Fuel Prices

[Jitazuki]

Originally Posted by why?

I've seen some of those crazy British and European taxes. I don't think I could bring myself to own a car if I lived over there, I'd have to live and work near a rail, or in a city with a good metro system.

Of course the Brits are starting to go in the right direction to, while we go in the opposite. You'd think our leaders would take a look at what they've been doing, and learn from their mistakes, but nope!

We aren't technically going in to the right direction. Everything is simply taxed heavily because the UK Government has a huge multi-billion pound deficit that they are trying to pay off.

Originally Posted by why?

All of Europe and most of the rest of the world gas is taxed to death. And then of course the fools try and tell you how horrible the product is and we shouldn't use it, like they are doing with cigarettes.

You think these people would know how to think, and realize that if no one is buying it no one would be paying the absurd taxes.

I completely agree. They sell us things and say "Oh you're buying this and this is very bad for you and the environment."

Why sell it us then? Taxing it heavily is supposed to make us use it less apparently. But it's just another moneymaker. However you see it, there are people that need to use their cars for everyday use, even treehuggers drive cars.

Originally Posted by KrazyDawg

But in return, you have universal health care and mass public transit. The cars in Europe also have higher MPG.

If you lived here you'd know the problems with the overcrowded and extremely poor public transport systems. I went to college for 2 years using the same bus service, which involves me changing the bus twice with the journey time of around 1 and a half hours. You wouldn't believe me if I'd tell you it was only 7 miles away.

With the new Conservative Government looking to privatize the current health care, it will not be as "universal" as you think it is.

[KrazyDawg]

Originally Posted by Jitazuki

If you lived here you'd know the problems with the overcrowded and extremely poor public transport systems. I went to college for 2 years using the same bus service, which involves me changing the bus twice with the journey time of around 1 and a half hours. You wouldn't believe me if I'd tell you it was only 7 miles away.

San Francisco's MUNI has bus lines that take the same amount of time for a city that's only 7x7 miles. The "train" service can take even longer but it's a light rail/underground "train." Besides the schedule, MUNI has its own issues with unions not wanting to work and expecting pay raises and bonuses all the time.

[why?]

Originally Posted by mryaris

lots of meaningless things.

Just comparing numbers is meaningless. And your average salaries are meaningless as well.

Originally Posted by fmicle

It's funny to me how people complain about $2.50 a gallon for gas. Let's see, a Grande something at Starbucks would cost about $4 , that's 16 oz. It's 8 times that in a gallon, so that makes $32 for a gallon of boiling water run through some ground beans... I haven't heard anyone complaining about that or blaming the government...

Why do people think they are entitled to cheap gas? Ferrchrissake, gas is cheaper than most drinking water at Safeway!!!

We are entitled to low taxes. When Starbucks pays more money in taxes than it earns in profits, I am sure people will complain.

Not to mention crappy coffee and bottled water are luxury items. No one would consider gas a luxury item, for 99% of the USA, it is a necessity.

Originally Posted by Jitazuki

We aren't technically going in to the right direction. Everything is simply taxed heavily because the UK Government has a huge multi-billion pound deficit that they are trying to pay off.

I completely agree. They sell us things and say "Oh you're buying this and this is very bad for you and the environment."

Why sell it us then? Taxing it heavily is supposed to make us use it less apparently. But it's just another moneymaker. However you see it, there are people that need to use their cars for everyday use, even treehuggers drive cars.

If you lived here you'd know the problems with the overcrowded and extremely poor public transport systems. I went to college for 2 years using the same bus service, which involves me changing the bus twice with the journey time of around 1 and a half hours. You wouldn't believe me if I'd tell you it was only 7 miles away.

With the new Conservative Government looking to privatize the current health care, it will not be as "universal" as you think it is.

Yes, the Brits have a large deficit, but I mean politically. They are going away from socialism and communism, and realizing free markets are better. The USA has a bunch of people willfully charging in the other proven failure direction.

[mryaris]

Originally Posted by why?

Just comparing numbers is meaningless. And your average salaries are meaningless as well.

Hardly meaningless. It allows you to compare what people were paying for gas (or anything else for that matter) back in the day to the present in relation to income. When you crunch the numbers you can see that we really aren't paying much more today at $2.73/gallon than people were back in 1960 when gas was $0.31/gallon.

This is essentially how the CPI is calculated and it is a very good economic indicator, so again.....hardly meaningless.

There are so many people complaining about how much gas is and that it is overtaxed......you can see that taxes are only 15% of the price of a gallon of gas. Taxed, yes. But hardly overtaxed. When that number approaches 50% (like most EU countries) then people can bitch and moan about high taxes that pay for meaningless social programs that don't work.

Here's another way to quantify it....assume you get 20MPG and drive 15,000 miles per year. You would use 750 gallons of gas per year.

In 1960, 750 gallons would cost you $232.50 (750 x $0.31) and in 2010 it would cost you $2047.50 (750 x $2.73). Now you can make a ratio of your yearly gas bill in relation to what you earn.


Median Income:

1960: $232.50/$5600= 4.15%
2010: $2047.50/$52,029= 3.93%

Minimum Wage:

1960: $232.50/$2080= 11.2%
2010: $2047.50/$15,080= 13.6%


Looks like a wash to me. So.....we are paying pretty much the same for gas today as people did 50 years ago.

You can also use an inflation caculator to find out what something today would cost 50 years ago and vice versa. Try this one: http://www.usinflationcalculator.com and see for yourself.

[KrazyDawg]

Originally Posted by Jitazuki

With the new Conservative Government looking to privatize the current health care, it will not be as "universal" as you think it is.

People are willing to travel from the US to Mexico for health care because it's better and cheaper. Article: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...al_tourism.DTL

[why?]

Originally Posted by Altitude

Please stop putting this forth as fact. It's just someone playing fast and loose with the numbers to get the free-marketeers all lathered up.

Nevermind the most obvious fact that corporations don't pay taxes, we do, through the cost of the service or goods they provide. No company would last long if it didn't pass these types of expenses onto the consumer.

it is the same thing, duh. In the end the product costs the consumer more. And it is a fact. Guess what? Most oil companies are publicly traded, so the real info is all out there.

While they were recording record profits last year, they were also writing checks to Uncle Sam to the tune of $100.7 billion -- two and a half times what they made in net profit. In fact, previous Tax Foundation research found that from 1977 to 2004, federal and state governments extracted $397 billion by taxing the profits of the largest oil companies and an additional $1.1 trillion in taxes at the pump. In today's dollars, that's $2.2 trillion.

So again, use whatever term you want to. Exxon pays more money in taxes than they earn in income.

Originally Posted by KrazyDawg

People are willing to travel from the US to Mexico for health care because it's better and cheaper. Article: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...al_tourism.DTL

Um, you got half of that right. They go to other countries because it is cheaper.

The rest of the planet comes to the USA because it is the best, by far. US medical tourism, from wikipedia.

So they come here for people with brains, and Americans go other places for cheap.

Also note Companies come here to sell medical necessities for profit, while selling the same products in foreign markets at a substantial discount.

We could fix a lot of the US cost problem by making it harder for idiots to sue anyone they please. Tort Reform in TX and CA.