The open political discussion thread. Read the first post!

[SailDesign]

Originally Posted by RedRide

His messaage is "I hate obama" without a single, constructive idea of his own .

Something like this?

[2+2]

Originally Posted by Bob Dog

Agreed: there was a time that things got so oppresive, that i wondered about saying anything critical about the government. I had vague images of homeland security wiretaps and closely watched web posts. Not my America at all.

Yup, I know that feeling. I almost hate to admit this but there was a brief moment when I pondered Cheney/Bush not relinquishing power. After the 2008 election, even though it was probably their worst nightmare come true (a black Democrat), I wasn't too worried. But a year or two before that, late 2006 and 2007, about the time everyone was talking about the possibility of our invading Iran, I had some evil thoughts about the likes of Cheney not being willing to hand the reins of power over to someone else.

I'd still put the odds at 10 to 1 against that some high ranked military official comes forward in a book and says that Cheney approached him about the idea. I'm saying just 10 to 1 against - just 10% more or less.

[Kal-El]

Originally Posted by RedRide

Beck is a constant, doumentented lier........ end of discussion!
You just like him because he simply tells you what you want to hear.

His message is "I hate obama" without a single, constructive idea of his own .

How about supporting your opinion with some examples of the "lies" that Glenn reports?

Your view of Beck is probably shaped by what MSNBC and Comedy Central commentators say about him.

How does all the supporting video and audio that Glenn plays become a "lie".

It's right there for us to see with our own eyes!!!

And as for "hating Obama"? No, he hates the policies of this whole administration for very good reason. He criticized Bush all the time too. Perhaps you missed that. He constantly reminds us that it isn't about party lines, but a whole government filled with corruption.

[RedRide]

..............After the 2008 election, even though it was probably their worst nightmare come true (a black Democrat)...........

You hit upon a very key point here: we now have a black president.

There are those who can not accept and own the fact that their party screwwd up this country and its taking a black man (actually bi racial) to fix it and put the country back on track.

The horror of all horrors to the Republican party is that we now have a very intelligent, honest black man who is actually acting presidential in sharp contrast to the dim witted dictator Bush Jr who routienely disreguarded the consitution and the American people.

So, they are pulling out all stops trying to bring his presidency down,
When hearing some of the absolutely rediculous things they are accusing Obama of, I have to wonder just what universe they reside in.
To them it dosen't matter in the least if the accusations are not true as their only mission is to distort reality and bring him down.

The fact they they make heros out of dishonest, complete buffoons like Glen Beck and Rush Limbaugh speaks volumes

[Kal-El]

Still waiting for examples of Beck's "lies"....

[Bob Dog]

Recontextualizing video clips and taking quotes out of context demonstrates nothing greater than skills in video editing. This is in truth the provence of pulp newspapers and entertainment television shows, not news. People of our grandparents genertions knew the old adage "Even the devil can quote scripture to prove his purposes."

[Kal-El]

Originally Posted by RedRide

You hit upon a very key point here: we now have a black president.

There are those who can not accept and own the fact that their party screwwd up this country and its taking a black man (actually bi racial) to fix it and put the country back on track.

The horror of all horrors to the Republican party is that we now have a very intelligent, honest black man who is actually acting presidential in sharp contrast to the dim witted dictator Bush Jr who routienely disreguarded the consitution and the American people.

So, they are pulling out all stops trying to bring his presidency down,
When hearing some of the absolutely rediculous things they are accusing Obama of, I have to wonder just what universe they reside in.
To them it dosen't matter in the least if the accusations are not true as their only mission is to distort reality and bring him down.

The fact they they make heros out of dishonest, complete buffoons like Glen Beck and Rush Limbaugh speaks volumes

Again, the race issue comes out. That's all liberals care about. Dividing us into dozens of groups.

Why can't we just be Americans?

Conservatives don't care that our President is [half] black. Liberals though, talk about it all day long.

It's disgraceful how liberals yell "racist!" whenever we speak out against a ridiculous liberal POLICY. Suddenly, because we have a black president, conservatives are suppose to become liberal. Yeah, OK.

[Kal-El]

Originally Posted by Bob Dog

Recontextualizing video clips and taking quotes out of context demonstrates nothing greater than skills in video editing. This is in truth the provence of pulp newspapers and entertainment television shows, not news. People of our grandparents genertions knew the old adage "Even the devil can quote scripture to prove his purposes."

You and others here clearly haven't seen the show. Otherwise, you'd see that things aren't taken out of context.

But even when just clips are shown, powerfully radical statements made by Obama and all of his appointees and friends can't be justified in a larger "context" anyway.

Liberals just don't want to see and believe it so they keep their eyes shut.

[RedRide]

Originally Posted by Kal-El

Again, the race issue comes out. That's all liberals care about. Dividing us into dozens of groups.

Why can't we just be Americans?

Conservatives don't care that our President is [half] black. Liberals though, talk about it all day long.

It's disgraceful how liberals yell "racist!" whenever we speak out against a ridiculous liberal POLICY. Suddenly, because we have a black president, conservatives are suppose to become liberal. Yeah, OK.

It is the radical consevatives who think that they are a superior spicies and more american than the rest of us. Their constant rhetoric to this effect betrays your words.

[Kal-El]

Originally Posted by RedRide

It is the radical consevatives who think that they are a superior spicies and more american than the rest of us. Their constant rhetoric to this effect betrays your words.

How can a conservative be a radical? We believe in the things that Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson believed and in preserving the unique foundation they laid that made America the envy of the world. If that's radicalism, then I just don't know what to say.

And if you feel that Conservatives have a superiority complex, you're mistaken.

It just seems that liberals have longed to transform America into something more reminiscent of other countries. They are not satisfied with the fundamental principals that America stands upon and I find that difficult to understand.

I don't see Americans sneaking in to live in other counties in droves but rather people from all over that strive to make it to America to fulfill that "dream". Why is it that the left wants to tear that down?

If you want fascism, socialism, communism, or whatever, why do you choose to live here? Seems strange. That last statement isn't meant to be offensive, just an obvious question as to why people that don't like the way America is stay here.

It doesn't need "fundamental change" as Obama promised.

[Darb]

Originally Posted by Kal-El

If you want fascism, socialism, communism, or whatever, why do you choose to live here? Seems strange. That last statement isn't meant to be offensive, just an obvious question as to why people that don't like the way America is stay here.

Because it's nearly impossible to get a decent job in western Europe if you are not a citizen.

[Bob Dog]

I am tired of narrow minded people such as you trying to hanging your foolish little categories on me. Somehow you must have a little box to put things in so that you do not have to give them thought or consideration: I am not a liberal. I vote with the liberals most all of the time, because of the Republicans wanton disregard for the constitution and their obvious favoritism of the interests of wealth over those of the individual, but I am only a little more fond of the imposition of the burdensome strictures of political correctness than I am of the primitive idiocy of right wing fundamentalism. I tried to have watch Beck, as I seek honest right of center opinions as an antidote to the excesses of the far left (I do hate the childish reductionism of these terms), but frankly his dogmatic ideology and utter disregard for all that is truly American make me actually and literally sick to my stomach. You may chose to put your self in the box labeled conservative, as many narrow minded persons who prefer categorization to analysis do, but my varied and free ranging opinions are too complex to put in the confining categories you would chose for them. If you would learn how to think for yourself I doubt you would have any more use for knee jerk ideologues such as Beck and their self serving manipulations than I do.

[Malaya1221]

"circular reasoning works because" saildesign, you are my hero!

[2+2]

Originally Posted by Kal-El

Again, the race issue comes out. That's all liberals care about. Dividing us into dozens of groups.

Why can't we just be Americans?

Conservatives don't care that our President is [half] black. Liberals though, talk about it all day long.

It's disgraceful how liberals yell "racist!" whenever we speak out against a ridiculous liberal POLICY. Suddenly, because we have a black president, conservatives are suppose to become liberal. Yeah, OK.

I'm the one that referred to the pres being black and I probably shouldn't have. Race is the elephant in the room in any political discussion and probably best not referred to by either side (especially in an online forum imo). If you're interested in some good reading though I found this by googling "republican southern strategy" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

Now if you'd like to talk about W and the Constitution I could have some fun with that.

[SailDesign]

Originally Posted by Kal-El

And if you feel that Conservatives have a superiority complex, you're mistaken.

Bwahahahahahahahahaha - Thanks! I needed a laugh this morning.

[RedRide]

Originally Posted by 2+2

I'm the one that referred to the pres being black and I probably shouldn't have. Race is the elephant in the room in any political discussion and probably best not referred to by either side (especially in an online forum imo). If you're interested in some good reading though I found this by googling "republican southern strategy" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

Now if you'd like to talk about W and the Constitution I could have some fun with that.

Any political dicussion in a public fourm such as this is going to be contoversial at best.
When discssiong Obama, race has to enter the conversation simply because it is a integeral part of the issue.

Personally, I have had quite a few co-workers, who I thought were not at all pregidious, slowly begin to relate to me that they absolutly did not like a black man as president and they would not support him no mater what.

Never in my 62 years have I seen an outpouring of such extreme hate for a president to the point of calling for a violent revoution because "it is no longer America as we knew it". In other words it is no longer the domain of white men. They are seriously outraged becase there is a black man in charge.

They are simply making things up about Obama becases they absolutly hate him. All this talk about spending etc and refusing to see the truth about anything is just a smoke screen for the real underlying issue: race!

The fact is, Bush Jr disreguarded the constitution, spent mony like a drunken sailor, didn't give crap about the middle class and constantly lied. Where were the protests then? I repete, where were the protests?!?!?

They continue to try to bring obama down becase of his race and when someone points out the obvious, they call them a racist? This is like calling someone a thief because they caught someone else stealing.

I fully expect to get flamed for this but It does not alter the truth.

[Kal-El]

Originally Posted by RedRide

Any political dicussion in a public fourm such as this is going to be contoversial at best.
When discssiong Obama, race has to enter the conversation simply because it is a integeral part of the issue.

Personally, I have had quite a few co-workers, who I thought were not at all pregidious, slowly begin to relate to me that they absolutly did not like a black man as president and they would not support him no mater what.

Never in my 62 years have I seen an outpouring of such extreme hate for a president to the point of calling for a violent revoution because "it is no longer America as we knew it". In other words it is no longer the domain of white men. They are seriously outraged becase there is a black man in charge.

They are simply making things up about Obama becases they absolutly hate him. All this talk about spending etc and refusing to see the truth about anything is just a smoke screen for the real underlying issue: race!

The fact is, Bush Jr disreguarded the constitution, spent mony like a drunken sailor, didn't give crap about the middle class and constantly lied. Where were the protests then? I repete, where were the protests?!?!?

They continue to try to bring obama down becase of his race and when someone points out the obvious, they call them a racist? This is like calling someone a thief because they caught someone else stealing.

I fully expect to get flamed for this but It does not alter the truth.

You're kidding right?

Why do you and others like you expect the right to just except uber-liberalism? We are expected to shut up, sit back, and see America transformed into a fascist state completely controlled by government.

Race has nothing to do with it. But that's all you guys talk about. That's racism.

Liberals can't look beyond the color of his skin to see what his ideologies are.
Shall I begin quoting Obama's own words as well as his endless list of radical associations own words?? Have you guys not listened?

As for Bush? Conservatives didn't like him either because he didn't share their conservative values either. Yet liberals hang on Bush as a defense argument.

Obama's half black! Woooohooooo!!!!!!!! Get over it people. He's our President.

[mo_feezy]

Originally Posted by Kal-El

Still waiting for examples of Beck's "lies"....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/matt-o..._b_277028.html

I do watch his show. Pretty much any time I am home when it is on. I don't watch it because it's good/intelligent/honest/informative. I watch it because it's very interesting to watch a delusional mad man slowly losing his sanity. Psychologists have a perfectly documented case study for years to come. This dude is losing it. If you have never seen his show, he cries on the air regularly. Dude is fucking nuts.