Religious Question/Opinion

[marcus]

awkward topic...but im curious..

who believes earth and the universe is created by god?

who believes everything is created accidentaly by gas and explosions based on scientific discoveries " SCIENCE "

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Originally Posted by TLyttle

Ordained minister? Interesting...

My grandfather was a Presbyterian minister, my father an atheist. Growing up, I heard the two of them go at it every Sunday in granddad's den. Through osmosis rather than actually paying attention, I learned a LOT about religion; once out on my own, I went to churches, synagogues, temples etc, listening some more.

It took awhile, but I eventually came to my own conclusions, and have tried to stay within my own boundaries as far as behaviour is concerned. The fights between Christians and Moslems, pro-life and pro-choice, hawks and doves, and all the other fights based on religion, I just stay out of them because I (by birth) am a bastard and welcome in few churches or temples, I will never be pregnant, have never faced war, and live my life with a social conscience rather than financial priorities.

With all this background, I always look forward to the JWs and SDAs, and I never send them away; I always make sure that they go back to their leader with more questions than answers!

I ask her questions, such as the verses that was given here, and she always has an excuse, like, "that's a tradition."

[Altitude]

Originally Posted by tomato

breakdown? No, no... Not worth it. Hmmm..a few ideas for you:
Either
1) The 2 of you have to agree to disagree, or
2) One of you has to agree to shut up and pretend to agree with the other
3) Be honest and tell her that this could be a deal breaker, or
4) ... you know what to do .... sigh... I'm running out of ideas

You should probably cool off a bit before doing anything rash, though, which is easier said than done, i know. Religion and politics, you know... like I was telling you, we have different religions in the family and also different political beliefs, but when we all go to my father's house, we all pretend and follow his. He's not an idiot, he's figured it out, but if, for example,we all together at the table, we just follow the leader. Makes life easier. I follow that principle pretty much everywhere I go. If people say Grace before dinner, then I'll bend my head too. If they don't, then I don't. At home by myself, I don't.

You know, maybe it's just a phase. I remember once, I was very much into exercising and stuff and I couldn't shut up about it and tried to get everybody else to join a gym. Then it passed.

???

Hope that helps.

Must be pretty hot in Sacramento today, uh? It was 92 in San Francisco yesterday, which is record high for fog city.


Edit:

HOLLY COW, in the time it took me to respond to your post, 15 more posts appeared!!! OK, I was responding to Kaotic's and his nervous breakdown.

Your optimism is admirable but I think the writing is on the wall for this one and kaotic is just really seeking consensus on what is already a foregone conclusion.

Some people can get along despite religious differences, but most cannot. Based upon his description of his girlfriend she doesn't sound like the type to compromise or be tolerant of beliefs other than her own. She's going to end up very lonely unless she finds a fellow believer with whom to share her religious enthusiasm. That is until she decides to convert to something else...

Best to let this one go and find another.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Originally Posted by tomato

breakdown? No, no... Not worth it. Hmmm..a few ideas for you:
Either
1) The 2 of you have to agree to disagree, or
2) One of you has to agree to shut up and pretend to agree with the other
3) Be honest and tell her that this could be a deal breaker, or
4) ... you know what to do .... sigh... I'm running out of ideas

You should probably cool off a bit before doing anything rash, though, which is easier said than done, i know. Religion and politics, you know... like I was telling you, we have different religions in the family and also different political beliefs, but when we all go to my father's house, we all pretend and follow his. He's not an idiot, he's figured it out, but if, for example,we all together at the table, we just follow the leader. Makes life easier. I follow that principle pretty much everywhere I go. If people say Grace before dinner, then I'll bend my head too. If they don't, then I don't. At home by myself, I don't.

You know, maybe it's just a phase. I remember once, I was very much into exercising and stuff and I couldn't shut up about it and tried to get everybody else to join a gym. Then it passed.

???

Hope that helps.

Must be pretty hot in Sacramento today, uh? It was 92 in San Francisco yesterday, which is record high for fog city.


Edit:

HOLLY COW, in the time it took me to respond to your post, 15 more posts appeared!!! OK, I was responding to Kaotic's and his nervous breakdown.

I've tried #1 countless of times. #2, I don't think I can bring myself to do that, to live a lie; and my gf certainly wouldn't. #3 I've hinted about, saying that "religion (by this, I mean trying to impose your religion onto others) can end up tearing families and relationships apart," and her response was it's not the religion, but the people that will tear those things apart. #4, considering it.

OH MAN, it is extremely hot here in Sac. I woke up at 7 in the morning because it was so hot. And my allergies here are much worse than they are in the Bay Area.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Originally Posted by marcus

awkward topic...but im curious..

who believes earth and the universe is created by god?

who believes everything is created accidentaly by gas and explosions based on scientific discoveries " SCIENCE "

Christianity for the first, and like you said, science for the latter.

[eTiMaGo]

Or, maybe this is naive, I'm no psychologist, but you could try to go to the root of the problem.. why did she turn to this so-called religion? You mentioned because she was afraid she would not get to Heaven otherwise. Why is that? Why this fear?

As for her excuse of the "traditions", unless those are explicitly allowed in the bible, then she is deviating from the written word there, and thus won't get to Heaven! I mean if you want to do something all the way, do it all the way, don't make excuses...

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Originally Posted by Altitude

Your optimism is admirable but I think the writing is on the wall for this one and kaotic is just really seeking consensus on what is already a foregone conclusion.

Some people can get along despite religious differences, but most cannot. Based upon his description of his girlfriend she doesn't sound like the type to compromise or be tolerant of beliefs other than her own. She's going to end up very lonely unless she finds a fellow believer with whom to share her religious enthusiasm. That is until she decides to convert to something else...

Best to let this one go and find another.

Yeah, they were looking into various religions before deciding to stick to SDA, so why wouldn't I think they will switch again.

If I let this one go, I'm not going to find another one in a while. Spend some money on my car instead.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Originally Posted by eTiMaGo

Or, maybe this is naive, I'm no psychologist, but you could try to go to the root of the problem.. why did she turn to this so-called religion? You mentioned because she was afraid she would not get to Heaven otherwise. Why is that? Why this fear?

As for her excuse of the "traditions", unless those are explicitly allowed in the bible, then she is deviating from the written word there, and thus won't get to Heaven! I mean if you want to do something all the way, do it all the way, don't make excuses...

It says it's "custom" (for the women to not speak in church and should cover their heads example). So she says that's "tradition".

She's basing her fears on the SDA beliefs. So I don't think I have a way around that. She keeps saying, "You know, the road to heaven is a hard and narrow one."

So I was so frustrated last night that I blurted out, "For you, that's what you believe, but I have a different belief." From here, I asked her, "So, do you think my dad and your grandmother are in hell because I don't think they followed everything in the Bible, but they were good people and believed in God." Her answer was, "I don't know, only God can judge us." I then said, "Exactly, only God can say where we go." She then said, "That's why you try hard to please God, and to do so, you listen to his words, which is the Bible."

[tomato]

Originally Posted by Kaotic Lazagna

If I let this one go, I'm not going to find another one in a while. Spend some money on my car instead.

[tomato]

Originally Posted by Altitude

Your optimism is admirable but I think the writing is on the wall for this one and kaotic is just really seeking consensus on what is already a foregone conclusion.

Some people can get along despite religious differences, but most cannot. Based upon his description of his girlfriend she doesn't sound like the type to compromise or be tolerant of beliefs other than her own. She's going to end up very lonely unless she finds a fellow believer with whom to share her religious enthusiasm. That is until she decides to convert to something else...

Best to let this one go and find another.

I agree with you. Just trying to keep some options open.
I sure would hate it if they broke up becuase of stuff we said in the forum and not because they reached that conclusion themselves.

Personally I couldn't live with someone who makes me follow rituals or harps on all the time to make me "see the light" I think I'd be out the door pretty fast. Life is too short.

[wiirenet]

Basically, I don't think the religious part of this thread is that important, but how your gf treats you and others now. Personally I think it sounds like she is really intolerant now, and my personal opinion is that people with her beliefs are really naive and as someone mentioned above... I think there's something psychological behind that. Something had to make her think she needs to follow drastic religious rules to get into heaven..

I don't agree with most religions, but I'll let people be. No offense, but some religions, and it sounds like hers is one of those, are really uptight and intolerant of others and seem to preach to friends and family in order to convert them. And look down on everyone else.

I couldn't stand to be friends with someone like that (I know it sounds ironic, makes me sound intolerant :P) but if the person isn't going to be looking down on me or preaching to me (like it seems SDA does) i won't care... I really admire some religions, but some.. I don't.

Wish you luck, but if this is bothers you I doubt your relationship is going to last if she stays this way.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Originally Posted by tomato

I agree with you. Just trying to keep some options open.
I sure would hate it if they broke up becuase of stuff we said in the forum and not because they reached that conclusion themselves.

Personally I couldn't live with someone who makes me follow rituals or harps on all the time to make me "see the light" I think I'd be out the door pretty fast. Life is too short.

hahaha, that's what I told her, but she just thinks that I'm taking the easy way out. I said, "Great, that's what you believe."

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Originally Posted by wiirenet

Basically, I don't think the religious part of this thread is that important, but how your gf treats you and others now. Personally I think it sounds like she is really intolerant now, and my personal opinion is that people with her beliefs are really naive and as someone mentioned above... I think there's something psychological behind that. Something had to make her think she needs to follow drastic religious rules to get into heaven..

I don't agree with most religions, but I'll let people be. No offense, but some religions, and it sounds like hers is one of those, are really uptight and intolerant of others and seem to preach to friends and family in order to convert them. And look down on everyone else.

I couldn't stand to be friends with someone like that (I know it sounds ironic, makes me sound intolerant :P) but if the person isn't going to be looking down on me or preaching to me (like it seems SDA does) i won't care... I really admire some religions, but some.. I don't.

Wish you luck, but if this is bothers you I doubt your relationship is going to last if she stays this way.

She wasn't like this until about two months ago when they switched to SDA. She used to be open-minded and hears everyone's opinions. Also, I'm not saying that all SDA's go around and blast people with their beliefs, as I know of no other SDA's, but it may just be the person leading their Bible studies that's influencing them to do all of this.

[marcus]

wow this thread is gonna be blown out of proportion...

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Originally Posted by marcus

wow this thread is gonna be blown out of proportion...

How so? It's going by civilly. People are discussing various religions, and are mainly focusing on my situation.

[wiirenet]

Well, if it was a complete 180 on her personality... then I would stick around and try to talk her through it. Let her know it bothers you, and you value tolerance and etc. But, religion is.. well, religion. People are passionate about it. I don't know her, but since you do I think you can figure out of this is a temporary thing and you can teach her to be tolerant of other beliefs again, or if she's a lost cause because of the people she talks to now.

[TLyttle]

Yes, yes, a very civil thread indeed! There are other sites, other participants whose attitudes wouldn't be so... well, enlightened.

I have seen a number of families torn to shreds by these "conversions", always ugly, usually because the organisation keeps pounding on the converted about how they are living with a sinner, and raising the family in sinful ways; how powerful is that? Tell someone that they are sending their kid to Hell because (usually) hubby won't convert, now there's a dinner table conversation no one wants to be part of! More than once I have told reps from SDA and JW that their zealotry is more destructive than any vice, right up there with heroin and crack, and that they are lucky the Law protects them because of their greedy practices. Usually, that is when they leave.

Staying in a relationship like that is only going to put off the inevitable: "little" problems get a whole lot bigger as time goes by. Certainly, it is best that it came up now, rather than after you established a family. You just know that they will find her a "suitable" mate when you split.

[nemelek]

I swore that I would sit on the sidelines for this thread. Oh well. These are my thoughts and beliefs and I speak for no one but myself.

Religion is for people that don’t want to go to hell. Spiritually is for people that have lived in hell. I was born into a Catholic family and did the sacraments and alter boy thing. Never believed that wine and bread was changed to body and blood of Christ during the mass. Still don’t. When I left home I left the church and never went back except for weddings and funerals. Born again were interesting and I often told them no thanks, I had enough of the crap the first time.

It is said that what you think about most becomes your God. For some it’s money, sex, work etc. Mine was drugs and alcohol. In 12 years I drank my lifetime and 5 other peoples lifetime supply of alcohol. Drove drunk over 1,000 times. Even after killing a teenager while drunk driving I didn’t stop. When I tried I couldn’t quit. It took finding a power greater than myself through a 12 step program to finally stop. Today I have over 20 years of continuous sobriety. God did for me what I couldn’t do for myself. God didn’t open the gates of heaven and let me in, He opened the gates of hell and let me out.

I believe that there have been enlighten spiritual teachers that have lived among us. Jesus, Ali, Gandhi, Buddha, and others. Like them I am also a son of God. However, these people achieved a spiritual awareness that I’ll never obtain but to grow toward. To me God is like the electricity in a house. If you find a place plug into it there is remarkable things that can be done. The Star Wars God of the force and being able to channel the power through you is also a metaphor I use to describe my beliefs.

God gave man free will. That means that I have the right to choose and create my life. I can make choices based on prayer and meditation or based on ego and old beliefs. Every day, ever hour, every minuet I stand at the turning point. I can make choices based on love or fear. There are no wrong choices. If I take the road A I live certain life lessons. If I take road B I live another set of lessons.

This applies to relationships. If I choose to stay, I’ll live a certain set of lessons. If I leave, I’ll live another. The real question is that if I leave but end up in the same relationship with a different person what did I really learn. The goal is not to see what I can get from another. The goal is to see what I can give. Paradoxically the more I give, the more I get. Also the other person has the right to free will and in order to grow spiritually might find it necessary to leave me. My choices become do I learn and grow or do I wallow in self pity.

I believe that water seeks it’s own level. If I have great relationships, I must be doing well. If I have sick relationships I am probably not all that mentally healthy. Relationships are like rock tumblers. Every body rough edges keep getting knocked against each other until we are polished gem stones. I have been knocked around a lot and still being polished.

Relationships can be tough Good Luck.