US Yaris to be imported from France ?

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by tk-421

Regarding availability of raw materials, I can safely state that some of the countries that a few people here are having problems with have a huge advantage over some of the more established "car making countries". I'm not going to go into details here, but 5 mins. spent on Wikipedia will give anyone a good enough idea of how raw materials are distributed around the world. Mexico, for example, has ample amounts of pretty much everything that's needed to build a car from scratch, whereas Japan tends to have a bit of a harder time getting everything together (which is why is costs more to build a Prius than a Hummer).

Regarding transportation costs, I would think that moving an entire production line to Mexico to cater to the US and Canada markets would be a huge plus as well, considering that it would somewhat cheaper to move finished cars up the border instead of across the ocean.

Then again, they are going to be building cars in France and moving them across yet another ocean so, like you say, there must be other factors at play...



I think keeping costs low is only part of the equation. Keeping current customers loyal and gaining new ones is of crucial importance as well. But if I were to boil it all down to one word, it would be this: Consistency. It is unequivocally the most important thing for any company in any market. You have to hit as many high marks with as little money as you possibly can, and you have to do it reliably enough.

In my opinion, Toyota has been very consistent over the years, and I would think they would rather perform mass-harakiri before they started gambling with something that takes so much time and dedication to earn. If they're willing to move entire factories (and thus deprive their local population of jobs), I'm pretty sure it's for very good reasons (i.e. there has to be some advantage to building cars on areas that don't have earthquakes every 5 minutes).

I guess that's basically why I'm being so stubborn about this. That and my general faith in people, no matter where they sprouted from. Sure, there are many bad apples out there, but I think most people mean to do good (as in good products, good deeds, etc) if they're given a fair shake. And that's what consistency is all about, right?

I pulled up Yarisworld this morning and read this post. Quite interesting --- especially about the raw materials available in Mexico and effects of the earthquake. I hadn't thought about either of those things. While reading what you wrote about Mexico I started thinking about how it is really starting to become a 'sweet spot' so to speak for auto production, especially for the U.S. market and that the availabilty of raw materials you discuss has got to be part of the cost reduction equation. The next thought that popped into my head is that NAFTA is likely also part of the equation. I didn't have time to reply this morning and am only now coming back to the site.

While I was booting up my computer a few minutes ago a particular thought popped into my head: I've read quite a few very intelligent replies on this thread (many smart people here!) but there is one thing it seems (by reading the posts) that all of us (including me) have failed to do up to this point, and that is......do an internet search titled "Why is Toyota moving production of the U.S. spec Yaris to France". I did this search on the DuckDuckGo search engine and the top ranked hit provided some concise answers. This top ranked hit is a Yahoo News! reprint of a Reuters article. The two 'lead' reasons in the article--- 1. The strong Yen (which we have already discussed and would explain the move outside Japan, but not to any specific location) and 2. SOARING ENERGY COSTS---Aha---not discussed in the article, but I know France has been touted for its high percentage of Nuclear power providing cheap (cheaper than some alternatives) , clean, and reliable energy. The article mentions other reasons---labor regulations (I would think must be re Japanese law -- not union specific (I would think) as I've read Toyota's union (specifically) is rather toothless----also High Corporate taxes---and also (the last reason mentioned).....and this somewhat ties into an earth shattering (ha ha) point tk-421 mentioned.......THE LACK OF COMING TO AGREEMENT ON A PROPER ENERGY POLICY IN THE WAKE OF THE EARTHQUAKE.

Sorry this post is a bit disjointed---I neglected to bring my power cord with me----the battery in my laptop is about to die and I want to get this posted before the battery dies and I likely lose the post.

[tk-421]

Originally Posted by why?

raw materials are not a problem. components would be. Like in Toyota's recent supposed engine revving to kingdom come issue, we found out different sub assemblies came from different companies depending on where the car was assembled. So final manufacture will be definitely tightly controlled, but sub assemblies they purchase from other companies they don't have any control over, and have to hope that company did their job.

There's no oversight on sub assemblies at all? So how can they possibly reduce their cost on sub assemblies in the future?

and then, just like these moronic semi automatic shifters that smart and now toyota offer in some cars, sometimes specific parts are just a bad idea from the beginning.

This ties in with what I said before... That's what happens when the shiny popular guy gets the job promotion instead of that nameless nerd at the corner that everybody ignored in high school.

And no, I'm not saying this out of remorse...

[tk-421]

Originally Posted by nookandcrannycar

I pulled up Yarisworld this morning and read this post. Quite interesting --- especially about the raw materials available in Mexico and effects of the earthquake. I hadn't thought about either of those things. While reading what you wrote about Mexico I started thinking about how it is really starting to become a 'sweet spot' so to speak for auto production, especially for the U.S. market and that the availabilty of raw materials you discuss has got to be part of the cost reduction equation. The next thought that popped into my head is that NAFTA is likely also part of the equation. I didn't have time to reply this morning and am only now coming back to the site.

Correct. There's much benefit to be had by everyone willing to look beyond silly misconceptions about quality in other countries. Say what you want about capitalism, but it tends to steer progress and evolution in the "right direction" very quickly.

While I was booting up my computer a few minutes ago a particular thought popped into my head:

[...]

The two 'lead' reasons in the article--- 1. The strong Yen (which we have already discussed and would explain the move outside Japan, but not to any specific location) and 2. SOARING ENERGY COSTS---Aha

Aha indeed! Good to know that we're not completely hopeless...

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by tk-421

Correct. There's much benefit to be had by everyone willing to look beyond silly misconceptions about quality in other countries. Say what you want about capitalism, but it tends to steer progress and evolution in the "right direction" very quickly.



Aha indeed! Good to know that we're not completely hopeless...

Thanks. I've been chuckling to myself about it as I did errands today. It's like we were a bunch of professors standing around a fire, all contributing interesting tidbits to the discussion and the most obvious question was a stick poking out of the fire along the ground and I happened to be the one who tripped over it. If not me, someone alse would have had the same thought. The one interesting point from the article I didn't have time to include earlier (I tried to save the article to my hard drive right after completing the post and my battery died before I could save the page!!) is that the plant in France, in its current condition, is not ready to handle the production transfer. The article states the plant cannot currently "meet the specific needs of the North American market" so , "the shift will require investment of an additional 8 million Euros/10 million USD" for the French plant to meet the specific needs.

[CTScott]

I just returned from a 15 day trip all over Italy. The incredible quantity of high mileage, 1st gen French-built, Yaris all over Italy reinforced my belief that this will not be an issue.

Also, speaking with some owners of said 1st gens (while standing in line a gelato shops) was interesting, as none complained of any issues (and the highest mileage one that I spoke with the owner of had 277,000 km on it) and most believed that if they had bought a Fiat, Lancia, Dacia, Renault, Opel, Citroen, etc. of the same vintage, that they would not have had the same experience with reliability.

[bronsin]

Is it true then the Yaris will at some point be coming from France?

[edmscan]

Originally Posted by bronsin

Is it true then the Yaris will at some point be coming from France?

According to the link at the beginning of this thread. The US Yaris models will be built in France starting in May 2013.

[bronsin]

If the waterpump issue came up after a switch to production in France, I wonder how many people would have never bought another Yaris again?

[Billiam]

Originally Posted by bronsin

If the waterpump issue came up after a switch to production in France, I wonder how many people would have never bought another Yaris again?

The die-hard JDM guys tend to overlook issues like that as just flukes. But produce that same vehicle outside of Japan and any type of issue pops up...well, then it's the fact that it wasn't built in Japan....that's the reason. Those lazy French workers....those darn American workers....etc.

[bronsin]

Originally Posted by Billiam

The die-hard JDM guys tend to overlook issues like that as just flukes. But produce that same vehicle outside of Japan and any type of issue pops up...well, then it's the fact that it wasn't built in Japan....that's the reason. Those lazy French workers....those darn American workers....etc.

I put a lot of stock in what CTS says when he says the French Gen 1's are good.

I wonder do THEIR waterpumps fail like ours do?

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by CTScott

I just returned from a 15 day trip all over Italy. The incredible quantity of high mileage, 1st gen French-built, Yaris all over Italy reinforced my belief that this will not be an issue.

Also, speaking with some owners of said 1st gens (while standing in line a gelato shops) was interesting, as none complained of any issues (and the highest mileage one that I spoke with the owner of had 277,000 km on it) and most believed that if they had bought a Fiat, Lancia, Dacia, Renault, Opel, Citroen, etc. of the same vintage, that they would not have had the same experience with reliability.

Good. I was hoping that MRPJ's experience wouldn't be the norm. I hope you had a great time. It is a fantastic country. If someone told me I had to live in some other country I've traveled to (rather than living in the US), it would be Italy.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by bronsin

I put a lot of stock in what CTS says when he says the French Gen 1's are good.

I wonder do THEIR waterpumps fail like ours do?

I agree. Honest feedback from from high odometer mileage owners of production from that plant is, IMHO, the most valuable barometer...and any honest revelation along these lines is valuable, but it is especially credible coming from CTS.

I watched the whole video on YouTube that Hershey recently (on Yarisworld) provided the link to and the way the equipment on the car can help mold your driving style to get the best MPG is incredible. If the Yaris is still available with the 5 speed manual when I'm ready to get a new car it will be a tough decision between the Prius C and the Yaris. If the Yaris still has the hand crank windows available at that point, the decision will be even harder!

[Billiam]

Originally Posted by bronsin

I wonder do THEIR waterpumps fail like ours do?

In the end though, how many have actually failed? I've owned 4 1NZ powered cars and have never had a pump failure. Remember that this site, like all car sites, tends to be a highly concentrated group of owners...many who end up at places like this because they are having issues. Yet, despite what may seem like huge numbers, YW members account for but a tiny % of the actual total number of owners out there. In other words...problems can sometimes seem bigger than what they actually are. What occurs here is not necessarily indicative of what's actually happening out in the rest of the world.

[bronsin]

Originally Posted by Billiam

In the end though, how many have actually failed? I've owned 4 1NZ powered cars and have never had a pump failure. Remember that this site, like all car sites, tends to be a highly concentrated group of owners...many who end up at places like this because they are having issues. Yet, despite what may seem like huge numbers, YW members account for but a tiny % of the actual total number of owners out there. In other words...problems can sometimes seem bigger than what they actually are. What occurs here is not necessarily indicative of what's actually happening out in the rest of the world.

I agree. But thats not what leads me to say that.

When I had my water pump replaced under warranty at the dealer the mechanics and the manager had a little conversation that went like "We got another waterpump!"

Also I bought one of the first ECHOs and have followed the car on the internet for 12 or more years. Ive not heard of a single ECHO ower replacing their waterpump EVER let alone under warranty.

Which is hard to explain considering the ECHO and the Yaris share the same engine.

But there it is...

[nookandcrannycar]

A reason to cheer the Yaris production move to France?...... France does have earthquakes but, from what I have read, the only reactor located in a region (other than Asia or North America) where a significant earthquake could even be felt was in Armenia in 1988 where a 6.9 quake had an epicenter 75km from a reactor. The operation (power delivery) of the reactor was not interrupted by the earthquake.

[Billiam]

Originally Posted by bronsin

When I had my water pump replaced under warranty at the dealer the mechanics and the manager had a little conversation that went like "We got another waterpump!"

Yeah...but that would be like going into the doctor's office and hearing the doctor say..."we've got another sick one". Well sure....sick people go to the doctor. But how many people out in the rest of the world are not sick?

I saw this type of thing all the time during my years as a service advisor.

[bronsin]

Ive heard the problems in Japan are affecting production of everything there with many Japanese manufacturers, not just those who make cars, considering the possibilities of moving their production overseas.

One wonders is that is why the Yaris production went to France?

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by bronsin

Ive heard the problems in Japan are affecting production of everything there with many Japanese manufacturers, not just those who make cars, considering the possibilities of moving their production overseas.

One wonders is that is why the Yaris production went to France?

The Reuters article that I found (and mentioned ) deep into the 'Yaris production moving to France' thread stated that the two primary reasons are the rising yen and the 'skyrocketing cost of energy'. I wonder if the problems you are referring to have been included in the 'skyrocketing cost of energy' equation that is in the minds of the top Toyota executives.