Megan Header Dyno Results - Page 2 - Toyota Yaris Forums

ChinoCharles · 01-04-2007, 01:28 AM

With the Yaris, they're all a must upgrade... haha.

A lightened crank pulley will do two things for an engine.

[1] It will increase power (both HP and TQ) through the entire powerband
[2] It will increase throttle response, directly decreasing 0-60 times

Most mods increase HP or torque in one specific area of the powerband. That header specifically increased HP by 3 at the high end and torque by 3 at the low end. I will have the dyno results online very soon so you can see this. A crank pulley will increase HP and torque throughout. If you gain 8 HP at 1000 RPM, it will be there at 5500. Same with torque.

It is the same theory behind a lightweight rim. Since there is less mass to rotate, your car will be faster as you shave more pounds off of your wheel weight. Now, think about a pulley directly connected to your crankshaft that weighs 60% less. That 60% weight savings transfers into power gained, but in all reality the power was always there... you're just giving your engine the means to perform to its full potential.

You can view various dyno sheets in the group buy thread. The header is wonderful (trust me, I have it!) but I'm betting the pulley will be a better bang for the buck.

nevermorez · 01-04-2007, 02:18 AM

Alright, I'm SOLD! I'll sign up the GB. :D

punch · 01-04-2007, 07:06 PM

[QUOTE=ChinoCharles;45729]With the Yaris, they're all a must upgrade... haha.

A lightened crank pulley will do two things for an engine.

[1] It will increase power (both HP and TQ) through the entire powerband
[2] It will increase throttle response, directly decreasing 0-60 times

a lightened pulley will not increase hp!

spkrman · 01-04-2007, 07:40 PM

increase power to the wheels, yea :)

*Chris07LB* · 01-04-2007, 08:21 PM

Nice Charles!

johnnyfive · 01-04-2007, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChinoCharles

Oh, and how about that low end? 3 ft'lbs of torque straight through, and the HP curve just shifted upwards 2-3 HP. All in all, not a bad start to a full exhaust.

looks like it lost torque, and HP almost all of the way through....well, up until 5k'ish rmp...

ChinoCharles · 01-04-2007, 11:18 PM

OK! First of all, thanks to Mike from NST for talking me through how to interpret these sheets. I was way off.

Second of all, I will apologize beforehand for making some false claims about the header results for the past 24 hours or so. Like many of you, I'm learning ... now allow me to explain.

First, results.

STOCK THIRD GEAR PULL
stock.jpg

THIRD GEAR PULL W/ HEADER
notstock.jpg

ALL RESULTS ON ONE GRAPH
combo.jpg

The first time I read the graphs, I immediately assumed the higher curves on the third graph had to be the header. I mean, we wouldn't spend money on this part to lose power, right? WRONG. We did lose power! Sure, by the numbers we didn't. Notice at the very end of the graphs at about 6000 RPM the header curves catch up and surpass the stock. For all intents and purposes, this piece can be advertised as providing an increase in HP and torque... about 2-3 HP and 2-3 ft/lbs respectively. However, that gain at the top end comes at a price, which can easily be seen through the first 5500 RPM.

This is typical of mods like this... specifically intake and exhaust mods. They do provide gains on the top end, but overall the price is often far greater than they payoff. I'm still not convinced this is the case with this header. The numbers seem to sway that way, but there is more to a car than horsepower and torque, and I'll be spending the next few days trying to understand every little nuance associated.

So again, sorry for not being as observant as I should. Like I said before, this has all been a huge learning experience, and it culminated with this information.

Allow me a day or two to contact TI and verify this information once again. I am also going to do some research and have Kevin help me explain why the numbers are a bit inflated.

Thanks one last time to Riceboy for hooking up the Group Buy, Twisted Innovations for doing the testing and letting me use their garage like I worked there, Mike at NST for your help in explaining the results, and Megan Racing for bringing us a header.

eco · 01-05-2007, 01:13 AM

Well I got my cat back and header insatlled,I have no dyno,but I do notice an improvment,Im guessing that header needs more room to breath.Now we need some serious effort in a full exhaust system,or a 1 stage or 3 stage high flow cat.

ChinoCharles · 01-05-2007, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eco

Now we need some serious effort in a full exhaust system,or a 1 stage or 3 stage high flow cat.

I'm working on it.

Nutzoids · 01-05-2007, 01:30 AM

ChinoCharles Thanks for the Dyno Lesson... Like you I am learning as much as possible and those will help me greatly!

As far as the apologies... No need man, I know what its like to get excited and to hear something but not understand, and instead of pushing just assume its on the positive end... Everyone here knows you love your car, and you just let the excitement carry you away... At least from my point of view... That is no reason to feel bad or apologize!

vodkalush · 01-05-2007, 02:03 PM

thats it i can never trust another thread or post by ChinoCharles

ChinoCharles · 01-05-2007, 02:17 PM

ROFL! Fuckin' ball busters.

This makes 1337 posts. If you're a nerd, you understand why that is funny.

acrbill · 01-05-2007, 02:40 PM

That sucks man. I just looked at those pics of the stocker and the Megan side by side and I just can't understand how you lost power. Sometimes cars are strange like that.

You have to question the dyno itself though. Its obvious that the numbers are off since the same motor in the Scion makes ~78whp stock.

What is the rev limit on the Yaris? When peak HP comes at the end of the graph you have to wonder how much is hiding above the limiter.

Russelt3hPirate · 01-05-2007, 02:43 PM

new cars aren't as restricted exhaust wise.

congrats on your wise purchase.

gains will always be felt without a dyno, you wallet is positive of that.

ChinoCharles · 01-05-2007, 03:34 PM

acrbill, you'd be surprised how common findings like these are. It isn't hard to make a header that gains power at the top. It is, however, difficult to make a header that gains power at the top without sacrificing low- and mid-range power.

Don't question the dyno, because I've said it before and I'll say it again... the dyno doesn't lie. The reason for the inflated numbers can be explained, and will be shortly. For now, take the numbers as a ratio and apply it to our assumed 78 WHP. For all we know, though, that could also be wrong. I just saw an xB sheet today that had the car closer to 90 HP, which would be more on par with the expected 15% drivetrain loss from the stated 106 HP. If anyone has undisputed numbers proving one way or the other, now would be a wonderful time to share.

Here are a couple good reads on intake/exhaust related parts. The first has to do with a Mustang intake, and the second is all about a P&P job on a stock Celica GTS header that left the owner losing on the low end to gain up top.

http://www.musclemustangfastfords.co...rd_mustang_gt/

http://www.newcelica.org/forums/show...threadid=60156

spkrman · 01-05-2007, 04:16 PM

the yaris doesnt have power steering, take that into account with the power output :)

spkrman · 01-05-2007, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acrbill

What is the rev limit on the Yaris? When peak HP comes at the end of the graph you have to wonder how much is hiding above the limiter.

yea, i saw the graph and wonder the same thing.

I can take it to the limiter and it doesnt feel like its losing anything up there.

acrbill · 01-05-2007, 05:16 PM

I have seen graphs where trq. suffers a little down low but HP gains up high are decent. I have never seen a header take power away across the board.

Is there a splitter in the stock collector? I have seen that on stock headers before. It keeps the gases on each bank separate until it gets into the mid pipe. I guess the larger primaries don't help since they are merging into the same size collector.

With a mid length header and a larger mid pipe I bet there would be significant gains.

01-04-2007, 11:18 PM	#25
ChinoCharles Banned Drives: LB Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: OH Posts: 7,787	OK! First of all, thanks to Mike from NST for talking me through how to interpret these sheets. I was way off. Second of all, I will apologize beforehand for making some false claims about the header results for the past 24 hours or so. Like many of you, I'm learning ... now allow me to explain. First, results. STOCK THIRD GEAR PULL stock.jpg THIRD GEAR PULL W/ HEADER notstock.jpg ALL RESULTS ON ONE GRAPH combo.jpg The first time I read the graphs, I immediately assumed the higher curves on the third graph had to be the header. I mean, we wouldn't spend money on this part to lose power, right? WRONG. We did lose power! Sure, by the numbers we didn't. Notice at the very end of the graphs at about 6000 RPM the header curves catch up and surpass the stock. For all intents and purposes, this piece can be advertised as providing an increase in HP and torque... about 2-3 HP and 2-3 ft/lbs respectively. However, that gain at the top end comes at a price, which can easily be seen through the first 5500 RPM. This is typical of mods like this... specifically intake and exhaust mods. They do provide gains on the top end, but overall the price is often far greater than they payoff. I'm still not convinced this is the case with this header. The numbers seem to sway that way, but there is more to a car than horsepower and torque, and I'll be spending the next few days trying to understand every little nuance associated. So again, sorry for not being as observant as I should. Like I said before, this has all been a huge learning experience, and it culminated with this information. Allow me a day or two to contact TI and verify this information once again. I am also going to do some research and have Kevin help me explain why the numbers are a bit inflated. Thanks one last time to Riceboy for hooking up the Group Buy, Twisted Innovations for doing the testing and letting me use their garage like I worked there, Mike at NST for your help in explaining the results, and Megan Racing for bringing us a header. Last edited by ChinoCharles; 01-05-2007 at 12:11 AM.

01-05-2007, 02:03 PM	#29
vodkalush I drive a yarrrris View User's Garage Drives: 07 Sedan Polar White Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 1,009	thats it i can never trust another thread or post by ChinoCharles __________________ Docotrs say all the drikning has mesesd up my seplilng and radieng Get your YarisWorld.com stickers here!!! The Official Toyota Thailand Accessories Order Thread will work for parts

01-05-2007, 02:40 PM	#31
acrbill Drives: Polar White Hatch Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: chicago Posts: 407	That sucks man. I just looked at those pics of the stocker and the Megan side by side and I just can't understand how you lost power. Sometimes cars are strange like that. You have to question the dyno itself though. Its obvious that the numbers are off since the same motor in the Scion makes ~78whp stock. What is the rev limit on the Yaris? When peak HP comes at the end of the graph you have to wonder how much is hiding above the limiter. __________________ ChinoCharles Intake supporter.

01-05-2007, 05:16 PM	#36
acrbill Drives: Polar White Hatch Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: chicago Posts: 407	I have seen graphs where trq. suffers a little down low but HP gains up high are decent. I have never seen a header take power away across the board. Is there a splitter in the stock collector? I have seen that on stock headers before. It keeps the gases on each bank separate until it gets into the mid pipe. I guess the larger primaries don't help since they are merging into the same size collector. With a mid length header and a larger mid pipe I bet there would be significant gains. __________________ ChinoCharles Intake supporter.

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01-04-2007, 01:28 AM	#19
ChinoCharles Banned Drives: LB Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: OH Posts: 7,787	With the Yaris, they're all a must upgrade... haha. A lightened crank pulley will do two things for an engine. [1] It will increase power (both HP and TQ) through the entire powerband [2] It will increase throttle response, directly decreasing 0-60 times Most mods increase HP or torque in one specific area of the powerband. That header specifically increased HP by 3 at the high end and torque by 3 at the low end. I will have the dyno results online very soon so you can see this. A crank pulley will increase HP and torque throughout. If you gain 8 HP at 1000 RPM, it will be there at 5500. Same with torque. It is the same theory behind a lightweight rim. Since there is less mass to rotate, your car will be faster as you shave more pounds off of your wheel weight. Now, think about a pulley directly connected to your crankshaft that weighs 60% less. That 60% weight savings transfers into power gained, but in all reality the power was always there... you're just giving your engine the means to perform to its full potential. You can view various dyno sheets in the group buy thread. The header is wonderful (trust me, I have it!) but I'm betting the pulley will be a better bang for the buck.

01-04-2007, 02:18 AM	#20
nevermorez Drives: 2006 Yaris RS Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Vancouver Posts: 61	Alright, I'm SOLD! I'll sign up the GB. :D

01-04-2007, 07:06 PM	#21
punch Drives: 2007 Yaris Sedan "D" package Join Date: May 2006 Location: Barrie, ontario Posts: 852	[QUOTE=ChinoCharles;45729]With the Yaris, they're all a must upgrade... haha. A lightened crank pulley will do two things for an engine. [1] It will increase power (both HP and TQ) through the entire powerband [2] It will increase throttle response, directly decreasing 0-60 times a lightened pulley will not increase hp!

01-04-2007, 07:40 PM	#22
spkrman Banned View User's Garage Drives: 1 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: 2 Posts: 1,476	increase power to the wheels, yea :)

01-04-2007, 08:21 PM	#23
Chris07LB Super Moderator View User's Garage Drives: Yaris Liftback Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New Jersey Posts: 3,174	Nice Charles!

01-05-2007, 01:13 AM	#26
eco Drives: 2007 Black Yaris sedan Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Atlanta Posts: 884	Well I got my cat back and header insatlled,I have no dyno,but I do notice an improvment,Im guessing that header needs more room to breath.Now we need some serious effort in a full exhaust system,or a 1 stage or 3 stage high flow cat.

01-05-2007, 01:30 AM	#28
Nutzoids View User's Garage Drives: 07 Yaris Liftback Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 938	ChinoCharles Thanks for the Dyno Lesson... Like you I am learning as much as possible and those will help me greatly! As far as the apologies... No need man, I know what its like to get excited and to hear something but not understand, and instead of pushing just assume its on the positive end... Everyone here knows you love your car, and you just let the excitement carry you away... At least from my point of view... That is no reason to feel bad or apologize!

01-05-2007, 02:17 PM	#30
ChinoCharles Banned Drives: LB Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: OH Posts: 7,787	ROFL! Fuckin' ball busters. This makes 1337 posts. If you're a nerd, you understand why that is funny.

01-05-2007, 02:43 PM	#32
Russelt3hPirate l33t3st Asshole Drives: MY07 Yaris Liftback Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Epcot Posts: 588	new cars aren't as restricted exhaust wise. congrats on your wise purchase. gains will always be felt without a dyno, you wallet is positive of that.

01-05-2007, 03:34 PM	#33
ChinoCharles Banned Drives: LB Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: OH Posts: 7,787	acrbill, you'd be surprised how common findings like these are. It isn't hard to make a header that gains power at the top. It is, however, difficult to make a header that gains power at the top without sacrificing low- and mid-range power. Don't question the dyno, because I've said it before and I'll say it again... the dyno doesn't lie. The reason for the inflated numbers can be explained, and will be shortly. For now, take the numbers as a ratio and apply it to our assumed 78 WHP. For all we know, though, that could also be wrong. I just saw an xB sheet today that had the car closer to 90 HP, which would be more on par with the expected 15% drivetrain loss from the stated 106 HP. If anyone has undisputed numbers proving one way or the other, now would be a wonderful time to share. Here are a couple good reads on intake/exhaust related parts. The first has to do with a Mustang intake, and the second is all about a P&P job on a stock Celica GTS header that left the owner losing on the low end to gain up top. http://www.musclemustangfastfords.co...rd_mustang_gt/ http://www.newcelica.org/forums/show...threadid=60156

01-05-2007, 04:16 PM	#34
spkrman Banned View User's Garage Drives: 1 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: 2 Posts: 1,476	the yaris doesnt have power steering, take that into account with the power output :)