Seeking wheel advice from someone who KNOWS

[Russelt3hPirate]

Originally Posted by 09TRD

Manufacturers go to extremes to save weight and increase fuel economy.

Cast aluminum wheels are common in OEM applications.

Show me just ONE OEM cast wheel that weighs anything close to 10 pounds. (20 pounds is closer to realty for most 15" and 16" OEM aluminum wheels).

You can't - despite the fact that such a wheel would be "win win" for the manufactures since they're be CHEAPER to build (less material) and would increase a slight gain in fuel economy (lower weight and rotating intertia).

So why don't they do it?

Answer: Because such a wheel would produce a flood of warranty claims in the form of bent rims.

since when are we talking OEM's?

OEM wheels also need to stand up to some dumb girl running over a curb at 35 mph and being able to go home and not tell mommy.

I'll try and re-organize our questions for you in a easier to read format. BRB.

[09TRD]

Originally Posted by Loren

14 pounds isn't "obscenely heavy" for a 15x7, but it's not exactly "light", either.

My 15x7 Falken Hanabi's weigh just a tick over 11 pounds each and cost about $89 each. THAT is light and cheap. But, not everyone likes the styling. My goals were "light and cheap", so I didn't care.

To answer your rubbing question: I'd stick with 195/55's. I've not had any rubbing with those. Had some with 215/50's (Toyo T1-R, which were actually closer to 205). And I'm on 15x7 with 41mm offset.

I also had rubbing on the upper fender liner under hard cornering with 195/55's on a 15x7 with 32mm offset. Definitely stick with offset in the 40-45mm range unless you value the bling of "flushness" more than not rubbing.

Thanks for the advice.

Living here in the Northeast (pothole and frost-heave ravaged roads), I value strength.

I have yet to see an OEM aluminum wheel bend in this area, yet I've seen dozens of lightweight, cast aftermarket wheels bend.

Such is the cost of reducing weight by effectively removing material.

[09TRD]

Originally Posted by Russelt3hPirate

since when are we talking OEM's?

OEM wheels also need to stand up to some dumb girl running over a curb at 35 mph and being able to go home and not tell mommy.

I'll try and re-organize our questions for you in a easier to read format. BRB.

The fact of the matter is that 15" - 16" OEM aluminum wheels weigh ~ 20 pounds because they are cast (cheaper than forgings), yet still must be ROBUST enough to deal with the rigors of street use. That means thick barrel sections and reasonably robust spokes (each of which adds weight).

The manufacturers would save money AND increase fuel economy if they could use 10 pounds wheels of the same size instead.

They don't because warranty claims (in the form of bent/damaged wheels) would skyrocket in areas like the Northeast.

Any 15"+ cast aluminum wheel that is lighter than 17.5 pounds or so is pushing the limit of impact-related durability in street applications.

Anyone who wants a wheel in that size that is LIGHTER than that AND values durability on the street would be wise to choose a forging.

[Russelt3hPirate]

here's a little list of questions for you.

Would you consider a wheel that meets JWL standards good enough for the street?

The wheels I have are 15x7 +35mm Forged, so am I good to go?

I'd like to see a list of companies you feel make quality street wheels, just to get an idea of what you consider a "street" wheel.

I'm also curious if you're lumping all BBS wheels in with the "BBS Racing" wheels. I've had BBS wheels on my other car for ages now and they have held up amazingly well.

So my CCWs will bend on your roads? but they weigh 25lbs for a 17x10?

by your "weight" standards those 17" centerlines wouldn't put up to squat. So what makes you think their 15" version is worth anything? because the website said so?

so bc a specific BBS "race" wheel isn't meant for street use all light weight wheels don't pass your strict testing?


what makes a wheel a "racing" wheel? are AMERICAN RACING wheels RACING wheels because their name has RACING in it?

[Russelt3hPirate]

Originally Posted by 09TRD

Thanks for the advice.

Living here in the Northeast (pothole and frost-heave ravaged roads), I value strength.

I have yet to see an OEM aluminum wheel bend in this area, yet I've seen dozens of lightweight, cast aftermarket wheels bend.

Such is the cost of reducing weight by effectively removing material.

I've seen an OEM aluminum wheel fall apart in NJ.

[09TRD]

Originally Posted by Russelt3hPirate

I've seen an OEM aluminum wheel fall apart in NJ.

There are perhaps 5,000 of them for every one aftermarket wheel.

Try running a 10 pound aftermarket "racing wheel" in the NJ streets and see how long it lasts.

[Russelt3hPirate]

Originally Posted by 09TRD

The fact of the matter is that 15" - 16" OEM aluminum wheels weigh ~ 20 pounds because they are cast (cheaper than forgings), yet still must be ROBUST enough to deal with the rigors of street use. That means thick barrel sections and reasonably robust spokes (each of which adds weight).

The manufacturers would save money AND increase fuel economy if they could use 10 pounds wheels of the same size instead.

They don't because warranty claims (in the form of bent/damaged wheels) would skyrocket in areas like the Northeast.

Any 15"+ cast aluminum wheel that is lighter than 17.5 pounds or so is pushing the limit of impact-related durability in street applications.

Anyone who wants a wheel in that size that is LIGHTER than that AND values durability on the street would be wise to choose a forging.

Is this blue's clues? are you repeating yourself assuming we can't read?

come on now. I'd be more than happy to continue debating the value of an OEM wheel and why only a select few use Forged wheels, but that wasn't the topic of conversation.

I have a strong feeling you wanted someone to just agree with you and say "yes good choice" instead of someone actually criticizing your decision of picking a crappy wheel, at least they aren't knock offs.

[09TRD]

Originally Posted by Russelt3hPirate

by your "weight" standards those 17" centerlines wouldn't put up to squat.

Do you understand the difference between a 6061-T6 FORGING and a sand casting (e.g. A356)?

The Centerlines are FORGINGS (6061-T6). As such, they have a MUCH higher strength-to-weight ratio than cast wheels.

The forging is 1.5X as strong (35,000 PSI YIELD vs. 24,000 PSI YIELD for the casting).

In other words, the forged wheel could weigh roughly TWO-THIRDS that of its cast counterpart and still be just as strong.

[Russelt3hPirate]

Originally Posted by 09TRD

There are perhaps 5,000 of them for every one aftermarket wheel.

Try running a 10 pound aftermarket "racing wheel" in the NJ streets and see how long it lasts.

I'm sure people do, in fact I know people running 18" variants of my wheel (not 10 lbs since it's a 18" wheel) but they aren't destroyed as you seem to be implying.

also, if a wheel is damaged by the state owned roads you can get the state to buy you a new wheel.

Seen it done numerous times when it is properly documented.

[Russelt3hPirate]

Originally Posted by 09TRD

The Centerlines are FORGINGS. As such, they have a MUCH higher strength to weight ratio.

Do you understand the difference between a 6061-T6 FORGING and a sand casting (e.g. A356)?

The forging is 1.5X as strong (35,000 PSI YIELD vs. 24,000 PSI YIELD for the casting).

In other words, the forged wheel could weigh roughly TWO-THIRDS that of its cast counterpart and still be just as strong.

Thus, a 14 pound FORGED 15" wheel is actually quite strong.

Yes I understand.

so my 9.9lb Forged wheels are going to break? any minute now?

Are my wheels considered racing wheels and have an inferior build to your centerlines?

[Tamago]

Originally Posted by Russelt3hPirate

with the proper setup you can have bling flushness and no rubbing. :)

just takes a little extra work.

hours of labor at the alignment rack

[09TRD]

Originally Posted by Russelt3hPirate

I'm sure people do, in fact I know people running 18" variants of my wheel (not 10 lbs since it's a 18" wheel) but they aren't destroyed as you seem to be implying.

also, if a wheel is damaged by the state owned roads you can get the state to buy you a new wheel.

Seen it done numerous times when it is properly documented.

A wheel's strength is dictated primarily by it's wall thicknesses and it's material. (Spoke placement and the number of spokes is also a factor.)

A cast 15" wheel that weighs 10 pounds cannot, by definition, be a strong wheel in terms of impact loading (e.g. hitting a pothole).

Conversely, a forged (e.g. 6016-T6) 15" wheel that weighs 14 pounds will likely be VERY strong.

[Tamago]

Originally Posted by 09TRD

Thin wall, cast aluminum wheels will BEND on roads like we have here in the Northeast and I've personally seen dozens that have.

thin wall FORGED ALUMINUM WHEELS will bend as well, depending on the stupidity of the driver..

my wheels, Team Dynamic Pro Race 1's are used in the BTCC (in monohub form) and are a cast wheel..

now.. does that make them race wheels or street wheels?

[Tamago]

Originally Posted by 09TRD

A wheel's strength is dictated primarily by it's wall thicknesses and it's material.

A cast 15" wheel that weighs 10 pounds cannot, by definition, be a strong wheel in terms of impact loading (e.g. hitting a pothole).

so you'd rather drive around on wheels that look like they should be on a 1977 ford falcon simply because they're FORGED???

why are you buying wheels in the first place?

[09TRD]

Originally Posted by Russelt3hPirate

Yes I understand.

so my 9.9lb Forged wheels are going to break? any minute now?

Are my wheels considered racing wheels and have an inferior build to your centerlines?

I don't know nor do I care.

A 10 pound wheel - forged or not - is pushing the limits of durability on pothole filled streets - assuming the wheel isn't very narrow (e.g. 5" wide).

[Tamago]

Originally Posted by 09TRD

Conversely, a forged (e.g. 6016-T6) 15" wheel that weighs 14 pounds will likely be VERY strong.

or just improperly designed..

you should have a set of wheels made out of these:



you'll never bend them and they'll be plenty heavy enough for you

oh and cute typo on 6061-t6...

[Russelt3hPirate]

Originally Posted by 09TRD

I don't know nor do I care.

A 10 pound wheel - forged or not - is pushing the limits of durability on pothole filled streets - assuming the wheel isn't very narrow (e.g. 5" wide).

sweet.

So what happens when you find out your 15" centerline weighs 11lbs?

[Tamago]

Originally Posted by Russelt3hPirate

sweet.

So what happens when you find out your 15" centerline weighs 11lbs?

he'll send them back


oh btw, i've rocked a 350Z around RI.. your roads are actually VERY VERY NICE.. come to miami if you want to see some bad pothles