will chevy volt decimate toyota yaris and others

[slothman86]

So this is based on driving 40 miles a day only (how far does the range extender allow you to drive?)

Let's say...it extends the range 40 miles for sake of all fairness...

Good bye to long trips. 80 miles round trip? This car will be good for people who don't have to drive more than to work and back. Now you have to keep an eye on 2 meters of fuel.

but again in all fairness we have to look at all sides.
I guess you could stop every 40 miles after your charge is gone and pick up more gas.
We really need to know how efficient this gas to electric generator is how many gallons to kw. This will tell us true MPG.

It looks like this will become a conventional car anyway. How about all those people who don't own a home or live somewhere where you don't have access to a plug?
What happens if the power goes out?

There are so many reasons on why not to buy this car. It seems that the car will control your life and take away what conveniences a car was supposed to bring. If you travel less than 40 miles a day to work, You may want to look into Public Transportation or a bicycle. Not on a $40,000 GM.

Anyone have a good reason why to buy, besides the "environmental" reason?

[BailOut]

Originally Posted by slothman86

How about all those people who don't own a home or live somewhere where you don't have access to a plug?

Just like the world was not magically littered with fuel stations overnight, it will take time for the infrastructure for widespread EV use to grow. Such infrastructure will undoubtedly include pay-as-you-go meters at apartment complexes, strip malls, etc. Homeowners will likely be the early adopters due to easier access to outlets, just as we saw with the EVs in California in the late 1990s.

Originally Posted by slothman86

What happens if the power goes out?

The same logic applies to the question, "What if the trucks stop running?". Then you get no more gasoline fuel, just as happens when pipelines have issues, countries embargo each other, etc. This happens in my area from time to time because most of our gasoline and other commodities get shipped to us over the Sierra Nevada mountains from California. Even though NDOT and CalTrans have made huge leaps in the technology they employ to keep I-80 open sometimes things are just too much and they have to close it. Even when it is open doesn't mean every truck, or more accurately every truck driver, can make it over Donner Pass. When this happens some fuel stations run out of gasoline. Starbucks runs out of pastries. Grocery stores run out of some stock. Etc.

When pipelines have issues it can quickly manifest as a fuel shortage. This happened earlier this year in a corridor running from the Gulf coast of Louisiana up into parts of Iowa. For 5 days the gasoline didn't flow, and it only took 3 of those days for fist fights and gasoline thieves to break out in large numbers.

In other words, access to electricity for many of us is just as, if not more than, stable than our access to just about any other commodity, including trucked-in or piped-in gasoline.

[slothman86]

Originally Posted by BailOut

Just like the world was not magically littered with fuel stations overnight, it will take time for the infrastructure for widespread EV use to grow. Such infrastructure will undoubtedly include pay-as-you-go meters at apartment complexes, strip malls, etc. Homeowners will likely be the early adopters due to easier access to outlets, just as we saw with the EVs in California in the late 1990s.

The same logic applies to the question, "What if the trucks stop running?". Then you get no more gasoline fuel, just as happens when pipelines have issues, countries embargo each other, etc. This happens in my area from time to time because most of our gasoline and other commodities get shipped to us over the Sierra Nevada mountains from California. Even though NDOT and CalTrans have made huge leaps in the technology they employ to keep I-80 open sometimes things are just too much and they have to close it. Even when it is open doesn't mean every truck, or more accurately every truck driver, can make it over Donner Pass. When this happens some fuel stations run out of gasoline. Starbucks runs out of pastries. Grocery stores run out of some stock. Etc.

When pipelines have issues it can quickly manifest as a fuel shortage. This happened earlier this year in a corridor running from the Gulf coast of Louisiana up into parts of Iowa. For 5 days the gasoline didn't flow, and it only took 3 of those days for fist fights and gasoline thieves to break out in large numbers.

In other words, access to electricity is for many of us just as, if not more, stable than our access to just about any other commodity, including trucked-in or piped-in gasoline.

I understand the infrastructure isn't there for EVs...that's why I think it is a problem...Especially for people who don't own their own home. If those who live in apartments get this vehicle they will be at a disadvantage.

According to the NMHC, 33% of people in the US rent. Until there is some some of system to support EVs. At least part of this percentage will be excluded from buying the VOLT.

(Now most of the renters in my area are Military and they usually have new cars.)

But now consider the 66% of people who own homes. How many of those people would be in the market to buy the VOLT? How many of those drive 40 or less a day and can charge overnight?

So it takes 3 hours to charge using the 240 volt outlet and 8 hours using 120v. If I charged for an hour at a shopping complex that would only give me 5 miles of driving on 120v and 13 or 14 on 240. This would probably have some sort of cost as well. What happens when something comes up and you haven't charged your car yet? You still have to buy gasoline. Maybe if your employer would install a charge station it would reduce the risk of being stranded. But I doubt that would come without some sort of cost as well.

I can't help but think there is some sort of factor we are leaving out. That when applied to the real world will totally ground the VOLT.

So 78% of all Americans drive less than 40 miles per day. What percent of that 78% do not have the ability or convenience to charge overnight?

So basically GM's market is people who have the ability to charge overnight and that drive less than 40 miles per day and are willing to drop 40g's for a sedan.

Not to say that you can't run an extension cord from your apartment, but seriously it would suck the first time you forgot!

FOR THE FUTURE:

I would think a good idea is some sort of induction charging instead of pulling the cord out every time you had to charge for home owners(charging stations.) Which would be everyday for some people, but that's probably in the very distant future. Maybe the whole highway is one inductor like a metro rail and with the proper account you can pull electricity from it...?

The VOLT sounds like a great idea right now, but in practice I think It would be a 40K hassle. Especially since you STILL need oil changes and you STILL need to maintain the gas engine.

ref:
http://gm-volt.com/2007/12/06/how-di...miles-per-day/

[BailOut]

Originally Posted by camelll

I have not seen or heard of this story. If there was a shortage of fuel and people were fighting and stealing because of the shortage it would make it onto every news channel in Iowa. You do anything in large numbers in Iowa it is all over the news, no matter what part of the state you live in. Again I have not even heard of a single instance of this. I am not saying it did not happen but where did you get your info from?

I'm having difficulty in finding the article as it was just an RSS feed from Grist.org at the time, but I do remember that the article was not clear on exactly where the fighting was. It mentioned that the fuel shortage reached as far as Iowa, but not specifically that there was fist fighting in that State.

There are other examples of fuel shortages in the U.S., though. Here's one from September 2008 due to hurricanes Ike and Gustav that reached as far as Atlanta and Nashville, and which lasted for up to 8 days:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...092504159.html

http://www.allthatsevil.net/?p=458

[Sidicas]

Originally Posted by slothman86

So this is based on driving 40 miles a day only (how far does the range extender allow you to drive?)

Let's say...it extends the range 40 miles for sake of all fairness...

On the volt? It's 300 miles... Not only that, but the "range extender" is very easily replaceable.. You can yank it out of there and put in a hydrogen, fuel cell, or diesel range extender.. Whichever takes your fancy. All the range extender is, is a generator..

Originally Posted by slothman86

Anyone have a good reason why to buy, besides the "environmental" reason?

There's quite a few good reasons to buy, one of the more popular ones being that electric motors have ridiculous amounts of torque in them. I mean, there's not a single gas powered car out there that can really compete with the electric Tesla roadsters as far as I know. Gas powered cars have been around for ages, you'd think gas engines would have advanced to the point where they could leap the torque barriers without massive engine sizes and weight, but apparently not.

Electric cars are the next high end sports cars.. No doubt there. 0-60 in <3.7 seconds. And that is just the first generation of electric cars. Think about comparing the model-T to a modern high end sports car to see how much gas engine technology has evolved.. Then think of the Tesla roadsters as beating the doors off pretty much every gas car out there and realize that the roadsters are pretty much the model-T of electric cars. I expect to see the day where most cars on the highway can do 0-60 in less than a second with the right set of tires and advancements in electric engine tech..

[slothman86]

Originally Posted by Sidicas

On the volt? It's 300 miles... Not only that, but the "range extender" is very easily replaceable.. You can yank it out of there and put in a hydrogen, fuel cell, or diesel range extender.. Whichever takes your fancy. All the range extender is, is a generator..

There's quite a few good reasons to buy, one of the more popular ones being that electric motors have ridiculous amounts of torque in them. I mean, there's not a single gas powered car out there that can really compete with the electric Tesla roadsters as far as I know. Gas powered cars have been around for ages, you'd think gas engines would have advanced to the point where they could leap the torque barriers without massive engine sizes and weight, but apparently not.

Electric cars are the next high end sports cars.. No doubt there. 0-60 in <3.7 seconds. And that is just the first generation of electric cars. Think about comparing the model-T to a modern high end sports car to see how much gas engine technology has evolved.. Then think of the Tesla roadsters as beating the doors off pretty much every gas car out there and realize that the roadsters are pretty much the model-T of electric cars. I expect to see the day where most cars on the highway can do 0-60 in less than a second with the right set of tires and advancements in electric engine tech..

I've been trying to find out what kind of generator they used all day, where did you find that out? I even looked on the GM site...maybe I missed it? I know it was on wikipedia but the link doesn't work anymore...so

Oh well I found it and they are using a 1.4 L Motor so yes it is a generator.

So I'm guessing you have this 1.4 L that uses gas for those 300 miles. That's good and solves the getting stranded problem. It still doesn't get rid of the gas so It's a start but I think once the Plug-In Prius comes around there will really be no competition. Especially being what almost 20,000 less.