Swaybar vs. lowering springs - Page 3 - Toyota Yaris Forums

eht13 · 03-09-2010, 02:05 PM

^ Definitely. Just wanted to clarify my driving experience so far, and ask those other questions regarding relative downsides. Thanks.

Loren · 03-09-2010, 04:02 PM

It's like this: The typical driver in an emergency situation tends to panic and over-react. If they try to make an evasive maneuver, they do it too hard. If they try to slow down, they slam their foot to the floor (and lock up the brakes if they don't have ABS). Cars are designed for this behavior. They are designed to keep the car pointed in the right direction as much as possible, even in those awkward situations where the driver has done something stupid.

Adding a rear swaybar to your Yaris removes some of that protection and puts the burden of "not being stupid" on you. If you continue to drive like the "typical driver", you'll be much more likely to lose control of the car due to something like trying to execute a overly-exuberant turn while braking with all your might. If you have your wits about you and know NOT to do that sort of thing, there is absolutely no downside at all to adding a rear swaybar.

In short, there's a reason the car didn't come that way from the factory. But, also bear in mind that TRD wouldn't offer a part that was going to make your car unsafe to drive. It's not like the TRD rear bar is going to suddenly make your car undriveable or anything... just slightly less idiot-proof.

eht13 · 03-09-2010, 05:16 PM

Makes sense... thanks!

eht13 · 03-12-2010, 10:49 PM

Just one more thing with this thread...

Please post here with whether you have:
- no suspension mods
- sway bar only
- lowering springs only
- a combination (such as sway bar and lowering springs)
- other (such as coilovers)
... and what your reasons for that set-up/decision are.

Thanks.

*tk-421* · 03-12-2010, 11:18 PM

I got springs first (Tanabe NFs) and then a sway bar a few months later (U*R 23mm). My decision on the former was based (mostly) on looks, and on the latter based on handling. I'm also considering some Tokico (sp?) shocks in a few months.

I highly encourage you to get both the springs and the bar if you can, even if you're not interested in how much better it looks after swapping springs.

CtrlAltDefeat · 03-13-2010, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tk-421

I got springs first (Tanabe NFs) and then a sway bar a few months later (U*R 23mm). My decision on the former was based (mostly) on looks, and on the latter based on handling. I'm also considering some Tokico (sp?) shocks in a few months.

I highly encourage you to get both the springs and the bar if you can, even if you're not interested in how much better it looks after swapping springs.

^+1^

I did the same thing. I got Tanabe DF springs first (as well as an NST short shift kit, and under-drive pulley), then a sway bar later. I got the springs because they would make the car look good, and make the car handle better. I am thinking about shocks, soon, but I would prefer to buy coil-overs. Again I also agree with tk, try to get both, (but I would get springs first, if you can't)

froger · 03-13-2010, 11:50 PM

TRD SPRINGS AND SHOCK ,TRD SWAY BAR , TOYOTA OEM CAMBER BOLTS
THIS IN REGARDS TO WHICH IS BETTER , THIS ALL DEPENDS ON THE ALIGNMENT SET UP. BY FACTORY YARIS DON'T HAVE A RACING SET UP SO WHEN YOU LOWER YOUR CAR WITH FACTORY SPECS, IT WON'T HANDLE WELL .THE KEY THING IS TO ADJUST THE CAMBER ,ZERO OUT THE TOE, IF YOU ARE USING SPRINGS BUT IF YOU PLAN ON USING FACTORY SPECS OR IF YOUR NOT A PERSON WHO IS MECHANICALLY KNOWLEDGEABLE JUST STICK TO THE SWAY BAR . THE REASON WHY THE SWAY WORKS ON FACTORY SETTING IS BECAUSE THE FRONT TIRES LACK THE ANGLE NEEDED TO CONTACT THE ROAD DURING CORNERING ,WHAT THE SWAY BAR DOES IS IT DISTRIBUTES MORE OF THE WEIGHT TO THE REAR CAUSING THE REAR TO TAKE MORE OF THE CORNERING FORCE. THIS INTERN CAUSES THE REAR TIRES TO HEAT UP FASTER AND LOOSE TRACTION ,THIS IS WHAT CAUSES THE OVER STEER OR NEUTRAL FEEL WITH THE SWAY BAR. I USE THE SWAY BAR ONLY BECAUSE IN WINTER THIS RACING SET UP WITH THE COMBINATION OF WINTER TIRES BECOMES TO UNSTABLE SO I ADJUST IT SO
I HAVE LESS CAMBER AND MORE TOE ONLY IN WINTER TO MAKE IT A LITTLE MORE STABLE.

CtrlAltDefeat · 03-14-2010, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by froger

TRD SPRINGS AND SHOCK ,TRD SWAY BAR , TOYOTA OEM CAMBER BOLTS
THIS IN REGARDS TO WHICH IS BETTER , THIS ALL DEPENDS ON THE ALIGNMENT SET UP. BY FACTORY YARIS DON'T HAVE A RACING SET UP SO WHEN YOU LOWER YOUR CAR WITH FACTORY SPECS, IT WON'T HANDLE WELL .THE KEY THING IS TO ADJUST THE CAMBER ,ZERO OUT THE TOE, IF YOU ARE USING SPRINGS BUT IF YOU PLAN ON USING FACTORY SPECS OR IF YOUR NOT A PERSON WHO IS MECHANICALLY KNOWLEDGEABLE JUST STICK TO THE SWAY BAR . THE REASON WHY THE SWAY WORKS ON FACTORY SETTING IS BECAUSE THE FRONT TIRES LACK THE ANGLE NEEDED TO CONTACT THE ROAD DURING CORNERING ,WHAT THE SWAY BAR DOES IS IT DISTRIBUTES MORE OF THE WEIGHT TO THE REAR CAUSING THE REAR TO TAKE MORE OF THE CORNERING FORCE. THIS INTERN CAUSES THE REAR TIRES TO HEAT UP FASTER AND LOOSE TRACTION ,THIS IS WHAT CAUSES THE OVER STEER OR NEUTRAL FEEL WITH THE SWAY BAR. I USE THE SWAY BAR ONLY BECAUSE IN WINTER THIS RACING SET UP WITH THE COMBINATION OF WINTER TIRES BECOMES TO UNSTABLE SO I ADJUST IT SO
I HAVE LESS CAMBER AND MORE TOE ONLY IN WINTER TO MAKE IT A LITTLE MORE STABLE.

IMHO... There is so much wrong with this explanation...

cali yaris · 03-14-2010, 12:31 AM

Quote:

WHAT THE SWAY BAR DOES IS IT DISTRIBUTES MORE OF THE WEIGHT TO THE REAR CAUSING THE REAR TO TAKE MORE OF THE CORNERING FORCE. THIS INTERN CAUSES THE REAR TIRES TO HEAT UP FASTER AND LOOSE TRACTION ,THIS IS WHAT CAUSES THE OVER STEER OR NEUTRAL FEEL WITH THE SWAY BAR.

This is completely incorrect, sorry.

kelevra · 03-14-2010, 12:51 AM

Some interesting info in this thread.
I'm looking to keep the power stock, but upgrade the handling as I enjoy the light weight of the car and throwing it into turns. I'm an ex sport bike racer so I'm pretty smooth with the controls (not bragging, just saying). I'd like to add the rear sway, springs, shocks and grippier tires, preferable all at once.

Please tell me what differences I might feel if I went with the TRD 19mm or the other brand with the 23mm? Springs that improve the handling but don't wreck the day to day driving experience? Same with the shocks. I'd like to get some nice aftermarket rims, but don't want to go much bigger then stock as I want to keep the ride relatively nice.
I don't plan on doing any autocross events, I just want the handling to improve sharply for when I get the itch. Basically, when the weather is nice I ride my CBR1000RR, but it would be nice after 2 years of owning this yaris hatch, to get the suspension in higher tune. Thanks for all replys.

CtrlAltDefeat · 03-14-2010, 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kelevra

Some interesting info in this thread.
I'm looking to keep the power stock, but upgrade the handling as I enjoy the light weight of the car and throwing it into turns. I'm an ex sport bike racer so I'm pretty smooth with the controls (not bragging, just saying). I'd like to add the rear sway, springs, shocks and grippier tires, preferable all at once.

Please tell me what differences I might feel if I went with the TRD 19mm or the other brand with the 23mm? Springs that improve the handling but don't wreck the day to day driving experience? Same with the shocks. I'd like to get some nice aftermarket rims, but don't want to go much bigger then stock as I want to keep the ride relatively nice.
I don't plan on doing any autocross events, I just want the handling to improve sharply for when I get the itch. Basically, when the weather is nice I ride my CBR1000RR, but it would be nice after 2 years of owning this yaris hatch, to get the suspension in higher tune. Thanks for all replys.

The different brands of sway bars are basically the same. The thicker the bar, the stiffer it is, and the greater the effect. (decreased understeer/increased oversteer at the limit) You want to transform the handling? Get light weight wheels, with sticky tires, coilovers, and a rear sway bar. What size wheels? I've been debating over that for a while now. Tamago know quite a bit and he wrote an excellent guide for handling here. He only mentions 15s, but I think it is because larger sizes will generally weigh too much.

As far as power goes, you mentioned you wanted to keep it stock, but I am completely in love with my NST 10% underdrive crank pulley. Prolly the best bang-for-the-buck part you can get (under $120). The engine revs quicker, and additional few HP is lots of fun... (just my $0.02)

Loren · 03-14-2010, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CtrlAltDefeat

IMHO... There is so much wrong with this explanation...

If he's talking about a front swaybar, it's somewhat correct. Front swaybar transfers weight to the outside rear tire giving it more traction. Great for most RWD cars. Not so much for a FWD car.

What a stiffer rear swaybar does is transfers weight to the outside FRONT tire, which is the tire that is doing the most work when your FWD car is trying to power out of a turn.

It accomplishes this by taking weight off of the inside rear tire in a turn. Since weight transfers diagonally on a car, any weight taken off of the inside rear goes to the outside front.

Ain't physics fun?

eht13 · 03-19-2010, 09:33 PM

THIS is pretty interesting... this explanation and information is pretty accurate, right?

Loren · 03-19-2010, 11:40 PM

Decent article. #1 and #2 could use a lot more explanation. I get what he's trying to say, but he's not saying it very well, and it could be misleading to a lot of people.

#3 is pretty much spot on. Very well explained with good examples. That's what it's all about. Read it, know it, live it.

CtrlAltDefeat · 03-20-2010, 12:32 AM

so if i get #3 right; on our FWD cars (with a rear sway bar), the compression on the outside suspension, pulls the inside suspension/wheel upwards, pivoting on the back inside and front outside wheels, putting more weight front inside wheel. Am i right?

Loren · 03-20-2010, 07:14 PM

Close.

Weight transfers diagonally across the car. Weight that comes off of the inside rear (when it is pulled up due to the outside rear suspension compressing) is transferred to the outside front, which the the wheel that needs the most traction on a FWD. SOME of that weight also transfers to the inside front due to the dynamics involved, helps reduce inside front wheel spin when powering out of a turn.

SimTronik · 10-04-2010, 07:59 PM

For a everydy common driver.. sway bar and maybe lowering springs (hesitate on that cuz quebec's road are terrible and winters too) is just right or if i read ya'll once you get started into that you have to change springs shocks etc etc... ? I was planning to only buy a rear sway bar and a front strut tower brace.

(already own good tires)

03-09-2010, 04:02 PM	#38
Loren What? Drives: 2007 Yaris LB Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Safety Harbor, FL Posts: 1,006	It's like this: The typical driver in an emergency situation tends to panic and over-react. If they try to make an evasive maneuver, they do it too hard. If they try to slow down, they slam their foot to the floor (and lock up the brakes if they don't have ABS). Cars are designed for this behavior. They are designed to keep the car pointed in the right direction as much as possible, even in those awkward situations where the driver has done something stupid. Adding a rear swaybar to your Yaris removes some of that protection and puts the burden of "not being stupid" on you. If you continue to drive like the "typical driver", you'll be much more likely to lose control of the car due to something like trying to execute a overly-exuberant turn while braking with all your might. If you have your wits about you and know NOT to do that sort of thing, there is absolutely no downside at all to adding a rear swaybar. In short, there's a reason the car didn't come that way from the factory. But, also bear in mind that TRD wouldn't offer a part that was going to make your car unsafe to drive. It's not like the TRD rear bar is going to suddenly make your car undriveable or anything... just slightly less idiot-proof. __________________ ----------------------- Loren@InvisibleSun.org -----------------------

03-12-2010, 11:18 PM	#41
tk-421 Super Moderator View User's Garage Drives: 5D-07-LB Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Dagobah Posts: 4,263	I got springs first (Tanabe NFs) and then a sway bar a few months later (UR 23mm). My decision on the former was based (mostly) on looks, and on the latter based on handling. I'm also considering some Tokico (sp?) shocks in a few months. I highly encourage you to get both the springs and the bar if you can, even if you're not interested in how much better it looks after swapping springs. __________________ --[ FORUM RULES ]--[ SEARCHING TIPS ]--[ EYELIDS PICS ]--[ RBK SPOILER ]--[ BEST/WORST INVESTMENTS ]--*

03-13-2010, 11:50 PM	#43
froger View User's Garage Drives: 08 yaris 1.8 dual vvti 5sp Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Calgary AB Canada Posts: 38	NI HAO TRD SPRINGS AND SHOCK ,TRD SWAY BAR , TOYOTA OEM CAMBER BOLTS THIS IN REGARDS TO WHICH IS BETTER , THIS ALL DEPENDS ON THE ALIGNMENT SET UP. BY FACTORY YARIS DON'T HAVE A RACING SET UP SO WHEN YOU LOWER YOUR CAR WITH FACTORY SPECS, IT WON'T HANDLE WELL .THE KEY THING IS TO ADJUST THE CAMBER ,ZERO OUT THE TOE, IF YOU ARE USING SPRINGS BUT IF YOU PLAN ON USING FACTORY SPECS OR IF YOUR NOT A PERSON WHO IS MECHANICALLY KNOWLEDGEABLE JUST STICK TO THE SWAY BAR . THE REASON WHY THE SWAY WORKS ON FACTORY SETTING IS BECAUSE THE FRONT TIRES LACK THE ANGLE NEEDED TO CONTACT THE ROAD DURING CORNERING ,WHAT THE SWAY BAR DOES IS IT DISTRIBUTES MORE OF THE WEIGHT TO THE REAR CAUSING THE REAR TO TAKE MORE OF THE CORNERING FORCE. THIS INTERN CAUSES THE REAR TIRES TO HEAT UP FASTER AND LOOSE TRACTION ,THIS IS WHAT CAUSES THE OVER STEER OR NEUTRAL FEEL WITH THE SWAY BAR. I USE THE SWAY BAR ONLY BECAUSE IN WINTER THIS RACING SET UP WITH THE COMBINATION OF WINTER TIRES BECOMES TO UNSTABLE SO I ADJUST IT SO I HAVE LESS CAMBER AND MORE TOE ONLY IN WINTER TO MAKE IT A LITTLE MORE STABLE.

03-14-2010, 12:51 AM	#46
kelevra 2012 CBR1000RR Hoo Yaaa Drives: 08 3 door Hatch Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Empire State Posts: 55	Some interesting info in this thread. I'm looking to keep the power stock, but upgrade the handling as I enjoy the light weight of the car and throwing it into turns. I'm an ex sport bike racer so I'm pretty smooth with the controls (not bragging, just saying). I'd like to add the rear sway, springs, shocks and grippier tires, preferable all at once. Please tell me what differences I might feel if I went with the TRD 19mm or the other brand with the 23mm? Springs that improve the handling but don't wreck the day to day driving experience? Same with the shocks. I'd like to get some nice aftermarket rims, but don't want to go much bigger then stock as I want to keep the ride relatively nice. I don't plan on doing any autocross events, I just want the handling to improve sharply for when I get the itch. Basically, when the weather is nice I ride my CBR1000RR, but it would be nice after 2 years of owning this yaris hatch, to get the suspension in higher tune. Thanks for all replys. __________________ Former Admin on a Moto site

03-19-2010, 11:40 PM	#50
Loren What? Drives: 2007 Yaris LB Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Safety Harbor, FL Posts: 1,006	Decent article. #1 and #2 could use a lot more explanation. I get what he's trying to say, but he's not saying it very well, and it could be misleading to a lot of people. #3 is pretty much spot on. Very well explained with good examples. That's what it's all about. Read it, know it, live it. __________________ ----------------------- Loren@InvisibleSun.org -----------------------

03-09-2010, 02:05 PM	#37
eht13 Drives: . Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: . Posts: 363	^ Definitely. Just wanted to clarify my driving experience so far, and ask those other questions regarding relative downsides. Thanks.

03-09-2010, 05:16 PM	#39
eht13 Drives: . Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: . Posts: 363	Makes sense... thanks!

03-12-2010, 10:49 PM	#40
eht13 Drives: . Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: . Posts: 363	Just one more thing with this thread... Please post here with whether you have: - no suspension mods - sway bar only - lowering springs only - a combination (such as sway bar and lowering springs) - other (such as coilovers) ... and what your reasons for that set-up/decision are. Thanks.

03-19-2010, 09:33 PM	#49
eht13 Drives: . Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: . Posts: 363	THIS is pretty interesting... this explanation and information is pretty accurate, right?

03-20-2010, 12:32 AM	#51
CtrlAltDefeat I ♥ Yaris View User's Garage Drives: Black 08 LB MT & red 97 Miata Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Indianapolis IN Posts: 1,313	so if i get #3 right; on our FWD cars (with a rear sway bar), the compression on the outside suspension, pulls the inside suspension/wheel upwards, pivoting on the back inside and front outside wheels, putting more weight front inside wheel. Am i right? __________________ The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. - Bertrand Russell

03-20-2010, 07:14 PM	#52
Loren What? Drives: 2007 Yaris LB Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Safety Harbor, FL Posts: 1,006	Close. Weight transfers diagonally across the car. Weight that comes off of the inside rear (when it is pulled up due to the outside rear suspension compressing) is transferred to the outside front, which the the wheel that needs the most traction on a FWD. SOME of that weight also transfers to the inside front due to the dynamics involved, helps reduce inside front wheel spin when powering out of a turn. __________________ ----------------------- Loren@InvisibleSun.org -----------------------

10-04-2010, 07:59 PM	#53
SimTronik Machinist View User's Garage Drives: Yaris sedan 2010 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Sts-Anges, Quebec, canada Posts: 198	For a everydy common driver.. sway bar and maybe lowering springs (hesitate on that cuz quebec's road are terrible and winters too) is just right or if i read ya'll once you get started into that you have to change springs shocks etc etc... ? I was planning to only buy a rear sway bar and a front strut tower brace. (already own good tires)

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