Just got a ticket for this.

[sqcomp]

I'll concede that the officer probably had something better to do...

The thought that asking you to let him search your vehicle is not out of the question. You CAN refuse. It is your right to refuse an unlawful search and seizure absolutely. However, if I rollup on you, and you've got something wrong with the vehicle or are displying some sort of sign that something might be a bit off...I'll pull you over too.

Okay, I get you pulled over, I walk up on the vehicle and start talking to you. There are certain behaviors which might give me the reason to be suspicious of the situation. Admittedly, eyelids aren't at the top of offenses...

out of curiosity, with the sound system, what exactly were the police supposed to do? Post a guard around your vehicle? Were they supposed to police your stereo behaviors? Were they supposed to make sure you didn't put stickers on your vehicle tha advertised the fact that you have a bunch of equipment in the vehicle? Were they supposed to double check the installation of the stereo so as to make sure it was unremovable? ...or did you want them to call CSI Oklahoma City in there and break out the DNA analysis and blacklights?

...After all, it is their fault your stereo was stolen. Damned police! Having to let out all the crackheads and car thieves because they aren't allowed to check in the criminal's vehicles when they pull them over for having eyelids that are illegal...

Do you peeps even realize how much crime is stopped by these tertiary stops? What exactly is wrong for the police to make stops like this? Yeah it's annoying. But if you have nothing to hide, what's the issue?

If we don't like the laws, change them! If you don't like your car being broken into, change the sentencing laws. Make it a judge dread situation. Let's execute a crackhead.

[sbergman27]

Originally Posted by sqcomp

The thought that asking you to let him search your vehicle is not out of the question. You CAN refuse. It is your right to refuse an unlawful search and seizure absolutely.

Except that most people probably don't realize that or are too intimidated to even consider their rights. Here's this authority figure telling you open your trunk, in a voice that implies that you don't have the right to refuse. But stopping just short of actually *saying* that you don't have that right. He was employing a lot of psychological techniques, including, but not limited to, the "Columbo" move I mentioned. (It's only after analyzing the incident later that I realized just how clever, or perhaps just practiced, his techniques were.)

However, if I rollup on you, and you've got something wrong with the vehicle or

You use the word "I" here. Am it to take it that you actually do this?

In my case, there was absolutely nothing wrong. My tag was fine. The patrolman *knew* it was fine. The tag was the most obvious, and flimsiest of ruses, unless we are to believe that he was just hired yesterday. Are you defending this type of abuse of authority?

There are certain behaviors which might give me the reason to be suspicious of the situation. Admittedly, eyelids aren't at the top of offenses...

My car's a black sedan like the OP's, except completely stock, with no problems at all. Don't try to confuse the two incidents.

Do you peeps even realize how much crime is stopped by these tertiary stops?

You're making the claim. The burden of responsibility for proving it is on you. But note that it is a separate question from that of the legal and ethical status of systematic intimidation of innocent people, by agents of the state, to trick them into handing over their rights.

What exactly is wrong for the police to make stops like this? Yeah it's annoying.

It's much worse than annoying. It's an effective erosion of the personal rights and privacy which were the bedrock upon which this country was founded. I suspect that citizens of most free and civilized nations could probably say the same about their countries. If convenience were my concern, I would have popped the trunk and been on down the road considerably more quickly, with less personal, internal agitation.

But if you have nothing to hide, what's the issue?

Nothing... except the very fiber of democracy. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. Your question is, in it's way, quite chilling.

I've chosen not to address your questions about the stereo thefts in order to avoid diverting the conversation from the important points and principles into relatively trivial matters. Except to say that if recovering the equipment involved these kinds of groundless searches, I would not approve.

-Steve

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759