Look Out Toyota, Here Comes The Good Enough Chinese Car

[david_827]

Originally Posted by bronsin

For years now we have been at the mercy of domestic and foriegn cars making us buy cars with features we do not want. Electric windows, power mirrors, remote entry, ABS, airbags, automatic transmission the list is endless.

i'm sorry but those are features that want, especially with things like ABS and air bags.

i would definitely pass on a car made in China, but your strong opinion on getting one doesnt surprise me, as your one of the people who would be willing to pay less for a less safe car (as evidenced by the statement quoted above), and if i remember correctly, your the person who thought the spammer selling phones for cheap was real.

[edmscan]

Originally Posted by david_827

i'm sorry but those are features that want, especially with things like ABS and air bags.

i would definitely pass on a car made in China, but your strong opinion on getting one doesnt surprise me, as your one of the people who would be willing to pay less for a less safe car (as evidenced by the statement quoted above), and if i remember correctly, your the person who thought the spammer selling phones for cheap was real.

LMAO .. well said. Nice to see when someone's stupidity comes back to haunt them.

[xnamerxx]

Since no one here has ever had the joy of sitting in a brand new Chinese made vehicle or seeing a crash tested Chinese made vehicle I can tell you my story.

The company I work for has contracts with several firms and one of those firms makes cars in China so we see them from time to time here in the shop. Sitting in a brand new Chinese car isn't like sitting in a car made in Korea, France, Poland, or even Mexico the quality of the materials can appear nice at first but its quickly obvious that it's built down to a cost you can tell because the new car smell isn't what your used to here and we joke around the office that its the new cancer smell because it almost gives you the feeling like your breathing in mercury or lead or something else poisonous.

Well one of the things we also had to do here was demonstrate a 5 mph test, and I'll tell you this unless the quality of the metals that Chinese OEM's use improves I'll never and I repeat that never ride in one. The 5 mph test resulted in FRAME damage so we had to reinforce the front structure so much that it gained a bunch of weight simply to pass the minor accident test.

Just because the Yaris results in more injury claims doesn't mean its a dangerous car, statistics can be very misleading and even more so when someone has an agenda.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by xnamerxx

Since no one here has ever had the joy of sitting in a brand new Chinese made vehicle or seeing a crash tested Chinese made vehicle I can tell you my story.

The company I work for has contracts with several firms and one of those firms makes cars in China so we see them from time to time here in the shop. Sitting in a brand new Chinese car isn't like sitting in a car made in Korea, France, Poland, or even Mexico the quality of the materials can appear nice at first but its quickly obvious that it's built down to a cost you can tell because the new car smell isn't what your used to here and we joke around the office that its the new cancer smell because it almost gives you the feeling like your breathing in mercury or lead or something else poisonous.

Well one of the things we also had to do here was demonstrate a 5 mph test, and I'll tell you this unless the quality of the metals that Chinese OEM's use improves I'll never and I repeat that never ride in one. The 5 mph test resulted in FRAME damage so we had to reinforce the front structure so much that it gained a bunch of weight simply to pass the minor accident test.

Just because the Yaris results in more injury claims doesn't mean its a dangerous car, statistics can be very misleading and even more so when someone has an agenda.

Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice(sarc). I agree with you, but I also feel that supporting things that are unsafe (the Chinese cars you speak of, removing ABS and air bags from inexpensive world cars like the Yaris (and others)) can be a separate issue (in every meaningful way) from supporting simplicity re non safety issues (hand crank windows, etc.)

[bronsin]

Originally Posted by xnamerxx

Since no one here has ever had the joy of sitting in a brand new Chinese made vehicle or seeing a crash tested Chinese made vehicle I can tell you my story.

The company I work for has contracts with several firms and one of those firms makes cars in China so we see them from time to time here in the shop. Sitting in a brand new Chinese car isn't like sitting in a car made in Korea, France, Poland, or even Mexico the quality of the materials can appear nice at first but its quickly obvious that it's built down to a cost you can tell because the new car smell isn't what your used to here and we joke around the office that its the new cancer smell because it almost gives you the feeling like your breathing in mercury or lead or something else poisonous.

Well one of the things we also had to do here was demonstrate a 5 mph test, and I'll tell you this unless the quality of the metals that Chinese OEM's use improves I'll never and I repeat that never ride in one. The 5 mph test resulted in FRAME damage so we had to reinforce the front structure so much that it gained a bunch of weight simply to pass the minor accident test.

Just because the Yaris results in more injury claims doesn't mean its a dangerous car, statistics can be very misleading and even more so when someone has an agenda.

I drove VW Beetles hundreds of thousands of miles in the 70s and 80s. No ABS. No airbags. No "crush zones", no nothing. The gas tank is right in your lap, theres no engine in front of you to absorb energy in a frontal crash, the brakes are manually adjusted drums all around (no power assist either) and the car is completely directionably unstable.

But at least you are inside something, unlike the motorcycles I have also ridden for a like number of miles over thrity years. Any mistakes by yourself or others results in unpleasentness.

Safety in driving machines begins and ends in your head. Because of things like airbags the public is under the impression they are "safe" in modern vehicles. (airbags result in something called "degloving" as well as amputation to an alarming degree while minimizing other things)

Good luck with that!

[12 yaris]

We will never see one in the states....

[bronsin]

Originally Posted by 12 yaris

We will never see one in the states....

You assume the Chinese will always make cars you are familiar with.

Unlikely.

[tooter]

Originally Posted by bronsin

You assume the Chinese will always make cars you are familiar with.

Unlikely.

Just like the Japanese and the Koreans, the Chinese have a very steep
learning curve. I predict that in the coming years the quality of their cars will rival all the others.

I was around in the 60's when "Made in Japan" was a joke. Now their products are sought after the world over for their high quality.

That's how business works.

[xnamerxx]

Originally Posted by bronsin

I drove VW Beetles hundreds of thousands of miles in the 70s and 80s. No ABS. No airbags. No "crush zones", no nothing. The gas tank is right in your lap, theres no engine in front of you to absorb energy in a frontal crash, the brakes are manually adjusted drums all around (no power assist either) and the car is completely directionably unstable.

But at least you are inside something, unlike the motorcycles I have also ridden for a like number of miles over thrity years. Any mistakes by yourself or others results in unpleasentness.

Safety in driving machines begins and ends in your head. Because of things like airbags the public is under the impression they are "safe" in modern vehicles. (airbags result in something called "degloving" as well as amputation to an alarming degree while minimizing other things)

Good luck with that!

And...Car's in the 70's didn't have to pass safety regulation, i've been in a bad wreck in a car built in the 60's and came out mostly unscathed except some lifelong neck pain and I've had a family die in a accident in a VW bug I'm not comparing a car built 30-40 years ago to a car built today in fact its not even the safety equipment or lack there of that bothers me about Chinese cars they simply don't have the Q/C on materials that makes them scary to me. I've witnessed first hand what crappy materials and a car that was reverse engineered in a minor accident and its frightening to think that this car IS for sale in the US. Yes it was eventually able to pass safety tests but that was only after major reinforcement of the occupant safety cell and even then I wouldn't call the results stellar.

To reiterate my point there is no consistency with the metal that's used to make one car to another because they don't have that level of Q/C of the materials going into it, don't expect a Chinese car to do 200-300k on the chassis it will be well worn out before then.

I don't expect the Chinese quality to get any better there is no war that there recovering from the population is to large to demand better labor conditions and the social difference between the Chinese and Japanese are the reason why the Chinese will likely never get better.

The Japanese will copy something and make a better product easy example were all the knockoff British cars from the 60's and 70's which ended up being better than the cars they were based off, where as the Chinese will copy something to make you look like you have the original product but not pay the price for it ie the huge fake Rolex and Gucci knockoff market in China.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by edmscan

LMAO .. well said. Nice to see when someone's stupidity comes back to haunt them.

I recognized the aforementioned phone guy as a spammer. Just because Bronsin happened to be gullible re this 'incident' doesn't invalidate his opinion re what the car industry wants to make us put up with. I feel it is an ad hominem illustration. Some people might feel that including safety features like ABS and airbags on his list might invalidate his opinion re cars. I don't agree with including those items, but I think that is a bit harsh......and I'm more cynical and sarcastic than most people I encounter....just my two cents. Some people might roll their eyes and feel I'm only expressing this particular opinion because I largely agree with Bronsin, but this isn't the case. I like to chide Bronsin about other things, but I don't think anything re the phone spammer is relevant to any other Yarisworld threads.....again, just my two cents.

[bronsin]

Originally Posted by edmscan

LMAO .. well said. Nice to see when someone's stupidity comes back to haunt them.

See above.

You might not be as smart as you think.

[edmscan]

Originally Posted by bronsin

See above.

You might not be as smart as you think.

True .. but given a choice I will take the safety features in the Yaris. Your opinion obviously differs from some .. and I respect that. Sorry for making a comment that may be negative, but your desire to rid our cars of its safety features is in my opinion just plain stupid. Enough said.

I think you will find that your desires will never happen as society demands these features in our cars (whether this is good or bad remains to be seen), and I don't think you will see them being removed anytime soon.

[12 yaris]

Guys,
Who in there right mind would buy this car anyway.
It will never meet saftey standards.
This is like the Yugo,a shit box...