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07-19-2009, 04:59 AM | #1 |
I ♥ Yaris
Drives: Black 08 LB MT & red 97 Miata Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Indianapolis IN
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Isn't a spoiler bad for performance on our Yari?
Spoilers increase downforce at speed (like adding weight) at the rear, at the expense of drag.With front engine front wheel drive cars, I'm pretty sure that a spoiler adds to the under-steer they already have. Under acceleration adding more downforce to the back would also shift more traction away from the drive wheels and increase wheel hop. It seems to me that spoilers are purely cosmetic for our cars (adding unnecessary weight and drag too). Granted, I love how they look on Yari , but I'm pretty sure there's not any real advantage to them. What do you guys think?
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07-19-2009, 05:17 AM | #2 |
vroom vroom
Drives: lil red 5-door Join Date: Sep 2006
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I'm not sure that any actual empirical testing has been done but they could add to high speed stability too, like on the highway.
But yes, they are certainly mostly for looks
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07-20-2009, 09:03 AM | #3 |
Drives: Yaris Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Michigan
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Most OEM spoilers are specifically designed to not do anything but look cool. In theory they may increase stability at high speeds, but not on our cars. For example Audi put a spoiler on the first gen TT because they had problems with high speed stability(140mph+). If you look at pictures of it it has about a 30 deg angle on it as opposed to the 5-10 deg or so the OEM spoilers have on our cars. Now if you buy a huge wing, then yes you will get some downforce.
Also as you said the force is in the wrong location for a FWD car to really benefit from it. I think you would see the most benefit from a front splitter, and/or a venturi device located in front of the back tires the second of which would give you ground clearance issues. In either case having someone sit in the back seat will give you the same affect at high speeds(at low speeds no aerodynamics have any effect). |
07-20-2009, 09:28 AM | #4 |
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Hmmm... I wonder if a simple front spoiler would improve highway stability for the Yaris?
Has anyone noted a difference with that addition? |
07-20-2009, 10:04 AM | #5 |
vroom vroom
Drives: lil red 5-door Join Date: Sep 2006
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The front underpanel Micro Image sells seems very promising in that respect. Not an actual spoiler per se, but it should help reduce underbody lift at speed...
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07-20-2009, 10:25 PM | #6 |
I ♥ Yaris
Drives: Black 08 LB MT & red 97 Miata Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Indianapolis IN
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does it actually add downwards force, or does it just prevent turbulent air and lift?
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07-21-2009, 12:56 AM | #7 |
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by speeding up air traveling beneath the car (smooth unbroken surface), it creates a small vacuum, which counts as downforce. So what you're saying is basically correct.
It would take a pretty high speed to be noticeable, I think.
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07-21-2009, 12:58 AM | #8 |
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Any rear spoiler behind the rear axles may create downforce in the back -- but it will also create a smaller amount of lift in the front (thinking of the rear axle as a lever).
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Micro Image forums, online store and shop are now closed. It was a great eight year run, but it was time to focus on other things. I'm still selling parts on eBay under micro*image seller ID and customers can still make requests for anything specific. |
07-21-2009, 01:44 AM | #9 |
Drives: '14 GT86, '08 Vitz Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Central Valley, CA
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I'm pretty sure my rear spoilers is non-functional. However, I do see that my VG's on my roof actually move the air.
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07-21-2009, 04:19 AM | #10 |
I ♥ Yaris
Drives: Black 08 LB MT & red 97 Miata Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Indianapolis IN
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It's such a shame, because I love how they look, but can't bring myself to buy a cosmetic upgrade until performance is dialed in the way I want it... (which means I still have wheels, exhaust/intake, and coil overs before I consider a spoiler...)
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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. - Bertrand Russell |
07-21-2009, 08:23 AM | #11 | |
Drives: Yaris Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 199
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Quote:
If you think about an airplane wing the front has a big hump on top to speed up the air flow. The curb feeler acts(to some degree) like this hump but on the bottom and therefore reduces lift generated by the general car shape. The question is which speed up the air more, the curb feeler, or the smooth surface. Anyone got a wind tunnel? Still I think the underpanel is a great piece and will cut the drag a lot. And I doubt the downforce difference matters at the yaris's speed limiter. |
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07-21-2009, 08:24 AM | #12 |
It's the illusion you see
Drives: 07 Yaris Sedan Aero Join Date: Oct 2006
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though, our yaris come with a tiny whiny spoiler that does pretty much nothing...
it's not like we have one of those huge spoiler that not only adds downfoce at high speed, but also adds weight... (those things probably weights 5kg or something) lol. |
07-21-2009, 11:58 AM | #13 |
Drives: 2007 Yaris Hatchback Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Beaufort, South Carolina
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is there any kits for the rear underbody panel (reducing the underside of the bumper), kind of like this:
but more appealing, haha this might make some difference in reducing drag |
07-21-2009, 08:19 PM | #14 |
Slowy getting there
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To the curb feeler comment I believe that most LB didn't come with one.
For the rear diffuser question Garm will be producing one after sales pick up on the front under panel and after he makes a belly pan to smooth out under the driver and passanger. That is how I understand everything after reading through his thread one the under panel. Please set me straight if I'm wrong Garm.
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07-22-2009, 04:26 PM | #15 |
Drives: '07 3 Door Yaris of Doom! Join Date: Dec 2006
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As has been touched on earlier, most OEM spoilers/wings are there to counteract the inherent LIFT that the vast majority of production cars produce at high speeds.
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07-22-2009, 05:09 PM | #16 | |
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lilredrocket, correct about the curb feeler.
Quote:
The fact is, in testing, the underpanel yielded 1-2 mpg increase. I know that's not a lot, but it proves that it is functional for its intended purpose -- to decrease turbulent airflow under the engine bay.
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07-22-2009, 05:12 PM | #17 |
Half a Bubble Off Plumb
Drives: 2009 Yaris Sedan Join Date: Mar 2009
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I doubt the factory spoiler does anything other than add a couple of pounds. It's a styling touch, nothing more.
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07-22-2009, 05:29 PM | #18 | |
Beast
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Quote:
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