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Kal-El · 04-12-2010, 11:53 PM

^Exactly.

I don't know why it's so difficult for some to understand.

The Constitution clearly restricts the FEDERAL Government from implementing such sweeping legislation that effects states individual rights. These matters are to be left to the states and their people. With this bill, a majority of states oppose it. 60% of all US citizens want it repealed. How can the Federal Government force such an act that clearly violates the wishes of The People.

It's why Massachusetts was able to do it individually. That's the state's right. If a state wants to bankrupt themselves, they're free to. The Federal Government, in this case, has just imposed legislation that forces huge costs to state budgets that want nothing to do with it. Texas along with a handful of other states have played responsibly and are among the few who are doing well financially. Now, they will be crippled like the rest of the liberal states under mountains of debt.

It's just like all of the other social issues. Guns laws, gay marriage, DMV laws, state tax laws, and endless state regulations involving industry and everything else is all left to the state. Notice that the federal government has no power in these matters (or at least very limited).

frownonfun · 04-13-2010, 12:01 AM

it's not a government takeover. for or against the legislation i don't really care. but please stop calling it a government takeover of healthcare. best i can figure we are still dealing with the insurance companies... not the government.

also the post office isn't technically run by the government either. just sayin.

TLyttle · 04-13-2010, 12:14 AM

Sure, Kal-El, the margins on health care are so low that people are flocking to invest in it at any level possible. To us, it is really strange to hear about portfolios that include HMOs (or whatever they are called) and hospitals. Typically, the investment community is only interested in the welfare of the shareholder, and doesn't give a damn about the sick; otherwise, no one's health care would be cancelled for "pre-existing conditions". As I said, profits before people.

Get rid of a couple of wars, and the US would have no trouble affording truly universal health care, plus a better education system.

Kal-El · 04-13-2010, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frownonfun

it's not a government takeover. for or against the legislation i don't really care. but please stop calling it a government takeover of healthcare. best i can figure we are still dealing with the insurance companies... not the government.

You're missing the big picture or the planned and inevitable end result of all this. Yes, I said planned. Obama and many other liberals at the top have said it in clear words that this is just the first step to a single payer system (government of course). Obama has said it not just once, but many times.

The whole structure is designed to eliminate private insurance - even though they are currently not admitting it. All of the regulations set into place will, without a doubt, bankrupt private insurance. It's only a matter of time that government will be the only entity left.

That, my friend, is a government takeover.

frownonfun · 04-13-2010, 12:24 AM

Just as long as we can all agree the (very mild) reform that was just passed is really and truly far from a government takeover.

As far as what the future holds for health care, well, I'm all for a single payer system. It's hard to steer a proponent of socialism away from nationalized health care. But that's just my opinion and I'm not looking to start a debate with anyone about that.

Kal-El · 04-13-2010, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frownonfun

Just as long as we can all agree the (very mild) reform that was just passed is really and truly far from a government takeover.

As far as what the future holds for health care, well, I'm all for a single payer system. It's hard to steer a proponent of socialism away from nationalized health care. But that's just my opinion and I'm not looking to start a debate with anyone about that.

Wow, you're admitting to being a proponent of socialism. And a Texan no less.

You're free to have those beliefs but there's no point in arguing with you about them. Won't get us anywhere.

TLyttle · 04-13-2010, 01:13 PM

So.... uhhhh... Canada is a Socialist country? I really must relate that to my friends and neighbours, I'm sure they still thought we were free enterprise! Britain would be surprised to hear the news as well, along with every other Western nation whose health care system doesn't depend on private investment.

Your fear of any form of socialism is surprising, considering the number of social programs operating nicely in the US, most notably the military, the police forces, or any other program where the taxpayers support its existence. Yet when it comes to a program where American lives can be saved, you start screaming "Commies".....

RedRide · 04-13-2010, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLyttle

So.... uhhhh... Canada is a Socialist country? I really must relate that to my friends and neighbours, I'm sure they still thought we were free enterprise! Britain would be surprised to hear the news as well, along with every other Western nation whose health care system doesn't depend on private investment.

Your fear of any form of socialism is surprising, considering the number of social programs operating nicely in the US, most notably the military, the police forces, or any other program where the taxpayers support its existence. Yet when it comes to a program where American lives can be saved, you start screaming "Commies".....

Excactly!
It has everthing to do with partisain politics and nothing to so with reality.

We have a goup of ignorant, hypocritical, hysterical fear mongers in the US whos only goal is to destroy the political oposition.
They have no interest in the truth, only Obama bashing.

Kal-El · 04-13-2010, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedRide

Excactly!
It has everthing to do with partisain politics and nothing to so with reality.

We have a goup of ignorant, hypocritical, hysterical fear mongers in the US whos only goal is to destroy the political oposition.
They have no interest in the truth, only Obama bashing.

And Bush didn't get any criticism throughout his presidency. I was just imagining it when he was called Hitler, Satan, ect. Not saying I'm a fan of Bush as he was too liberal, but just pointing out that he was trampled upon in office. It was OK though because he was just a regular white dude.

RedRide · 04-14-2010, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kal-El

And Bush didn't get any criticism throughout his presidency. I was just imagining it when he was called Hitler, Satan, ect. Not saying I'm a fan of Bush as he was too liberal, but just pointing out that he was trampled upon in office. It was OK though because he was just a regular white dude.

You are kidding right? Comparing the ligitimate criticism of Jr with the constant, asinine blatent lies about Obama is rediculous to say the least.

Kal-El · 04-14-2010, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedRide

You are kidding right? Comparing the ligitimate criticism of Jr with the constant, asinine blatent lies about Obama is rediculous to say the least.

So criticism of Bush is legitimate because you don't like Bush but it's illegitimate criticism when it's someone you agree with.

Got it.

Tell me one lie about Obama. I'm curious.

RedRide · 04-14-2010, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kal-El

So criticism of Bush is legitimate because you don't like Bush but it's illegitimate criticism when it's someone you agree with.

Got it.

Tell me one lie about Obama. I'm curious.

You don't know about how JR trashed the constitution and nearly destroyed the economy etc?

You really do not know of at least "one lie" (of many) about Obama?

Are you just "kiddiing", or are you actually that uninformed?

04-13-2010, 12:01 AM	#38
frownonfun View User's Garage Drives: 09 Yaris HB, 08 SR5 Tundra Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: RGV, Texas Posts: 1,086	it's not a government takeover. for or against the legislation i don't really care. but please stop calling it a government takeover of healthcare. best i can figure we are still dealing with the insurance companies... not the government. also the post office isn't technically run by the government either. just sayin. __________________ I crush you like tiny clown car, because you are clown, yes?

04-13-2010, 12:24 AM	#41
frownonfun View User's Garage Drives: 09 Yaris HB, 08 SR5 Tundra Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: RGV, Texas Posts: 1,086	Just as long as we can all agree the (very mild) reform that was just passed is really and truly far from a government takeover. As far as what the future holds for health care, well, I'm all for a single payer system. It's hard to steer a proponent of socialism away from nationalized health care. But that's just my opinion and I'm not looking to start a debate with anyone about that. __________________ I crush you like tiny clown car, because you are clown, yes?

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04-12-2010, 11:53 PM	#37
Kal-El Drives: 07 Yaris S Sedan 5-Speed Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 2,179	^Exactly. I don't know why it's so difficult for some to understand. The Constitution clearly restricts the FEDERAL Government from implementing such sweeping legislation that effects states individual rights. These matters are to be left to the states and their people. With this bill, a majority of states oppose it. 60% of all US citizens want it repealed. How can the Federal Government force such an act that clearly violates the wishes of The People. It's why Massachusetts was able to do it individually. That's the state's right. If a state wants to bankrupt themselves, they're free to. The Federal Government, in this case, has just imposed legislation that forces huge costs to state budgets that want nothing to do with it. Texas along with a handful of other states have played responsibly and are among the few who are doing well financially. Now, they will be crippled like the rest of the liberal states under mountains of debt. It's just like all of the other social issues. Guns laws, gay marriage, DMV laws, state tax laws, and endless state regulations involving industry and everything else is all left to the state. Notice that the federal government has no power in these matters (or at least very limited).

04-13-2010, 12:14 AM	#39
TLyttle Drives: 07 Yaris sedan Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Keremeos BC Posts: 986	Sure, Kal-El, the margins on health care are so low that people are flocking to invest in it at any level possible. To us, it is really strange to hear about portfolios that include HMOs (or whatever they are called) and hospitals. Typically, the investment community is only interested in the welfare of the shareholder, and doesn't give a damn about the sick; otherwise, no one's health care would be cancelled for "pre-existing conditions". As I said, profits before people. Get rid of a couple of wars, and the US would have no trouble affording truly universal health care, plus a better education system.

04-13-2010, 01:13 PM	#43
TLyttle Drives: 07 Yaris sedan Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Keremeos BC Posts: 986	So.... uhhhh... Canada is a Socialist country? I really must relate that to my friends and neighbours, I'm sure they still thought we were free enterprise! Britain would be surprised to hear the news as well, along with every other Western nation whose health care system doesn't depend on private investment. Your fear of any form of socialism is surprising, considering the number of social programs operating nicely in the US, most notably the military, the police forces, or any other program where the taxpayers support its existence. Yet when it comes to a program where American lives can be saved, you start screaming "Commies".....