Aerodynamics of Toyota offered Spoilers

[Kaotic Lazagna]

namer, are you talking about the technical differences between a spoiler and a wing? I think most people just call wings spoilers. lol

[xnamerxx]

hahaha maybe.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Originally Posted by xnamerxx

hahaha maybe.

[fnkngrv]

Originally Posted by Kaotic Lazagna

namer, are you talking about the technical differences between a spoiler and a wing? I think most people just call wings spoilers. lol

That is a common association and misconception. AFAIK when you go to look at valuation of a vehicle it is listed a spoiler as well as when you do the "build your owner" on a manufacturer's site. This is how they are officially listed by the Land Speed staff here which has attempted to bring their rules in alignment with the SCTA and ECTA:

Spoiler
A device on the upper portion of the body for the purpose of spoiling lift.

as opposed to a wing:

Wing:
A special class of aerodynamic effect device intended to provide down force.

I am not an aerodynamic engineer therefore I can't argue or debate the nuances between the two devices. I only know that Toyota calls it a Spoiler as well as NADA, etc when you look it up. I would need to get general direction from Toyota themselves on whether the spoiler that is OEM is specifically and officially merely cosmetic or whether or not their definition is truly as a Spoiler or Wing. The main driving factor for this is that according to an engineering site that I was researching on had this to say about the differences:

Basically, what Bernoulli's principle says, for a physics refresher, is that fluid moving at higher rates of speed create less pressure than fluids moving at slower speeds, and if you have to move an equal amount of air around each side, you can make the distance longer on one side to impart a force. In the case of an airplane, a wing has the longer side of the air foil on top, to create low pressure on top of the wing and high pressure underneath it, which gives the plane enough lift above certain speeds to fly. On a car, you can use a wing the exact same way for the opposite effect. Flip the wing over so that the longer section is on the bottom, then you create a low pressure section on the bottom side of the wing, and a high pressure area on top. This will create downforce on the rear of the car, pushing the rear of the car into the ground. This is more complicated, but ultimately more effective as a wing creates less drag than a spoiler. Basically, all things being equal, if you put a spoiler and a wing on 2 identical cars, set for the same amount of downforce, the wing would have less drag, which results in quicker acceleration and a higher eventual top speed, however minor these numbers might be (as little as .2mph, or as much as 10mph, depending on how aggressive the wing/spoiler are.)

This being said then the lip spoiler that is sold elsewhere in the world would be just that, a spoiler as opposed to what they offer with the S kit and the Thai Vios equivalent which in turn would actually be a wing per Bernoulli's principle since the underside of the device is shorter that the top. This would mean that Toyota's official designation of a "Spoiler" would be wrong by technical definition. This all may be a moot point dependant upon what they would allow me for devices since the car came from production with a Spoiler/Wing.

This is making my head hurt.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Originally Posted by fnkngrv

That is a common association and misconception. AFAIK when you go to look at valuation of a vehicle it is listed a spoiler as well as when you do the "build your owner" on a manufacturer's site. This is how they are officially listed by the Land Speed staff here which has attempted to bring their rules in alignment with the SCTA and ECTA:

Spoiler
A device on the upper portion of the body for the purpose of spoiling lift.

as opposed to a wing:

Wing:
A special class of aerodynamic effect device intended to provide down force.

I am not an aerodynamic engineer therefore I can't argue or debate the nuances between the two devices. I only know that Toyota calls it a Spoiler as well as NADA, etc when you look it up. I would need to get general direction from Toyota themselves on whether the spoiler that is OEM is specifically and officially merely cosmetic or whether or not their definition is truly as a Spoiler or Wing. The main driving factor for this is that according to an engineering site that I was researching on had this to say about the differences:

Basically, what Bernoulli's principle says, for a physics refresher, is that fluid moving at higher rates of speed create less pressure than fluids moving at slower speeds, and if you have to move an equal amount of air around each side, you can make the distance longer on one side to impart a force. In the case of an airplane, a wing has the longer side of the air foil on top, to create low pressure on top of the wing and high pressure underneath it, which gives the plane enough lift above certain speeds to fly. On a car, you can use a wing the exact same way for the opposite effect. Flip the wing over so that the longer section is on the bottom, then you create a low pressure section on the bottom side of the wing, and a high pressure area on top. This will create downforce on the rear of the car, pushing the rear of the car into the ground. This is more complicated, but ultimately more effective as a wing creates less drag than a spoiler. Basically, all things being equal, if you put a spoiler and a wing on 2 identical cars, set for the same amount of downforce, the wing would have less drag, which results in quicker acceleration and a higher eventual top speed, however minor these numbers might be (as little as .2mph, or as much as 10mph, depending on how aggressive the wing/spoiler are.)

This being said then the lip spoiler that is sold elsewhere in the world would be just that, a spoiler as opposed to what they offer with the S kit and the Thai Vios equivalent which in turn would actually be a wing per Bernoulli's principle since the underside of the device is shorter that the top. This would mean that Toyota's official designation of a "Spoiler" would be wrong by technical definition. This all may be a moot point dependant upon what they would allow me for devices since the car came from production with a Spoiler/Wing.

This is making my head hurt.

lol, exactly, that's why I just group "wings" with "spoilers." I don't think there are many people who actually distinguish one from the other.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Since we're talking about spoilers and wings, lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6_MUycoPPs