CBS didn't stop Andy Rooney

[yaris-me]

It's gone. My apologies.

[cali yaris]

whether or not you agree or disagree with the piece, you should at least check to if it's TRUE or not. Which you didn't. And it's not:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/bigcars.asp

[zachryboles]

^+1 OWND

[why?]

i mean seriously, andy rooney is on cbs, do you really think he wouldn't be a died in the wool communist?

[Kal-El]

I was becoming a fan of Rooney while reading the transcript but when I found out that he didn't say those things (and emphatically denies the views), I lost all respect for him (although he is welcome to his Marxist liberal nonsense).

And may I ask where the racism is?? The transcript emphasizes equality and not labeling and grouping as liberals love to do.

[Altitude]

Originally Posted by Kal-El

The transcript emphasizes equality and not labeling and grouping as liberals love to do.

Do you see the inherent contradiction within that statement?

[Kal-El]

Originally Posted by Altitude

Do you see the inherent contradiction within that statement?

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to bring that up.

Yes, "liberal" is a label but what I of course am referring to is the practice within our society to group races/ethnicities and label them with "PC" terms like "African-American" which is often inaccurate anyway. And then those groups get special programs and funding just because. To me, that is calling out some perception of inequality where none exists. We are all created equal however different. Sorry to say, but it's the Democratic party that focuses on these groups and operates based on the numbers and counts on people's belief that a liberal government is going to help them. Democrats make minorities believe that they are their party and that they will take care of them. Take a look at inner cities where the Dems normally have power - is that prosperity?

[eTiMaGo]

I think it's also a case of making up for the inequality they've been subjected to years before (slavery, anyone?).

[why?]

Originally Posted by eTiMaGo

I think it's also a case of making up for the inequality they've been subjected to years before (slavery, anyone?).

i've never owned a slave, nor has anyone i've ever been related to. Why should I be forced to pay for something that happened centuries before I was born?

Not to mention these programs do anything but help the people the are supposedly for. What they really do is let them know it is ok to fail and worse, it gives them a ready made reason for failure.

Everyone is born in the USA with an equal chance to do well. After that it is up to each individual.

All you need to do is look at some of the most famous celebrities and then look at where they came from, and then you'll realize anyone can do anything if they put the effort in.

What we need to do? How about listen to MLK and start living that colorblind society he dreamed about. That is a great first step that still hasn't even come close to happening.

[RedRide]

Originally Posted by why?

i've never owned a slave, nor has anyone i've ever been related to. Why should I be forced to pay for something that happened centuries before I was born?

Not to mention these programs do anything but help the people the are supposedly for. What they really do is let them know it is ok to fail and worse, it gives them a ready made reason for failure.

Everyone is born in the USA with an equal chance to do well. After that it is up to each individual.

All you need to do is look at some of the most famous celebrities and then look at where they came from, and then you'll realize anyone can do anything if they put the effort in.

What we need to do? How about listen to MLK and start living that colorblind society he dreamed about. That is a great first step that still hasn't even come close to happening.

That is a simplistic, idyllic view of our society.

First off, there are never enough jobs to go around in the best of times.
Given the fact that the sys/ government has allowed (and encouraged with tax incentives) millions of jobs to shipped elswhere to line the pockets of the rich at the expense of the working class, I charge that the sys/government is at least partly responsible for the jobless.

Eveyone can't be on top and our society can only function with the majority on the bottom of the economic scale.
Shure there are some who will take advantage of anything but, the vast majority who apply for it really need some sort public assistance.

Now we have a president who is a champion of the working class, a class that has been raped for far too long, is the very backbone of any society and he is called everthing from the "anti Christ to Hittler etc

This "I got mine so, screw you " attitude in not only unChristian but, it can detrimential to a society as a whole.

BTW, I am 62 yrs old an have worked steady since I was 13 yrs old not only beacuse I have a work ethic, but I have also been very lucky that I am still physically fit and was always able to find good paying job with adequate health insurance.
I acknowledge that many are not so lucky.

[Kal-El]

Originally Posted by RedRide

That is a simplistic, idyllic view of our society.

Fist off, there are never enough jobs to go around in the best of times.
Given the fact that the sys/ government has allowed (and encouraed with tax incentives) millions of jobs to shipped elswhere to line the pockets of the rich at the expense of the working class, I charge that the sys/government is at least partly responsible for the jobless.

Eveyone can't be on top and our society can only function with the majority on the bottom of the economic scale.
Shure there are some who will take advantage of anything but, the vast majority who apply for it really need some sort public assistance.

Now we have a president who is a champion of the working class, a class that has been raped for far too long, is the very backbone of any society and he is called everthing from the "anti Christ to Hittler etc

This "I got mine so, screw you " attitude in not only unChristian but, it can detrimential to a society as a whole.

BTW, I am 62 yrs old an have worked steady since I was 13 yrs old not only beacuse I have a work ethic, but I have also been very lucky that I am still physically fit and was always able to find good paying a job.
Some are not so lucky.

How is the President a champion of the working class? Wealth redistribution does NOT help the working class. Guess what, confiscating more from businesses and the wealthy destroys jobs. The jobs the working class count on. And programs/entitlements only reduce drive and motivation to earn your own way. That will lead to an America that will no longer be a leader in prosperity, innovation, charity, freedom and liberty.

Health reform, upcoming Cap and Trade (God help us), and other government programs do NOT help the working class. These programs and huge new taxes will cripple the working class. Health care costs are now going to skyrocket as they have done in my state of Massachusetts (ever since we started this similar model they just passed for the rest of the country). We pay, by far, the most for health care in the country now. And there are now doctor shortages. Thing is, this health care bill is even far, far worse because it institutes huge government controls and penalties. Millions of jobs will be lost over the next decade just from health care "reform" alone. What do people really think happens when "rich" businesses get huge tax hikes? It's usually a combination of job layoffs and passing costs on to consumers.

Yeah, this will be great for the working class.

[RedRide]

Originally Posted by Kal-El

How is the President a champion of the working class? Wealth redistribution does NOT help the working class. Guess what, confiscating more from businesses and the wealthy destroys jobs. The jobs the working class count on. And programs/entitlements only reduce drive and motivation to earn your own way. That will lead to an America that will no longer be a leader in prosperity, innovation, charity, freedom and liberty.

Health reform, upcoming Cap and Trade (God help us), and other government programs do NOT help the working class. These programs and huge new taxes will cripple the working class. Health care costs are now going to skyrocket as they have done in my state of Massachusetts (ever since we started this similar model they just passed for the rest of the country). We pay, by far, the most for health care in the country now. And there are now doctor shortages. Thing is, this health care bill is even far, far worse because it institutes huge government controls and penalties. Millions of jobs will be lost over the next decade just from health care "reform" alone. What do people really think happens when "rich" businesses get huge tax hikes? It's usually a combination of job layoffs and passing costs on to consumers.

Yeah, this will be great for the working class.

Wealth re-distribution you say ? Just WTF do you call the biggest transfer of wealth in history from the 90% working middle class to to the top 10% of the richest under Bush, and his failed trickle down economic policies?

There is no employer who will hire a worker simply becaouse you give them money via tax brakes etc. An employer wiil only hire a new woker if they absolulty need one because buisnes is that good and working existing workers overtime wiil not meet demand, not out of some goodnees of their heart as some suggest they will. Buisnesses boom when the masses (the middle, working class) have disposible income to pay for their products and services.

After WWII, the US made about 90% of the world's products. Now, we only make about 10% of our own products. Anyone who doesn't seee this as a major problem is not paying attention to reality.

As far as health reform, name one "penality that wiil be imposed.
The fact is, there is absolutly no penalty for not getting health insurance as the tax for not getting it is actually voluntary and the law specificaly states that there will be absolutly no penalty for not paying it.

Also, there are some new tax incentives for supplying health insurance and there are many cases where it will actually cost businesses less than it now does.

[cali yaris]

sorry to call you out, yaris-me. I respect that everyone has an opinion and we get to have them.

Part of respecting someone is making an effort not to misread, misquote them or spread information that was made up about them, regardless of their views.

The rest of you guys sure like to complain and bash -- what are you doing to change things?

[RedRide]

Originally Posted by cali yaris

sorry to call you out, yaris-me. I respect that everyone has an opinion and we get to have them.

Part of respecting someone is making an effort not to misread, misquote them or spread information that was made up about them, regardless of their views.

The rest of you guys sure like to complain and bash -- what are you doing to change things?

Well said!
There now seems to be a growing culture of blatent lying in the US, the sole purpiose of which is to boster ones point of view.

If the truth is truly on ones side, lying is not only not nessary, it also simply serves to discredit the lier's point of view.

[RedRide]

This is a copy of the text concerning the "mandate tax" as written in the bill:

2) SPECIAL RULES.—Notwithstanding any other provision of law—
‘‘(A) WAIVER OF CRIMINAL PENALTIES.— In the case of any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty imposed by this section, such taxpayer shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such failure.
‘‘(B) LIMITATIONS ON LIENS AND LEVIES.—The Secretary shall not—
‘‘(i) file notice of lien with respect to any property of a taxpayer by reason of any failure to pay the penalty imposed by this section, or
‘‘(ii) levy on any such property with respect to such failure.


So, in realty there is no real provision to collect the so callked mandate tax.
They can tell you to pay it but it can't be legally collected.

BTW the refom bill was writthen by countlees commities and constantly changed and perverted into the bill that was finally passed and is now law. I admiit that it's not perfect.
However, the staus quo was no longer a viable option and the biil is at least a start.
Refinements etc are shure to follow in the comming years and I hope we as a county can agree on sensible changes.

Let's not loose sight of the fact that a mandate to purchase health insurance was first proposed by some republicans in response to The Clinton adminitration's health care reform discussions.

[Kal-El]

Originally Posted by yaris-me

You guys can have fun, even without the post. Interesting.

What do you mean "without the post"?

Health care issues were just a part of the false transcript we're talking about
and it just happened to become the discussion.

I don't see anything wrong with a friendly discussion about one of life's most critical issues.

Originally Posted by RedRide

This is a copy of the text concerning the "mandate tax" as written in the bill:

2) SPECIAL RULES.—Notwithstanding any other provision of law—
‘‘(A) WAIVER OF CRIMINAL PENALTIES.— In the case of any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty imposed by this section, such taxpayer shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such failure.
‘‘(B) LIMITATIONS ON LIENS AND LEVIES.—The Secretary shall not—
‘‘(i) file notice of lien with respect to any property of a taxpayer by reason of any failure to pay the penalty imposed by this section, or
‘‘(ii) levy on any such property with respect to such failure.


So, in realty there is no real provision to collect the so calked mandate tax.
They can tell you to pay it but it can't be legally collected.

BTW the reform bill was written by countless committees and constantly changed and perverted into the bill that was finally passed and is now law. I admit that it's not perfect.
However, the status quo was no longer a viable option and the biil is at least a start.
Refinements etc are sure to follow in the coming years and I hope we as a county can agree on sensible changes.

Let's not loose sight of the fact that a mandate to purchase health insurance was first proposed by some republicans in response to The Clinton administration's health care reform discussions.

Well, my point is that there is now a huge problem with the whole structure of the bill (of course almost the entire bill is a disgrace but I'll try not to get into all that ). Of course a federal mandate to buy insurance is unconstitutional which is the first flaw. But the realization that no one will be forced to pay into the system anyway is quite remarkable. I continue to believe that nearly half this country believes that government programs happen without having to be paid for. We're are talking about trillions of dollars here and now we find out that we can indeed "game the system". By law, we can't be turned away for any health service. Yet not a single American will be required to pay for coverage. I may be crazy, but it looks like there may be a slight mathematical problem. No?

[yaris-me]

You guys can have fun, even without the post. Interesting.

[RedRide]

Every Constitutional scholar says the health insurance madate is constitutional.
It speaks volumes that the right wing did not bat an eyelash when the republicans (like Mitt Romney and John McCain) proposed the same mandate.

The pupose of a madate is to insure that there is a lage enouigh pool to cover claims and to insure that those who have insurance are not paying for health care for those who choose not to have insurance. Unless someone is very rich, I can't imagine the mindset that would make someone decide that they don't need health insurance other then a selfish "let society pay my medical bills" attitude.

The madate will help insure that that people will pay their own way as far as health insurance is concerned. Republicans liked the idea in the past but, now that Obama agrees, they no longer like it? It sounds like pure politics to me.
It does seem that the madate details is a bit of a compromise and it's more intended to change the mindset of the US poulation.

Like I said the bill is not perfect but is is closer to acceptable than the status quo.