Just picked this up - Prius C

[bronsin]

So the Prius was $4000 more than a Yaris. (and of course, you could have bought a cheaper model of Yaris just like you bought a cheaper model of Prius...)

If the Prius gets 50 mpg and the Yaris gets 35 mpg over 100,000 miles @ $3.50 a gallon you will save $2450.

Of course gas could go UP. You could drive it more than 100,000 miles.

The batteries dont give trouble. The Prius has proven to be very reliable.

[tk1971]

Originally Posted by bronsin

So the Prius was $4000 more than a Yaris. (and of course, you could have bought a cheaper model of Yaris just like you bought a cheaper model of Prius...)

If the Prius gets 50 mpg and the Yaris gets 35 mpg over 100,000 miles @ $3.50 a gallon you will save $2450.

Of course gas could go UP. You could drive it more than 100,000 miles.

The batteries dont give trouble. The Prius has proven to be very reliable.

The Yaris quote back in early 2011 was for a 5spd 5-door hatch (apparently very difficult, if not impossible to find - so I believe they just made up a high number to discourage me from looking for that exact configuration). After getting off the phone with them (the only dealer to call me back - I had reached out to several for this specific configuration), I went to my local CarMax and got a used 08 Base Yaris 3-door / 5-spd for about $12.8k out-the-door with 17k miles. Not a great deal by any means, but better than new for sure. I'm still enjoying my Yaris and have already hit "gravy" over whatever cash (<$3k) I shelled out for it minus my trade in. When it's all said and done, my Yaris is the best <$3k car I've ever owned. Filled up today and calculated 41.5mpg even with occasional A/C use.

BTW, my wife is really enjoying her Prius C. She can't drive stick, so the CVT works for her. I don't get what all the complaints are about on this car. The premise is to put a proven but slightly scaled down Prius drive-train into a less Prius-looking Econo-box body in order to keep the MSRP of the base model a hair under $19k. This is what we got for that MSRP that I don't see in other "Base" cars: Bluetooth/CD/MP3/USB/Aux input, projection halogen headlights, LED tail lights, tilt/telescopic steering wheel, digital instrumentation (speedo, fuel, etc), steering wheel mounted controls for the radio/bluetooth, automatic climate control, keyless entry, power door/windows, side mirrors with integrated signal indicators, stability/traction control, Vehicle Proximity Notification System (VPNS), hill assist, ABS, and the 3.5" TFT multi-information display.

I believe the critics of this car are short sighted and don't see what's really going on. Toyota set the bar very high for their latest high-tech econo-box. In a couple of years, when they really start churning out the C, it'll be a better deal than it is now (currently MSRP only). I believe by then, the econo-box expectation will change and it'll be everyone else who will have to "catch up".

[edmscan]

Originally Posted by tk1971

I believe the critics of this car are short sighted and don't see what's really going on.

One of my friends has a Prius C .. and maybe tomorrow I can drive in it. I really like the car and the gas mileage is amazing. I know that he would never let me drive it .. but driving in it is fun. It is a nice car ..

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by tk1971

The Yaris quote back in early 2011 was for a 5spd 5-door hatch (apparently very difficult, if not impossible to find - so I believe they just made up a high number to discourage me from looking for that exact configuration). After getting off the phone with them (the only dealer to call me back - I had reached out to several for this specific configuration), I went to my local CarMax and got a used 08 Base Yaris 3-door / 5-spd for about $12.8k out-the-door with 17k miles. Not a great deal by any means, but better than new for sure. I'm still enjoying my Yaris and have already hit "gravy" over whatever cash (<$3k) I shelled out for it minus my trade in. When it's all said and done, my Yaris is the best <$3k car I've ever owned. Filled up today and calculated 41.5mpg even with occasional A/C use.

BTW, my wife is really enjoying her Prius C. She can't drive stick, so the CVT works for her. I don't get what all the complaints are about on this car. The premise is to put a proven but slightly scaled down Prius drive-train into a less Prius-looking Econo-box body in order to keep the MSRP of the base model a hair under $19k. This is what we got for that MSRP that I don't see in other "Base" cars: Bluetooth/CD/MP3/USB/Aux input, projection halogen headlights, LED tail lights, tilt/telescopic steering wheel, digital instrumentation (speedo, fuel, etc), steering wheel mounted controls for the radio/bluetooth, automatic climate control, keyless entry, power door/windows, side mirrors with integrated signal indicators, stability/traction control, Vehicle Proximity Notification System (VPNS), hill assist, ABS, and the 3.5" TFT multi-information display.

I believe the critics of this car are short sighted and don't see what's really going on. Toyota set the bar very high for their latest high-tech econo-box. In a couple of years, when they really start churning out the C, it'll be a better deal than it is now (currently MSRP only). I believe by then, the econo-box expectation will change and it'll be everyone else who will have to "catch up".

Thank you for including the base Prius c features in your post. This is a much more visually compact way to view the information than the way it is organized on the Toyota website.

[bronsin]

Originally Posted by tk1971

The Yaris quote back in early 2011 was for a 5spd 5-door hatch (apparently very difficult, if not impossible to find - so I believe they just made up a high number to discourage me from looking for that exact configuration). After getting off the phone with them (the only dealer to call me back - I had reached out to several for this specific configuration), I went to my local CarMax and got a used 08 Base Yaris 3-door / 5-spd for about $12.8k out-the-door with 17k miles. Not a great deal by any means, but better than new for sure. I'm still enjoying my Yaris and have already hit "gravy" over whatever cash (<$3k) I shelled out for it minus my trade in. When it's all said and done, my Yaris is the best <$3k car I've ever owned. Filled up today and calculated 41.5mpg even with occasional A/C use.

BTW, my wife is really enjoying her Prius C. She can't drive stick, so the CVT works for her. I don't get what all the complaints are about on this car. The premise is to put a proven but slightly scaled down Prius drive-train into a less Prius-looking Econo-box body in order to keep the MSRP of the base model a hair under $19k. This is what we got for that MSRP that I don't see in other "Base" cars: Bluetooth/CD/MP3/USB/Aux input, projection halogen headlights, LED tail lights, tilt/telescopic steering wheel, digital instrumentation (speedo, fuel, etc), steering wheel mounted controls for the radio/bluetooth, automatic climate control, keyless entry, power door/windows, side mirrors with integrated signal indicators, stability/traction control, Vehicle Proximity Notification System (VPNS), hill assist, ABS, and the 3.5" TFT multi-information display.

I believe the critics of this car are short sighted and don't see what's really going on. Toyota set the bar very high for their latest high-tech econo-box. In a couple of years, when they really start churning out the C, it'll be a better deal than it is now (currently MSRP only). I believe by then, the econo-box expectation will change and it'll be everyone else who will have to "catch up".

Im not a critic. It is what it is. With me its all about bottom line. Right now the Prius C is the loser when it comes to a Yaris in that department.

Its not in my interest for cars like the Prius to do well. I dont want Toyota to make cars I dont want to buy. I want Prius's to sit on the dealers lot and rust. I want Toyota to lose BILLIONS of dollars making the PRius. So I have to tell my side of it. I need as many people who think like me as possible.

I must crush the Prius anyway I can.

I want a small car like maybe the iQ that weighs less than 1800 pounds and has a 1 liter or less GASOLINE engine, costs less than $15000 and gets 50 MPG. I could live without airbags, crush zones, ABS, traction control, and a lot of other things I cant think of. I bet without those things like car would be <$12000.

Its nothing personal.

If gas goes over $5 you will do very well with the Prius. You will have made a wise choice. We need to drive cars that get better than 50mpg on a large scale and bring the oil companies and the hostile foriegn countries that hate us to their knees. The Prius does that.

Unfortunately it just give the money we would give to our enemies to Toyota.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by bronsin

Im not a critic. It is what it is. With me its all about bottom line. Right now the Prius C is the loser when it comes to a Yaris in that department.

Its not in my interest for cars like the Prius to do well. I dont want Toyota to make cars I dont want to buy. I want Prius's to sit on the dealers lot and rust. I want Toyota to lose BILLIONS of dollars making the PRius. So I have to tell my side of it. I need as many people who think like me as possible.

I must crush the Prius anyway I can.

I want a small car like maybe the iQ that weighs less than 1800 pounds and has a 1 liter or less GASOLINE engine, costs less than $15000 and gets 50 MPG. I could live without airbags, crush zones, ABS, traction control, and a lot of other things I cant think of. I bet without those things like car would be <$12000.

Its nothing personal.

If gas goes over $5 you will do very well with the Prius. You will have made a wise choice. We need to drive cars that get better than 50mpg on a large scale and bring the oil companies and the hostile foriegn countries that hate us to their knees. The Prius does that.

Unfortunately it just give the money we would give to our enemies to Toyota.

I agree with you re the Prius v, the 3rd Generation Prius ('standard Prius'), and the Prius Plug in. All three of those models are too big and too expensive. ....and wishing they would rot on the lots (as opposed to some sort of government intervention...I'm against the verbal strong arm tactics employed by the mayors of Chicago, San Francisco, Boston, and Philadelphia and intend to not generate any sales tax revenue for those cities while those mayors are still in office) is the right attitude. I'm a fiscally conservative, socially liberal, straight agnostic libertarian. I think the Chick-Fil-A approach to business is wrong, but at least they are honest about their beliefs and I believe they have a right to exist in any market and fall flat on their face, or not....I just wish customers would demand they stop their religiosity and stop buying ANY of their products if they don't stop the religiosity, AS I WISH CUSTOMERS would stop buying THOSE 3 PRIUS models (just as you do) so they would rot on the lots and Toyota would stop making THOSE 3 MODELS (certainly not ALL models....I wouldn't mind if Chick-Fil-A went out of business but I don't want Toyota to go out of business).

But is the c really a Prius? I think it is only in the U.S. (or maybe just North America) that it is called a Prius.......and one KNOWS that this is predominantly to cater to affluent or aspiring left wing people who glom onto the words Prius, Apple, etc. In Europe it is called the Yaris Hybrid and in Japan it is called the Aqua...........OOPS -- decided to do more research while in the middle of writing this. I was previously under the impression that the Priuc C, the (Japan) Aqua, and the (Europe) Yaris Hybrid were all the same world platform, with slight variations.

However, I just found an article that seems to contradict this....see the elp.com article: "PRODUCT EYE: Toyota forsakes Prius C for Yaris hybrid". This seems to say that the Prius C and the Aqua are the same, but that the Yaris Hybrid is smaller. I found this article quite interesting. It goes into, I think, interesting detail about the flexibility of the Yaris plant in France --- 62 different variants with 80 percent of the parts common to all models -- and also the extra training staff members got specific to assembly of the Yaris Hybrid.

I was previously going to conclude that you're right about the three larger Prius models, but wrong about the Prius c. HOWEVER, after reading this article and knowing we PROBABLY COULD HAVE HAD THE YARIS HYBRID IN THE U.S....I reluctantly state that I MIGHT EVENTUALLY agree with you about the C. It might seem silly to state this (because I'll be INCLUDING an EXCLUDED factor), but when it comes time to weigh a new Yaris against a new Prius C I'll put 'but we could have had the smaller Yaris Hybrid' as a con against the Prius C.

I agree with your 'live without it to make it cheaper' mantra. My car does not have ABS, nor traction control, and I could live without the airbags and probably some of the other things you stated you couldn't think of. I sat in a iQ at an auto show and it was too small for my taste. I wouldn't mind though if a smaller engine with less power was a U.S. spec choice for the Yaris, as long as it got better gas mileage than the current U.S. spec offering.

[tk1971]

Originally Posted by bronsin

Im not a critic. It is what it is. With me its all about bottom line. Right now the Prius C is the loser when it comes to a Yaris in that department.

Its not in my interest for cars like the Prius to do well. I dont want Toyota to make cars I dont want to buy. I want Prius's to sit on the dealers lot and rust. I want Toyota to lose BILLIONS of dollars making the PRius. So I have to tell my side of it. I need as many people who think like me as possible.

I must crush the Prius anyway I can.

I want a small car like maybe the iQ that weighs less than 1800 pounds and has a 1 liter or less GASOLINE engine, costs less than $15000 and gets 50 MPG. I could live without airbags, crush zones, ABS, traction control, and a lot of other things I cant think of. I bet without those things like car would be <$12000.

Its nothing personal.

If gas goes over $5 you will do very well with the Prius. You will have made a wise choice. We need to drive cars that get better than 50mpg on a large scale and bring the oil companies and the hostile foriegn countries that hate us to their knees. The Prius does that.

Unfortunately it just give the money we would give to our enemies to Toyota.

Wow... tell us how you really feel.

Personally, I think the C is more like a Yaris than a Prius (as stated by others), so it's exempt from all the Prius hate.

My first car was an 1981 Datsun 210 SL that weighed about 2,000 lbs, had 87 HP, and got 47 MPG in the real world. I'd get another one in an instant if available new, but, as you know, our Government will never roll back their safety requirements. I'm afraid the auto industry will just keep tacking on safety features (more weight, and more things to fail) and increasing the prices of these basic cars.

Supply and demand at work: Look at the 2010 Civic. Honda tried to pull a fast one (cheapen the car and kept the price point about the same) and customers ran from it. 2012 (only 2 years later) an all new design comes out more true to customers expectations.

Unfortunately, there is apparently a huge demand for the Prius (regular one), which means there are a lot of young (or young at heart) people riding the popularity contest wave to drive a car that makes "car" people dead inside.

[tooter]

Just a side comment about your avatar, tk...

Did you ever think that a window crank would ever become something to actually be proud of?

I feel exactly the same way about my cranks and regard myself as being lucky to have gotten them before they disappear altogether...

...as they're a symbol of simple practical reliable mechanical functionality.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by tooter

Just a side comment about your avatar, tk...

Did you ever think that a window crank would ever become something to actually be proud of?

I feel exactly the same way about my cranks and regard myself as being lucky to have gotten them before they disappear altogether...

...as they're a symbol of simple practical reliable mechanical functionality.

...."disappear"........then...Aha! Light bulb! Will all of the needed part numbers for 2012 Model Year hand crank operation for the driver side door on a 3-Door Liftback be open for purchase by a single consumer?...if so...Will future year (3rd generation but AFTER hand crank windows have disappeared) driver side door interior/'innards' accept all of the 'needed for hand crank operation' part numbers?....if not...Could the inside of the door be modified to make this a reality without huge expense? Is all of this unknowable until after the hand crank windows disappear? Are these CTScott only questions?

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by nookandcrannycar

...."disappear"........then...Aha! Light bulb! Will all of the needed part numbers for 2012 Model Year hand crank operation for the driver side door on a 3-Door Liftback be open for purchase by a single consumer?...if so...Will future year (3rd generation but AFTER hand crank windows have disappeared) driver side door interior/'innards' accept all of the 'needed for hand crank operation' part numbers?....if not...Could the inside of the door be modified to make this a reality without huge expense? Is all of this unknowable until after the hand crank windows disappear? Are these CTScott only questions?

Tooter.......do you know the answer to any of these questions or do you think they are likely CTScott only questions?

[CTScott]

Originally Posted by nookandcrannycar

...."disappear"........then...Aha! Light bulb! Will all of the needed part numbers for 2012 Model Year hand crank operation for the driver side door on a 3-Door Liftback be open for purchase by a single consumer?...if so...Will future year (3rd generation but AFTER hand crank windows have disappeared) driver side door interior/'innards' accept all of the 'needed for hand crank operation' part numbers?....if not...Could the inside of the door be modified to make this a reality without huge expense? Is all of this unknowable until after the hand crank windows disappear? Are these CTScott only questions?

Embrace the future (err, present or perhaps past). Power windows have been around since the 1940 Packard and are a wonderful addition to the automobile. I have had Japanese vehicles with over 140,000 miles on them with all of the original power window hardware still working perfectly. My new Crashy #2 has manual windows and I will soon be switching them to power.

To actually answer your question - Going in the opposite direction from power to crank means changing the window regulator assembly. If the vehicle is not offered with a manual one it would mean adapting a manual one from a different or older vehicle to work.

[tk1971]

Originally Posted by tooter

Just a side comment about your avatar, tk...

Did you ever think that a window crank would ever become something to actually be proud of?

I feel exactly the same way about my cranks and regard myself as being lucky to have gotten them before they disappear altogether...

...as they're a symbol of simple practical reliable mechanical functionality.

The cranks in my 210 were original to the car, dirty and sun faded, but they were perfectly functional when I donated that car to the Salvation Army at 395,000 miles.

Yep, I'm proud to own a modern car with window cranks. I also want my kids to remember their dad had a car with window cranks.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by tk1971

The cranks in my 210 were original to the car, dirty and sun faded, but they were perfectly functional when I donated that car to the Salvation Army at 395,000 miles.

Yep, I'm proud to own a modern car with window cranks. I also want my kids to remember their dad had a car with window cranks.

[edmscan]

I don't care what anyone says (I am not a car guy .. so I can just plead ignorance) .... if I had the money I would buy a Prius C. It is a great car .. and the mileage is from what I have seen, better than the Yaris. So .. really I think that you cannot go wrong.

However .. I don't like the other prius' ... they are just funny looking and much bigger than I would like.

I do 90% of my driving in the city .. and it is here where the Prius C shines. A friend of mine has one .. and in the city, it really shines.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by edmscan

I don't care what anyone says (I am not a car guy .. so I can just plead ignorance) .... if I had the money I would buy a Prius C. It is a great car .. and the mileage is from what I have seen, better than the Yaris. So .. really I think that you cannot go wrong.

However .. I don't like the other prius' ... they are just funny looking and much bigger than I would like.

I do 90% of my driving in the city .. and it is here where the Prius C shines. A friend of mine has one .. and in the city, it really shines.

Re your middle paragraph.....my sentiments exactly.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by bronsin

Im not a critic. It is what it is. With me its all about bottom line. Right now the Prius C is the loser when it comes to a Yaris in that department.

Its not in my interest for cars like the Prius to do well. I dont want Toyota to make cars I dont want to buy. I want Prius's to sit on the dealers lot and rust. I want Toyota to lose BILLIONS of dollars making the PRius. So I have to tell my side of it. I need as many people who think like me as possible.

I must crush the Prius anyway I can.

I want a small car like maybe the iQ that weighs less than 1800 pounds and has a 1 liter or less GASOLINE engine, costs less than $15000 and gets 50 MPG. I could live without airbags, crush zones, ABS, traction control, and a lot of other things I cant think of. I bet without those things like car would be <$12000.

Its nothing personal.

If gas goes over $5 you will do very well with the Prius. You will have made a wise choice. We need to drive cars that get better than 50mpg on a large scale and bring the oil companies and the hostile foriegn countries that hate us to their knees. The Prius does that.

Unfortunately it just give the money we would give to our enemies to Toyota.

I was just reading my reply to this post (from yesterday) and it dawned on me -- Bronsin writes "With me it's all about the bottom line" -- Then why did he get an automatic?

[tooter]

Originally Posted by nookandcrannycar

I was just reading my reply to this post (from yesterday) and it dawned on me -- Bronsin writes "With me it's all about the bottom line" -- Then why did he get an automatic?

Sometimes it's all that's available...

There were only three in the whole state of California when I bought mine. In the evening, the location of one was disclosed to me and I drove 50 miles to be there first thing the next morning when they opened with the cash in hand to immediately buy it on the spot. It not only had hand crank windows, but used a real key to open the doors and the hatch.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by tooter

Sometimes it's all that's available...

There were only three in the whole state of California when I bought mine. In the evening, the location of one was disclosed to me and I drove 50 miles to be there first thing the next morning when they opened with the cash in hand to immediately buy it on the spot. It not only had hand crank windows, but used a real key to open the doors and the hatch.

I know. I decided my previous car only had about 500 more safe miles left (steering rack) when I was on a trip and headed to the Basketball Hall of Fame in Springfield. MA. I plopped myself down in Chicopee, MA and started a search for my Yaris . I searched every dealer in the entire Northeast region of the U.S. and only found five 5 speed manual liftbacks. I ranked them in order of desirability. #1 was in Cambridge, MA near the Harvard campus. I paid a visit to the dealership and they had lied....the car was still out at sea on a boat! My #2 choice was in Rhode Island and I immediately drove there and bought my Yaris.

If a person only has one vehicle, then waiting or not is more likely a front burner issue. Bronsin has a Corvette and a motorcycle. I've ridden in a car during an East Coast winter, but I've never tried to drive in one. Perhaps he wanted an automatic because it is safer to drive an automatic during an East Coast winter? Bronsin?