Thinking about a new sound System - Page 2 - Toyota Yaris Forums

Arkhangel · 02-26-2009, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sqcomp

Ark,

From what Spades was saying, he seems to be referring to a plate speaker. You can still put the stock speaker covers over the plate setup. It'll look stock.

For better imaging, eliminate the rear speakers all together and concentrate on the stereo signal in the front and the subwoofer(s) in the trunk.

Imaging? why take out these speakers?

sqcomp · 02-26-2009, 10:34 PM

There are several characteristics that explain the idea of overall sound quality as it relates to car audio:

Staging, imaging, ambiance, definition, and clarity are a few important ones. You can also think of timbre and tonal accuracy.

Imaging includes individual and specific locations for instrunments in the recording, they should be well defined and easily locatable. When you kick in rear fill speakers you move the stereo signal BACK, when it should be in front of you. Think of when you go to a live performance. Are you hearing the performers like you're on the stage? No. The soundstage is a plane in front of you. Ideally the soundstage should project the audio image that it is on your dash out on your hood, horizontally beyond both of the a-pillars.

...something to add to that spades? Or am I wrong about imaging?

Alien Mantis · 02-27-2009, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sqcomp

Imaging includes individual and specific locations for instrunments in the recording, they should be well defined and easily locatable. When you kick in rear fill speakers you move the stereo signal BACK, when it should be in front of you. Think of when you go to a live performance. Are you hearing the performers like you're on the stage? No. The soundstage is a plane in front of you. Ideally the soundstage should project the audio image that it is on your dash out on your hood, horizontally beyond both of the a-pillars.

EXACTLY.

I think you did a good job explaining "imaging".

People load speakers in the rear just to make the overall sound louder.
Although, if you can angle things correctly in the rear, you can get a surround effect and still have good imaging.
( You gotta balance the levels correctly when you do this. )
You don't want the rears overpowering the fronts.

I was never a fan of speakers in the rear deck.
It's just a bad location.

sqcomp · 02-27-2009, 03:17 AM

Oh yes. You can indeed use the rears to "raise" the front image..sort of. The better thing to do would be to improve your front stage if you're thinking about sound quality.

Arkhangel · 02-27-2009, 06:06 PM

ok

TinyGiant · 02-28-2009, 04:45 PM

i have a mtx 4 channel 400watt amp (i think its one of the ones in your pics) i'll get the model number. i think its like ts3404 or something like that

if you are looking .. I am selling :)

sqcomp · 03-01-2009, 05:47 AM

Who is this last post meant for?

TinyGiant · 03-01-2009, 09:31 AM

thread starter

sqcomp · 03-01-2009, 01:04 PM

well then...put it in it's own thread. Not trying to be a troll or anything.

talnlnky · 03-01-2009, 01:36 PM

When it comes to SQ & subwoofers... My heart will always lean toward a sub with a very low Le, and the ability to fit into small ported boxes (qts of .4 or lower). Le is the main thing that determines if a sub sounds "sluggish", or "fast", the other thing is the type, and tuning of the box. A ported box tuned to 35hz or below should almost always sound the same (in terms of transient response) as a sealed box with a qtc of .707.

despite what most people think, box size has very little to do with how "fast" a sub sounds. Tuning, and the speakers Le is where its at.... even the size of the woofer doesn't matter.

When it comes to speakers.... the crossover is the key. Components almost always have a better suited crossover than even the most expensive co-axial designs, thus components almost always sound better.

Co-axials do have one big advantage over most component installs. Co-axials have the same point of sound, so it sounds like all the sound is coming from the same place, instead of highs up high, and the mids & lows coming from the bottom of your doors. This is referred to as the "rainbow" effect, and is something that SQ judges look for.

As for which brand is best... ehhh... i think pretty much all car audio companies have similar flaws or short comings in their lines.

Speakers: companies often car about getting loud, and spend more R&D in the aesthetics than the performance. metallic speakers have bad break up/distortion characteristics and should only be used in subwoofers. Tweeters (usually the titanium/aluminum/mylar ones) often can be overly bright and require a lot of work in the crossover.

Subs: Focus on power handling, which means a big voice coil, which means a high Le which means bad transient response (slow sound). Further, car subs are often optimized to work decent in both ported and sealed boxes.... and not play the very low notes. This isn't a bad thing though because of the small size of cars can help make up for the lack of low end extension of the sub.

There are a few companies that seem to care more about making quality products than making a profit however. Unfortunately, often these companies don't last more than a few years, or are bought out and end up and are no longer the same.

Physics is what matters... if you have designers with a background in physics rather than in business, than you will get a good speaker. Some speaker companies don't even use people with EE degrees or the sort, but rather just experience in audio... which is ok.... but usually not as good (its like guessing and checking on a math problem, instead of just working the damn problem in the first place).

In conclusion... car audio is car audio.... 95% of the offerings are extremely similar. If you want something different, look at the DIY and home theater markets (for raw drivers)...the DIY HT market has some awesome speakers that are incredible if you can install them correctly in a car.

Altitude · 03-01-2009, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sqcomp

well then...put it in it's own thread. Not trying to be a troll or anything.

Why? His post was far more on topic than yours have been.

TinyGiant · 03-01-2009, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Altitude

Why? His post was far more on topic than yours have been.

lol

it has its own thread too..

oh well.. can't please em all :)

sqcomp · 03-02-2009, 02:51 AM

...okay. If you say so Alt.

Taln, you back from across the pond?

talnlnky · 03-03-2009, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sqcomp

...okay. If you say so Alt.

Taln, you back from across the pond?

yep... back from ireland.

sqcomp · 03-03-2009, 03:17 AM

Since I'm the one that SO off topic...

Hey Taln...don't be jealous over my midbass' mounting depth

talnlnky · 03-03-2009, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sqcomp

Since I'm the one that SO off topic...

Hey Taln...don't be jealous over my midbass' mounting depth

yeah screw you.... thing is... i'll have just as much "WOW!" factor... cause i'll have 12mm one way x-max, LINEAR X-max... so I'm sure I'll have similar displacement and range.

It's sunny right now... I'm really getting the urge to by another roll of raammat and starting on those doors.

sqcomp · 03-04-2009, 03:55 AM

It's all good brudda!

Damn man! You work fast...from I dunno when I'll get to the doors to It's sunny, I'm gonna mat my doors!

All I did today was four hours of troubleshooting on a BS Car Toys crap install, it turned out to be BOTH a bad radio ground (pioneer premier POS) and a bad RCA. Gotta love Car Toys. The install discipline was totally amatuer as well.

I've got pics of the single 5 channel amplifier that was supposed to be a slam dunk...and the BIRD'S NEST we found on the batery!! I'll throw those at you later when photobucket is back up from maintenance.

talnlnky · 03-05-2009, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sqcomp

It's all good brudda!

Damn man! You work fast...from I dunno when I'll get to the doors to It's sunny, I'm gonna mat my doors!

All I did today was four hours of troubleshooting on a BS Car Toys crap install, it turned out to be BOTH a bad radio ground (pioneer premier POS) and a bad RCA. Gotta love Car Toys. The install discipline was totally amatuer as well.

I've got pics of the single 5 channel amplifier that was supposed to be a slam dunk...and the BIRD'S NEST we found on the batery!! I'll throw those at you later when photobucket is back up from maintenance.

normally I wouldn't say anything.... but since I have a buddy whose an installer at car toys... and I know my buddy is pretty darn good I gotta stand up and say.... NOT ALL car toys installers are bad.... but the company may often do a bad job when picking their installers.

02-26-2009, 10:34 PM	#20
sqcomp Roadrunner Jr. View User's Garage Drives: 2007 Yaris S Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Back at home Posts: 2,609	There are several characteristics that explain the idea of overall sound quality as it relates to car audio: Staging, imaging, ambiance, definition, and clarity are a few important ones. You can also think of timbre and tonal accuracy. Imaging includes individual and specific locations for instrunments in the recording, they should be well defined and easily locatable. When you kick in rear fill speakers you move the stereo signal BACK, when it should be in front of you. Think of when you go to a live performance. Are you hearing the performers like you're on the stage? No. The soundstage is a plane in front of you. Ideally the soundstage should project the audio image that it is on your dash out on your hood, horizontally beyond both of the a-pillars. ...something to add to that spades? Or am I wrong about imaging? __________________ “To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.” ― Thomas Paine

02-27-2009, 03:17 AM	#22
sqcomp Roadrunner Jr. View User's Garage Drives: 2007 Yaris S Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Back at home Posts: 2,609	Oh yes. You can indeed use the rears to "raise" the front image..sort of. The better thing to do would be to improve your front stage if you're thinking about sound quality. __________________ “To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.” ― Thomas Paine

02-27-2009, 06:06 PM	#23
Arkhangel View User's Garage Drives: 2007 Yaris Sedan Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Puerto Rico Posts: 399	ok __________________ The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. --Tom Clancy

02-28-2009, 04:45 PM	#24
TinyGiant Tiny Giant Clothing View User's Garage Drives: 2008 Blazing Blue Yaris 3D LB Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Rochester, NH Posts: 3,394	i have a mtx 4 channel 400watt amp (i think its one of the ones in your pics) i'll get the model number. i think its like ts3404 or something like that if you are looking .. I am selling :) __________________ Sold the yaris... rocking an 89 vw cabriolet now :)

03-01-2009, 05:47 AM	#25
sqcomp Roadrunner Jr. View User's Garage Drives: 2007 Yaris S Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Back at home Posts: 2,609	Who is this last post meant for? __________________ “To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.” ― Thomas Paine

03-01-2009, 09:31 AM	#26
TinyGiant Tiny Giant Clothing View User's Garage Drives: 2008 Blazing Blue Yaris 3D LB Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Rochester, NH Posts: 3,394	thread starter __________________ Sold the yaris... rocking an 89 vw cabriolet now :)

03-01-2009, 01:04 PM	#27
sqcomp Roadrunner Jr. View User's Garage Drives: 2007 Yaris S Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Back at home Posts: 2,609	well then...put it in it's own thread. Not trying to be a troll or anything. __________________ “To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.” ― Thomas Paine

03-01-2009, 01:36 PM	#28
talnlnky Audio Junky Drives: 08 liftback Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Spokane, Wa Posts: 1,412	When it comes to SQ & subwoofers... My heart will always lean toward a sub with a very low Le, and the ability to fit into small ported boxes (qts of .4 or lower). Le is the main thing that determines if a sub sounds "sluggish", or "fast", the other thing is the type, and tuning of the box. A ported box tuned to 35hz or below should almost always sound the same (in terms of transient response) as a sealed box with a qtc of .707. despite what most people think, box size has very little to do with how "fast" a sub sounds. Tuning, and the speakers Le is where its at.... even the size of the woofer doesn't matter. When it comes to speakers.... the crossover is the key. Components almost always have a better suited crossover than even the most expensive co-axial designs, thus components almost always sound better. Co-axials do have one big advantage over most component installs. Co-axials have the same point of sound, so it sounds like all the sound is coming from the same place, instead of highs up high, and the mids & lows coming from the bottom of your doors. This is referred to as the "rainbow" effect, and is something that SQ judges look for. As for which brand is best... ehhh... i think pretty much all car audio companies have similar flaws or short comings in their lines. Speakers: companies often car about getting loud, and spend more R&D in the aesthetics than the performance. metallic speakers have bad break up/distortion characteristics and should only be used in subwoofers. Tweeters (usually the titanium/aluminum/mylar ones) often can be overly bright and require a lot of work in the crossover. Subs: Focus on power handling, which means a big voice coil, which means a high Le which means bad transient response (slow sound). Further, car subs are often optimized to work decent in both ported and sealed boxes.... and not play the very low notes. This isn't a bad thing though because of the small size of cars can help make up for the lack of low end extension of the sub. There are a few companies that seem to care more about making quality products than making a profit however. Unfortunately, often these companies don't last more than a few years, or are bought out and end up and are no longer the same. Physics is what matters... if you have designers with a background in physics rather than in business, than you will get a good speaker. Some speaker companies don't even use people with EE degrees or the sort, but rather just experience in audio... which is ok.... but usually not as good (its like guessing and checking on a math problem, instead of just working the damn problem in the first place). In conclusion... car audio is car audio.... 95% of the offerings are extremely similar. If you want something different, look at the DIY and home theater markets (for raw drivers)...the DIY HT market has some awesome speakers that are incredible if you can install them correctly in a car. __________________

03-02-2009, 02:51 AM	#31
sqcomp Roadrunner Jr. View User's Garage Drives: 2007 Yaris S Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Back at home Posts: 2,609	...okay. If you say so Alt. Taln, you back from across the pond? __________________ “To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.” ― Thomas Paine

03-03-2009, 03:17 AM	#33
sqcomp Roadrunner Jr. View User's Garage Drives: 2007 Yaris S Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Back at home Posts: 2,609	Since I'm the one that SO off topic... Hey Taln...don't be jealous over my midbass' mounting depth __________________ “To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.” ― Thomas Paine

03-04-2009, 03:55 AM	#35
sqcomp Roadrunner Jr. View User's Garage Drives: 2007 Yaris S Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Back at home Posts: 2,609	It's all good brudda! Damn man! You work fast...from I dunno when I'll get to the doors to It's sunny, I'm gonna mat my doors! All I did today was four hours of troubleshooting on a BS Car Toys crap install, it turned out to be BOTH a bad radio ground (pioneer premier POS) and a bad RCA. Gotta love Car Toys. The install discipline was totally amatuer as well. I've got pics of the single 5 channel amplifier that was supposed to be a slam dunk...and the BIRD'S NEST we found on the batery!! I'll throw those at you later when photobucket is back up from maintenance. __________________ “To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.” ― Thomas Paine

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