Religious Question/Opinion

[Kaotic Lazagna]

*Disclaimer, please do NOT bash on any other religions. Believe what you believe in, and please do NOT impose your beliefs on others in this thread. I made this thread to ask for you guys' opinions. I would like this thread to remain open, so if you do not have anything "good" to say, please just don't post.*

Okay, so my gf has recently switched to Seventh Day Adventist (SDA) from Catholicism. Well, actually, it's her, her twin sister (also one of my best friends), and their eldest sister. Lately, my gf and I have been getting into debates over religion. For those who do not know SDA is a religion that strictly follows everything, and I mean EVERYTHING that the Bible says. Here's the thing, I feel that they are imposing their beliefs on me and my other friend (my gf's sis' bf who is Buddhist). I really don't know what religion I fall under, but I associate myself with Catholics.

Here's the thing, my gf (and the rest of them), are saying that the only way to Heaven is to follow everything the Bible says; i.e. do not eat pork, do not do anything but stay home and read the Bible during Sabbeth (Friday through Saturday), etc. Well, not exactly that, it's more of showing that you love Jesus/God, and to do so, you follow the Bible, primarily the 10 Commandments. However, I have different beliefs on how to get into Heaven or Hell. I find it extremely hard to believe that a person who is genuinely good, but does not necessarily follow all of the Commandments/the Bible will not get into Heaven; yet, let's take a "bad" person (what ever that may be) that follows the Commandments/Bible; does that mean that that person has a better chance of getting into Heaven than the genuinely good person?

I found it highly irritating when my gf said that "Catholicism is the anti-Christ." We all have different beliefs, and there are people who do not even believe in a heaven and hell. Who is to say that those who do not follow/believe in SDA will go to hell? I mean, with other religions, doesn't that mean that SDA will go to their version of hell?

To me, religion shouldn't put people in a place where they live everyday of their life in fear and limitations. Why would God/High-Being want His/Her people to live their life like that?

I know my thoughts were all over the place, but what is your opinion/thoughts?

[coheed]

If you couldnt tell by my sig Im buddhist, but that is beside the point. I think if there truly is a heaven, that the higher power will accept you as long as you make a genuine effort to devote to a religion.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Originally Posted by coheed

If you couldnt tell by my sig Im buddhist, but that is beside the point. I think if there truly is a heaven, that the higher power will accept you as long as you make a genuine effort to devote to a religion.

Exactly.

[jambo101]

When religious/rightious people start telling me that their god is the way and mine isnt they lose me right there as there is only one god and he isnt playing religious favorites, he's within all of us no matter what religion we ascribe or not ascribe to.ya just gotta stop and listen once in a while,he's there.SDA are a fundamentalist group and they will slowly but surely destroy your relationship with your gf,unless of course you join them.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Originally Posted by jambo101

When religious/rightious people start telling me that their god is the way and mine isnt they lose me right there as there is only one god and he isnt playing religious favorites, he's within all of us no matter what religion we ascribe or not ascribe to.SDA are a fundamentalist group and they will slowly but surely destroy your relationship with your gf,unless of course you join them.

I'm totally sorry, but I will not change my beliefs for anyone. If that's the case, why can't they "join" me, I mean, they did believe in it prior to changing to SDA.

But I totally feel you on this. If God/High Power created humans, He/She would love them all the same, right? Doesn't matter what religion they are. Right?

[tomato]

Originally Posted by Kaotic Lazagna

I'm totally sorry, but I will not change my beliefs for anyone. If that's the case, why can't they "join" me, I mean, they did believe in it prior to changing to SDA.

Against my better judgment, I'll jump in - even though I usually avoid discussions about religion like the plague - only because you sound so sincere in wanting input from others.

I might offend but here goes. In my opinion, your GF is a fundamentalist and that is NOT a good thing.

In my family alone, we have 3 religions, well, 4 if you include the fact that I don't belong to any particular organized religion. I have a big problem with organized religions myself. It would take too long to explain and I don't want to bore everybody. Let's just say I'm not very religious, but I still try to live by certain Christian principles, if that makes sense.

Still, I cannot even begin to count how many times people approach me to try to cram their own religious beliefs down my throat and tell me how to live my life.

My religion is pretty simple: I practice charity towards others whenever possible and generally try to be a good person, you know, and abide by the main principles "thou shall not steal, etc." all that good stuff. I DON'T turn the other cheek, though

But to get back to your initial post. I believe that it is easier to tolerate differences of opinion in politics but when it comes to religion, it is far more difficult because people are dead set on their beliefs in an almost visceral manner and they have zero tolerance for others people's view point.

So much so, that in some cases, religion drives people to do crazy things. People have been killing each others for years, since the very beginning, over differences of opinion on religion. More recently, we have lost 2 buildings in NY, due to some religious extremism turned violent as well.

So I worry for you and your relationship with your GF, long term, when you say that she is trying to get you to follow her beliefs. I don't know the situation, of course, but if I were you, I would rethink having a serious relationship with someone who is so different at the core. Hopefully I'm wrong, but I think eventually, that will create a wall between you if it isn't already there.

My 2 c, though, nothing more.

Peace

[YarisSedan]

All i know that if you believe that Jesus died on the cross for your sins that you are going to heaven. And there is a new testament and old testament. Some relegions still try to follow the old testament. And some religions base off the christianity bible but add or subtract some chapters. I belive really that good works and good people will be blessed but as long as you belive the good word then you will have no problem getting into heaven. The idea of following old testiment teachings and trying to live your life by a structure or code isnt the way God wanted you to run your life. As long as what you do honors him thats all he really wants.

IE helping someone in need without expecting anything in return. I am not really as religiouse as i used to be. And i do not know too much about seventh day adventisit. But i know a lot of thier teachings are not based on faith in Jesus alone is enough.

I find that the type of people who follow this religion are the same type of people that practice rituals. IE they always fold thier clothes in a particular order in a particular type of seprate drawers and hang thier clothes by type and by color. They always follow the same pattern almost obssively. Thinking that they have control of thier own lives and take comfort in it.

But things will never go as planned and you can never control your own life things happen and no one can live the perfect life no matter how hard they try to live it.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Originally Posted by YarisSedan

All i know that if you believe that Jesus died on the cross for your sins that you are going to heaven. And there is a new testament and old testament. Some relegions still try to follow the old testament. And some religions base off the christianity bible but add or subtract some chapters. I belive really that good works and good people will be blessed but as long as you belive the good word then you will have no problem getting into heaven. The idea of following old testiment teachings and trying to live your life by a structure or code isnt the way God wanted you to run your life. As long as what you do honors him thats all he really wants.

IE helping someone in need without expecting anything in return. I am not really as religiouse as i used to be. And i do not know too much about seventh day adventisit. But i know a lot of thier teachings are not based on faith in Jesus alone is enough.

I find that the type of people who follow this religion are the same type of people that practice rituals. IE they always fold thier clothes in a particular order in a particular type of seprate drawers and hang thier clothes by type and by color. They always follow the same pattern almost obssively. Thinking that they have control of thier own lives and take comfort in it.

But things will never go as planned and you can never control your own life things happen and no one can live the perfect life no matter how hard they try to live it.

Totally agree with the bolded statements. Seriously, I believe that if you're honestly, genuinely a good person, then your High Power has a spot for you in what ever place you believe in.

Even though I'm broke, I'll still donate money to charities. I don't expect anything in return, and a lot of the times, I'll deny putting my name on those "sponsor" paper thingies.

No ones perfect, and I highly doubt there's anyone out there that follows the Bible 100%, so does that mean they cannot get into Heaven? I don't think so, if they were good, then they have a spot.

[YarisSedan]

Oh yeah one last thing i think 2 things really should be left alone on these forums are religion and politics only because no one can discuss them without starting a very heated argument or fights without someone being extremely offended or someone getting hurt. I have a feeling this thread will be locked very soon as more and more responses come in.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

If those two topics can be discussed civilly, I don't see why it would be closed.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Pretty good replies so far. Keep it up.

[DefStarYaris]

I'm an atheist, but a very tolerant one. If someone else can find some kind of peace and happiness by following a religion then that's great. I hate when people try to tell me I'm wrong, or try to convert me. I don't go around trying to convince people to believe what I believe. I think religion should be personal, not something you should try to spread to as many people as you can.

[Ryu]

As far as religion goes, all the religion is the same to me. It is like looking at the moon from West and East, the name of the god might be different, the moon might looks different, but they are all correct about their belief.

The big religion was never created by the creator himselve, but the disciple gather everything he said and put them into a religion. All was created in different time and different area and their teaching is based on the people in those area. So some is more emphasis on love , and some is more emphasis on equality, but all is the same.

Just look at all the black, white, asian people, we all have red blood inside.
Also look at all the animal on earth, except snake and insect, they all have the same place of eyes, nose, mouth, ears as us. Even the quantity of them is exactly the same.

I am not trying to talk like religious, but even as big as elephant he has the same place and quantiy of those as us too, all of them couldn't be just conincidence.

No religion is better than the other, but the most importantly is to correct our own mind rather than just belief. I believe as long as you contribute to your belief and on the right direction, you can go back to Heaven.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Originally Posted by Ryu

As far as religion goes, all the religion is the same to me. It is like looking at the moon from West and East, the name of the god might be different, the moon might looks different, but they are all correct about their belief.

The big religion was never created by the creator himselve, but the disciple gather everything he said and put them into a religion. All was created in different time and different area and their teaching is based on the people in those area. So some is more emphasis on love , and some is more emphasis on equality, but all is the same.

Just look at all the black, white, asian people, we all have red blood inside.
Also look at all the animal on earth, except snake and insect, they all have the same place of eyes, nose, mouth, ears as us. Even the quantity of them is exactly the same.

I am not trying to talk like religious, but even as big as elephant he has the same place and quantiy of those as us too, all of them couldn't be just conincidence.

No religion is better than the other, but the most importantly is to correct our own mind rather than just belief. I believe as long as you contribute to your belief and on the right direction, you can go back to Heaven.

Really tho. I respect every religion out there as long as they do not come to me and try to stuff their beliefs down my throat. I mean, you do what you "gotta" do in your religion, right? Just be respectful of others'.

[TinyGiant]

the SDA are very closely related to mormons and Jehovah's whitness. Another group that started with the prediction of when Christ would return (which the bible says no one will know the hour.) They also hold on to things in the bible (like the not eating pork) that later in the scriptures God said we could eat.

The jehovah's i spent all of last summer researching and debating with on my front porch. They came knocking one spring day and gave me some literature. I read it and took tons of notes on the literature and asked them to explain some blatantly skewed "truths" they had in the stuff they gave me.

They believe that Jesus is Michael the Arc angel .. not the son of God . where the bible clear says he is the son of God. they also change scripture around in their own bible .. very slight and subtle changes that make a world of difference.

they have all these things like they believe the gates of heaven closed in 1935..but cant show in the scriptures where it says that was going to happen..

they also believe that Jesus returned silently (after being wrong so many times about his return) they decided to say that he returned silently and is now in their headquaters in Brooklyn NY. And to believe everythin the watchtower says because is direct communication with Jesus .. which the bible clearly says when Jesus Returns every knee will bow and every ear will hear..

I had fun all summer with them. (in a good way) I was never impolite or anything. I wanted to keep them coming so we could discuss thier beliefs and have them explain how they got there.

The first time they came it was an older woman with another gentleman. I let them come three times before I started asking questions.. Give them a chance to see that i wasnt going to chase them off my porch. By the end of it they had elders and leaders of their church coming to my door trying to answer my questions.. The elder of their church couldnt answer any of my questions.. i stumped them pretty good... they stopped showing up. I think i'm probably on their do not visit list.. so that new converts on thier door to door stuff wont start to question why they believe what they believe.. lol

The JW believe in the Teachings of one MAN.. following the exact teachings of any man will certainly be problematic.. but combined with the demand for blind belief and not being able to question or study your beliefs is rediculous.

God gave us minds so we could use them. We are to keep our noses in the scripture and study them. God wants us to be able to spot deceit at the drop of a hat. If someone.. even my own pastor of my church says something that i think is off.. i'll do some research on it and make sure its on the level.. if its not i'll chat with him about it and see what i'm missing or maybe he'l see what he's missing.


what defstar said is somewhat true. the religion is personal not something you should spread.. the personal part. (i'd think you'd be an agnostic rather than an athiest.. you dont necessarily belive there isnt a god or pont to religion.. you just dont believe in anything)

Christianity grabbed ahold of a modernist perspective. That Christians are supposed to make everyone believe and witness to everyone till their blue in the face and everyone starts avoiding them like amway salesmen.. lol this is not the case. Our jobs as christians is to love one another, and be respectful to others and be the best example of Christ's love and compassion that we can be. God is the one that does the moving of ones heart. If he uses me to point someone in his direction, i'll take hold of it. But I personally try not to cram my beliefs down anyones throat... thats not what its about.
Jesus said the Greatest comandment is love... One thing that I've always said in regards to religions that make huge claims on doing good works or like the SDA who say you have to follow everything to the letter (even if its not still a current biblical law) to go to heaven.. Look at the theif that was on the cross next to Christ.. He told Christ that he believed that he was the son of God and Jesus said today you will be in heaven. He didnt say.. oh well dir .. do 10 hail mary's or sir have you been baptized? Did you ever attend church on a sunday? lol ... Jesus granted him entrance to heaven on his beliefe and Faith that Jesus Christ is God. The one point that Jesus was trying to make.. some dirty theif on a cross understood.

I try to live in a respectful and loving way toward others and help out as much as i can.. if people ask me whats different (which i do get that question) I let them know .. but its not my job to cram it down anyones throat. But if you come to me with a "truth" you better be able to defend it and prove how you came to that truth.. because i love to debate :) I wish the JW would still come to the door.. and maybe they will this summer. I had fun talking with them..it was funny the few times that they started getting frustrated and looking to the elder they brought and saying "is this really what the scripture is saying" and the elder also being stumped saying "we'll have to look at this later" then avoiding that question for the rest of the summer .. lol its sad they go door to door making claims that christians are apostate and trying to use the bible to prove thier points when even their own interlinear bible shows the flaws in the text they teach (interlinear is a bible that has the original greek translated word for word and then the translation of the bible you are reading.. its very easy to find issues or changes in the point when you can check it to the actual greek.
anywho.. lol i could chat on this all day ..

do some research on the SDA and DO NOT BE AFRIAD to ask questions. Its perfectly fine to have questions. Also check the scriptures and make sure that they are on the level. Never follow anything or anyone without testing it and making sure its fact. any group that requires you to believe what they say with out question and denys you the ability to research it is probably a cult of sorts. The JW arent allowed to have the internet or read any literature not approved by the church and elders.. so that they wont have reason to question... they told me to have an open mind and read their literature .. but when i did the same to them they said they couldnt take it... so i told them I also couldn't take their literature until they gave me the same respect and courtesy to take mine and research my points.

just be careful :)

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Tiny, I enjoyed your first post tremendously. I did not know about that about the JW, that they do not believe that Jesus is the son of God. That may be something I'll talk to my gf about since her mom is a JW.

I think people can "spread" their religion, but by this, I mean educate others. In a way, this is what all of you are doing. You guys are teaching me about what you guys believe. Totally fine with me, and I enjoy learning about other religions. You guys are not kicking me down, and pouring oil, errrr, your beliefs down my mouth (sorry, I just watch TFATF again ). Please continue to educate.

And I totally agree with your last sentence. I respect that my gf and them are SDA's, and I don't really have a problem with it, other than the fact that I don't feel that they are respecting me or other people who are not SDA. I mean, come on, they believe that Catholicism is the anti-Christ.

On that note, the Bible says to not be judgmental, right? Then isn't what they're doing, calling Catholicism the "anti-Christ" being judgmental?

Thank you very much Tiny, I appreciate you posting.

[detroiter]

To keep it as short and as simple has possible, this is what Steven Segal said about religion...and it really does make sense.


"We all trying to get to the same place, just from a different road"




I would say personally, that I am a hybrid religious person. I believe in many Catholic ideals and teachings such as afterlife, etc...but I also believe in Buddhist teachings from the Lotus Sutra. I never once pushed my beliefs on anyone but I'll share them with someone if they are interested in hearing them. I try to promote living a good life and enjoying it, why live a life of torment and unhappiness? There obviously is no such thing as a life without pain or a life of total comfort, but why not live life to the max and enjoy it each day? I used to go to these Buddhist meetings from a branch called the SGI or Sokka Gakkai. Pretty much a Buddhist branch that started in Japan centuries ago and taught from the Lotus Sutra, pretty much what they consider the O.G Shakyamuni's highest teachings.

It's kind of like a dinner buffet. You can take some stuff and leave the stuff you don't want. Yeah I don't agree with 100% of what they teach but the parts like helping others in need, you reap what you sow, etc...there's no harm in taking that knowledge with you. Things like that, everyone can benefit from regardless of religion or non-religion. So I'd say I'm Catholic at heart but with an open mind to what else is around me. My eyes are open and my mind isn't closed. I've always figured too is that why should I fear Jesus and God like so many Christians try to imply is the only way to view them? If they are so loving, which I believe, then you should treat them as best friends. You wouldn't have a best friend that's in your life daily, that your scared of and live in fear of all the time, would you?

Overall, I think everyone should be able to think what they like. I'm sorry that your going through what you are. I don't think that it's really fair to you to be pushed on like that. That's kind of one reason I don't really associate much with anyone from church or things like that because I feel like they are watching me all the time if we are hanging out, judging me on what I do. I want to be able to be myself and have fun without worrying about my every step being watched incase I do something "non Christianlike".

Just be yourself and believe what you believe man...

[TinyGiant]

Originally Posted by detroiter

To keep it as short and as simple has possible, this is what Steven Segal said about religion...and it really does make sense.


"We all trying to get to the same place, just from a different road"

of course he would say that.. hes a buddhist