Seeking wheel advice from someone who KNOWS

[Tamago]

Originally Posted by 09TRD

I am not interested in a RACING WHEEL because they bend on bad pavement.

I want a STREET wheel that will handle potholes and broken pavement, which our roads are packed with.

i have a set of team dynamics that are very low offset (read: heavy) 12.6lbs that i've used on the street and track for 4 years now, no bends no cracks..

[09TRD]

Originally Posted by Russelt3hPirate

so you're saying my 9.9lb wheels will bend if I hit something?.

Yep, that's what I'm saying.

Any "racing" wheel will bend on roads like those we have here in the Northeast.

I've seen several Enkeis fold like accordians up here.

[09TRD]

Originally Posted by Tamago

i have a set of team dynamics that are very low offset (read: heavy) 12.6lbs that i've used on the street and track for 4 years now, no bends no cracks..

That's believable.

But a 12.6 pound wheel has nearly 30% more material than those sub 10 pound "racing" Enkeis.

I want a nice looking, strong, forged wheel for under $200 that can handle the beating of these roads.

[Tamago]

Originally Posted by 09TRD

That's a gravity cast wheel with very thin spokes.

That wheel wouldn't hold up on the roads here in the Northeast.

While it's heavier, the forged and polished Centerline is a vastly stronger, higher quality wheel.

ok, so you're set on the centerline.. let's drop it because we think you're wrong and you think we're wrong.. you're going to a wheel that's about the same weight as stock steelies

your offset will be fine..
you have the correct hub bore
stick to that low section width 205

i'm out..

[09TRD]

Originally Posted by Tamago

ok, so you're set on the centerline.. let's drop it because we think you're wrong and you think we're wrong.. you're going to a wheel that's about the same weight as stock steelies

your offset will be fine..
you have the correct hub bore
stick to that low section width 205

i'm out..

The wheel I'm talking about that weighs 15 pounds is a 17" diameter wheel.

They don't list the weight for the 15" version, though it would obviously be lighter:

http://centerlinewheels.com/wheels_d...d=36&sw_id=263 "Our 17" wheel weighs only 15 lbs!"

[Tamago]

then how come it says:

This 15-inch forged wheel weighs only 14 lbs and is stronger than a cast wheel ! ++

[09TRD]

Originally Posted by Tamago

then how come it says:

14 pounds is light for an aluminum STREET wheel with a 1,200 pound load rating.

Racing wheels can be lighter because tracks aren't full of potholes, frostheaves and expansion joints.

Drive a 10 pound racing wheel on these roads and see how long it lasts.

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/w...treet-use.html

"A word on BBS Race wheels for street use
I see many inquiries and threads on these wheels, and I think it's fair to warn people that don't know that these wheels were not designed for street use and BBS does not recommend them to be used off of a track. The barrel sections are roll formed and they are considerably thinner on these wheels than they would be on one of their road wheels. It saves weight, but it makes the wheel much more likely to be damaged by potholes, etc."

[Russelt3hPirate]

Originally Posted by 09TRD

Yep, that's what I'm saying.

Any "racing" wheel will bend on roads like those we have here in the Northeast.

I've seen several Enkeis fold like accordians up here.

I don't have enkeis.

So my CCWs will bend on your roads? but they weigh 25lbs for a 17x10?

please help me understand your logic and where your basis of argument is coming from.

by adding more material increasing weight does not automatically make a wheel "stronger" then a lighter counterpart.

I've also seen higher weight wheels bend. Alot of times it's due to the tire pressure being overly low, or the sidewall height being too short for the type of road.

Wheels are designed to bend when an extreme situation happens, it's better for them to bend then break.

by your "weight" standards those 17" centerlines wouldn't put up to squat. So what makes you think their 15" version is worth anything? because the website said so? :lol:

I feel spoke design (less spacing between spokes), proper sidewall height, proper tire pressure, and as much as safe pothole avoidance is going to save your wheels more then adding 2lbs of metal somewhere.

[Russelt3hPirate]

Originally Posted by 09TRD

14 pounds is light for an aluminum STREET wheel with a 1,200 pound load rating.

Racing wheels can be lighter because tracks aren't full of potholes, frostheaves and expansion joints.

Drive a 10 pound racing wheel on these roads and see how long it lasts.

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/w...treet-use.html

"A word on BBS Race wheels for street use
I see many inquiries and threads on these wheels, and I think it's fair to warn people that don't know that these wheels were not designed for street use and BBS does not recommend them to be used off of a track. The barrel sections are roll formed and they are considerably thinner on these wheels than they would be on one of their road wheels. It saves weight, but it makes the wheel much more likely to be damaged by potholes, etc."

so bc a specific BBS "race" wheel isn't meant for street use all light weight wheels don't pass your strict testing?

[09TRD]

Originally Posted by Russelt3hPirate

I don't have enkeis.

So my CCWs will bend on your roads? but they weigh 25lbs for a 17x10?

please help me understand your logic and where your basis of argument is coming from.

by adding more material increasing weight does not automatically make a wheel "stronger" then a lighter counterpart.

I've also seen higher weight wheels bend. Alot of times it's due to the tire pressure being overly low, or the sidewall height being too short for the type of road.

Wheels are designed to bend when an extreme situation happens, it's better for them to bend then break.

by your "weight" standards those 17" centerlines wouldn't put up to squat. So what makes you think their 15" version is worth anything? because the website said so? :lol:

I feel spoke design (less spacing between spokes), proper sidewall height, proper tire pressure, and as much as safe pothole avoidance is going to save your wheels more then adding 2lbs of metal somewhere.

I'm telling you that any "RACING" wheel isn't designed for STREET use.

Period.

That's because the barrel sections and the spoke sections are much thinner than what would be considered appropriate for STREET use.

Race tracks are SMOOTH, so thinner walls (which means lighter weight) are OK there.

Those Centerlines are thick-walled, FORGED 6061-T6 wheels.

They are MUCH stronger than any thin walled, cast wheel.

6061-T6's mechanical properties (e.g. yield strength) blow away the properties of cast aluminums.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6061_aluminum

Compare those propertied to A356 aluminum, which is the most common aluminum used in cast wheels:

http://www.mse.mtu.edu/classes/my413...inum/a356.html

[Tamago]

i think this guy should change his thread title to "seeking advice from people who will agree with me"

because you're talking right now to two people who KNOW

[Tamago]

Originally Posted by 09TRD

I'm telling you that any "RACING" wheel isn't designed for STREET use.

Period.

That's because the barrel sections and the spoke sections are much thinner than what would be considered appropriate for STREET use.

Race tracks are SMOOTH, so thinner walls (which means lighter weight) are OK there.

question...

what makes a wheel a "racing" wheel? are AMERICAN RACING wheels RACING wheels because their name has RACING in it?

[09TRD]

Originally Posted by Tamago

question...

what makes a wheel a "racing" wheel?...

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/w...treet-use.html

"A word on BBS Race wheels for street use
I see many inquiries and threads on these wheels, and I think it's fair to warn people that don't know that these wheels were not designed for street use and BBS does not recommend them to be used off of a track. The barrel sections are roll formed and they are considerably thinner on these wheels than they would be on one of their road wheels. It saves weight, but it makes the wheel much more likely to be damaged by potholes, etc."

Cast aluminum racing wheels are typically made from A356 aluminum and are very light. By definition they can't be strong, since the material properties of that aluminum are quite low and since real racing wheels use very thin walls (in the barrel and the spokes).

Here are the material properties of A356, which is the most commonly used aluminum in cast wheels. They are laughable compared to a good forging:

http://www.mse.mtu.edu/classes/my413...inum/a356.html

Centerline wheels are fabricated exclusively from 6061-T6, which is a forged, aircraft grade aluminum. They also use thick walls, since they are designed primarily for STREET use.

http://asm.matweb.com/search/Specifi...ssnum=MA6061T6

[Russelt3hPirate]

Originally Posted by 09TRD

I'm telling you that any "RACING" wheel isn't designed for STREET use.

Period.

That's because the barrel sections and the spoke sections are much thinner than what would be considered appropriate for STREET use.

Race tracks are SMOOTH, so thinner walls (which means lighter weight) are OK there.

Those Centerlines are thick-walled, FORGED 6061-T6 wheels.

They are MUCH stronger than any thin walled, cast wheel.

6061-T6's mechanical properties (e.g. yield strength) blow away the properties of cast aluminums.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6061_aluminum

Compare those propertied to A356 aluminum, which is the most common aluminum used in cast wheels:

http://www.mse.mtu.edu/classes/my413...inum/a356.html

I'm just trying to understand your logic, you keep repeating the same thing over and over without actually addressing anything.

Would you consider a wheel that meets JWL standards good enough for the street?

The wheels I have are 15x7 +35mm Forged, so am I good to go?

I'd like to see a list of companies you feel make quality street wheels, just to get an idea of what you consider a "street" wheel.

I'm also curious if you're lumping all BBS wheels in with the "BBS Racing" wheels. I've had BBS wheels on my other car for ages now and they have held up amazingly well.

also, not all race tracks are smooth, and track wheels generally face more strain then your average street wheel. You ever hit a berm at 45 mph? those aren't little rumble strips like you feel on your xbox. :lol:

it's funny, I hear the exact opposite logic from people daily. "these wheels wont see the track so I don't need something forged/strong/stay in one piece"

and now you're saying that a quality wheel that is lightweight and forged is going to bend used on the street?

can you define "racing" wheel for us.

[Loren]

14 pounds isn't "obscenely heavy" for a 15x7, but it's not exactly "light", either.

My 15x7 Falken Hanabi's weigh just a tick over 11 pounds each and cost about $89 each. THAT is light and cheap. But, not everyone likes the styling. My goals were "light and cheap", so I didn't care.

To answer your rubbing question: I'd stick with 195/55's. I've not had any rubbing with those. Had some with 215/50's (Toyo T1-R, which were actually closer to 205). And I'm on 15x7 with 41mm offset.

I also had rubbing on the upper fender liner under hard cornering with 195/55's on a 15x7 with 32mm offset. Definitely stick with offset in the 40-45mm range unless you value the bling of "flushness" more than not rubbing.

[Russelt3hPirate]

Originally Posted by 09TRD

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/w...treet-use.html

"A word on BBS Race wheels for street use
I see many inquiries and threads on these wheels, and I think it's fair to warn people that don't know that these wheels were not designed for street use and BBS does not recommend them to be used off of a track. The barrel sections are roll formed and they are considerably thinner on these wheels than they would be on one of their road wheels. It saves weight, but it makes the wheel much more likely to be damaged by potholes, etc."

Cast aluminum racing wheels are typically made from A356 aluminum and are very light. By definition they can't be strong, since the material properties of that aluminum are quite low and since real racing wheels use very thin walls (in the barrel and the spokes).

Here are the material properties of A356, which is the most commonly used aluminum in cast wheels. They are laughable compared to a good forging:

http://www.mse.mtu.edu/classes/my413...inum/a356.html

we got it, you read somewhere that a racing wheel from BBS isn't for the street

there are plenty of Racing wheels that aren't designed for street use and are sold as exactly that "only for Racing". Not all wheels that are light were designed with that one goal in mind, many wheels you would consider "race" wheels were designed for dual duty purposes and can handle the rigors of street use assuming you're not a retard.

will you please answer our questions?

[Russelt3hPirate]

Originally Posted by Loren

unless you value the bling of "flushness" more than not rubbing.

with the proper setup you can have bling flushness and no rubbing. :)

just takes a little extra work.

[09TRD]

Originally Posted by Russelt3hPirate

we got it, you read somewhere that a racing wheel from BBS isn't for the street

there are plenty of Racing wheels that aren't designed for street use and are sold as exactly that "only for Racing". Not all wheels that are light were designed with that one goal in mind, many wheels you would consider "race" wheels were designed for dual duty purposes and can handle the rigors of street use assuming you're not a retard.

will you please answer our questions?

Manufacturers go to extremes to save weight and increase fuel economy.

Cast aluminum wheels are common in OEM applications.

Show me just ONE OEM cast wheel that weighs anything close to 10 pounds. (20 pounds is closer to realty for most 15" and 16" OEM aluminum wheels).

You can't - despite the fact that such a wheel would be "win win" for the manufactures since they'd be CHEAPER to build (less material) and would yield a slight gain in fuel economy (lower weight and reduced rotating intertia).

So why don't they do it?

Answer: Because such a wheel would produce a flood of warranty claims in the form of bent rims.

Thin wall, cast aluminum wheels will BEND on roads like we have here in the Northeast and I've personally seen dozens that have.