I'd look at a Prius but a. it's twice the cost of the Yaris and b. I'm still concerned about long-term maintenance and repair costs of the hybrid technology at this point.

Vanderkitten, it is amazing the difference nice rims make in the look of the HB. Wow! Love those black twins!

[kurokoma-kun]

84Honda CRX, 86 Honda Civic Hatch, 95 Miata, 00 BMW Z3 and now 99 Miata

:laugh: you sure do like little cars, doncha? the Yaris may feel like a motorhome after all! :laugh:

So are you gonna pull the trigger and get the Yaris, or think about it some more?

[brickhardmeat]

..I just can't justify it in terms of consumption/emissions.!:confused:

[death is my gift]

:confused:

x's 2

[drmitch]

Kurokoma, yes, I intend to get the Yaris. I'm just waiting for an offer I can't refuse in a color I like. I'm now leaning towards black...
As for the "consumption/emissions" statement that created some questions/confusion...with Live Earth, record heat and dryness sparking over 1000 fires in the last few days, global warming a fact, America's huge contribution to same, etc., I cannot in good conscience go drive around with the Miata club for 2 hours in the mountains anymore...that's what I meant. If this decision, Yaris vs. Miata, was not motivated by conscience and taking personal responsibility, it wouldn't be happening. I LIKE my Miata! I know a lot of driver's don't see it that way but if every driver who said "My one car, my driving habits, don't make any difference" thought instead that it DID make a difference...cumulatively, it WOULD make a difference. Our culture, our government, our auto industry must change...and often what creates change is simply consumer demand...if we buy fuel efficient vehicles in growing numbers, regardless of the price of gas, the market will change. I want to contribute to that change in any way I can. My sermon for the day...

[Indianspringsaz]

Whenever I start thinking I want an auto, I also start thinking how many gears I could shift with the $800-1200 saveings.

[tomato]

Great thread, you guys! :bow: Also served to confirm my suspicions that the Yaris clutch takes some getting used to.

The night I drove my Yaris MT back from the dealership, I almost thought I had made a huge mistake!! That clutch was driving me absolutely crazy, couldn't downshift to second to take a turn on the freeway (sigh) !!! I think I'm going to remember that fright for a WHILE!! :eyebulge:

Now that I see other peole describe the same problems, I do feel better (I'm in an urban situation, so as you can imagine, mastering the clutch fast is very important!

BTW, I, too have been driving many MT cars before, usually Honda's (last one was a fast CRX), but also European cars with MT, so it's a little shocking and embarassing to be stalling on First like a newbie!

(BTW, my apologies for reopening an old thread. Not sure what the protocol is around here. Would you rather have repeat threads of continuing old threads?)

[otterhere]

Don't let Sail or Forrest hear you complaining about the clutch; you must LOVE the Yaris to post here; looooooooooooove *everything* about it...

Drink the Kool-Ade and take your Soma...

Obviously I prefer the Yaris to all comparable cars or I wouldn't have purchased it, but could it have been better designed? Sorry; yes...

Would I rather have my legs chopped off in a Smart Twofer crash? Nope.

:smile:

[Tamago]

what did you think would happen, going from direct shift linkage to cable shift linkage?

[Havana]

My Yaris shifts like a truck. That's what it really feels like. It's completely different from the smooth and tight shifting of my previous Civic but I don't mind. The leisurely gear box of the Yaris reminds me to take it easy and not try to drive it like it's an M5. The biggest adjustment I had to make to the Yaris's shifting is working the tiny pedals. The pedals remind me of this little battery powered car that I had as a child. Once I mastered the tip toe style shifting, I had no problems.

[SailDesign]

Don't let Sail or Forrest hear you complaining about the clutch; you must LOVE the Yaris to post here; looooooooooooove *everything* about it...


Nope. Actually, I am not totally happy with the clutch at all. Am I sooooo unhappy as to post that it's a POS? No! I test-drove the car, and decided that it was a small price to pay (along with other stuff0 for a car that I liked overall.
I just don't bitch about the things that I can put up with in order to get the rest of the things that I liked.

[jambo101]

After shifting a Miata for the last 7 years just about anything else is trucklike by comparison but it still wouldnt have me thinking of an auto box tranny.
You get used to the Yaris stick shift fast.

[marcus]

yah quickshifter fr nst might have helped..

[tomato]

what did you think would happen, going from direct shift linkage to cable shift linkage?

Are you talking to me? Well, I didn't know what to expect, honestly. I'm not a mechanic, I just drive the cars, and I was trained to shift gears by listening to the engine, so you see, the Yaris is a new experience for me because the engine is quiet at low speed and the clutch doesn't engage where I'm used to. I have been driving sticks for a lot of years, but this car is clearly different.

Understand, I'm not trashing the car, just looking for the solution to the clutch "problem" (looks like I'm not the only one having to go through that so I think it's useful to mention it).

People mentioned something like installing a Short Shift Kit? Is that a good idea? And by the way, if you do a modification like that, does that void the warranty on the car? Or is it better to just wait until you get used to it?

(Only stalled once this morning, so I guess I'm making progress, uh? :iono:)

[Tamago]

Are you talking to me?

no, to the OP

i did not waste my time reading the whole thread, i'm sure i already know what key members already said to the OP..

and i figured i'd add my $.02

[tomato]

Don't let Sail or Forrest hear you complaining about the clutch; you must LOVE the Yaris to post here; looooooooooooove *everything* about it...

Drink the Kool-Ade and take your Soma...

Obviously I prefer the Yaris to all comparable cars or I wouldn't have purchased it, but could it have been better designed? Sorry; yes...
:smile:


I don't know if that's it, otterhere. I think there is a real fine line between criticism and trolling and sometimes it's hard to know if someone thinks you've crossed that line because people's sensitivity levels are different. :iono:

I'm new here, so I don't know the personalities of the posters, but it looks to me like you enjoy complaining about small things, no offense :wink: :biggrin: :biggrin:

Part of me understands where you're coming from, because I just traded-in my beloved old CRX, a car that I truly, truly, truly enjoyed for a LOT of miles. Shopping for a replacement car was hard. I didn't find that many comparable small cars out there in the US market, seems to me they all look really bloated, except the ultra expensive mini-cooper. The SMART is cute but has even less acceleration than the Yaris and no trunk at all! The Yaris is really a good compromise, I think. But I'm getting off topic, here, my bad.

Personally, if I can manage to master the clutch and not be a danger on the road to others by stalling when I mean to downshift :bonk::bonk::bonk:, I think I"ll consider myself pretty happy with my purchase overall.

:burnrubber:

[Rick]

Tomato,

The abrupt grabbiness of the clutch will diminish with miles of use. That will help.

You will also notice over time that you are leading more with the throttle than most other manuals require. The drive-by-wire throttle is a bit slow to respond and there is also a tiny bit of slack in pedal movement before the potentiometer in the pedal assembly starts signaling a change.

It bugged me (sometimes a lot) at first but now at 14K miles it's become a non-issue.

You will adapt.

[otterhere]

I'm a great believer in constructive criticism; it goes without saying that I liked enough about it to buy it, so no point waxing poetic on the car's good points... We all here know those. But maybe if enough of us take issue with certain design flaws, those will be addressed and rectrified in subsequent models. If everbody's happy, the flaws will remain. Speaking of test-driving, seems to me when they were designing this car in the first place, test drivers would've said, uh, this is incovenient and that doesn't make much sense, but perhaps they hired a lot of Pollyannas who only see the positives???

I'm not a troll; just a Japanese car loyalist who's a little disappointed in this new offering.

Er, I am loyal to Japanese cars, that is; I didn't mean to say that I AM Japanese...

[tomato]

Tomato,

The abrupt grabbiness of the clutch will diminish with miles of use. That will help.

You will also notice over time that you are leading more with the throttle than most other manuals require. The drive-by-wire throttle is a bit slow to respond and there is also a tiny bit of slack in pedal movement before the potentiometer in the pedal assembly starts signaling a change.

It bugged me (sometimes a lot) at first but now at 14K miles it's become a non-issue.

You will adapt.


Thanks very much.

[tomato]

:wink:I'm a great believer in constructive criticism; it goes without saying that I liked enough about it to buy it, so no point waxing poetic on the car's good points... We all here know those. But maybe if enough of us take issue with certain design flaws, those will be addressed and rectrified in subsequent models. If everbody's happy, the flaws will remain. Speaking of test-driving, seems to me when they were designing this car in the first place, test drivers would've said, uh, this is incovenient and that doesn't make much sense, but perhaps they hired a lot of Pollyannas who only see the positives???

I'm not a troll; just a Japanese car loyalist who's a little disappointed in this new offering.

Er, I am loyal to Japanese cars, that is; I didn't mean to say that I AM Japanese...


I understand. There is no doubt in my mind that people who work at Toyota keep an eye on these forums, so yeah, you make a good point, but some minor things (cloth seats, etc.) aren't worth complaining about, I think.

[otterhere]

:wink:


I understand. There is no doubt in my mind that people who work at Toyota keep an eye on these forums, so yeah, you make a good point, but some minor things (cloth seats, etc.) aren't worth complaining about, I think.


In my own defense, I didn't complain about the cloth seats... Only about the polka dots on them...

:redface:

[MadMax]

OK, time for my two cents…

For one, if you actually watch that video on the Smart car crash, you will see it did pretty well for a car of its size involved in a collision like that! I drove a ForFour as a rental in Germany for a week and it was a pretty good car; but the ForTwo they sell in the US has too many points against it in my book. For one, it requires premium gasoline, offsetting the cost benefits of better mileage. Secondly, there is absolutely no storage space whatsoever, and although the Yaris may be small it at least offers some carrying capacity (especially the liftback). Thirdly, the dimensions of the car, tall with a very short wheelbase, would concern me during spirited driving. I see it as a city car period, and seeing them on the Texas highways reminds me that they aren’t in their element in those situations.

As for the Yaris in an automatic, I love mine and whereas it may not be as “fast” as a manual (in relative terms), it can be manually shifted to some degree. However, as the car is primarily a commuter, the auto works perfectly for me. If I want performance and the ability to control what gear I am in as well as use a clutch, I will jump on one of my motorcycles…

And if you think a manual Yaris shifts like shit, try a Jeep Wrangler! That is another reason I went with the auto in my LJ...

Cheers! M2

[otterhere]

:wink:


I understand. There is no doubt in my mind that people who work at Toyota keep an eye on these forums, so yeah, you make a good point, but some minor things (cloth seats, etc.) aren't worth complaining about, I think.

These "little things" are what keep a good car from becoming a great car (for the money). Why settle for less when Yaris could be better? Grousers Unite!

:thumbsup:

[tomato]

OK, time for my two cents…

For one, if you actually watch that video on the Smart car crash, you will see it did pretty well for a car of its size involved in a collision like that! I drove a ForFour as a rental in Germany for a week and it was a pretty good car; but the ForTwo they sell in the US has too many points against it in my book. For one, it requires premium gasoline, offsetting the cost benefits of better mileage. Secondly, there is absolutely no storage space whatsoever, and although the Yaris may be small it at least offers some carrying capacity (especially the liftback). Thirdly, the dimensions of the car, tall with a very short wheelbase, would concern me during spirited driving. I see it as a city car period, and seeing them on the Texas highways reminds me that they aren’t in their element in those situations.

Cheers! M2


Since the SMART comes up a lot on these threads, I thought I'd post this picture. This is what SMART for 2 was designed for, to park in really tight spaces. This pic was taken in a narrow street in the old part of Paris. They have tons of them there. Of course, in the US, they look really out of place on the highways and out in parking lots.

[MadMax]

Nice pic! I have one of a row of pizza delivery Smarts I took in Kaiserslautern, Germany a year ago, I will see if I can find it and post it when I get home...

Cheers! M2

[Tamago]

These "little things" are what keep a good car from becoming a great car (for the money). Why settle for less when Yaris could be better? Grousers Unite!

:thumbsup:

1.what is a better car for the money?
2. do you really think you bitching on yarisworld.com will somehow be noticed by the tiny japanese man, and he'll make the necessary changes to a WORLD CAR simply to make you happy?
3. do you smoke a lot of weed?

:laugh:

[otterhere]

1.what is a better car for the money?
2. do you really think you bitching on yarisworld.com will somehow be noticed by the tiny japanese man, and he'll make the necessary changes to a WORLD CAR simply to make you happy?
3. do you smoke a lot of weed?

:laugh:


1. There isn't one; that's why I bought this one.
2. One can but hope.
3. No, but hey, that's a great idea for that triangular coin-eating stash compartment.
4. You guys keep forgetting to add your icon:

:evil:

[detroiter]

I believe the Smart car has a 3 cylinder 1 litre engine. What Smart fails to tell the consumer is that it also requires PREMIUM FUEL.

[tomato]

Nice pic! I have one of a row of pizza delivery Smarts I took in Kaiserslautern, Germany a year ago, I will see if I can find it and post it when I get home...

Cheers! M2


Great, thanks! They do look kind of cool when they're all together :w00t:

That reminds me, I have a whole row of Yaris LB's, somewhere on my HD, too :cool:

[BLAZINBLUEVITZ]

[QUOTE=Tamago;251943 do you really think you bitching on yarisworld.com will somehow be noticed by the tiny japanese man, and he'll make the necessary changes to a WORLD CAR simply to make you happy?
:laugh:[/QUOTE]

thats a big fat YES. just ask your boy ROCKLAND TOYOTA about toyota corporate.......

[SailDesign]

In my own defense, I didn't complain about the cloth seats... Only about the polka dots on them...

:redface:

Otterhere - you are missing one of the GREAT customizable features of the Yaris - its seats. Somewhere out there in Web-land used to be a site telling you how to use the polka-dots and a Sharpie to create your own designs on the cushions - simply black out the required dots and leave the design behind on the remaining ones.
No - never went that far. :smile:

[otterhere]

Otterhere - you are missing one of the GREAT customizable features of the Yaris - its seats. Somewhere out there in Web-land used to be a site telling you how to use the polka-dots and a Sharpie to create your own designs on the cushions - simply black out the required dots and leave the design behind on the remaining ones.
No - never went that far. :smile:


If I get stuck in traffic, I can "connect the dots"... Okay, a set of markers in that one side compartment; slowly but surely, am finding a use for them all...

[MadMax]

Great, thanks! They do look kind of cool when they're all together :w00t:

That reminds me, I have a whole row of Yaris LB's, somewhere on my HD, too :cool:

Here ya go...

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c209/M2Repsol/th_IMG_0869.jpg (http://s28.photobucket.com/albums/c209/M2Repsol/?action=view&current=IMG_0869.jpg)
(Click on thumbnail for full-sized pic)

They are really great city cars, and very popular in Europe (there used to be a huge glass tower full of them outside of Brussels...we would pass it all the time); but I am not sure it would suite my needs and even though there are a few of them running around San Antonio, they just don't look like they fit in here!

I love my Yaris, and saw another BSP LB at a nearby church this afternoon that was very similar except for slightly different rims. I love seeing other Yarii running around, and even better seeing ones that have been modified a bit. I tend to wave, a carryover from when I drive my Jeep. A few Yaris drivers have returned the wave, maybe it is something we can get going! :headbang:

Cheers! M2

[tomato]

Here ya go...

They are really great city cars, and very popular in Europe (there used to be a huge glass tower full of them outside of Brussels...we would pass it all the time); but I am not sure it would suite my needs and even though there are a few of them running around San Antonio, they just don't look like they fit in here!

I love my Yaris, and saw another BSP LB at a nearby church this afternoon that was very similar except for slightly different rims. I love seeing other Yarii running around, and even better seeing ones that have been modified a bit. I tend to wave, a carryover from when I drive my Jeep. A few Yaris drivers have returned the wave, maybe it is something we can get going! :headbang:

Cheers! M2

You know, I would totally wave! Great idea, let's do it! :headbang:
The Smart in the US always makes me laugh.
In Europe, it's fine, because all the cars are small, but here, it looks both cute and comical at the same time, if you know what I mean.
Didn't know about PREMIUM fuel. That totally s..cks. :bs:

Here you go, a row of Yarii front and back. Pics aren't great because it started raining, but if someone can use them to make a banner or something, go right ahead. I don't know how to resize pics so they fit in the forum better, sorry.

[otterhere]

Cools pics of the Yaris Army; thanks for posting...

Much as I love small cars -- and the Yaris isn't small enough!!! -- even I have to agree that the Smart just looks silly driving around our interstates... Even I have to think "clown car" and chuckle at it... Something about a Twofer in between two semis surrounded by a 4x4 extended cab truck and a monster SUV makes you go "hmmmmm"... And it wouldn't hold my kayak.

:frown:

[ChinoCharles]

otterhere, you do realize that you're in a vast minority, right? Toyota isn't going to change a thing about the Yaris because for every one of you, there are a hundred like me that think the car is fine just the way it is. Give it up. :laugh:

On the topic of the OP... one of my only gripes about this car is the gearbox. If you have ever driven a manual Honda, you'll realize the gearboxes feel a lot more natural. Not sure why... anyone have an answer for that?

However, the Yaris's gearbox "issue" isn't a Yaris thing... it is a Toyota thing. Oh well. I wouldn't mind seeing a Yaris with a tiptronic and/or a paddle shifter, but that won't happen, and from a business perspective it probably shouldn't. Can't wait for a la carte cars.

[otterhere]

[QUOTE=ChinoCharles;252716]otterhere, you do realize that you're in a vast minority, right? Toyota isn't going to change a thing about the Yaris because for every one of you, there are a hundred like me that think the car is fine just the way it is. Give it up. :laugh:

Exactly why I posed the questions in the first place; wondered how many others were as bothered by the things that bothered me about this car...
Apparently, not many... Or not many who post on the Yaris fan club site?

As I say, I overall like the car, but "there's always room for improvement"!

Letting it go now.... Ommmmmmm...

:smoking:

[MadMax]

This picture puts it in the proper perspective...

http://justinsomnia.org/images/toyota-yaris-smart-fortwo.jpg

The ForFour is more comparable to our beloved Yaris, even more so now that the 5-door is available in the States (although they the most common Yaris I saw in Europe, where the sedan isn’t even offered as far as I know).

http://www.edmunds.com/media/il/features/driving/smart.forfour.brabus/brabus.smart.forfour.340.jpg

And I too took pics of Yarii I saw over there, the most at any one time being three diesels I saw in Huntingdon, UK and three at a dealership in southern Germany.

I have to admit I get excited at the sight of another Yaris, and think the wave thing would be cool as it works with Jeeps and motorcycles. The fact that the Yaris is still rather unique in this country, whereas you see Minis and the new Beetles all over the place. As I’ve stated before, that is one of the reasons I love the car so much; that and the fact that it reminds me so much of the cars I’ve seen and driven in Europe.

Cheers! M2

[otterhere]

I will do the wave, although it will mean hearing that annoying drumming because my window is rolled down... I, too, enjoy driving the "unique"...

As was obvious from my previous vehicle (the Suzuki Swift)...

:thumbsup:

[tomato]

On the topic of the OP... one of my only gripes about this car is the gearbox. If you have ever driven a manual Honda, you'll realize the gearboxes feel a lot more natural. Not sure why... anyone have an answer for that?

However, the Yaris's gearbox "issue" isn't a Yaris thing... it is a Toyota thing.

Couldn't agree more with you about that gear box. :mad:

I have the same gripe. In fact, it's probably the only real big thing that bothers me about the car, looks like I've adapted well to almost everything else. I asked the same question in this forum a few days ago and some posters provided a few ideas, here you go :


The abrupt grabbiness of the clutch will diminish with miles of use. That will help.

You will also notice over time that you are leading more with the throttle than most other manuals require. The drive-by-wire throttle is a bit slow to respond and there is also a tiny bit of slack in pedal movement before the potentiometer in the pedal assembly starts signaling a change.

It bugged me (sometimes a lot) at first but now at 14K miles it's become a non-issue. "

AND

"There is a beakin period since the flywheel is still fresh. Just like there is a breakin period when you do a break job when the rotor is new or freshly resurfaced. So it will feel little different as you start to drive it more. Also you could be used to driving a clutch thats already worn compared to a new one. Every car is going to ahve a different point where the clutch engages.

When i first learned to drive i was taugh to not touch the gas. Remove the clutch pedal til you can feel the point of engagement then let go and whala the car is moving on its on with you revving the gas while letting go of the clutch. Which is a good way to wear out your clutch fast.

That is the only real way to get a good feel of your clutch. Eventually you will have that point memorized and then you can time your shifts precisely. "

and

"Yes, the clutch is weird in the Yaris. It has a very long throw and a very soft touch. It begins to grab VERY low on the pedal, but doesn't fully release until very near the top. It takes some getting used to, as does the electronic throttle and the fact that you can't really hear the engine.

You'll get used to it. "

[SailDesign]

... However, the Yaris's gearbox "issue" isn't a Yaris thing... it is a Toyota thing. Oh well. ...

Charles, that is why you shouldalways come to a Toyota from a VW. The Toyota box is SO much less crunchy... :smile:

[MadMax]

Charles, that is why you shouldalways come to a Toyota from a VW. The Toyota box is SO much less crunchy... :smile:

Sorry, but unless you are only talking about the old Beetles; that is :bs:

I drove a Passat VR6 with a 5-speed for nine years before getting my Yaris, and that things shifted like a hot knife through butter.

If you want lousy gearboxes, then drive a manual Ford Ranger pickup or a Jeep Wrangler. Now those are crunchy gearboxes!

Cheers! M2

[SailDesign]

Sorry, but unless you are only talking about the old Beetles; that is :bs:


Fox - the bastard child of an Audi layout and a VW badge, dreamed up by someone in Brazil with too many spare parts to play with. The gearbox was a 4-speed POS, but all told it was a lovely car once you got used to it :biggrin:
Would get 36 mpg on the highway no trouble, with a full load of kid and college gear. I miss that heap!

[roxy1]

[QUOTE=ChinoCharles;252716]

However, the Yaris's gearbox "issue" isn't a Yaris thing... it is a Toyota thing.QUOTE]

i still think its more of a yaris thinfg. going from my yaris to an '09 corolla, i would say the difference in shift dynamics is dramatically better for the corolla. shorter, smoother throws, friction pt not so close to the floor. the 09 civic coupes that i test drove actually seemd more clunky when shifting. still have the dbw issues, of course.

maybe shifting the yaris for a year made me appreciate more conventional shifting dynamics.

[Kal-El]

After trucks, the worse clutches are, oddly enough, in German cars.

There clutches have ridiculously long throws (twice the length of a Yaris).
They are also to "loose". The springs have very little resistance and is annoying.

This is from my experience with Audi's, VW's, BMW's, ect.

The only issue I have with my clutch is that you have to get used to revving the throttle more in 1st than most manuals to avoid stalling. Otherwise, the clutch itself feels great.

[gaffo]

well, there must be a large number of super skilled 5 speed yaris drivers out there. i just dont think you have to be particularly skilled to get better fuel economy with a manual tranny. when i researched every possible forum discussing the yaris before buying one, the vast majority of drivers getting the real high mileages were driving the 5 speed. i think anyone who has driven a stick most of their life will better the auto fuel economy by more that 1 mpg. my last 2 tanks at 60/40 highway/city were 42.6 mpg and 42.4 mpg, and the car has only 980 miles, so its not even broken in.

fueleconomy.gov users show closer to a 2 mpg disparity between a stick and auto yaris.

agreed, if you bought the stick so you can thrash the little yaris engine or you dont know how to pick the proper shift points for optimal fuel economy, you may not beat the auto tranny mileage.


2 points:

1. you can shift for optimum fuel economy (which you do). This means shifting at lower RPMs.

2. You can shift in the powerband (which i do). This means shifting at higher RPMs.

PotAto - Potato.

You will get 42 mpg, and I consistently get 37 mpg.

..............

Even I with my higher RPM shifting will get better mileage (and alot more reserve power!) than the automatic. I also downshift alot, which conserves fuel, and brakes - though perhaps not the tranny ;-/.

[gaffo]

Great thread, you guys! :bow: Also served to confirm my suspicions that the Yaris clutch takes some getting used to.

The night I drove my Yaris MT back from the dealership, I almost thought I had made a huge mistake!! That clutch was driving me absolutely crazy, couldn't downshift to second to take a turn on the freeway (sigh) !!! I think I'm going to remember that fright for a WHILE!! :eyebulge:

Now that I see other peole describe the same problems, I do feel better (I'm in an urban situation, so as you can imagine, mastering the clutch fast is very important!

BTW, I, too have been driving many MT cars before, usually Honda's (last one was a fast CRX), but also European cars with MT, so it's a little shocking and embarassing to be stalling on First like a newbie!

(BTW, my apologies for reopening an old thread. Not sure what the protocol is around here. Would you rather have repeat threads of continuing old threads?)


former TR7 5speeder here. and 4speeder ford fiesta before that..........

I STILL STALL on 1st on occasion - once every couple of months or so. Just something about that damn clutch.

I know what it is: it engages to high up, and when it engages it friction zone is too damn narrow - thus you stall out!

once you get to 2nd gear its easier to shift up or down. getting into 1st is the challenge!! lol.

I also notice reverse is hard to literally get the shifter into.

one deals with it.

[tomato]

former TR7 5speeder here. and 4speeder ford fiesta before that..........

I STILL STALL on 1st on occasion - once every couple of months or so. Just something about that damn clutch.

I know what it is: it engages to high up, and when it engages it friction zone is too damn narrow - thus you stall out!

once you get to 2nd gear its easier to shift up or down. getting into 1st is the challenge!! lol.

I also notice reverse is hard to literally get the shifter into.

one deals with it.

I agree!! I'm slowly getting used to it, though, but find that I have to push on the gas pedal a little more than usual to keep the car from stalling on 1st when I'm traffic. Oh well. Like you said, one deals with it!

:burnrubber:

[gaffo]

Are you talking to me? Well, I didn't know what to expect, honestly. I'm not a mechanic, I just drive the cars, and I was trained to shift gears by listening to the engine, so you see, the Yaris is a new experience for me because the engine is quiet at low speed and the clutch doesn't engage where I'm used to. I have been driving sticks for a lot of years, but this car is clearly different.

Understand, I'm not trashing the car, just looking for the solution to the clutch "problem" (looks like I'm not the only one having to go through that so I think it's useful to mention it).

People mentioned something like installing a Short Shift Kit? Is that a good idea? And by the way, if you do a modification like that, does that void the warranty on the car? Or is it better to just wait until you get used to it?

(Only stalled once this morning, so I guess I'm making progress, uh? :iono:)


yes - I found the engine too damn quite to shift by sound (unlike my old Tr7) - there is not tachometer (DUMB DUMB DUMB TOYOTA!!!).

I have to use my speedometer (after verifying RPMs from a nonUS Yaris hatchbacker here on these forums). I shift within 2200 rpms - 3500 rpms.

so:

1st 1-17 mph
2nd 17-36 mph
3rd 36-50 mph
4th 50-65 mph
5th 65-90 mph

not gone over 90 yet.

these are approximate, but the numbers have served me well for these last 1.5 yrs in regard to shifting.


this is shifting in the power band - not for optimum gas mileage. I average 37 mpg combined.

[gaffo]

Tomato,

The abrupt grabbiness of the clutch will diminish with miles of use. That will help.

You will also notice over time that you are leading more with the throttle than most other manuals require. The drive-by-wire throttle is a bit slow to respond and there is also a tiny bit of slack in pedal movement before the potentiometer in the pedal assembly starts signaling a change.

It bugged me (sometimes a lot) at first but now at 14K miles it's become a non-issue.

You will adapt.


the delay is pretty bad. nto sure why though. you would think there could be a cheap solution like a faster circuit for something.

you can really "feel"/"hear" the delay when you put the car in neutral and gun it. It takes a good 1/8th of a second after pressing the pedel before the engine even gets the signal to rev!!!

it is a little anoying, but like in all things one gets used to it and compensates for it in daily driving.

I do consider this a true to life design flaw and protentially dangerious in that it lessens ones full control over the car in split second reaction time environments (those being the deadly kind). toyota needs to fix this problem for the newer cars - pronto.

[gaffo]

Here ya go...

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c209/M2Repsol/th_IMG_0869.jpg (http://s28.photobucket.com/albums/c209/M2Repsol/?action=view&current=IMG_0869.jpg)
(Click on thumbnail for full-sized pic)

They are really great city cars, and very popular in Europe (there used to be a huge glass tower full of them outside of Brussels...we would pass it all the time); but I am not sure it would suite my needs and even though there are a few of them running around San Antonio, they just don't look like they fit in here!

I love my Yaris, and saw another BSP LB at a nearby church this afternoon that was very similar except for slightly different rims. I love seeing other Yarii running around, and even better seeing ones that have been modified a bit. I tend to wave, a carryover from when I drive my Jeep. A few Yaris drivers have returned the wave, maybe it is something we can get going! :headbang:

Cheers! M2


I'd love a microcar!! - just not that bloated heavy slow overpriced non-shiftable "SMART" car.

an IQ, or KA, or fiat 500, chatent Speedino, or the three-wheeler Tango Trike.

I love small, and don't worry about dying. We all die someday. I'd prefer to enjoy the ride and not be a nervous nelly about it.

Cancer or heart or falling space rock will kill me if the road don't - so just be a good defensive driver and enjoy the trip!!!

- bring the small cars over here dammit!

[otterhere]

Agreed, gaffo. Sometimes I think Americans think if they just do x, y, and z (get those full-body CAT scans, eat 50 vitamins a day, and drive a Hummer) they will never die...

[tomato]

I'd love a microcar!!

- bring the small cars over here dammit!

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::c lap:
:headbang::headbang::headbang::headbang::headbang: :headbang:
:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::c lap:
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: :thumbsup::thumbsup:

[upyaris]

I laugh at people who bought the Smart. I run rings around them on the freeway and in the city. I also laugh when they are putting premium gas in their tanks while I put regular. The gas mileage in the Smart isn't all that great, especially since you can't do 80 without feeling like your engine is burning up.

Sorry, but the Smart isn't Smart. I see them for sale all the time because of the lack of power and people not realizing it used premium when they bought it. I also believe 2 seaters are for sports cars and fun cars, not cars that tip over.

[otterhere]

upyaris... cute name!:tongue: