Turbo system - Toyota Yaris Forums

ChinoCharles · 01-05-2007, 02:13 PM

In the past few months, I have been to a few speed shops with my car. At each one I have mentioned that I wanted to turbo or supercharge my car. At each one, other cars were in the shop which had received custom forced induction systems... I've seen RX-8's, Civics, 5.0's, DSM's, Chargers, Darts, Datsuns, you name it. At every shop I have been to, I was told that a custom setup could be built for my car.

You immediately think that a custom job will automatically be more expensive, but this often isn't the case for a couple of reasons.

1) Shops that specialize in high performance modifications often get prices on forced induction accessories that would make your head explode.
2) Since there are few kits on the market for the Yaris, you can often try and weasel out a deal with the shop that leaves you paying less for the kit and leaves them introducing your new custom kit for retail sale.

Also, these guys take pride in what they do. They want your car to perform and be reliable just as bad as you do. With their system, your car carries their name, and there is nothing that brings a garage down to hell faster than blowing up a car.

A speed shop will often take a more wholistic approach to forcing induction. When I was talking to Don Yuse at the Race Car Factory about a supercharged Yaris, the first thing he said was "I'll want to take your engine apart." I mean, is your internet-purchased turbo kit going to look at your piston rods and make sure they're strong enough to handle the 8-10 (or more) pounds of boost you're about to bolt on? I don't think so.

Something to think about...

Oh, and about the ECU thing, it isn't hard to crack persay. You just need a piggyback system in these cars... ie: GReddy's E-manage. They go for $300-500 or so depending on what you get, but they work wonders. It would be a good investment for a Yaris that might be making 15-20% more power than stock. It would be an absolutely necessary investment for a yaris that is sprayed/tc/sc.

The GReddy E-manage Ultimate is out now, so the original E-manage should plummet in price.

DTM_Yaris · 01-06-2007, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChinoCharles

Oh, and about the ECU thing, it isn't hard to crack persay.

It is not as easy as you think.

acrbill · 01-06-2007, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DTM_Yaris

It is not as easy as you think.

I don't think he meant crack the actual ecu. I think he means its not hard to adapt a piggyback with the ecu. The e-manage is pretty sweet since it has an internal map sensor and the ability to drive extra injectors or allow the use of larger injectors while maintaining off boost a/f mix.

Any turbo kit you go with is going to be a low boost application since the engine has pretty high compression.

DTM_Yaris · 01-06-2007, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acrbill

I don't think he meant crack the actual ecu. I think he means its not hard to adapt a piggyback with the ecu. The e-manage is pretty sweet since it has an internal map sensor and the ability to drive extra injectors or allow the use of larger injectors while maintaining off boost a/f mix.

Any turbo kit you go with is going to be a low boost application since the engine has pretty high compression.

The adaptive learning strategy in the Yaris ecu is very rough to over come with even 8 psi.
Trust me I'm working on it as we speak. Its nice to get a few WOT runs clean, but never consistant. It takes alot of time to tune this particular ecu. At least to a point where it WILL be consistant.
I've tried a new approach lately that seems to be working much better.

acrbill · 01-06-2007, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DTM_Yaris

The adaptive learning strategy in the Yaris ecu is very rough to over come with even 8 psi.
Trust me I'm working on it as we speak. Its nice to get a few WOT runs clean, but never consistant. It takes alot of time to tune this particular ecu. At least to a point where it WILL be consistant.
I've tried a new approach lately that seems to be working much better.

Put the MAF sensor on the inlet side of the turbo. Let the piggyback do all the work. Theh stock ecu shouldn't even realize that the car is no longer stock.

DTM_Yaris · 01-06-2007, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acrbill

Put the MAF sensor on the inlet side of the turbo. Let the piggyback do all the work. Theh stock ecu shouldn't even realize that the car is no longer stock.

The maf sensor is able to output over 8 volts. Thats not the problem. The problem is the voltage the ecu sees!
If it sees over 2.8 volts at "x" rpm and throttle position it will go crazy. Trust me I have done it.
But I am working around this, meaning the stock ecu will never know that it is force fed.

acrbill · 01-06-2007, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DTM_Yaris

The maf sensor is able to output over 8 volts. Thats not the problem. The problem is the voltage the ecu sees!
If it sees over 2.8 volts at "x" rpm and throttle position it will go crazy. Trust me I have done it.
But I am working around this, meaning the stock ecu will never know that it is force fed.

If the MAF sensor is on the inlet side of the turbo Its not going to have compressed air going through it so the reading of the air going into the turbo will be accurate when your not in boost. Maybe once your in boost the turbo is sucking in more air there might be an issue, but all you would need would be a voltage clamp. Thats strange that it reads 8 volts. I would have assumed that it was 5v like a MAP sensor.

spkrman · 01-06-2007, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DTM_Yaris

The maf sensor is able to output over 8 volts. Thats not the problem. The problem is the voltage the ecu sees!
If it sees over 2.8 volts at "x" rpm and throttle position it will go crazy. Trust me I have done it.
But I am working around this, meaning the stock ecu will never know that it is force fed.

details? :)

03Z33 · 01-07-2007, 01:07 AM

I'm happy to see you working on this. I'll be in the market for something like this shortly.
Regarding the MAF signal, what I usually see people do is one of the following:

1. Reprogram ECU to accept higher volage input (usually not possible on newer cars)

2. Oversize MAF housing to reduce air velocity (requires retune of ECU or piggyback to recalibrate for the new lower signal inputs)

3. Install resistor in-line between MAF and ECU on signal wire to recalibrate the maximum voltage to the ECU (this also requires recalibrating the ECU software for the different signal, or a piggyback to adjust).

4. Clamp MAF signal to max voltage ECU likes. This will usually benefit from a retune also.

5. Install any one of many piggy-back options which will adaptively do the above for you by constantly monitoring and adapting the different signals the ECU is depending on. This sometimes doesn't work well due to the adaptive nature of the stock ECU, which sometimes "undoes" the corrections the piggy-back is trying to implement.

6. Or you can always dump the MAF all together and convert to MAP, by either reprograming the ECU to accept MAP signals/voltages instead of MAF signal or by dumping the stock ECU all together and running a stand alone ECU.

01-05-2007, 02:13 PM	#1
ChinoCharles Banned Drives: LB Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: OH Posts: 7,787	In the past few months, I have been to a few speed shops with my car. At each one I have mentioned that I wanted to turbo or supercharge my car. At each one, other cars were in the shop which had received custom forced induction systems... I've seen RX-8's, Civics, 5.0's, DSM's, Chargers, Darts, Datsuns, you name it. At every shop I have been to, I was told that a custom setup could be built for my car. You immediately think that a custom job will automatically be more expensive, but this often isn't the case for a couple of reasons. 1) Shops that specialize in high performance modifications often get prices on forced induction accessories that would make your head explode. 2) Since there are few kits on the market for the Yaris, you can often try and weasel out a deal with the shop that leaves you paying less for the kit and leaves them introducing your new custom kit for retail sale. Also, these guys take pride in what they do. They want your car to perform and be reliable just as bad as you do. With their system, your car carries their name, and there is nothing that brings a garage down to hell faster than blowing up a car. A speed shop will often take a more wholistic approach to forcing induction. When I was talking to Don Yuse at the Race Car Factory about a supercharged Yaris, the first thing he said was "I'll want to take your engine apart." I mean, is your internet-purchased turbo kit going to look at your piston rods and make sure they're strong enough to handle the 8-10 (or more) pounds of boost you're about to bolt on? I don't think so. Something to think about... Oh, and about the ECU thing, it isn't hard to crack persay. You just need a piggyback system in these cars... ie: GReddy's E-manage. They go for $300-500 or so depending on what you get, but they work wonders. It would be a good investment for a Yaris that might be making 15-20% more power than stock. It would be an absolutely necessary investment for a yaris that is sprayed/tc/sc. The GReddy E-manage Ultimate is out now, so the original E-manage should plummet in price. Last edited by ChinoCharles; 01-05-2007 at 02:30 PM.

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01-07-2007, 01:07 AM	#9
03Z33 View User's Garage Drives: TCR10 Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: SoCal Posts: 1,132	I'm happy to see you working on this. I'll be in the market for something like this shortly. Regarding the MAF signal, what I usually see people do is one of the following: 1. Reprogram ECU to accept higher volage input (usually not possible on newer cars) 2. Oversize MAF housing to reduce air velocity (requires retune of ECU or piggyback to recalibrate for the new lower signal inputs) 3. Install resistor in-line between MAF and ECU on signal wire to recalibrate the maximum voltage to the ECU (this also requires recalibrating the ECU software for the different signal, or a piggyback to adjust). 4. Clamp MAF signal to max voltage ECU likes. This will usually benefit from a retune also. 5. Install any one of many piggy-back options which will adaptively do the above for you by constantly monitoring and adapting the different signals the ECU is depending on. This sometimes doesn't work well due to the adaptive nature of the stock ECU, which sometimes "undoes" the corrections the piggy-back is trying to implement. 6. Or you can always dump the MAF all together and convert to MAP, by either reprograming the ECU to accept MAP signals/voltages instead of MAF signal or by dumping the stock ECU all together and running a stand alone ECU.