Sound-speaker guru needed!

[David C]

You can buy what is called powered subwoofer. It's basically an amp+sub combo in the same casing. That way you don't need a separate amp. That's why they're called powered subwoofer. You must feed it power from your battery, and audio signal either from your speakers or from a pre-amp rca out of your head unit, both will work. For a unit like mine , that's 300w RMS (300W/12V=50A), 8AWG copper cable is plenty, on a 20A fuse.

The stock wiring isn't big enough to really output a good amount of power to a low range component speaker, so even if you'd get good quality low range component speaker, you won't get the bass to hit hard and clean when you turn up the volume. Save your money for good mid-range door speakers later on.



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[miiser]

Originally Posted by David C

You can buy what is called powered subwoofer. It's basically an amp+sub combo in the same casing. That way you don't need a separate amp. That's why they're called powered subwoofer. You must feed it power from your battery, and audio signal either from your speakers or from a pre-amp rca out of your head unit, both will work. For a unit like mine , that's 300w RMS (300W/12V=50A), 8AWG copper cable is plenty, on a 20A fuse.

The stock wiring isn't big enough to really output a good amount of power to a low range component speaker, so even if you'd get good quality low range component speaker, you won't get the bass to hit hard and clean when you turn up the volume. Save your money for good mid-range door speakers later on.



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Well that's interesting.
But it's expensive if you compare it with the component speakers. But I don't need a bam bam bam bass. I don't want to make a sound system that my neighbors will hear me from a mile distance. I just want a descent sound. A descent bass with a descent clear sound.
I have clear sound and I am missing a little bass. So in your opinion components are a waste of money for what I am looking for?

*see my post under this too


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[David C]

Originally Posted by miiser

Well that's interesting.
But it's expensive if you compare it with the component speakers. But I don't need a bam bam bam bass. I don't want to make a sound system that my neighbors will hear me from a mile distance. I just want a descent sound. A descent bass with a descent clear sound.
I have clear sound and I am missing a little bass. So in your opinion components are a waste of money for what I am looking for?

*see my post under this too


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The Yaris is a small car, so with a clever sub install, you can get your seat pulsing good without anyone outside the car noticing. What I'm saying is by having a separate sub, you can really crank up or down the bass without having to crank up or down the other speakers/levels. As I mentioned, my car can be boomy as fuck with only a small 8" sub using a 300w built-in amp right behind the driver seat under a deck that also acts as a big resonance box, without disturbing people walking by. To get that level of bass from door speakers (probably 6" with small wiring) that have very little resonance structure around them to pulse the air properly, you'd have to crank the volume so high you'd be a very annoying driver. We're talking $100 here, which isn't a lot for an easy and quick solution to your audio setup.

By replacing your door speakers with low range speakers will take away that clear sound you currently have, since you won't have enough mid-range speakers anymore. The tweeter I installed in my car are located similar to yours, and by using the supplied crossovers and connecting them on a -8bd output of the crossover and wired to the rear speakers, I was able to fade the signal to the front speakers to F4 (out of R15 to F15, 0 being both equal) so they wouldn't shout more than my less powerful 6" front door speakers. Then using a small sub to handle the lower than 150hz range, I was able to get the most out of my stock door speakers by only sending them frequencies over 120hz and the highs that the door wouldn't reach were given by the tweeters. Now I don't have to crank anything up to hear all the details, and when I crank it up, it still stay nice and balanced.

I doesn't hurt to get better door speakers, but since the door isn't anywhere close to a decent speaker enclosure, you'll never get the full quality they can output. That's kind of a waste of money IMO. Plus the small wiring that goes to the doors won't help either. I'd leave the door speakers to handle the mid range for now and complete the low with a small sub. Then when you'll do the door sound proofing, that will be a good moment to do what ever upgrades to the door speakers if you still feel like they aren't good enough for you.


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[tarkus]

Originally Posted by David C

I doesn't hurt to get better door speakers, but since the door isn't anywhere close to a decent speaker enclosure, you'll never get the full quality they can output. That's kind of a waste of money IMO. Plus the small wiring that goes to the doors won't help either.

I'm sorry, but I really have to disagree on this point. I changed the door speakers in my 2nd gen Yaris 3 door hatchback to a pair of Clarion coaxial 2-way speakers and the sound now really kicks ass. Some of the best money I spent on this car. Certainly not perfect sound, but really good all the same, with strong bass. I rarely turn the bass up on the radio more than 1 or 2, or it can actually get too much.

Now before you think I'm a crazy fool, I would point out that I'm an electronics engineer with a good few years of experience in professional audio. So I completely understand the merits of the approach you're recommending, and agree it will ultimately provide some excellent sound.

However, as well as being an engineer, I'm a cheapskate :-) So just changing the door speakers was my own low budget approach. I think both approaches have their merits, depending on how monry you want to spend.




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[David C]

Originally Posted by tarkus

I'm sorry, but I really have to disagree on this point. I changed the door speakers in my 2nd gen Yaris 3 door hatchback to a pair of Clarion coaxial 2-way speakers and the sound now really kicks ass. Some of the best money I spent on this car. Certainly not perfect sound, but really good all the same, with strong bass. I rarely turn the bass up on the radio more than 1 or 2, or it can actually get too much.

Now before you think I'm a crazy fool, I would point out that I'm an electronics engineer with a good few years of experience in professional audio. So I completely understand the merits of the approach you're recommending, and agree it will ultimately provide some excellent sound.

However, as well as being an engineer, I'm a cheapskate :-) So just changing the door speakers was my own low budget approach. I think both approaches have their merits, depending on how monry you want to spend.




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I'm not an audio engineer, so I won't try to argue on your speciality. I agree with you that you can only get better sound by using better speakers, that's a fact.

As you pointed, if your end goal isn't to reach a nice and deep sound experience inside your car (boomy and clear, without going crazy expensive or comp level), then swapping two of the 4 doors speakers with mid bass ones and wiring them in parallel with the front speakers to help drive them to a better output level (if desired/needed) and using the front door speakers as mid range, and tweeter up front, then properly tweaking the signal sent to each speaker by using the head unit settings and physical crossovers could get you a nice sound for cheap. However you may not be able to recreate that level of sound clarity when you start driving on the free way due to road noise and poorly sound proofing of the Yaris. Even with my setup you can start loosing some of the end of both high and low range with you drive past 100km/h. That's why sound proofing would help a lot too.

Did you upgraded the door speaker wiring when you changed the speakers ?

[miiser]

Originally Posted by David C

I'm not an audio engineer, so I won't try to argue on your speciality. I agree with you that you can only get better sound by using better speakers, that's a fact.

As you pointed, if your end goal isn't to reach a nice and deep sound experience inside your car (boomy and clear, without going crazy expensive or comp level), then swapping two of the 4 doors speakers with mid bass ones and wiring them in parallel with the front speakers to help drive them to a better output level (if desired/needed) and using the front door speakers as mid range, and tweeter up front, then properly tweaking the signal sent to each speaker by using the head unit settings and physical crossovers could get you a nice sound for cheap. However you may not be able to recreate that level of sound clarity when you start driving on the free way due to road noise and poorly sound proofing of the Yaris. Even with my setup you can start loosing some of the end of both high and low range with you drive past 100km/h. That's why sound proofing would help a lot too.

Did you upgraded the door speaker wiring when you changed the speakers ?

No I didn't. I only changed the adapters to fit my new speakers. Should I change them? Will I have better results ? And how do I do that?
That what I thought about it too. I thought of putting the front new speakers to the rear and in the from I can pick a pair of components and place them there.
And then I will have to do smth with the soundproof. The noico sheets I found might do the work.
Also, is there any different between component speaker and the bass speakers? Or they are the same?


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[tarkus]

Originally Posted by David C

I'm not an audio engineer, so I won't try to argue on your speciality. I agree with you that you can only get better sound by using better speakers, that's a fact.

As you pointed, if your end goal isn't to reach a nice and deep sound experience inside your car (boomy and clear, without going crazy expensive or comp level), then swapping two of the 4 doors speakers with mid bass ones and wiring them in parallel with the front speakers to help drive them to a better output level (if desired/needed) and using the front door speakers as mid range, and tweeter up front, then properly tweaking the signal sent to each speaker by using the head unit settings and physical crossovers could get you a nice sound for cheap. However you may not be able to recreate that level of sound clarity when you start driving on the free way due to road noise and poorly sound proofing of the Yaris. Even with my setup you can start loosing some of the end of both high and low range with you drive past 100km/h. That's why sound proofing would help a lot too.

Did you upgraded the door speaker wiring when you changed the speakers ?

Your recommended approach is certainly the better one overall, it's just a matter of how much you want to spend.

FYI in my 2nd gen Yaris I don't have any other front speakers apart from the two in the doors. So this is a somewhat different situation from the OP's car. I get lots of bass, and generally have to keep the bass control fairly low on the head unit. IMO having tweeters on the dashboard would improve top end presence that bit more. Having them project toward my knees, the way they are right now, isn't really ideal.

I haven't upgraded the stock Toyota speaker wires, as IMO that's quite unnecessary in this application. However, for my 100W RMS/channel home system, I use some huge fat speaker wires. :-)




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[miiser]

Originally Posted by tarkus

Your recommended approach is certainly the better one overall, it's just a matter of how much you want to spend.

FYI in my 2nd gen Yaris I don't have any other front speakers apart from the two in the doors. So this is a somewhat different situation from the OP's car. I get lots of bass, and generally have to keep the bass control fairly low on the head unit. IMO having tweeters on the dashboard would improve top end presence that bit more. Having them project toward my knees, the way they are right now, isn't really ideal.

I haven't upgraded the stock Toyota speaker wires, as IMO that's quite unnecessary in this application. However, for my 100W RMS/channel home system, I use some huge fat speaker wires. :-)




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What speakers do you have? I mean the exact model if you remember it.
Your situation is different than mine. In your case you have 4 speakers on the front. Coaxials count as 2 each, cause they have build in tweeters in the middle of the speaker. So you have 2 mid bass (the speaker itself) and 2 highs (tweeters).
In my case I have 6 speakers in the front now. And 4 of them are tweeters (2 pillar tweeters and 2 on the speaker) and this eliminates all my bass. Tbo after a week of using them I really think they sound better that the beginning. Maybe I got used to it, but maybe when speakers are new they need some time to produce the proper sound.
Anyway, I don't believe that my speakers are bad. I searched for them before I bought them. And they had very good reviews.
I just need something to spice the sound even more. Guess I should have bought component speakers from the begging, but I am a newbie on the sound industry, so i am just learning and making my first steps. Plus I bought these cause they came up with adapters too, wirings etc, in a very good price.



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[miiser]

Originally Posted by David C

However you may not be able to recreate that level of sound clarity when you start driving on the free way due to road noise and poorly sound proofing of the Yaris. Even with my setup you can start loosing some of the end of both high and low range with you drive past 100km/h. That's why sound proofing would help a lot too.

I am really aware of the baaad stock soundproof. It was that hard for Toyota to do something better with the soundproof thing.. they just placed a soft tiny sheet of plastic and they just hoped for the best. I mean it's not an Aygo that it is designed for cheap. Yaris isn't an expensive car but it's not cheap either. I paid 16.000€ to buy mine here in Greece (I am the only owner I bought it new, I guess it's the terra edition)
My other car is a 2004 corolla HB and it's day night difference in soundproof.
For god shake Yaris designers. Cheap plastics and zero effort to soundproof this thing.

Yaris starts from 11.000€. I get that they have to make a cheap soundproof to keep the price down in the standard edition. But on terra they really have to make something better. Even Luna owners have the same soundproof with the standard edition. And they pay like close double the price.
It was hard to put power windows on the rear in terra. It was hard to place a damn button to disengage ESP. I searched for how to disengage and it is a procedure that takes 10 minutes. It's a combination of handbrake, clutch and brake and it's for test perpose only. And your dashboard becomes Christmas tree with the warnings that pop up. It was hard to place wiring harness for rear speakers. It was hard to soundproof the car.
The only thing that makes me proud is the zero issues whatsoever and I have made about 106.000 miles with it. (I had an Alfa years ago. You can guess how happy I am with a problem free car now)
I really want to know if they did better on the newer Yaris.




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