Officer punches girl in face...

[coffiend]

sorry but I cant agree with you on that one TLyttle, although I dont smoke weed, I dont feel that it should be an illegal substance, and I do make my voice heard on that every chance I get.

You're saying that profiling is okay and pulling over young people without any real reasonable cause other than their age is okay because they are more accident prone?

well... if a study showed that more Honda got in accidents than Toyotas do you think that an officer should pull over every Honda he/she can? how is profiling young people any different than pulling over a black person for being black? or a hispanic for being hispanic? etc. etc.

it is no different. If an officer doesnt have any reasonable cause to pull an individual (a person is doing something illegal) then they should mind their own business and find something to do that is actually helping the community, thats all there is to it.

If thats how things were, my respect would be restored, but unfortunately that is never going to happen.

[Astroman]

There is not one reported case of anyone dying from smoking weed.

[STC]

Originally Posted by Astroman

There is not one reported case of anyone dying from smoking weed.

Yeppers!

This is propaganda controlled by the MSM (Mainstream Media). These lies (misinformation, disinformation) are only use to confuse the public into thinking weed is bad and leads to more dangerous drug use. This propaganda is specifically for helping the interests of the Big Tobacco, Alcohol, and Pharmaceutical Industries trans-nationally. You don't want to mess with these establishments and cut-out their business! Oh, and cigerretes, chew, alcohol, and pharmaceuticals... all legal substances and drugs are far more disasterous and detrimental to the well being of people than pot. They actually KILL!

I'm a conservative... and I don't smoke weed. Yet, I also don't think it should be illegal and all the harsh penalties placed ontop of it! The "War on Drugs" is a complete joke... a total lie!

Cheers!

[djct_watt]

Originally Posted by coffiend

sorry but I cant agree with you on that one TLyttle, although I dont smoke weed, I dont feel that it should be an illegal substance, and I do make my voice heard on that every chance I get.

You're saying that profiling is okay and pulling over young people without any real reasonable cause other than their age is okay because they are more accident prone?

well... if a study showed that more Honda got in accidents than Toyotas do you think that an officer should pull over every Honda he/she can? how is profiling young people any different than pulling over a black person for being black? or a hispanic for being hispanic? etc. etc.

it is no different. If an officer doesnt have any reasonable cause to pull an individual (a person is doing something illegal) then they should mind their own business and find something to do that is actually helping the community, thats all there is to it.

If thats how things were, my respect would be restored, but unfortunately that is never going to happen.

That makes sense. . . but you have to get into the definition of stereotyping and profiling. IE, to pull someone over who is in a beat up low rider, neon lights, with thumping bass, in a neighborhood where those kinds of cars just don't exist would probably be warranted. However, pulling over a black guy just because he is black is not, especially if it's a black guy in a suit driving a Ferrari. However, if you see some kid all dressed in Fubu and gold chains, driving a Smart car like he stole it. . . there might be a chance he did.

In a sense, you have to profile criminals and criminal behavior/red flags. Sometimes racial lines cross into the statistics (ie, odds are most people who dress "urban" in certain neighborhoods will likely be a minority), but profiling COMPLETELY on race IS a bad idea. A lot of judgement and discretion should be used. . .

. . . another scenario would be 3AM, a big group of youths walking, dressed in stereotypical rebel type clothing should probably deserve a second look (maybe not a full stop, but a second look, and a full stop if other things are noticed). However, a bunch of nerds dressed in star trek uniforms at 10PM probably do not need to be bothered.

Judgement and discretion is a critical part of cops' job, and without the ability to use them, a cop would be pretty much be useless.

It's easy to be against a police state where you are subject to search, but when I was living in Sacramento, my roommate's car was broken into 6 times in 1 year. My bicycle had been stolen. Another friend had his motorcycle stolen. My neighbor was raped. My friend and I were assaulted by a group of 10 drunk @#(*$#$@#$'s. I was lucky enough to not get badly injured, but my friend was hospitalized. I never committed any crimes, and I'd prefer to be "inconvenienced" if it meant that my friend didn't have to have his head bashed in and his face torn open. And you know what, there were tons of cops in the area. We even had a police station a few blocks away. But the thing is, most criminals (even the most stupid ones) will not commit a crime directly in front of an officer. . .

As long as things are kept reasonable, professional, and courteous, I am all over prevention methods, especially if they work.

It's easy to be against police when you never really fall victim to serious crimes.

[cali yaris]

I'm a conservative... and I don't smoke weed. Yet, I also don't think it should be illegal and all the harsh penalties placed ontop of it! The "War on Drugs" is a complete joke... a total lie!

Amen. I'm a liberal -- and I don't smoke either.

It's not the mainstream media, it's Dow Chemical and their peers that caused and continue to promote the misconceptions.

Historical Fact:

Marijuana was classified as a narcotic (which it isn't) because of strong lobbying efforts by Dow and other companies decades ago. Why? So hemp would be replaced by their nylon, rayon and other synthetic products.

[STC]

Originally Posted by cali yaris

Amen. I'm a liberal -- and I don't smoke either.

It's not the mainstream media, it's Dow Chemical and their peers that caused and continue to promote the misconceptions.

Historical Fact:

Marijuana was classified as a narcotic (which it isn't) because of strong lobbying efforts by Dow and other companies decades ago. Why? So hemp would be replaced by their nylon, rayon and other synthetic products.

Exactly! Hemp and Marijuana are different! You cannot draw enough THC (active chemical ingredient) in hemp to get a high. It is all about the profits for Dow and other companies.

I'm a conservative as I stated... a fiscal conservative. Yet, when it comes to social issues... like these... to best descibe me would be a Libertarian...

Cheers!

[PETERPOOP]

BOOM!

[TLyttle]

Agreed, djct. My comment had to do with those who flaunt the law, and feel abused when they are taken out for it. Fight the law, don't flaunt it. We have hemp farms up here, and the farmers are always finding kids in the middle of the field huffing and puffing...

Cops have a really tough time, aprticularly in the US, where the gun laws are so lax. Our laws are tighter, and the cops suffer far fewer casualties, our citizens suffer far fewer casualties, but that is another subject. Cops profile ALL THE TIME, and we should be thankful they do. As far hassling a bunch of teens in a car (or on the street) is concerned, it isn't the group that is the threat, it is the attitude the group is projecting that the cops look for.

Way back when, we had curfews; they interfered with our "rights" apparently, so they outlawed them. Amazingly it was about that time that the cops started to lose control...

[tomato]

Everybody profiles in some way, not just cops. For example, I pay attention when I commute late at night and if a bunch of youths wearing large pants and large t shirts happens to pass by (you know the look), I become a bit more alert. We all do it to a degree.

This video makes me sad on many levels I don't know what to say.

On the one hand, I totally feel sorry for the cop, being completely outnumbered by the kids who could fly off the handle at any moment. I've driven and taken public transportation through similar neighborhoods many times and I can't imagine he's feeling too confident right now.

And then, the cop hits the girl, and my stomach kind of sinks even further and I feel totally bad for her, regardless of how she behaved before. Yes, she's wrong for resisting arrest. But I can also totally imagine how these kids grow up and why they feel the way they do towards "authority." Heck it doesn't take a genius to understand how these kids grow up, so yeah, part of me feels terrible for them too.

I don't know. This is all very sad indeed.

[tomato]

my daily commute:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BART_Po...of_Oscar_Grant

Thankfully this is a rare incident, but still *sigh* :/

i spoke to some cops later on, and they don't understand how something like this could have happened.

so I watch the OP's video and I fear the worst could happen. When people get scared, you never can tell what's going to happen next :/

[sqcomp]

Isn't the bottom line, Don't break the law?

All the pigs must die! Oh wait, until someone I know needs the police...or until someone steals my stuff. Yeah! Until then, all pigs must die.

Notice the sarchasm. Some of you people are incredible.

[coffiend]

so a black guy dressed like a black guy should be profiled.

a rich black guy dressed like a white guy should not be.

right, got it.

[djct_watt]

Originally Posted by coffiend

so a black guy dressed like a black guy should be profiled.

a rich black guy dressed like a white guy should not be.

right, got it.

No. It doesn't matter if you're black or white or Asian or Mexican... If u dress like u came out of the projects, then it's shady. It's racist of you to assume that people looking like they came from the projects are necessarily black and that people who look wealthy are necessarily
white. If you wanna argue stats, yeah, you could, but it does not neccesitate a correlation.

[tomato]

Originally Posted by djct_watt

No. It doesn't matter if you're black or white or Asian or Mexican... If u dress like u came out of the projects, then it's shady. It's racist of you to assume that people looking like they came from the projects are necessarily black and that people who look wealthy are necessarily
white. If you wanna argue stats, yeah, you could, but it does not neccesitate a correlation.

With respect, that's not what he said, at least I don't read his comment that way at all.

[djct_watt]

Originally Posted by tomato

With respect, that's not what he said, at least I don't read his comment that way at all.

I understand, and it's possible I misread the comment too. But my retort was a bit sarcastic too. It's the common belief that black people inherently dress "urban" and white people dress in suits. But in fact, it's not true. It has more to do with money than anything else. Yes, there are a few weirdos and wealthy rappers that dress like gangbangers (because sometimes they are). But for the most part; black, white or any race will tend to dress in more conventional upscale type clothing. Generally, those less fortunate cannot or choose not to dress that way (as they would probably be ridiculed for it).

But there are tons of white people (and white people who wish to portray an image) who dress urban. . . and subsequently get profiled by the cops too.

Hence, "so a black guy dressed like a black guy should be profiled.

a rich black guy dressed like a white guy should not be. " My understanding is that means that black people dressing like they inherently do is a social negative and that they need to adopt cultural ideas not of their own. But here's the irony of it all, "urban" clothing in itself is not native or inherent at all! They're all main stream brands sold and marketed by the very same clothing company that sell dorky t-shirts and nerdy clothing. And in fact, very many (the majority) of wealthy black people do not dress urban because they choose not to. Now if some black guy was pulled over because he was wearing some cultural african clothing, that'd be terrible!

But IMO, dress like a gangbanger, expect to be treated (and profiled) like a gangbanger. It has nothing to do with race. If eminem wasn't famous, he'd be profiled in a heartbeat. And so would a punk-rocker meth-head lookalike. . .

And my sarcastic point is that to assume that such clothing trends are inherent to race is in itself a racist perspective. The clothing trends, in actuality are inherent to social conditions.

[coffiend]

plus.... who really gets pulled over for jaywalking anyways?

Do you really think the cop would have stopped a rich white man in a suit if he was jaywalking.

I bet not.

that is what type of social injustice I am talking about.

"When Missouri issued its first such report on June 1, 2001, it showed black motorists were stopped a rate 30 percent higher than white drivers during a roughly four-month period in 2000. In 2009, that disparity was at 67 percent."

-KSPR news 33

"Police in Lancaster and Douglas counties pull over black drivers at about twice their percent of the local population.
Statewide, Hispanic and Native drivers are more than twice as likely as white drivers to have their cars searched after being pulled over."

- NE JOURNALSTAR regarding the Omaha area

"In Maryland from January 1995 through December 1997, 70 percent of the drivers stopped on Interstate 95 were African Americans. According to an ACLU survey conducted around that time, only 17.5 percent of the traffic and speeders on that road were African American.
Source: Cole, David, No Equal Justice: Race and Class in the American Criminal Justice System (New York: The New Press, 1999), p. 36."

"In Montgomery County, MD in 2001, “Blacks drivers were about three times as likely as whites to be asked if their vehicles could be searched. Of 450 searches, 197, or 43.8 percent, were of black drivers; 150 were of whites; and 78 were Hispanics.”
Source: Phuong, Ly, “Montgomery Traffic Data Show Race Disparity” Washington Post, Friday, November 2, 2001"

Go look up ACLU's "Driving While Black"

please do not try to convince me that profiling is okay for police.

Tomato, you mentioned that everybody profiles in some way, and you are correct in that. The difference is, police profile and have the power to impose their will, and we as citizens dont have the right to stop it....

[bkndacn]

"In Maryland from January 1995 through December 1997, 70 percent of the drivers stopped on Interstate 95 were African Americans. According to an ACLU survey conducted around that time, only 17.5 percent of the traffic and speeders on that road were African American.
Source: Cole, David, No Equal Justice: Race and Class in the American Criminal Justice System (New York: The New Press, 1999), p. 36."

"In Montgomery County, MD in 2001, “Blacks drivers were about three times as likely as whites to be asked if their vehicles could be searched. Of 450 searches, 197, or 43.8 percent, were of black drivers; 150 were of whites; and 78 were Hispanics.”

Well I grew up near Baltimore and I can tell you right now that 95% of the black people who's vehicles where searched where probably caught with something. Id like to see the stats for that!
Im not being racist but the its a fact that Poorest areas around there are where most of the trouble comes from .... and it is a fact that those areas are predominantly black
so its not being racist but statistical!
its to the point back there that there are police cameras on every corner in the city!

[djct_watt]

Originally Posted by bkndacn

"In Maryland from January 1995 through December 1997, 70 percent of the drivers stopped on Interstate 95 were African Americans. According to an ACLU survey conducted around that time, only 17.5 percent of the traffic and speeders on that road were African American.
Source: Cole, David, No Equal Justice: Race and Class in the American Criminal Justice System (New York: The New Press, 1999), p. 36."

"In Montgomery County, MD in 2001, “Blacks drivers were about three times as likely as whites to be asked if their vehicles could be searched. Of 450 searches, 197, or 43.8 percent, were of black drivers; 150 were of whites; and 78 were Hispanics.”

Well I grew up near Baltimore and I can tell you right now that 95% of the black people who's vehicles where searched where probably caught with something. Id like to see the stats for that!
Im not being racist but the its a fact that Poorest areas around there are where most of the trouble comes from .... and it is a fact that those areas are predominantly black
so its not being racist but statistical!
its to the point back there that there are police cameras on every corner in the city!

Although I am FAR from a bleeding heart liberal, I can agree that those stats should raise some eyebrows. If I were in the position to, I'd investigate into the matter. That doesn't mean anything would have to be changed, but I'd want to make sure people's rights were not being unfairly encroached upon. But if those busts are legitimate, they are taking criminals off the street, and they are being professional and courteous in their stops, then so be it. Good job, Baltimore P.D.

That having been said, I strongly question the accuracy of an ACLU survey. Surveys and polls are often biased and grossly inaccurate. The ACLU is more concerned with high profile Jesse Jackson cases, trying to incriminate innocent people, like the Duke LaCrosse guys (the whole thing was a sham as it turns out and the story was fabricated). The ACLU cares more improving its own situation, rather than the people's.

This is getting off topic, but it's NOT alarming that the demographics of criminals is so skewed. What is alarming is that there is nothing being done to help change that. . . and I when I say change I don't mean making less busts, but rather actively doing something to change the social economics that create the problem, ie improving urban schools, youth programs, college scholarships, etc. Fire some secretaries, beaurocratic assistants, lobbyists, and union leaders, and dump the money into increased salaries to attract and keep better qualified teachers. And throwing more money at something won't even necessarily improve it. Massive restructuring needs to take place. . .