ver 2.0 Ashkenazim and intelligence

[GeneW]

There are many genetic diseases that protect a "carrier" but will sicken or destroy someone who has a pair of the mutated genes.

The best known example is the Sickle Cell trait. Carriers of the sickle cell trait have a demonstrated resistance to malaria. Malaria is a horrible disease which still kills millions each year.

Another genetic disease is Cystic Fibrosis. Carriers of CF have an immunity to Cholera, a disease which was known as the "black plague" in some parts of Europe because the dehydration turned the victim's skin black.

A mutation on the gene which architects the CD4 receptor conveys total immunity to the AIDS virus.


I think it's very very interesting that there may be a mutation that conveys higher types of intelligence and that it emerged in response to bigoted social policies that forbade Jews from owning land.

Before some of you run off crying to the moderator you might want to read over the following facts....

Jews who do not have ancestry from Europe, who are not "ashkenazim", do not perform any better on standard IQ tests than their gentile neighbors.

Jews who lived in Europe during the Medieval period were shut out of making a living. They could not own land. So rather than starve they entered an occupation that allowed them to flourish. Those who earned a better living could have more children. This effect is identical to the effects of other genetic diseases whose carriers benefit and pass on their mutation to descendants.

I certainly do not think that Jews "deserve" Tay Sachs or the other horrible diseases that children who recieve the mutation from both parents acquire.

As far as the "greedy rich Jews" stereotype - I guess unlike many of you I've lived alongside of Jews for most of my life. I work for a Jewish man. I know the limits of the prejudice and I know the realities.

Some of you, apparently, are hypersensitive to this topic. Why I do not know.

Ain't about "selective breeding" or Eugenics, but about how people are shaped by their environments.

To me the most interesting topic of discussion is what other traits are out there which are not known but which could benefit people? Humans are evolving at a very rapid rate and there are more of us than at any other time in history.

What else is "out there" in the wild, unknown and possibly beneficial?


Caution Adobe!!!!!


Link

Gene

PS

Fixed the link

[GeneW]

One of the important aspects of Science is being able to deal with reality, with facts and with data.

I'm disappointed at the response of the first topic, and I suppose I should have couched what I said more carefully. I've spent so much time with Jews over the years, and know what absolute rubbish the "stereotypes" are that I don't take any of them at all seriously. So I have no sensitivity towards the topic.

To me personally the history of the Ashkenazim is one of inspiration, of a people who refused to die and who improvised, adapted and overcame. So to read that there was actually a selection process at work, is both delightful and inspirational. G-d does work in mysterious ways!


Gene

[YAR1S]

... seriously.... how can you expect these types of topics to be welcomed in a forum such as this one? Most if not all of us are here solely for cars... not this sort of stuff.

I keep thinking your posts are spam....

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by YAR1S

... seriously.... how can you expect these types of topics to be welcomed in a forum such as this one? Most if not all of us are here solely for cars... not this sort of stuff.

I keep thinking your posts are spam....

This is the Off-Topic forum.

Spam in the usual sense of the word are posts meant to advertise something. Am I advertising anything?

Gene

[YAR1S]

no, this is completely random and I dont see why you must consistantly post things like this everyday.

I vote you just have your own thread to rant... so theres not so many random threads about diseases and politics posted.

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by YAR1S

no, this is completely random and I dont see why you must consistantly post things like this everyday.

I vote you just have your own thread to rant... so theres not so many random threads about diseases and politics posted.

Yeah, you're right..... I ought to limit myself to topics that don't make you feel inadequate.

IF I were posting porn, or Stormfront rubbish, or Ogrish photos it'd be one thing.

Discussing how humans adapt to adversity is fascinating and ought to fascinate every one.

There is an "ignore list" here. Please, use it, by all means. I certainly do not want to hear your sentiments or your appeals to mediocrity.

Gene

[eTiMaGo]

Gene, there's no point in reasoning with you

Yes, this is an off-topic section, and by definition, "anything goes"... But, well, be mindful of your audience.. Like I mentioned in your earlier thread, I find this to be very interesting stuff, though it'll be over most peoples' heads.

Plus there's always the sensitive subject of discussing a race of people in this way, Even though it is scientifically proven, yes, but then where do you draw the line with the kind of "science" Hitler was practicing with Jews?

I guess what I am saying, really, is that I just don't understand, what is your rationale for posting this here? What do you expect out of a thread like this? Sure there are a god amount of smart people here who can debate this with you, but in the end it's just gonna stir up animosity and a bad atmosphere, like your political rambling threads did.

[YAR1S]

all these big words... lol

no, I'm not going to ignore you, you do have some good things to say about yaris.... I guess I just dont see the point of these threads like etigmago said.

[CompanyXPaladin]

I think its interesting. Its definitely fascinating that an entire race of people can adapt like that, and it solidifies Friedrich Nietzsche's "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger." But it should hardly be surprising - genetic selection and adaptation is the basis for modern society.

That said - whats the point of your post? Are you just trying to spread general knowledge? You probably would (as said) have better luck and reception on a non-car forum. Are you trying to start a discussion based on the statement "Jews are smarter, but more susceptible to certain diseases through natural selection based on their conditions in Europe?" Are you advocating testing entire races of humans and cross-referencing ancestral professions and environments (an impossible task)?

Your link is broken.

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by CompanyXPaladin

I think its interesting. Its definitely fascinating that an entire race of people can adapt like that, and it solidifies Friedrich Nietzsche's "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger." But it should hardly be surprising - genetic selection and adaptation is the basis for modern society.

That said - whats the point of your post? Are you just trying to spread general knowledge? You probably would (as said) have better luck and reception on a non-car forum. Are you trying to start a discussion based on the statement "Jews are smarter, but more susceptible to certain diseases through natural selection based on their conditions in Europe?" Are you advocating testing entire races of humans and cross-referencing ancestral professions and environments (an impossible task)?

Your link is broken.

....that people adapt to their circumstances. Sometimes in surprising ways, and that intelligence is in part genetic. If intelligence is genetic could it be raised medically? Perhaps people with mental handicaps could be helped.

I've learned one thing from the reactions to this post - there is a lot of "baggage" out there regarding genetics and human potential.

Gene

[CompanyXPaladin]

Originally Posted by GeneW

....that people adapt to their circumstances.

I thought that was reasonably well known? Many animals have different species that adapt to environmental variables. Why would humans be any different?

... and that intelligence is in part genetic.

I guess that depends on what you define as 'intelligence.' If you define it as the brain's speed or power, like a computer processor, I would say it's entirely genetic. If you define it as the person's knowledge and ability to learn, I would say that's largely environmental. For example, IMO, many of today's (Southern Californian, anyway. I haven't observed the rest of the world.) youth are quite intelligent, they just aren't willing to learn, and therefore appear stupid.

If intelligence is genetic could it be raised medically?

I thought that was one of the things being researched (by people smarter than me ) in genetic fields? Cracking the genetic code, deciphering DNA, and unlocking the ability to cure cancer and AIDS, and choose the perfect baby?

Or are you referring to breeding through parental selection, like livestock? Breeding the "Pure-bred" child. If you are, that's why there's baggage attached. Inherently, if you perform that kind of experiment, you're starting a class war. People don't like the idea that they wouldn't be selected to breed the perfect human, that there's someone better than they are. They don't like the idea of having pure-bred people who are smarter, more illness resistant, and naturally more gifted than they are.

[SIPNGAS]

Only by exploring topics other than what we already know, do we learn to step outside of ourselves and outside of the media-fed box. I for one may not always agree with Gene, but he always brings up topics that allow me to THINK.

As for the quick evolution of humans and the way a body can be afflicted with one ailment but immune to something else (and entire groups who share the affliction show the same traits) really had potential...potential for cures. Maybe now that stem-cell research is allowed, these things will be easier to uncover.

[supmet]

I see both points, but I tend to think intelligence is 90% nurture, 10% nature.

I was watching this thing on national geographic or discovery, about scientists that basically adopted crack babies. They developed a battery of learning games, and spent hours each day playing with them. Most of the children born crack babies, went on to get degrees from universities, and outscore their classmates throughout their lives.

True, there are slight to moderate genetic predispositions to intelligence, just as there are to athleticism, but these are far outweighed by environmental influences - especially during the first 5 years.

[LtNoogie]

I have not read most of Gene's posts only because I choose not to use a car forum as my venue for political discourse. Having said that, I see his post as a thoughtful exploration of a population's ability to adapt and the unplanned consequences of that adaptation.