Ethanol - 15-20%?

[Zaphod]

I'm just looking for the day that algae grown bio-fuels become economically feasible.

Eventually the cost of oil will make everything competitive as demand increases.

[Yaris Hilton]

Yes, price drives competition.

[127.0.0.1]

Originally Posted by Zaphod

I'm just looking for the day that algae grown bio-fuels become economically feasible.

Eventually the cost of oil will make everything competitive as demand increases.

never will happen. requires too much surface area and time.


technology will solve the problem another way

[STC]

Not to play any political sides, Toyota Yaris car thread here...

But, this is the classic false left/right paradigm. They (US Presidents) are all the same. The problem is a crony corporatocracy... the symbiotic relationship between corporations and government. Our elected officials working with corporations in subsidizing corn to profit for big oil business and the government plutocracy while claiming ‘green’ and ‘eco-environmental’ safety to the masses. Sometimes it seems closer to a Kleptocracy...

It’s all a big lie. Presidents are only a ‘spokesman’ by design.

Cheers...

[RedRide]

Originally Posted by Yaris Hilton

It's not Obama's job to stop it. It's Congress's. If you think it should be stopped, you need to be pestering your representative and senators about it. Just like the Midwesterners who're profiting off of this corn ethanol business are pushing them to promote it further. Presidents don't make laws.

Exactly!

I grow weary hearing some mebers of congress crying that the federal government wont do this or that or inact this or that law.
They are the federal goverment!
It's like someone complaining that they are barefoot when they refuse to put on their own shoos.

[Hershey]

wouldn't a 15 > 20 % ethanol mix make for poorer mileage ? Especially in the winter . Wonder if there'd be an addtional loss of 2 > 4 miles to the gallon . How's that going to help the pockets of consumers . It's a no win situation . Darned if you do , damned if yeh don't .

[127.0.0.1]

Originally Posted by Hershey

wouldn't a 15 > 20 % ethanol mix make for poorer mileage ? Especially in the winter . Wonder if there'd be an addtional loss of 2 > 4 miles to the gallon . How's that going to help the pockets of consumers . It's a no win situation . Darned if you do , damned if yeh don't .

a lot poorer mileage

but the US corn producers will make mo' money.

[djct_watt]

Originally Posted by bronsin

Hmm I think Ill invent something to add to the gastank which removes the ethanol. Thataway we could get better mpg. MAybe add a tank which catches the ethanol so we can sell it back to Obama for $$$. He'll know what to do with it!

I'm not sure if removing the ethanol will boost mpg, but it would destroy your engine with engine knock/ping. The ethanol is there to control the octane of your fuel. I know you were joking, but if you were really to remove the ethanol, you would need to add some sort of oxidizer to replace it.

Here's some more info about ethanol vs MTBE as an oxidizer
http://www.seco.cpa.state.tx.us/re_ethanol_mtbe.htm

[Zaphod]

Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1

never will happen. requires too much surface area and time.


technology will solve the problem another way

Wait until oil demand reaches it's peak in China alone.

[Yaris Hilton]

Ethanol in gasoline both reduces miles per gallon, because it contains less energy per gallon than gasoline, AND raises octane. By the cockamamie system we use in the U.S. to post octane numbers on the gas pump, (Research Octane Number + Motor Octane Number)/2, blending 10% ethanol by volume raises the octane number by approximately 2-3 over the base gasoline's value. Not a huge boost, but noticeable.

In many other countries the Research Octane Number is posted. That's obtained in a special variable compression low speed engine breathing cool air. The Motor Octane Number is measured using a higher intake air and coolant temperature, with the engine running at a higher speed, and is more representative of conditions in a car engine. It's a good bit lower than the Research Octane Number, and the spread between them is a rather variable number called the fuel's "sensitivity."

[UTVitz]

Mechanics in my area say there really is no problem with using the current mix of ethanol which is up to 10%. So far, only Chevron is adding it and have placed a sticker on their pumps indicating such. Phillips/Conoco told me they have no current plans to add this to their fuel. So I'm still not sure if this will be federally mandated at some point or not. All I know is I am currently going to only Phillips to get a top tier fuel. I had a terribly destructive experience with MTBE many years ago, which Chevron only paid for the repairs after the Toyota dealer said we've got the fuel out of the vehicle and it's the cause of all the fuel system damage. Finger crossed ethanol stays out of our fuel for the most part

[talnlnky]

Originally Posted by Yaris Hilton

That "50% engine damage" claim is unsupported and unsupportable. The EPA has run tests that found no problems with E20 in cars built since 2000. Toyota at this time only recommends 10%, but I anticipate no problems with a Yaris.

A bit over a year ago I read either here, on Toyota World or on CleanMPG, I forget which, someone's post about experimenting with blends of the standard E10 and E85 to see where the Yaris' ECU ran into mixture control problems due to the leaning effect of added ethanol. He started seeing check engine lights near 50% ethanol.

I remember reading that one too.

[talnlnky]

Originally Posted by UTVitz

Mechanics in my area say there really is no problem with using the current mix of ethanol which is up to 10%. So far, only Chevron is adding it and have placed a sticker on their pumps indicating such. Phillips/Conoco told me they have no current plans to add this to their fuel. So I'm still not sure if this will be federally mandated at some point or not. All I know is I am currently going to only Phillips to get a top tier fuel. I had a terribly destructive experience with MTBE many years ago, which Chevron only paid for the repairs after the Toyota dealer said we've got the fuel out of the vehicle and it's the cause of all the fuel system damage. Finger crossed ethanol stays out of our fuel for the most part

E10 additive is state mandated in oregon.... been living here for 2 years... no problems, and I occasionally got 10% when I live in WA... so.. i'd guess that 80-90% of my tanks of gas over the past 2.5years have been with E10. No issues, Things may be much different than they were when you had your bad experience. I run Chevron or Shell about 95% of the time, so I don't think its a Chevron problem either.

One thing I noticed... Before Oregon did E10, they had much higher gas prices than Washington. After E10.... they have similar, or cheaper prices (despite the fact they have to pay a person to pump gas for the customer...its a law). Eth content seems to drop the cost, and I suspect the drop in cost might actually be bigger than the drop in performance in real world results.

[Hershey]

Originally Posted by Zaphod

Wait until oil demand reaches it's peak in China alone.

large vehicles are a hot commodity in CHINA . More need for roads . The race is on .

[Split]

the only problem i see for ethanol is tuner guys with injector duty cycles that are already maxed out.. a WRX guys for example with a cobb tune are already nearing 100% duty cycle with their injectors.. now having to inject another 5% more to run E20 might mean you could lean out or the injectors could fail.

[devinlamothe]

You can't really find 10% around here any more, it's all 15% or higher. If the station has a higher price you can usually find 10%, though.

[bronsin]

Sudbury....I went through there on my motorcycle 10 years ago. I noticed distorted rocks on a cliff and found out later you were hit by a giant meteor eons ago.

[devinlamothe]

Originally Posted by bronsin

Sudbury....I went through there on my motorcycle 10 years ago. I noticed distorted rocks on a cliff and found out later you were hit by a giant meteor eons ago.

That is correct, our entire city is in a giant meteor crater. :)