25 Car With Mpg Good As Hybrids

[jack black]

Originally Posted by roxy1

I took a trip to Ann Arbor and back yesterday.

cargo: Me (220 lbs), Dad (185 lbs), 2 dogs (90 lbs), misc (30 lbs)

182 miles each way

going: U.S. highway-45-62 mph with a scattering of small towns to drive through. moderately hilly.

return: I-94 most of the way. 65-75 mph for about 80% of the return. the rest rural.

364 miles driven. 8.12 gallons used. 44.8 mpg's. dash computer showed 45.1, so pretty accurate.

the interstate on the way home drug it down, as the mpg reading going there was 48.8.

hyvrid schmybrid!!

You must be a very accomplished hypermiller.
Yaris real life MPG is mid to high 30's:
http://www.fuelly.com/car/toyota/yaris

On the other hand, Prius averages 47 MPG in real life:
http://www.fuelly.com/car/toyota/prius

If you drove a Prius with your hypermilling skills, you would get 60 MPG easily.

I'm not even going to get to the argument that Yaris is subcompact while Prius is midsize.

[roxy1]

Originally Posted by jack black

You must be a very accomplished hypermiller.
Yaris real life MPG is mid to high 30's:
http://www.fuelly.com/car/toyota/yaris

On the other hand, Prius averages 47 MPG in real life:
http://www.fuelly.com/car/toyota/prius

If you drove a Prius with your hypermilling skills, you would get 60 MPG easily.

I'm not even going to get to the argument that Yaris is subcompact while Prius is midsize.

other than not gunning away from stops and not keeping on the gas all the way to the lights, i do not do any hypermiling. i literally just drove there and drove back. there wasn't even much stopiing involved on either leg.

ive seen plenty of others get in the mid 40's with the manual yaris. people getting mid-upper 30's has to be driving a bit hard. i would have to try to get under 40.

[why?]

Originally Posted by jack black

You must be a very accomplished hypermiller.
Yaris real life MPG is mid to high 30's:
http://www.fuelly.com/car/toyota/yaris

On the other hand, Prius averages 47 MPG in real life:
http://www.fuelly.com/car/toyota/prius

If you drove a Prius with your hypermilling skills, you would get 60 MPG easily.

I'm not even going to get to the argument that Yaris is subcompact while Prius is midsize.

No, he is not an idiot that pretends he is drag racing like most people. That is all it really takes in the Yaris.

And yes, the Prius barely fits into the midsize category only because they made it as open as possible. It is still on the smaller size of the midsize spectrum, and unless you do a ton of city driving and drive to get the best gas mileage, as you might do, it isn't worth it. But hey, you want to use the masses to judge fuel economy? Fine. fuelly gets 47. Which is absolutely pathetic. The last time I actually had to drive on a freeway, I did that in my Yaris.

Now let's actually be honest here. The Prius and the Yaris are cross shopped. The main reason to by both is because of gas mileage. I looked at both before I bought my Yaris in may of 2006. I, like many on here went with the Yaris because the extra gas mileage simply was not going to make up the price differential short of $8 a gallon gas. And since you like fuelly so much, here is mine.

I almost never do anything like freeway style driving to boost that number up, the closest I get is state highways with tons of lights, cars stopping to take turns, and the like. And unlike most hypermilers, I use my cruise as much as possible, I very rarely drive to endanger like they do, about the only thing I do is drive the actual posted speed limit, and not act like a dumb ass drag racer.

[jack black]

Originally Posted by why?

No, he is not an idiot that pretends he is drag racing like most people. That is all it really takes in the Yaris.

And yes, the Prius barely fits into the midsize category only because they made it as open as possible. It is still on the smaller size of the midsize spectrum, and unless you do a ton of city driving and drive to get the best gas mileage, as you might do, it isn't worth it. But hey, you want to use the masses to judge fuel economy? Fine. fuelly gets 47. Which is absolutely pathetic. The last time I actually had to drive on a freeway, I did that in my Yaris.

Now let's actually be honest here. The Prius and the Yaris are cross shopped. The main reason to by both is because of gas mileage. I looked at both before I bought my Yaris in may of 2006. I, like many on here went with the Yaris because the extra gas mileage simply was not going to make up the price differential short of $8 a gallon gas. And since you like fuelly so much, here is mine.

I almost never do anything like freeway style driving to boost that number up, the closest I get is state highways with tons of lights, cars stopping to take turns, and the like. And unlike most hypermilers, I use my cruise as much as possible, I very rarely drive to endanger like they do, about the only thing I do is drive the actual posted speed limit, and not act like a dumb ass drag racer.

Your post confirmed what I said before, people get mid to high 30's on average in Yaris.

Thanks for chiming in.

Look, I'm not anti Yaris. I bought one for my kid and think is a good and thrifty car for a single person.

But, saying that Yaris gets the same MPG as good hybrids is just a lie.

[roxy1]

Originally Posted by jack black

But, saying that Yaris gets the same MPG as good hybrids is just a lie.

saying it can come close on mostly highway driving is realistic. saying the prius, in mostly highway driving, isn't worth the cost has certainly been established.

if someone wants the prius for more room, nicer interior, quieter drive, etc...that's fine. if they want to argue its worth the extra cost for what they will save doing mostly highway driving, that doesn't hold much water.

even at 40 mpg's vs 46 mpg's (real world highway, which is a legit real world number for highway prius driving)and 15,000 miles per year and $4/gallon gas, the prius only saves $196 per year.

[jack black]

Originally Posted by roxy1

saying it can come close on mostly highway driving is realistic. saying the prius, in mostly highway driving, isn't worth the cost has certainly been established.

Here we go, we came back the full circle to the initial post that claimed that hwy (only) numbers of some small cars are close to what hybrids can deliver.

There is no disagreement here. My point is that most people live and drive in cities, and no car (even small) can touch hybrid city MPG. This is well reflected in the real life fuelly numbers.

So pointing out that you or someone can somehow (probably slow driving) get 50 mpg is useless. Look, I can get 70 mph in mu Prius if I drive it slow enough, but I have enough sense not to brag about it.

As to what's "worth" the cost and what's not, most people spend $30,000 on a new car in this country. They typically get a gas guzzler. Is it "worth" it? Apparently it is for them.

For full disclosure, I paid $21,000 for my prius when new in 2010 and very happy with the car. I owned 11 different cars so far (all imports, 4 Toyotas) and Prius is the best car (but not most expensive) I have ever had. Very "worth" to me.

If you really wanted to save some money on a car, you wouldn't buy Yaris either, you would buy a beater manual Saturn and they deliver 30-40 MPG. My friend recently bought a 2002 one with low miles (no oil burning) for only $1200 and he likes it a lot. Any Toyota of this age would be in the $5000 rage.

[roxy1]

Originally Posted by jack black

So pointing out that you or someone can somehow (probably slow driving) get 50 mpg is useless. Look, I can get 70 mph in mu Prius if I drive it slow enough, but I have enough sense not to brag about it.

.

i know my entire trip (and all my work commuting) is done with the flow of traffic. the lifetime average of my yaris is 43.2 mpg.

let me know when you see someone on here bragging about driving like granny and getting 50 mpg in their yaris.

[roxy1]

Originally Posted by why?

No, he is not an idiot that pretends he is drag racing like most people. That is all it really takes in the Yaris.

.

^this. I literally did nothing but avoiding gunning away from stops/keeping it gassed til im 20 feet from stops. the rest was going with the flow of traffic. that is it.

fuelly results aren't useful unless you look deeper into the numbers. looking at peoples numbers who are recording primarily highway, you will see plenty of low-mid 40's. likewise, many of those mid and upper 30's involve a higher percentage of city driving. the results are from all over the place, including places in Europe where they don't have much chance to do the kind of highway driving we do here. there is also a trend of the manual transmissions beating epa estimates more handily than the auto.



you want to see "real world" 5 speed yaris numbers from this country, here you go. from fueleconomy.gov.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Power...is&srchtyp=ymm

you can see the mpg in bold. the last two numbers before the date are city and highway percentage. it is clear that plenty of people driving a higher percentage of highway are doing better than mid to upper 30's. it is consistent with what I regularly achieve by just driving reasonable. looks to me that highway numbers are a lot better than mid to upper 30's, n'est–ce pas?.....more like upper 30's to low 40's. I can confirm than one not need be a hypermiler to get these numbers.

1 50.2 OR 10 90 04/14/2008
2 47.5 OR 10 90 06/06/2011
3 44.3 WV 0 0 07/15/2009
4 44.2 IL 10 90 10/21/2008
5 43.8 UT 31 69 07/26/2008
6 43.4 ME 20 80 05/29/2008
7 43.3 NH 15 85 06/12/2008
8 43.0 NH 10 90 10/10/2012
9 42.5 NC 20 80 09/23/2008
10 41.5 OH 40 60 07/16/2008
11 41.3 GA 80 20 07/30/2009
12 41.1 CA 20 80 07/20/2008
13 41.0 OH 30 70 07/30/2008
14 41.0 TX 20 80 12/05/2012
15 41.0 MT 46 54 02/13/2009
16 40.7 UT 30 70 05/27/2008
17 40.2 NY 47 53 06/18/2009
18 40.0 FL 40 60 09/05/2008
19 39.9 UT 37 63 11/11/2008
20 39.8 FL 37 63 07/26/2009
21 39.3 CA 30 70 10/19/2008
22 39.3 CA 18 83 04/06/2008
23 39.2 PA 70 30 05/08/2008
24 39.2 CA 70 30 06/28/2008
25 39.0 NC 20 80 10/04/2008
26 38.8 NY 20 80 11/17/2009
27 38.6 IL 40 60 11/12/2007
28 38.5 NC 55 45 01/28/2008
29 38.4 WA 46 54 01/02/2014
30 38.4 CT 37 63 07/11/2008
31 38.3 WI 31 69 02/26/2010
32 37.2 WA 33 67 12/12/2007
33 37.0 IL 30 70 05/03/2008
34 37.0 SC 20 80 05/31/2008
35 36.6 IN 50 50 04/17/2008
36 36.6 40 60 08/13/2008
37 36.2 CA 20 80 06/03/2008
38 36.2 CA 61 39 03/30/2009
39 35.0 MN 50 50 01/30/2008
40 34.0 IL 60 40 08/03/2009
41 32.1 CA 90 10 08/14/2008
42 31.9 CA 50 50 10/16/2009
43 24.9 CT 90 10 01/02/2008

[UberSilver]

While your sooooo happy with the prius, lets not forget the extra 1/2 ton of toxic waste the earth needs to deal with, when I prius is wrecked.

This is something very few(if any)Prius owners every deal with or think about.

The Prius is loaded with toxic waste! And Prius owners are helping to pollute our planet, Just so they can feel warm and fuzzy about using less gasoline.

Originally Posted by jack black

You must be a very accomplished hypermiller.
Yaris real life MPG is mid to high 30's:
http://www.fuelly.com/car/toyota/yaris

On the other hand, Prius averages 47 MPG in real life:
http://www.fuelly.com/car/toyota/prius

If you drove a Prius with your hypermilling skills, you would get 60 MPG easily.

I'm not even going to get to the argument that Yaris is subcompact while Prius is midsize.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by UberSilver

While your sooooo happy with the prius, lets not forget the extra 1/2 ton of toxic waste the earth needs to deal with, when I prius is wrecked.

This is something very few(if any)Prius owners every deal with or think about.

The Prius is loaded with toxic waste! And Prius owners are helping to pollute our planet, Just so they can feel warm and fuzzy about using less gasoline.

.....including the elephant in the room --- replacing the hybrid battery. A lady called into the nationally syndicated Car Pro radio show this last weekend wondering if she should trade in her Prius. Jerry said that dealers, when looking at the value of a Prius trade in, peg the life of the hybrid battery at about 150,000-160,000 miles in most climates (shaving a bit off that range if the car has 'lived' in extreme heat or extreme cold). He said that the replacement cost has been coming down, but that the current replacement cost is about $4,000 (sometimes a bit less).

[UberSilver]

Thats about 7 years with my 23k per year driving. I'd be pissed if the dealer told me, at the 7~8 year mark, $4000. please!

Originally Posted by nookandcrannycar

.....including the elephant in the room --- replacing the hybrid battery. A lady called into the nationally syndicated Car Pro radio show this last weekend wondering if she should trade in her Prius. Jerry said that dealers, when looking at the value of a Prius trade in, peg the life of the hybrid battery at about 150,000-160,000 miles in most climates (shaving a bit off that range if the car has 'lived' in extreme heat or extreme cold). He said that the replacement cost has been coming down, but that the current replacement cost is about $4,000 (sometimes a bit less).

[jack black]

Originally Posted by nookandcrannycar

.....including the elephant in the room --- replacing the hybrid battery. A lady called into the nationally syndicated Car Pro radio show this last weekend wondering if she should trade in her Prius. Jerry said that dealers, when looking at the value of a Prius trade in, peg the life of the hybrid battery at about 150,000-160,000 miles in most climates (shaving a bit off that range if the car has 'lived' in extreme heat or extreme cold). He said that the replacement cost has been coming down, but that the current replacement cost is about $4,000 (sometimes a bit less).

Anyone with decent skill can rebuild the HV battery at the cost ranging $50-500. This is less than having a major service at stealership on a regular car.

Yes, if you know nothing about cars and electricity and ask a stealership to do it, the sticker shock will be predictable. Same as any major failure in any regular car.

But, I'm wasting my time here as this is obviously Yaris boy fan club and personally having both yaris and prius makes me too objective to participate in hybrid hate.

[UberSilver]

Originally Posted by jack black

Anyone with decent skill can rebuild the HV battery at the cost ranging $50-500. This is less than having a major service at stealership on a regular car.

Yes, if you know nothing about cars and electricity and ask a stealership to do it, the sticker shock will be predictable. Same as any major failure in any regular car.

But, I'm wasting my time here as this is obviously Yaris boy fan club and personally having both yaris and prius makes me too objective to participate in hybrid hate.

No Hybrid hate here, in fact no hate at all! I just believe that the Prius is not cleaner than a Yaris. And I find it funny when I hear a smug Prius owners, claiming they are helping the planet by driving a Prius, when it just the opposite.

I find these people to be ignorant emotional consumers, thats all, no hate.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by jack black

Anyone with decent skill can rebuild the HV battery at the cost ranging $50-500. This is less than having a major service at stealership on a regular car.

Yes, if you know nothing about cars and electricity and ask a stealership to do it, the sticker shock will be predictable. Same as any major failure in any regular car.

How many Prius owners both have these skills and are willing to set aside the time to do the rebuild? I'm guessing, not many.

[jack black]

Originally Posted by UberSilver

While your sooooo happy with the prius, lets not forget the extra 1/2 ton of toxic waste the earth needs to deal with, when I prius is wrecked.

You clearly don't know what you're talking about and recycle oil companies lies/propaganda that Hummer is more environmentally friendly than Prius.
In the unlikely event you know what you're talking about, please explain what is "the 1/2 ton of toxic waste the earth needs to deal with, when I prius is wrecked."

[UberSilver]

#1. Lots of rare earth metals! Rare earths occur naturally with the radioactive elements thorium and uranium, which, if not stored securely, can leach into groundwater or escape into the air as dust. The refining process requires huge amounts of harsh acids, which also have to be disposed of safely.

Production of the Prius is described as "the biggest user of rare earths of any object in the world.

#2. Production of the batteries and disposal of the batteries has a huge impact on our environment. Just because it's all done in third world areas, does not make it any less toxic to the planet.

What Prius owner don't get, is nothing is free! The gasoline engine is very efficient and clean. The Prius is less efficient once you add the toxic waste, and cost to the planet(not the prius owner). Prius owners are as guilty of poisoning our planet, as any of the chemical companies that dump there waste.
The Prius owners may not be tipping the toxic barrel, but they are in the toxic waste chain(imo).

Folks that run out and buy a Prius, are ignorant emotional consumers.

If they were informed with a logical thought process, they would not buy a Prius.

Originally Posted by jack black

You clearly don't know what you're talking about and recycle oil companies lies/propaganda that Hummer is more environmentally friendly than Prius.
In the unlikely event you know what you're talking about, please explain what is "the 1/2 ton of toxic waste the earth needs to deal with, when I prius is wrecked."

[jack black]

Originally Posted by UberSilver

#1. Lots of rare earth metals! Rare earths occur naturally with the radioactive elements thorium and uranium, which, if not stored securely, can leach into groundwater or escape into the air as dust. The refining process requires huge amounts of harsh acids, which also have to be disposed of safely.

Production of the Prius is described as "the biggest user of rare earths of any object in the world.

#2. Production of the batteries and disposal of the batteries has a huge impact on our environment. Just because it's all done in third world areas, does not make it any less toxic to the planet.

What Prius owner don't get, is nothing is free! The gasoline engine is very efficient and clean. The Prius is less efficient once you add the toxic waste, and cost to the planet(not the prius owner). Prius owners are as guilty of poisoning our planet, as any of the chemical companies that dump there waste.
The Prius owners may not be tipping the toxic barrel, but they are in the toxic waste chain(imo).

Folks that run out and buy a Prius, are ignorant emotional consumers.

If they were informed with a logical thought process, they would not buy a Prius.

Myth #1. "rare elements" are not rare. They are among the most common elements in the earth, they are just scattered. They have nothing to do with radioactive elements either. Here is more info for you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare_earth_element

Use of "rare elements" in Prius is in form of electric motor magnets.
The same magnets are used in hard drives, fridge magnets, and thousand of other things you use everyday. Maybe you are one of those "ignorant emotional consumers" who don't know about it?

Myth #2. Prius HV batteries are produced and recycled in Japan. Last time I checked it was first world country. Your sources are clearly lies. Toyota ships used batteries back to Japan: http://tms.ccar-greenlink.org/HV%20B...y_Program.html

By the way, there are the same NiMH batteries that you use or used to use in toys and other electronic equipment everyday. "ignorant emotional consumers" again?

You are clearly drinking too much oil companies coolaid. How come you are not concerned about them poisoning environment by fracking.

I know, I know, it has to do with hypocrisy.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by jack black

poisoning environment by fracking.

Obama's EPA would LOVE to shut down fracking. They haven't done it because they need proper evidence....which they HAVEN'T found.