Lean Burn - Hydrogen Enrichment

[GeneW]

I'm going to restart the Hydrogen gas enrichment threads here.

I'm not into beating that poor little Nippon-Denso alternator with which we're equipped. I'm hoping that a catalytic reformer of gasoline emerges on the market that we can buy.

Creating a hydrogen vapor and spraying it into the engine makes it easier to combust the incoming air-fuel mixture, greatly reducing wall wetting. "And hydrogen injection has another benefit," says Botti, "it can be utilized to heat the catalyst up much faster than normal." Delphi estimates a catalyst warm-up time of 20 seconds could be cut in half by adding this system, and allow a 50% reduction in the precious metals found in the catalyst; a significant cost reduction to the OEM. "Tighter emission standards are going to increase the load on catalysts, which normally means more precious metals are necessary," Botti says, "but we think this technology will mitigate those costs." It also should ease or eliminate the need to increase catalyst package size in order to meet the tighter standards, particularly on larger engines, and make it easier to reach SULEV (Super Ultra-Low Emission Vehicle) standards.

Delphi's hydrogen enrichment system
Schematic shows the basics of Delphi's hydrogen enrichment system, slated for production mid-decade. By reformulating a small amount of gasoline in to hydrogen gas, the unit can be used to cut catalyst light-off time in half, and increase the lean-burn tolerance of conventional internal combustion engine designs.

The on-board reformer, however, will have uses beyond start-up emission reduction. "The hydrogen uses very little gasoline, but allows a lean mixture to be used by making the engine more tolerant of lean-burn conditions," says Botti. "We are looking at putting up to 30% EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) back into the engine, which will easily compensate for the small amount of fuel we use to create the hydrogen in the first place." So, on the fly, a hydrogen enrichment-equipped vehicle could call on the unit to improve dynamic emission performance, giving automakers greater calibration flexibility. "We believe this technology will allow OEMs to run lean-burn combustion longer, and over a broader range of driving conditions," says Botti.

http://www.autofieldguide.com/articles/090203.html

Gene

[TinyGiant]

best one to make

www.smacksboosters.110mb.com

[Sodium Duck]

best one to make

www.smacksboosters.110mb.com

Is that BS, or does it actually work?

[TinyGiant]

well it does make combustible gas.. and the point isnt to get an HP boost but to let the car burn the gas cleaner and more efficently. They have done tests on the emissions and they show a decrease in toxins. And people get great results. They only work correctly if you mod teh 02 sensors too. When the car runs the gas and the HHO it puts out less emissions.. and the o2 sensors see that as running too lean.. and it will compensate and dump more gas in.. which will defeat the purpose.. I've read a bunch on this . and was going to do it on the jeep... until we decided to just get rid of it and the the yaris...

there is a yahoo group called watercar that has tons of info on it

[Sodium Duck]

Meh, unless it increases my MPG, I'm not too interested. I did the $30 oil catch can mod, I've done enough for emmisions, lol.

I wonder if that thread was saved.........

[TinyGiant]

it does increase the MPG alot.. because it makes the fuel burn better.. you need less fuel for the same burn... because there is less waste..

[Sodium Duck]

Well......... when BailOut buys one, then I will... lol

[TinyGiant]

you can build it for $40 worth of home depot goodies .. the plans are free on the site i posted. (Smack the guy who makes them) is all about free information and doesnt charge for the info and plans on how to build them. The money from the ones he builds goes to the car he's working on to work 100% off water :)

[Sodium Duck]

Well, if it costs 40 bucks to make, then I'd do it. If it does, and I get a major boost in MPG, then I'll go up to NH and buy you a beer. If it doesn't... well I get about 40MPG, I'll go up there and you buy me a beer lol.

I'll check up on the plans later and see what's involved.

[TinyGiant]

Well, if it costs 40 bucks to make, then I'd do it. If it does, and I get a major boost in MPG, then I'll go up to NH and buy you a beer. If it doesn't... well I get about 40MPG, I'll go up there and you buy me a beer lol.

I'll check up on the plans later and see what's involved.

make it root beer and you have a deal <straightedge> :)

I was thinking about doing it but i dont want to void my warranty...

[Sodium Duck]

hahaha, FTW... new meaning for that acronym now lol

Rootbeer it is!

[bnther36]

I would be interested to see how this works out. Personally, I think the best way to do this would be to set up a solar panel on the garage, generate the hydrogen from the solar panel instead of an alternator, store it in a used scuba-tank, move the tank into the car and then pipe it into the breather.

I think the concept of hydrogen is sound, I just don't know if running it off of the alternator isn't counter-productive

My 2 cents

[TinyGiant]

there was a guy who did the storage route

[tiiams]

Has anyone installed a hho system in there car yet, i have one of the first yaris 4 doors that entered the states i get 40+ mpg. My warranty expires in 10,000 miles and i am looking at building and installing water for gas system.

Has anyone else done it yet?

[jambo101]

With all the clamor to get better fuel economy its curious why the major car companies with their billion dollar research and development departments never played with this idea or if they did why didnt they install it on their cars.Any links to substantiated testing of this system?

[talnlnky]

prolly law issues, and money... it all comes down to money.

Even if it doesn't increase mpg... if it reduces cost per mile at the same time of reducing emissions that is a big improvement. MPG doesn't tell the whole story... Cost Per Mile is what actually matters.

I got better mpg's in washington than oregon last summer due to the difference of E10 Additive in oregon's gas.... but washington's was also more expensive... so when gas was $4ish a gallon it was a wash.... with gas being cheaper... the E10 in oregon isn't as good... but i'm sure by the end of summer it'll be back on top in terms of cost per mile.

the equation to figure out is pretty easy...
Gas price per gallon /mpg
i.e. $3/40mpg = $.075 or 7.5cents per mile

$40 isn't very much... if that's the only cost... if there are recurring costs however... it makes it much harder, and takes much longer to pay for itself.


I think the biggest question is... how easy (read: how expensive) is it to mod the ecu to allow the lean mixture.

[Yaris Hilton]

Methanol in fuel produces free hydrogen that's said to confuse O2 sensors. I don't know what effect it has on the sensor.

[YarisDude]

If you do the physics, you loose more energy than you gain. The are losses in energy conversion, mechanical to electrical energy (alternator/belt - heat) and electrical-chemical losses in electrolysis (breaking the H and O bonds in the water). Accurately accounting for these conversion losses will show that you have no gain. Currently there is no way of invalidating the laws of thermodynamics, it would be nice to produce a perpetual motion machine out of my Yaris. If you can get the hydrogen for free you may have something - perhaps as a waste product from manufacturing. Perhaps I should get some chickens and use the poop to generate methane and bottle it to run my car, as I side product I get fresh eggs and meat. Blast, I still have to buy the chicken feed.

[talnlnky]

If you do the physics, you loose more energy than you gain. The are losses in energy conversion, mechanical to electrical energy (alternator/belt - heat) and electrical-chemical losses in electrolysis (breaking the H and O bonds in the water). Accurately accounting for these conversion losses will show that you have no gain. Currently there is no way of invalidating the laws of thermodynamics, it would be nice to produce a perpetual motion machine out of my Yaris. If you can get the hydrogen for free you may have something - perhaps as a waste product from manufacturing. Perhaps I should get some chickens and use the poop to generate methane and bottle it to run my car, as I side product I get fresh eggs and meat. Blast, I still have to buy the chicken feed.

you missed the boat... its not about trying to find 100% efficiency.. its about lowering the cost per mile... and possibly emissions too.

[ezhacker1]

i did a evaporator thingy instead of going HHO generator route on my previous Taco. what it was, is like the hho generator but just vacuum line sucking in outside air bubbling the water and sucking up tiny evaporated water. I really have no hard evidence on the effectiveness, no scangauge to tell me if my intake was cooler or not or inst. mpg gauge. however at pump whether it was me thinking i was doing better or not, i got like 10% increase. around 21>23mpg.

I guess intaking just tiny evaporated water makes sense to cool the intake air, kinda how driving through a cold foggy morning.

About taking too much energy to break water down to hho, theres the option of seeding the evaporator with hho, from one jar that has electricity running through it tubed to a sealed jar of water. Seems like it would make sense. Still im not about to do anything like this on my new Yaris. Even though seems like people get real life results, i might start reading up on http://www.hhoforums.com

[Biff]

prolly law issues, and money... it all comes down to money.

Even if it doesn't increase mpg... if it reduces cost per mile at the same time of reducing emissions that is a big improvement. MPG doesn't tell the whole story... Cost Per Mile is what actually matters.

I got better mpg's in washington than oregon last summer due to the difference of E10 Additive in oregon's gas.... but washington's was also more expensive... so when gas was $4ish a gallon it was a wash.... with gas being cheaper... the E10 in oregon isn't as good... but i'm sure by the end of summer it'll be back on top in terms of cost per mile.

the equation to figure out is pretty easy...
Gas price per gallon /mpg
i.e. $3/40mpg = $.075 or 7.5cents per mile

$40 isn't very much... if that's the only cost... if there are recurring costs however... it makes it much harder, and takes much longer to pay for itself.


I think the biggest question is... how easy (read: how expensive) is it to mod the ecu to allow the lean mixture.




This is legal, and cheap and easy to make. The HHO it produces its not just Hydrogen its "HHO".... So it will be safe to put on the engine, and its high maintenance. However, it can be made from some stainless, and a few other things. If you read around you will see that the links given above are scams. I have been researching this for a long time. You should never buy one, they are not worth the money. Also, you will want to read into how you should set yours up. This is only going to provide a little HHO, unless you create an efficient cell. Citric acid is used, and you would want a closed system that will self circulate the liquid you choose. If you do it right, it will make a decent amount, and not get hot or brown.


Hope that helps.